Can You Be Christian And Straight Edge?

**straightXed** · 05-25-2009, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by lo0m

heh, i won't go much into detail.. i will also throw off the facts like when, why, and by whom were compiled Scriptures as we know then today.. but I surely recommend everyone who says he believes in Jesus (as a God) to find those information..

On topic - I don't see any reason why christian can't be straight edge (or vegan as there were claims in different thread I believe)...
sxe - Jesus drank wine? yes, that may be truth.. and what? is there any fuckin christian on this planet that can claim that he's doing WWJD? no, there is NONE.. and never was.. just think.. you have this "man".. but he's no man, he is God.. he knows everything, yet his knowledge is limited.. he is allpowerful, yet he has to ask in prayer to HIMSELF "why have you forsaken me?".. and there everything just falls apart.. if i should do what Jesus did according to this Roman Empire conspiracy called The Bible and if the last day will come and God will ask me "But why didn't you follow Jesus?" I can say with my head held high: "Because I have had no chance to do so and I had no chance to believe the Bible with the brain you gave me.."...
vegan - can be of course a christian... a christian trying to caught the glimpse of the Eden, where human beings were vegan... or from the stance of LOVE... according to 1 Cor 13:13:
" But now remains
faith, hope, love,
these three;
but the greatest of these is love. "
btw. that's one of the messages that New Testament really carries for me.. the word of love and compassion...

So you are saying you think the actions of jesus were wrong, or are you saying you think drinking is right?

**lo0m** · 05-26-2009, 01:46 AM

i'm saying that comparing YOUR(or someone others) actions with someone who:

a) is God
b) was propably very different in person than in the Bible
or
c) maybe was a prophet but everything written about him is corrupted by man

is RIDICULOUS.. btw - i don't think that Jesus was drinking as I see drinking as bad choice..

**xsecx** · 05-26-2009, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by lo0m

i'm saying that comparing YOUR(or someone others) actions with someone who:

a) is God
b) was propably very different in person than in the Bible
or
c) maybe was a prophet but everything written about him is corrupted by man

is RIDICULOUS.. btw - i don't think that Jesus was drinking as I see drinking as bad choice..

so if you don't believe the words in the bible, what exactly are you basing your knowledge of who jesus was and what he was about on?

**lo0m** · 05-26-2009, 02:47 AM

ok, i didn't wanted to go into this, as I'm sure that my English is not on the level I could fully reason, but well... I don't believe the Bible, I do believe in Jesus as a human, maybe a prophet.. Bible is not the only scripture that teaches about Jesus, you know.. I once believed in the Bible until I learned how, by whom and finally WHEN it was written... i have read it many times and once you see the contadictions you can find yourself finding truth like astrophysician is finding truth about black holes.. even with negative info (info that can't be fully trusted) you can study Jesus.. it also has slight glimpse of J.R.R.Tolkien's view on christianity as a "real myth"... you can study myth, even if you don't believe it, can't you?

**xsecx** · 05-26-2009, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by lo0m

ok, i didn't wanted to go into this, as I'm sure that my English is not on the level I could fully reason, but well... I don't believe the Bible, I do believe in Jesus as a human, maybe a prophet.. Bible is not the only scripture that teaches about Jesus, you know.. I once believed in the Bible until I learned how, by whom and finally WHEN it was written... i have read it many times and once you see the contadictions you can find yourself finding truth like astrophysician is finding truth about black holes.. even with negative info (info that can't be fully trusted) you can study Jesus.. it also has slight glimpse of J.R.R.Tolkien's view on christianity as a "real myth"... you can study myth, even if you don't believe it, can't you?

if you don't believe the bible then how can you talk about Jesus as a god or even a prophet? All of the writings about jesus came far after the actual events so why would you believe any of it if you don't trust the bible?

**lo0m** · 05-26-2009, 05:59 AM

that's easy logic, isn't it?

if i don't believe the Bible then why I can't talk about Jesus as God? there's a possibility.. He CAN be.. I DON'T know..so why I should abandon this possibility...

ok.. there's only one other teaching regarding Jesus that says it's revealed by God of Abraham and was revealed after Jesus' death. And that is Quran. It surely was written roughly 6 centuries after Jesus walked the Earth, but, unlike the Bible, it has remained UNCHANGED to this day. So now, we have two scriptures.

Bible - segmented, written by many men, changed by many men. compiling based on politics and personal beliefs. contains infos that are in direct contradiction with our today's scientifical abundance.

Quran - written by one man through cca 23 yrs (not sure), does not contradict itself, is much more logical, contains info that writer propably could not have known and which does not contradict today's science.

hey, I guess that now it's only matter if you DO or DON'T believe The Source - if you believe in God and if you believe particular scripture was revealed by him or not.. I've left this questions opened...

**SgtD** · 05-26-2009, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by lo0m

that's easy logic, isn't it?

if i don't believe the Bible then why I can't talk about Jesus as God? there's a possibility.. He CAN be.. I DON'T know..so why I should abandon this possibility...

ok.. there's only one other teaching regarding Jesus that says it's revealed by God of Abraham and was revealed after Jesus' death. And that is Quran. It surely was written roughly 6 centuries after Jesus walked the Earth, but, unlike the Bible, it has remained UNCHANGED to this day. So now, we have two scriptures.

Bible - segmented, written by many men, changed by many men. compiling based on politics and personal beliefs. contains infos that are in direct contradiction with our today's scientifical abundance.

Quran - written by one man through cca 23 yrs (not sure), does not contradict itself, is much more logical, contains info that writer propably could not have known and which does not contradict today's science.

hey, I guess that now it's only matter if you DO or DON'T believe The Source - if you believe in God and if you believe particular scripture was revealed by him or not.. I've left this questions opened...

i can't believe this thread is 56 pages now.
Please read the thread from the beginning, after a couple of pages you'll have your answers. Then, it all will repeat itself, with the same questions, same flawed logic, and same points/views proven wrong.

Face it: if you're christian, you can't be sxe. Thank you.

**lo0m** · 05-26-2009, 07:23 AM

if YOU would read at least MY posts, you would already know that i am not a christian.. and, that would be a bonus, you would know that the post you've quoted is little offtopic and does not say a word about sxe..

**SgtD** · 05-26-2009, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by lo0m

if YOU would read at least MY posts, you would already know that i am not a christian.. and, that would be a bonus, you would know that the post you've quoted is little offtopic and does not say a word about sxe..

i DID read your post, and i realize what it was about, plus I've never said you were christian. (note: IF)
and yeah, you should just start reading the thread from teh beginning.

**lo0m** · 05-26-2009, 08:31 AM

so, you realize that i'm not talking about sxe but Abrahamic religions in general. You also realize that didn't ask any question regarding this post yet you want me to read the post i've spend last week reading? huh

and " if you're christian, you can't be sxe. " cannot be simply said.. at least, because "christian" is fucking broad description.. from ultracatolics that meet with fascism to the most liberal, which sometimes claim edge.. face it, there are more viewpoints and you're not the one to tell someone how to interpret his own religion. there are christians that believe that wine is important part of sermon, yet there are others, that view their body as a temple and drugs of any kind as poison. add the aspects of possibility ( eg.that Jesus may NEVER drank wine) I've been talking before and you have very interesting equation (and we STILL didn't touch the neverending debate about translation of Bible which would add even more possibilities). I'm not trying to be rude, but you have no right to generalize someone's believes nor judge him according to your own perception of reality..

**SgtD** · 05-26-2009, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by lo0m

so, you realize that i'm not talking about sxe but Abrahamic religions in general. You also realize that didn't ask any question regarding this post yet you want me to read the post i've spend last week reading? huh

and " if you're christian, you can't be sxe. " cannot be simply said.. at least, because "christian" is fucking broad description.. from ultracatolics that meet with fascism to the most liberal, which sometimes claim edge.. face it, there are more viewpoints and you're not the one to tell someone how to interpret his own religion. there are christians that believe that wine is important part of sermon, yet there are others, that view their body as a temple and drugs of any kind as poison. add the aspects of possibility ( eg.that Jesus may NEVER drank wine) I've been talking before and you have very interesting equation (and we STILL didn't touch the neverending debate about translation of Bible which would add even more possibilities). I'm not trying to be rude, but you have no right to generalize someone's believes nor judge him according to your own perception of reality..

I adressed you by quoting you, becasue your quote was written in relation to the topic. Give me a break.i'm sick of repeating myself, and the things that have already been said in this very thread. Do your research, and read it all over again (if you have read it in the first place, which i doubt, based on your replies.)

it all comes down to integrity. it can be simply said, that if you are christian you can't be sxe, or even better, if you think you are sxe and claim to be a christian, you are a shitty person, no integrity, whatsoever period. it's just flexing and changing bits and pieces of ideas to match the imaginary connections in your head, withouth wanting to try to be rude either

**lo0m** · 05-26-2009, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by SgtD

I adressed you by quoting you, becasue your quote was written in relation to the topic. Give me a break.i'm sick of repeating myself, and the things that have already been said in this very thread. Do your research, and read it all over again (if you have read it in the first place, which i doubt, based on your replies.)

it all comes down to integrity. it can be simply said, that if you are christian you can't be sxe, or even better, if you think you are sxe and claim to be a christian, you are a shitty person, no integrity, whatsoever period. it's just flexing and changing bits and pieces of ideas to match the imaginary connections in your head, withouth wanting to try to be rude either

sorry, writing from links browser, hope it will turn out ok.
forget sxe.. are there christian abstinents? yes, of course there are. there have always been. stop trying to argue from inside the religious "rules" (even when Jesus himself propably said that his teachings are NOT set of rules) you dont abide as youre not christian (reverse logics). let this to theologians as it takes a hard and long study to undestand all aspects and even then (or maybe its because) a theologian is always careful to start point fingers...
ok, i can see your "what-an-asshole" face right now :-))) j/k.. i had to make this point and now away from this neverending topic.. hope i didnt offended you in any way as it was certainly NOT my intention!

**straightXed** · 05-26-2009, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by lo0m

i'm saying that comparing YOUR(or someone others) actions with someone who:

a) is God
b) was propably very different in person than in the Bible
or
c) maybe was a prophet but everything written about him is corrupted by man

is RIDICULOUS.. btw - i don't think that Jesus was drinking as I see drinking as bad choice..

Thats all well and good but its generally accepted that the idea the bible presesnts of jesus is the idea that christians uphold of jesus. In said bible jesus is said to drink, straightedge alligns with the idea that drinking is not right. Thus alligning yourself with both causes contradiction...you either think jesus's actions were wrong and choose not to live like him because you think he was erronous...thus dispelling the idea of him being god and ignoring the advice in the bible. Or you are disregarding segments of the bible as it doens't fit with your life thus simply cherry picking aspects of the bible that fit and further adding to your point c).

Now you saying you don't think jesus was drinking just pretty much disregards the bible altogether, fine, but then do christians not use the bible? is this not the basis of that religion? Whilst you may feel you have a much better understanding of your relationship with god there is still this overwhelming majority of people that follow christianity and the bible and as such i fail to see how anything you say has reconciled those peoples beliefs with that of straightedge. All you have highlighted is that the religion is so poor in consistancy and is so run down that there are so many different schools of thought that disregard this and that, it just seems likme you are saying christianity at large is greatly flawed. I mean hardcore really isn't here for christians to co opt in order to recruit young minds to warp, so even if you do somehow manage to rationalise the inconsistancy in views it remains that in general christianity simply isn't a welcome force in straightedge and hardcore due to the way it corrupts things to mean something else. Don't get me wrong, i respect peoples beliefs but i just find it very puzzling why christians want to be a part of this, other than the recruiting i mean.

**xsecx** · 05-26-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by lo0m

that's easy logic, isn't it?

if i don't believe the Bible then why I can't talk about Jesus as God? there's a possibility.. He CAN be.. I DON'T know..so why I should abandon this possibility...

ok.. there's only one other teaching regarding Jesus that says it's revealed by God of Abraham and was revealed after Jesus' death. And that is Quran. It surely was written roughly 6 centuries after Jesus walked the Earth, but, unlike the Bible, it has remained UNCHANGED to this day. So now, we have two scriptures.

Bible - segmented, written by many men, changed by many men. compiling based on politics and personal beliefs. contains infos that are in direct contradiction with our today's scientifical abundance.

Quran - written by one man through cca 23 yrs (not sure), does not contradict itself, is much more logical, contains info that writer propably could not have known and which does not contradict today's science.

hey, I guess that now it's only matter if you DO or DON'T believe The Source - if you believe in God and if you believe particular scripture was revealed by him or not.. I've left this questions opened...

If you follow the quran then this is a moot conversation because you don't believe that jesus was divine and therefore aren't christian. The discussion at hand is about christian beliefs and their contradictions, if you're following the teachings of the quran then you're introducing something completely different than what is actually being discussed.

**lo0m** · 05-26-2009, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by straightXed

Thats all well and good but its generally accepted that the idea the bible presesnts of jesus is the idea that christians uphold of jesus. In said bible jesus is said to drink, straightedge alligns with the idea that drinking is not right. Thus alligning yourself with both causes contradiction...you either think jesus's actions were wrong and choose not to live like him because you think he was erronous...thus dispelling the idea of him being god and ignoring the advice in the bible. Or you are disregarding segments of the bible as it doens't fit with your life thus simply cherry picking aspects of the bible that fit and further adding to your point c).

Now you saying you don't think jesus was drinking just pretty much disregards the bible altogether, fine, but then do christians not use the bible? is this not the basis of that religion? Whilst you may feel you have a much better understanding of your relationship with god there is still this overwhelming majority of people that follow christianity and the bible and as such i fail to see how anything you say has reconciled those peoples beliefs with that of straightedge. All you have highlighted is that the religion is so poor in consistancy and is so run down that there are so many different schools of thought that disregard this and that, it just seems likme you are saying christianity at large is greatly flawed. I mean hardcore really isn't here for christians to co opt in order to recruit young minds to warp, so even if you do somehow manage to rationalise the inconsistancy in views it remains that in general christianity simply isn't a welcome force in straightedge and hardcore due to the way it corrupts things to mean something else. Don't get me wrong, i respect peoples beliefs but i just find it very puzzling why christians want to be a part of this, other than the recruiting i mean.

wow, well said.. now i can see the problem.. youre talking about religion as a set of dogmas and rules.. thats fine as its true and we can see it every day.. i was talking about some hypothetical, yet very real inner true spirit of christianity.. that represents through charity, forgiveness and similar stuff (lets be honest - which too much christians lack).. grr, i wish my english was better...
anyway, yes, in that case you guys are right, as its a lot simplified reality. pure rules comparing. i guess many christians would tell you that this rule is not that important, but i can be wrong... peace..