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Thread: What is hardline?

  1. #16
    Duchess of Adventures xvunderx's Avatar
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    Re: reply

    Originally posted by sabresnmets
    so then they all use recycled paper, and shit like that, right? this seems like more of a hippie thing, am i right? it just seems like that is a hard way to live. it limits your way of life so much. not even the eating thing, ive talked about that before. it seems like you have to be too careful to me.
    I would say for me it's worring too much about the impact of your diet on the world, like it has to at that point become a huge part of your life. I guess for me to go vegan, and consentrate on other issues along side that would be a more productive life choice, but thats just me, and I;m only a half ass vegetarian.

  2. #17
    Registered User sabresnmets's Avatar
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    i like the lion kings idea its all a part of the great circle of life. i guess if its a part of life then it just comes natural. but i just feel like i would be too careful that im not stepping on an ant hill or eating spiders in my sleep. (of course im going overboard but you know what im getting at)

  3. #18
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    Re: reply

    Originally posted by sabresnmets
    so then they all use recycled paper, and shit like that, right? this seems like more of a hippie thing, am i right? it just seems like that is a hard way to live. it limits your way of life so much. not even the eating thing, ive talked about that before. it seems like you have to be too careful to me.
    For one thing, it's not a hippy thing, it's just that some people care enough about the state of the planet to make certain changes to lessen their impact. It's not a hard way to live at all, it takes a little effort to change certain habits and that's it. When it comes down to it, it's all just a matter of whether you care enough or not. If environmental, human, and animal issues don't matter that much to you then you aren't going to make the effort to change. Those of us who think it is important enough live this way do, those who don't think it's that important don't.

    This isn't meant as a value judgement by the way. I'm not saying that people who live this way are better, we just have different priorities is all.
    "Where the hell is my riot?"

    "my true compassion is for all living things and not just the ones who are cute so i do what i can.
    i wanna save lives and i've got a plan"

    http://www.veganfitness.net

  4. #19
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    im vegan, straight edge, pro-life, against corporations and slave labor (dont buy from wal-mart, fast food chains, and so on) but im not down with the "dealing out justice" its not my place to do so. I will educate, but i wont kill or harm someone for doing other than myself. but yeah, i remember reading that a long time ago....and looking into and asking questions when i was posting here 3 years ago.
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  5. #20
    Administrator xsecx's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LakeEffectGabe
    im vegan, straight edge, pro-life, against corporations and slave labor (dont buy from wal-mart, fast food chains, and so on) but im not down with the "dealing out justice" its not my place to do so. I will educate, but i wont kill or harm someone for doing other than myself. but yeah, i remember reading that a long time ago....and looking into and asking questions when i was posting here 3 years ago.
    how do you reconcile being vegan, straight edge and christian?

  6. #21
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    Originally posted by xsecx
    how do you reconcile being vegan, straight edge and christian?

    im not sure i get what you mean...elaborate please and i will try and explain
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  7. #22
    Administrator xsecx's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LakeEffectGabe
    im not sure i get what you mean...elaborate please and i will try and explain
    how can you be all 3. I can understand being vegan and straight edge. I don't see how you can christian and vegan or christian and straight edge.

  8. #23
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    ok i will try and explain my reasoning to the best of my ability...


    as far as straight edge and christian, that's a tired argument gone over many times by many people. I've found it's up to a matter of opinion. If you can give my biblical facts saying sXe is wrong or to not be sXe, then I would take those facts into serious consideration...


    now for vegan and christian...I don't see how there could be any problem with this whatsoever. God gave us dominion over the animals. They are ours to care for, and yes, even eat. However, man has twisted this privelage into something disgusting. With today's factory farms animals are pumped full of hormones, steroids, and basically a bunch of junk. They are treated inhumanely and genetically altered. Do I think God condones this? Not at all. Christians will say "Oh but God said to eat meat!" Well He said, let he who eats meat, eat meat; and let he does not, not. (not an exact quote, sorry I don't have my Bible right handy to look it up...if anyone can correct me if i'm wrong that would be much appreciated!). So regardless of the inhumane treatment, I don't see how it would be a problem to be christian and vegan. It's a choice. The use and consumption of animal products this day and age is completely unnecesary (sp?). There was a time when all that was available was leather for clothing, or meat, milk, and egg for essential vitamens. But in that time, nothing (or almost nothing) was wasted. There were not huge farms with animals packed into to tiny spaces, pumped full of chemicals and then sucked dry. If someone wants to eat meat from an animal raised properly without hormones or other chemicals I'd much sooner condone that than to grab a buger at McD's or even buy a slab of beef from Giant Eagle (or other grocery store...) However I would not eat it myself because like I said, it is unecesary (i need a spell checker).

    Um I think I explained myself...It's kinda late and I'm kinda tired so I may have left something out...I guess I'll see what kind of response I get.
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  9. #24
    Registered User sabresnmets's Avatar
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    dont they have free range meat, the kind where there are no crap pumped into them and they can roam free in a real feild? and if there is anyone who has tasted it, does it taste any different?

  10. #25
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    Originally posted by LakeEffectGabe
    now for vegan and christian...I don't see how there could be any problem with this whatsoever. God gave us dominion over the animals. They are ours to care for, and yes, even eat. However, man has twisted this privelage into something disgusting. With today's factory farms animals are pumped full of hormones, steroids, and basically a bunch of junk. They are treated inhumanely and genetically altered. Do I think God condones this? Not at all. Christians will say "Oh but God said to eat meat!" Well He said, let he who eats meat, eat meat; and let he does not, not. (not an exact quote, sorry I don't have my Bible right handy to look it up...if anyone can correct me if i'm wrong that would be much appreciated!). So regardless of the inhumane treatment, I don't see how it would be a problem to be christian and vegan. It's a choice. The use and consumption of animal products this day and age is completely unnecesary (sp?). There was a time when all that was available was leather for clothing, or meat, milk, and egg for essential vitamens. But in that time, nothing (or almost nothing) was wasted. There were not huge farms with animals packed into to tiny spaces, pumped full of chemicals and then sucked dry. If someone wants to eat meat from an animal raised properly without hormones or other chemicals I'd much sooner condone that than to grab a buger at McD's or even buy a slab of beef from Giant Eagle (or other grocery store...) However I would not eat it myself because like I said, it is unecesary (i need a spell checker).
    I can't remember the exact reference but I believe it may state in the Book of Timothy that it is sinful to be vegetarian and vegan. Something about how we must not refuse any of God's food that he provides for us.
    How do you reconcile that with being both a xtian and vegan?
    "Where the hell is my riot?"

    "my true compassion is for all living things and not just the ones who are cute so i do what i can.
    i wanna save lives and i've got a plan"

    http://www.veganfitness.net

  11. #26
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    Re: reply

    Originally posted by sabresnmets
    dont they have free range meat, the kind where there are no crap pumped into them and they can roam free in a real feild? and if there is anyone who has tasted it, does it taste any different?
    The legal definition of free range in relation to chickens is that the enclosures must be above a certain size, which I can't remember off the top of my head but it isn't big. The idea that free range chickens are allowed to wander around playing in the farmyard is in most cases nonsense. Your livestock can still be called free range even if you pump them full of chemicals and hormones. It is only organic meat that isn't allowed to be fed that kind of stuff.
    "Where the hell is my riot?"

    "my true compassion is for all living things and not just the ones who are cute so i do what i can.
    i wanna save lives and i've got a plan"

    http://www.veganfitness.net

  12. #27
    Administrator xsecx's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LakeEffectGabe
    ok i will try and explain my reasoning to the best of my ability...


    as far as straight edge and christian, that's a tired argument gone over many times by many people. I've found it's up to a matter of opinion. If you can give my biblical facts saying sXe is wrong or to not be sXe, then I would take those facts into serious consideration...


    now for vegan and christian...I don't see how there could be any problem with this whatsoever. God gave us dominion over the animals. They are ours to care for, and yes, even eat. However, man has twisted this privelage into something disgusting. With today's factory farms animals are pumped full of hormones, steroids, and basically a bunch of junk. They are treated inhumanely and genetically altered. Do I think God condones this? Not at all. Christians will say "Oh but God said to eat meat!" Well He said, let he who eats meat, eat meat; and let he does not, not. (not an exact quote, sorry I don't have my Bible right handy to look it up...if anyone can correct me if i'm wrong that would be much appreciated!). So regardless of the inhumane treatment, I don't see how it would be a problem to be christian and vegan. It's a choice. The use and consumption of animal products this day and age is completely unnecesary (sp?). There was a time when all that was available was leather for clothing, or meat, milk, and egg for essential vitamens. But in that time, nothing (or almost nothing) was wasted. There were not huge farms with animals packed into to tiny spaces, pumped full of chemicals and then sucked dry. If someone wants to eat meat from an animal raised properly without hormones or other chemicals I'd much sooner condone that than to grab a buger at McD's or even buy a slab of beef from Giant Eagle (or other grocery store...) However I would not eat it myself because like I said, it is unecesary (i need a spell checker).

    Um I think I explained myself...It's kinda late and I'm kinda tired so I may have left something out...I guess I'll see what kind of response I get.
    the logic is pretty simple. jesus is god right? jesus is without fault and without sin, right? Therefore you should do everything jesus did.
    To say that something jesus did was wrong is to say that he is without fault. Therefore introducing that the fact that god is flawed. Conclusion god was wrong. God can't be wrong by definition.

  13. #28
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    to prenna: please show me this verse*. do you think God would condone what is going on within the meat industry?

    to sec: when did i say anything Jesus did was wrong? If you are referring to Him drinking wine or eating fish, I think you are stretching what I said.




    *edit
    Last edited by LakeEffectGabe; 12-06-2003 at 01:46 PM.
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  14. #29
    Administrator xsecx's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LakeEffectGabe
    to prenna: please show me this verse*. do you think God would condone what is going on within the meat industry?

    to sec: when did i say anything Jesus did was wrong? If you are referring to Him drinking wine or eating fish, I think you are stretching what I said.




    *edit
    If Jesus isn't wrong, then why don't you eat meat or drink wine?

  15. #30
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    there is no need to eat meat or drink wine as there was then.
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