oral sex?

[straightXed]

well that, i would have to say is just kind of fucked

Which, the idea that self respect means straight or that people derive entertainment at others expense?

Well, for one thing I don't watch tv to be completely honest with you. I'm well aware of propaghanda techniques. I don't buy into shit being sold by "beautiful women". I never make decisions/judgements based on information from media, especially mainstream media INCLUDING news programs/papers. That's why when people ask me about political views I'll tell them my views are extremely restricted to what I think is right, and not based off of most current events because most of the time we don't knwo the story behind the entire current event.

The internet is media! But anyway, so you don't watch TV so its not an issue but i quite like TV and i, as a consumer, have bought things based on influence. Certain things are marketed well towards me to make me want to buy them. Basically media can influence you, the straightedge hardcore scene can influence you and regardless of any source of influence being about self respect or not i thinks its very hard to guaruntee that you won't be influenced. Negatively or positively, its like your idea of hardline, somethings are influencing you to go that way and others are stacked against it but to a vast amount of people hardline means negative.

The Gorilla Biscuits reference was great and yes, I suppose self respect does relate to the ability to have power over your own will, which I do. I have to say though, the relation isn't something I've ever considered before so I really appreciate that concept.

Glad you appreciated it.

Well like I said, I'm VERY back and forth on it right now, especially because I haven't reached my goal of veganism yet, and my views aren't settled on abortion. It's something that I'd like to reach because I think it's extremely admirable, but I honestly don't know that I'll ever be strong-willed enough to reach that point, especially coming from the lifestyle I used to live. And I think the extremist view you put on hardline is ironic, especially being sXe. I've known several hardliners who don't force their views. It's just like sXe and the judgements I've dealt with(and i'm sure you probably have at some point too). Whenever I mention I'm edge, I'm automatically assumed to be a self righteous asshole who thinks he's better than everyone. If I were to ever go hardline it would be for my own choice of my own lifestyle, and while I would promote it to at least inform other people, I'd never force my views and hate everyone who didn't live by them.

But being hardline means to liberate others and deal out justice to those who don't live in accordance to the hardline manifesto. Basically it says if you don't live caring for all life and in now way endangering or harming life then you have no rights. That is what you align yourself with when you become hardline. Its not ironic, straightedge and hardline are very different movements.

[straightXed]

But you didn't make a personal choice to be a baby, that just happened naturally.

Ok say you used to play the guitar, or skateboard, or deep sea dive but ceased to. It doesn't mean you were never a gutarist or a skateboarder or a deep sea diver.

that is a great point and i'll admit i haven't truly thought about that. they made a great contribution and are part of the reason that i have the term straightedge to apply to my own life. that's a flaw in my view and i thank you for pointing that out. i honestly can't say that i'm sure how i feel about that completley right now, and when i have time to thoroughly think that through i'll give you a solid answer.

The answer is saying "if you are not straightedge now you never were" is wrong, theres not much more to it.

I appreciate what they gave to the scene, but I don't appreciate their decisions to break edge.

You don't even know those people, the reasons they broke edge and if you did know them and they were completely miserable being edge what would you say to them? Seriously, "you don't appreciate their choices in life", can you see how you are comming off with that comment? Now longevity isn't everything but after 5 months thats a really questionable stance to have, some people won't even take you seriously until youve been edge a year or two and with good reason, people sell out a lot and usually its people who are very vocal about never breaking and how they don't appreciate others who have. If its a personal choice to become edge then its a personal choice to stop being edge. You should appreciate their choices in life, if you know the people and think they are making a misteak you can talk to them but we are mainly talking about people you don't even know so what can you do but let them make their own choices.

I'm not trying to discredit everything ever done by anyone who's ended up breaking edge, but I do lose a LOT of respect for them.

Except you are discrediting them, you are dicrediting them ever being edge at all.

I mean, when a band ilke Gorilla Biscuits writes a song like New Direcion, and then everyone breaks edge and really kind of stops caring about the scene, wouldn't you agree that the hypocrisy is a bit distasteful?

Explain how?

and if 10 years down the line i should decide against being edge (which i can firmly say won't happen because i've been there, done that, hated every second) then I can promise you I won't say I was edge.

You can't firmly say it unless you have jumped into a time machine and lived in the mindset you will have in 10 years time, you are young and are going to completely transform into a different person over ten years. What you do and say know is valid now but you can't have any certainty for ten years time, which is the same with all the people that have broken edge after singing their hearts out about it. And again you can't promise me that either because already you have conceded that there are huge flaws in the statement "if you are not now you never were" and thats after a few minutes posting, how can you be sure how you will feel about things in ten years. Again you are setting yourself on a path and its really dangerous and restrictive to the growth of you as a person. First thing you should accept is that you are not standing still for the next ten years and you should be really open in letting your ideals and beliefs grow with you rather than strigently adhering to the things you think now. I hope you are still sraightedge in ten years but if you aren't we both know you were.

[NailedtotheX]

You can't firmly say it unless you have jumped into a time machine and lived in the mindset you will have in 10 years time, you are young and are going to completely transform into a different person over ten years. What you do and say know is valid now but you can't have any certainty for ten years time, which is the same with all the people that have broken edge after singing their hearts out about it. And again you can't promise me that either because already you have conceded that there are huge flaws in the statement "if you are not now you never were" and thats after a few minutes posting, how can you be sure how you will feel about things in ten years. Again you are setting yourself on a path and its really dangerous and restrictive to the growth of you as a person. First thing you should accept is that you are not standing still for the next ten years and you should be really open in letting your ideals and beliefs grow with you rather than strigently adhering to the things you think now. I hope you are still sraightedge in ten years but if you aren't we both know you were.

I can tell you now having been around what I have, and having done what I've done, that I will not EVER touch another mind altering substance again. I spent basically a year of my life hanging around junkies and d-beat kids, and when you see what kind of shit happens to those kids it's VERY easy to know what you're not going to do. I made a promise to myself based on what i've seen and what i've experienced. I know how I handle alcohol, I know how I react to several illegal substances and I refuse to fall into that trap again.

[straightXed]

I can tell you now having been around what I have, and having done what I've done, that I will not EVER touch another mind altering substance again. I spent basically a year of my life hanging around junkies and d-beat kids, and when you see what kind of shit happens to those kids it's VERY easy to know what you're not going to do. I made a promise to myself based on what i've seen and what i've experienced. I know how I handle alcohol, I know how I react to several illegal substances and I refuse to fall into that trap again.

no you can't say you will never do that, you have no idea how you will turn out. People grow up saying they will never smopke, drink or do drugs but end up doing it. You are kidding yourself if you think there is any certainty in your future actions that you can foretell right now. Promises to yourself can be broken, situations can see things in a completely different light and dude you aren't even old enough to drink so take a step back and don't think that just because you don't know how you or your future will turn out it will bad. Just accept that you cannot be sure of your future actions as much as you want them to reflect your desire right now.

[XCharlotteX]

i thought it was marriage and then sex....


atleast that's what a friend told me

[straightXed]

i thought it was marriage and then sex....


atleast that's what a friend told me

Nah, thats christianity i think.

[NailedtotheX]

no you can't say you will never do that, you have no idea how you will turn out. People grow up saying they will never smopke, drink or do drugs but end up doing it. You are kidding yourself if you think there is any certainty in your future actions that you can foretell right now. Promises to yourself can be broken, situations can see things in a completely different light and dude you aren't even old enough to drink so take a step back and don't think that just because you don't know how you or your future will turn out it will bad. Just accept that you cannot be sure of your future actions as much as you want them to reflect your desire right now.

well i suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree until i prove you wrong 10 years from now.

[xsecx]

well i suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree until i prove you wrong 10 years from now.

I think he wants you to prove him wrong, but he does bring a really good point. Look at the failure rate of marriage. No sane person goes into marriage thinking it will fail or even could fail, but there's still a 50% divorce rate. No one knows what kind of person they will, they only know what kind of person they hope they'll be.

[straightXed]

well i suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree until i prove you wrong 10 years from now.

Even if in ten years you still haven't touched any drink or drugs it won't prove me wrong. Because i'm not saying you will touch drugs or drink just that you can't be completely sure you won't no matter how you feel about it right now.

[kelly]

I think he wants you to prove him wrong, but he does bring a really good point. Look at the failure rate of marriage. No sane person goes into marriage thinking it will fail or even could fail, but there's still a 50% divorce rate. No one knows what kind of person they will, they only know what kind of person they hope they'll be.

... and the droupout rate of straightedge is way higher than 50%....

[NailedtotheX]

Even if in ten years you still haven't touched any drink or drugs it won't prove me wrong. Because i'm not saying you will touch drugs or drink just that you can't be completely sure you won't no matter how you feel about it right now.

Like I said, I've seen more than I'd ever like to see and while I can't tell exactly who I'll be, I can 100% garuntee you that i won't be touching anything, and you can mark my word on it.

[straightXed]

Like I said, I've seen more than I'd ever like to see and while I can't tell exactly who I'll be, I can 100% garuntee you that i won't be touching anything, and you can mark my word on it.

No you can't guaruntee it, you can say you really hope that you don't but thats you right now saying that, not you in ten years time. You've been edge for 5 months who knows how you will feel about it in 5 or 10 years? if you don't know who you will be how can you say what choices you will make or what situations will arrise. Who knows what your thoughts on drinking or drugs will be in 10 years. You aren't there so you don't know and cannot guaruntee a thing no matter how adamant you are about that right now. You know i've seen some really crazy fucked up shit involving drinking and drugs, i've lost friends and seen family members really fuck things up but no matter how much i have seen i can never say for sure what my future stance will be, i've been straight edge for a fair period of time now but i can't say i'll still be edge at 50. I mean looking back over the past 6 or 7 years there doesn't seem to be any indication of me drinking or doing drugs but i have most certainly changed the way i think about so much, 10 years ago i could never have been sure about the things i am thinking and doing now. You've already demonstrated by becoming edge how your mindset has changed in just a years or so and it is liable to do a shit load of changing particularly over the next 10 years in this period of your life. Surely you are aware of how different people 10 years older than you think, your reasons right now may not even be applicable in the future. I believe that right now you are 100% in thinking that you will never touch drink or drugs again and it seems so certain but until you have lived the next 10 years there is no certainty that you will still think that. You just have no idea what sort of thoughts you will develop over the next 10 years and unless you plan on standing still for 10 years in some kind of cryogenic stasis feild you are going to be different, it doesn't mean you will drink or do drugs just that there is no 100% guaruntee, it could be that your reasons for being straightedge change a lot but you remain sober, you could possibly still feel the exact same way but no guaruntee on any of it. I just hope you realise what you are saying is stuff you mean now not stuff you will necessarily mean in 10 years time.

[kelly]

I have to agree with ed... I became edge at about the same age as you, and I'm 28 now and have managed to stick with it... and I think you need to rethink this 100% guarantee thing, because it leaves little room for change or adaptation to future circumstances. You will be influenced by people around you and things that happen to you, and your beliefs WILL change. Whether or not this will allow you to stay edge will be up to you, and taking too strict of a stance on things leaves little room for you to weather changes in your lifestyle while sticking to your beliefs.

All but one of my friends who were edge when I was 19 aren't any longer - because of a lot of different circumstances that they couldn't possibly forsee. In my case, I had a lot of trouble a few years ago when I was living as a snowboard bum, in a town, where everyone drinks, and most likely smokes weed as well. But, I love to snowboard, so I'm not really going to set myself apart from all of these people and ride alone all of the time... It took a lot of adjustment for me to get used to hanging out with people who drink socially, but now I'm ok with it. Now I'm in Denver at grad school, and pretty much all of my friends drink, and even those who don't drink hang out in bars (where you can go to shows without dealing with the annoying 15 year old kid crowd). It would be bad for my career and emotional state to not socialize with all of these people. Through being friends with a lot of people who do drink, my attitude towards drinking has evolved... I'm no longer as strict in my thinking as I was when I was 19.

That being said, it would be great if you really can stay true to edge... so I wish you luck.

[NailedtotheX]

No you can't guaruntee it, you can say you really hope that you don't but thats you right now saying that, not you in ten years time. You've been edge for 5 months who knows how you will feel about it in 5 or 10 years? if you don't know who you will be how can you say what choices you will make or what situations will arrise. Who knows what your thoughts on drinking or drugs will be in 10 years. You aren't there so you don't know and cannot guaruntee a thing no matter how adamant you are about that right now. You know i've seen some really crazy fucked up shit involving drinking and drugs, i've lost friends and seen family members really fuck things up but no matter how much i have seen i can never say for sure what my future stance will be, i've been straight edge for a fair period of time now but i can't say i'll still be edge at 50. I mean looking back over the past 6 or 7 years there doesn't seem to be any indication of me drinking or doing drugs but i have most certainly changed the way i think about so much, 10 years ago i could never have been sure about the things i am thinking and doing now. You've already demonstrated by becoming edge how your mindset has changed in just a years or so and it is liable to do a shit load of changing particularly over the next 10 years in this period of your life. Surely you are aware of how different people 10 years older than you think, your reasons right now may not even be applicable in the future. I believe that right now you are 100% in thinking that you will never touch drink or drugs again and it seems so certain but until you have lived the next 10 years there is no certainty that you will still think that. You just have no idea what sort of thoughts you will develop over the next 10 years and unless you plan on standing still for 10 years in some kind of cryogenic stasis feild you are going to be different, it doesn't mean you will drink or do drugs just that there is no 100% guaruntee, it could be that your reasons for being straightedge change a lot but you remain sober, you could possibly still feel the exact same way but no guaruntee on any of it. I just hope you realise what you are saying is stuff you mean now not stuff you will necessarily mean in 10 years time.

You really don't know me at all yet and you can talk to me about this when you see the shit i've seen. i understand where you're coming from, but when you watch people die it makes great exceptions to how your life will change. argue it all you want but as i said, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and until the day i die i WILL NOT have touched a single fucking thing.

[xsecx]

You really don't know me at all yet and you can talk to me about this when you see the shit i've seen. i understand where you're coming from, but when you watch people die it makes great exceptions to how your life will change. argue it all you want but as i said, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and until the day i die i WILL NOT have touched a single fucking thing.

the point is that there isn't a person alive who can state how they WILL be, just how they want/hope they'll be. To bring it back to the original discussion, do you think all those kids who wrote all those songs thought they wouldn't be edge at one point? No one knows what the future is going to bring. I've seen some fucked up shit in my life. I've lost people to drugs and alcohol. I've been edge for over 15 years now. I hate drugs and alcohol. And even after saying all that I can't say that I will be edge til death. I can say that I hope I will be and that I don't see any reason why I'd change, but I still have to recognize the possibility of change. Anyone that's alive today can change tomorrow.