Coffee

[Princevaliant]

Hey Guys,
I was just wondering what everyone here thought about drinking coffee while being edge...
I've heard a few people argue that because coffee contains caffeine it's a drug and shouldn't be consumed...what are your opinions on this topic?

Personally I agree that caffeine is a drug BUT I also think that:
a) if coffee truly makes you function better than as long as you drink the least amount possible then it's okay, but you shouldn’t drink more than you really need to
and
b) if it turns out that coffee or the amount that you drink harms your body then you should stop drinking as soon as possible
and
c) as long as you make sure it's not an addiction (and if it is, you quit immediately) then it's fine

so yeah...any ideas?

[Slober]

Does this mean you can also smoke pot once a year?

Btw. there is already a pretty good topic about coffee and caffeine: http://www.sxe.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4873

[straightXed]

Hey Guys,
I was just wondering what everyone here thought about drinking coffee while being edge...
I've heard a few people argue that because coffee contains caffeine it's a drug and shouldn't be consumed...what are your opinions on this topic?

Personally I agree that caffeine is a drug BUT I also think that:
a) if coffee truly makes you function better than as long as you drink the least amount possible then it's okay, but you shouldn’t drink more than you really need to

Okay, how does coffee make you function "better", and I'm sure many other drugs can make you function in an equally "better" manner. Are they drugs you'd also condone?

And you talk about consuming the least amount possible, that amount is zero, you don't need more than zero and zero is an attainable amount.

That said many people consume a small amount but this won't change how they function, if you are looking to gain a change in how you function after consuming caffeine then you are actively using a drug for its effect, and you have to ask yourself how is that drug ok and other drugs not ok?

and
b) if it turns out that coffee or the amount that you drink harms your body then you should stop drinking as soon as possible

But assuming you have a stance against the recreational usage of drugs (like straightedge) then how would you reconcile using caffeine for its effect? And if the only problem is the damage it causes then there are many other drugs that can be taken in moderation to avoid damage but for most its more than just the physical damage it can cause. Flip side of that is of course the fact that regular consumption will probably contribute to accumulative damage that isn't really noticeable day by day or month by month but rather it is noticed over long time periods.

and
c) as long as you make sure it's not an addiction (and if it is, you quit immediately) then it's fine

so yeah...any ideas?

Well once again, why is consumption of caffeine okay and other drugs in moderation not? I think its important to remember straightedge isn't about moderation, its a clear and definite stance against the use of drugs recreationally. I mean if you condone caffeine then whats to stop you condoning other drugs in certain moderate amounts and practices?

Basically the caffeine discussions on here will generally require you to give a reason why caffeine is ok and other drugs aren't given the same factors you have set out for caffeine being ok. And why people are set stringently against all other drugs and not caffeine?

For a lot of incidents its people not actually thinking about caffeine as a drug but when you take the time to think about it i would really like to know how you can continue think in terms of an anti drug stance whilst inconsistently condoning a drug and its effect.

[PROPER JERK]

This topic reminded me of this shirt:

http://merchnow.com/store/merchant.m...oduct_Count=10

Why is it that all straight edge clothing brands suck so bad...

[Meteor]

Yes, coffee is a drug, but I must admit that I'm not sure if being drugfree incorporates / should incorporate coffee or caffeine.
I don't drink coffee, but I drink cola and that also contains caffeine. But I've never heard about someone getting addicted to cola. So I'm asking: Is it really the caffeine that makes you addicted?
But I know a lot people I think it's not normal how much coffee they drink.
'Cause of this I don't wanna drink coffee, but like I said I'm not sure if it might be okay to do so, so I think everybody has to decide that on his own.

Does this mean you can also smoke pot once a year?

Well, but not everyone can get addicted to caffeine. And if so, you don't get addicted to caffeine as fast as to dope. If you notice that you drink more and more coffee, you are maybe one of the people who can get addicted. Then you have to decide if you want to stop drinking coffee.

[D1988]

Yes, coffee is a drug, but I must admit that I'm not sure if being drugfree incorporates / should incorporate coffee or caffeine.
I don't drink coffee, but I drink cola and that also contains caffeine. But I've never heard about someone getting addicted to cola. So I'm asking: Is it really the caffeine that makes you addicted?
But I know a lot people I think it's not normal how much coffee they drink.
'Cause of this I don't wanna drink coffee, but like I said I'm not sure if it might be okay to do so, so I think everybody has to decide that on his own.


Well, but not everyone can get addicted to caffiene. And if so, you don't get addicted to caffeine as fast as to dope. If you notice that you drink more and more coffee, you are maybe one of the people who can get addicted. Then you have to decide if you want to stop drinking coffee.

You just said it yourself. Caffeine is a drug, how can you live drug free if you consume a drug? Coca Cola and coffee both contain caffeine. It isn't really a matter of being addicted or how quickly you become addicted at all. Would it be OK for me to have a beer once a week aslong as I don't get addicted?

[xsecx]

Yes, coffee is a drug, but I must admit that I'm not sure if being drugfree incorporates / should incorporate coffee or caffeine.
I don't drink coffee, but I drink cola and that also contains caffeine. But I've never heard about someone getting addicted to cola. So I'm asking: Is it really the caffeine that makes you addicted?
But I know a lot people I think it's not normal how much coffee they drink.
'Cause of this I don't wanna drink coffee, but like I said I'm not sure if it might be okay to do so, so I think everybody has to decide that on his own.


Well, but not everyone can get addicted to caffeine. And if so, you don't get addicted to caffeine as fast as to dope. If you notice that you drink more and more coffee, you are maybe one of the people who can get addicted. Then you have to decide if you want to stop drinking coffee.

you might want to do some research on caffeine addiction.

[Meteor]

You just said it yourself. Caffeine is a drug, how can you live drug free if you consume a drug?

No, I said Coffee is a drug.
I also questioned if it's really 'cause of the caffein.
"Yes, coffee is a drug (...) I'm asking: Is it really the caffeine that makes you addicted?"
But apart from that:

Coca Cola and coffee both contain caffeine. It isn't really a matter of being addicted or how quickly you become addicted at all. Would it be OK for me to have a beer once a week aslong as I don't get addicted?

What I wanted to say was, you can get addicted to everything. You can also get addicted to chocolate, pure sugar, fat burgers, apples (yes, of course) or everything you may like. Do you define that as drugs? And if you'd waive everything that could be defined as a drug, what would remain?



Btw, caffein isn't mind-bending.
I think that could also be an argument. But that's dependent on why you don't take drugs, if you do so 'cause they are mind-blending, it's one.

[xsecx]

No, I said Coffee is a drug.
I also questioned if it's really 'cause of the caffein.
"Yes, coffee is a drug (...) I'm asking: Is it really the caffeine that makes you addicted?"
But apart from that:

coffee isn't a drug though, caffeine is.

What I wanted to say was, you can get addicted to everything. You can also get addicted to chocolate, pure sugar, fat burgers, apples (yes, of course) or everything you may like. Do you define that as drugs? And if you'd waive everything that could be defined as a drug, what would remain?

yes, if you're prone to psychological addiction, but we're talking about physical addiction, which caffeine most certainly does cause.

Btw, caffein isn't mind-bending.
I think that could also be an argument. But that's dependent on why you don't take drugs, if you do so 'cause they are mind-blending, it's one.

define mind bending. Is nicotine mind bending? Is speed or cocaine? Why do you view caffeine differently from other drugs? WHat makes it different from others?

[PROPER JERK]

What I wanted to say was, you can get addicted to everything. You can also get addicted to chocolate, pure sugar, fat burgers, apples (yes, of course) or everything you may like. Do you define that as drugs? And if you'd waive everything that could be defined as a drug, what would remain?



Btw, caffein isn't mind-bending.
I think that could also be an argument. But that's dependent on why you don't take drugs, if you do so 'cause they are mind-blending, it's one.

There are thousands of drugs, the recreational drugs are only a small piece of the pie. Straight Edge is a stance against recreational drugs and because caffeine is consumed recreationally (Soda, Coffee, Tea etc.) it is considered against straight edge beliefs. Some straight edge people see caffeine in soda negligible and not something to abstain from where as others see it as a significant drug and something to avoid.

Your argument above about addictive substances and also damaging substances doesn't really apply to straight edge either, again it is recreational drug use that straight edge individuals abstain from.

[xsecx]

you might also want to read http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n..._caffeine.html

[Meteor]

coffee isn't a drug though, caffeine is.

Depends on how you define "drug".
I don't see Tea or Cola as a drug.

yes, if you're prone to psychological addiction, but we're talking about physical addiction, which caffeine most certainly does cause.

Finally, addiction is addiction.

define mind bending. Is nicotine mind bending? Is speed or cocaine? Why do you view caffeine differently from other drugs? What makes it different from others?

Argh "mind-bending" was the wrong word. Sorry, dunno the right word for that, I mean, every drug has an effect, that makes you do things you usually wouldn't do, I mean, someone who took cocain isn't "normal", from nicotine you can also get a "nicotine-flash". But that someone gets a "caffein-flash" is extrem unusually, and it's not the same as with nicotine. It's like... from caffein you don't become so "strange" as from other drugs. Do you know what I mean? The real bad effect is missing. It's just something you may like and you may get addicted from. But like I said, I dunno anyone who's physical addicted of cola.

There are thousands of drugs, the recreational drugs are only a small piece of the pie. Straight Edge is a stance against recreational drugs and because caffeine is consumed recreationally (Soda, Coffee, Tea etc.) it is considered against straight edge beliefs. Some straight edge people see caffeine in soda negligible and not something to abstain from where as others see it as a significant drug and something to avoid.

No of the "founders" of straight edge ever said "don't drink caffein! It's a drug", did he? It wasn't the basic idea of straight edge not do drink caffein. That opinion was brought into the scene by extreme-straight edgers (people who fabricated more rules for straight edge), just like vegetarism or veganism. If you think that to you, caffein is a drug, I won't tell you the contrary. But not everyone thinks so and that's okay.

Your argument above about addictive substances and also damaging substances doesn't really apply to straight edge either, again it is recreational drug use that straight edge individuals abstain from.

That results the next question: How do you define "recreational drug"?
Do you call Heroin "recreational"?

[xsecx]

Depends on how you define "drug".
I don't see Tea or Cola as a drug.

neither is coffee, but both contain the drug caffeine.

Finally, addiction is addiction.

not really. they are totally different. Physical addiction is an absolute where psychological isn't. Using the terms addiction to describe someone who plays a lot of video games and someone who has a chemcial dependency on a drug isn't anywhere near the same thing.

Argh "mind-bending" was the wrong word. Sorry, dunno the right word for that, I mean, every drug has an effect, that makes you do things you usually wouldn't do, I mean, someone who took cocain isn't "normal", from nicotine you can also get a "nicotine-flash". But that someone gets a "caffein-flash" is extrem unusually, and it's not the same as with nicotine. It's like... from caffein you don't become so "strange" as from other drugs. Do you know what I mean? The real bad effect is missing. It's just something you may like and you may get addicted from. But like I said, I dunno anyone who's physical addicted of cola.

take a step back and look at it objectively. look at what you're trying to argue and then think is someone else who used nicotine or pot or etc couldn't try and make the same argument. Nicotine and caffeine are extremely similar. All of the "negative" effects from nicotine come from the consumption of tobacco, not the nicotine itself. So would you chew nicotine gum? Neither drug alters personality or perception. so why are you against one and ok with another? Caffeine is the most widely abused drug on earth, so chances are you do.

[PROPER JERK]

That results the next question: How do you define "recreational drug"?
Do you call Heroin "recreational"?

I assume you are talking about morphine/heroin used as a painkiller in hospitals and other medical situations. Isn't this one pretty easy? Using opioids in a medical situation is a lot different to shooting some junk to get high. Obviously the second situation is using the drug recreationally and you ask how you can define a recreational drug? It isn't just illegal drugs that are used recreationally. Sleeping pills, Antidepressants, Anti Psychotics and Painkillers are used for recreational purposes just as much as the illegal drugs and it is fairly easy to distinguish when a drug is being used for medical purposes and when it is used recreationally.

I will break it down into black and white for you just to make sure it gets through.

Recreational Drug Use:

Using a substance for non medical reasons
Using a substance to feel a high
Abusing a substance to create ill effects

Now here you might say, well caffeine is different to that but really how is it? Most caffeine consumers use caffeine to stay awake or become more alert, what is the difference in using caffeine to stay awake than using ecstasy to stay awake except for potency? And the argument saying you don't consume caffeine to stay awake is like me saying I don't drink alcohol to get drunk so therefore it is alright.

[Meteor]

neither is coffee, but both contain the drug caffeine.

>.< I don't wanna say the same again and again.
Just read what I wrote in posts before.

not really. they are totally different. Physical addiction is an absolute where psychological isn't. Using the terms addiction to describe someone who plays a lot of video games and someone who has a chemcial dependency on a drug isn't anywhere near the same thing.

Yes that's true but who doesn't want to get addicted you don't care about physical addiction and psychological addiction, no one would say "I don't take those drugs 'cause I don't want to get physical addicted, but I take these drugs from which I just could get psychological addicted, what's not so bad".
Finally, you don't make this differentiation.
To simplfy: Addiction = Bad. Doesn't matter which kind of.

take a step back and look at it objectively. look at what you're trying to argue and then think is someone else who used nicotine or pot or etc couldn't try and make the same argument. Nicotine and caffeine are extremely similar. All of the "negative" effects from nicotine come from the consumption of tobacco, not the nicotine itself. So would you chew nicotine gum? Neither drug alters personality or perception.

Just read what I wrote before, that'll answer the question why I won't chew nicotine gum.
I said several times that there are multiple things that make a drug a drug. Not just the fact that they make "negative effects" and not just the fact that they are addictive and so on.

You write something to one thing I said, and then you ask a question (to what I said afterwards) that would be answered by what I said before. Better just read the whole text and not just the little parts, or we'll have 2 multiple Threads in one.

so why are you against one and ok with another? Caffeine is the most widely abused drug on earth, so chances are you do.

You ask permanently the same questions I already answered.

I assume you are talking about morphine/heroin used as a painkiller in hospitals and other medical situations. Isn't this one pretty easy? Using opioids in a medical situation is a lot different to shooting some junk to get high. Obviously the second situation is using the drug recreationally and you ask how you can define a recreational drug? It isn't just illegal drugs that are used recreationally. Sleeping pills, Antidepressants, Anti Psychotics and Painkillers are used for recreational purposes just as much as the illegal drugs and it is fairly easy to distinguish when a drug is being used for medical purposes and when it is used recreationally.

No I didn't talk about painkillers in hospitals. I'm not from America and here it isn't allowed to take heroin as a painkiller.

Now here you might say, well caffeine is different to that but really how is it? Most caffeine consumers use caffeine to stay awake or become more alert, what is the difference in using caffeine to stay awake than using ecstasy to stay awake except for potency? And the argument saying you don't consume caffeine to stay awake is like me saying I don't drink alcohol to get drunk so therefore it is alright.

You compare two drugs you can't compare. Ecstasy to stay awake? No one takes Ecstasy just to stay awake.
And what you say about drinking alcohol not to get drunk has nothing to do with what I said. And I didn't say that it's okay to consume caffeine if you don't do it to stay awake. I said it's okay to consume caffeine at all.


I think what you two are saying becomes from post to post more far-fetched and partially you're repeating what you said before.
And I see no sense in discussing with you about if it's okay to consume caffeine while being straight edge, what was the main question of this thread. No one except you and a few extreme-straight edgers ever said that it isn't. And you aren't the ones to decide it, realize that. I think your arguments don't persuade, and you'll have to accept that.