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Thread: What is hardline?

  1. #151
    Token Canadian mouseman004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsecx
    right, a broken leg effects your life an awful lot less than being forced to have a child you don't want. So then how is it a stretch, it's still a consequence that wasn't intended? If you should be forced to live with the consequences of one action then why shouldn't you be forced to live with the consequences of all actions? What makes sex different than skateboarding?

    I get the comparison, but that would be like saying that stealing a bag of chips is the same as murder. In both situations you are breaking the law, so do you deserve the same punishment? The comparison does make sense, but its an issue of the extremity of each situation.
    Later Days

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseman004
    I get the comparison, but that would be like saying that stealing a bag of chips is the same as murder. In both situations you are breaking the law, so do you deserve the same punishment? The comparison does make sense, but its an issue of the extremity of each situation.
    how is it an extremity? Why should someone be able to seek medical treatment for a broken leg that happened as an unintended and unwanted consequence due to risky behavior but you shouldn't be able to seek medical treatment for an unintended and unwanted pregnancy? You're trying to say that one is murder and one is a bag of chips, when in reality they're both bags of chips. If you have sex you know the consequences before hand, so then how is any risky behavior different? Why should you be able to get treatment and not have to deal with the repercussions of one, but you do for another? Why is sex treated differently than any other risk behavior? Why are you kids so into the idea of punishing people for having sex?

  3. #153
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by xsecx
    because you're completely and totally wrong? http://www.plannedparenthood.org/bir...de-effects.htm
    okay... so planned parenthood sells abortions. their supposed "facts" are set up to make people feel comfortable with murdering their children. why do they not post any references for their claims? not a single reference for "recent studies" polls or anything.
    why do you just believe them? you required me to cite references in order for you to take my "explanaition" about HL into consideration, but you believe every word these baby killers have to say, because "they say so"?

    since you people love scenarios so much check thisout.

    mcdonalds claims to have the best "burger" on the market, they put comercials on tv to sell their product, does mcdonalds make the best burger because THEY say they do?

    if you believe that a woman has more "guilt" for having a baby, then a would be mother would have for killing her child, then you are out of your mind.



    so to sum up, women aren't capable of making decisions for themselves, irresponsible and whores.
    i never generalized women, you did. women are perfectly capable of making decisions for themselves. just like men, women can be responsible just as easily as they can be irresponsible. and yes some women are whores. but i never once said ALL women, remember your big deal about the word ALL and how it can't mean SOME you fucking idiot.

    i said i don't care about these whores that are doing this strictly because they have the "convenience" of abortion. and if you think there aren't whores like that out there then you are kidding yourself.


    you like contradicting yourself.
    all this from the person that just contradicted himself?

    Say you're out skateboarding and have on lots of protective gear and still end up breaking your leg, in your world you knew the risk and even thought it was an UNINTENDED consequence of the action you should be forced to live with it, so you shouldn't be able to get medical treatment for it. Or does your world view only apply to sex and misogyny?
    first of all the "broken leg" scenario wasn't mine to begin with maybe you should read all of the posts about the topic.
    and yes, if you break your leg you MUST live with it, are you supposed to fade into some magical realm where your leg isn't broken anymore?
    and getting medical attention for an UNINTENDED accidental consequence such as a broken lef isn't the same as killing your unborn child.
    yes everyone knows that skateboarding can end up with a broken leg, but getting a broken leg doesn't REQUIRE skateboarding.
    conceiving a child REQUIRES sex.

    of all the topics about abortion, you chose the scenario to debate????
    you're a real class act.
    Last edited by Tahir; 11-06-2006 at 11:24 PM.

  4. #154
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by xsecx
    how is it an extremity?
    i believe your comment about HL and why it's "extreme" was:

    "The fact that you get to judge innocent and punishment, when you're in no position to do either is what makes it extreme view."

    so why is some woman in the position to judge the innocent and punishment for a fetus that didn't "choose" to be there. but the "mother" and "father" chose to take the necessary actions to put it there?
    how ISN'T it extreme?


    Why should someone be able to seek medical treatment for a broken leg that happened as an unintended and unwanted consequence due to risky behavior but you shouldn't be able to seek medical treatment for an unintended and unwanted pregnancy?
    because treating a broken leg, doesn't consist of taking a life.

    You're trying to say that one is murder and one is a bag of chips, when in reality they're both bags of chips.
    actually one is murder.

    If you have sex you know the consequences before hand, so then how is any risky behavior different?
    because you can't get pregnant by skateboarding. and skateboarding doesn't have the risk of creating a life.


    Why should you be able to get treatment and not have to deal with the repercussions of one, but you do for another?
    because one is fixing a boo boo, and the other is taking a life.


    Why is sex treated differently than any other risk behavior? Why are you kids so into the idea of punishing people for having sex?
    because sex has the possibility of creating a life, and therefore YOU are not the only one involved, there is an innocent 3rd party that didn't ask to be there, but because of YOU and YOUR actions, the 3rd party exists and must be given it's opportunity of life without interference.

    nobody is into "punishing people for having sex" but if you do the crime you do the time right? same goes with acting irresponsibly with your private parts.

    by your arguments, you must believe that a "father" who doesn't want to take responsibilities for his actions is "okay" with being a "deadbeat" father... it is his "right" right? i mean what if HE doesn't want the child, and it happens on "accident" is he obligated to care for/support this child??? or is he free to go without a care in the world while the mother cares for/supports this child alone?

  5. #155
    Token Canadian mouseman004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsecx
    how is it an extremity? Why should someone be able to seek medical treatment for a broken leg that happened as an unintended and unwanted consequence due to risky behavior but you shouldn't be able to seek medical treatment for an unintended and unwanted pregnancy? You're trying to say that one is murder and one is a bag of chips, when in reality they're both bags of chips. If you have sex you know the consequences before hand, so then how is any risky behavior different? Why should you be able to get treatment and not have to deal with the repercussions of one, but you do for another? Why is sex treated differently than any other risk behavior? Why are you kids so into the idea of punishing people for having sex?

    The difference is, skateboarding cannot lead to pregnancy or the creation of life. Everything is not as black and white as you make it. An abortion is not simply medical treatment. it is an invasive operation that ends life (or the potential for life). To compare a broken leg to abortion is a ridiculous comparison.

    so to you abortion is just a form of birth control? It is simply a medical procedure that you can have if you accidently become pregnant from sex? Oops look I'm pregnant, thats no big deal, I can just go to the hospital and have an abortion! thats it? Would you compare it to taking tylenol for a headache?

    I'm not trying to punish people from having sex, if that were the case I would be against treatment from AIDS or any STI. I'm just saying that an abortion is not something that should be taken lightly. Thats all.
    Later Days

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahir

    okay... so planned parenthood sells abortions. their supposed "facts" are set up to make people feel comfortable with murdering their children. why do they not post any references for their claims? not a single reference for "recent studies" polls or anything.
    why do you just believe them? you required me to cite references in order for you to take my "explanaition" about HL into consideration, but you believe every word these baby killers have to say, because "they say so"?
    Oh you mean like this? http://www.plannedparenthood.org/new...rtion-6137.htm
    You live in a dream world that isn't based on the reality around you and make unsubstantiated claims because you haven't actually looked at both sides of the issue. I mean, if you actually looked at it, you'd see the following: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/bir...-pregnancy.htm
    wow, every CHOICE is actually listed and it discusses each.

    since you people love scenarios so much check thisout.

    mcdonalds claims to have the best "burger" on the market, they put comercials on tv to sell their product, does mcdonalds make the best burger because THEY say they do?

    if you believe that a woman has more "guilt" for having a baby, then a would be mother would have for killing her child, then you are out of your mind.
    Sure if they back it up market share and consumer ratings. You know, unbiased studies that lead someone to having a conclusion. If you believe that most women are crippled by guilt after having an abortion than the ones that are raising children they didn't want, then you're out of your mind.




    i never generalized women, you did. women are perfectly capable of making decisions for themselves. just like men, women can be responsible just as easily as they can be irresponsible. and yes some women are whores. but i never once said ALL women, remember your big deal about the word ALL and how it can't mean SOME you fucking idiot.

    i said i don't care about these whores that are doing this strictly because they have the "convenience" of abortion. and if you think there aren't whores like that out there then you are kidding yourself.
    How did I generalize women? If women are perfectly capable of making decisions for themselves then why bring up all the bullshit you just did about how they're incapable? What other situations should people not be able to make their own choices about? So you're saying that 93% of all women who have had abortions are whores? so 93% of 1.0-1.5 million women each year in america are whores?



    all this from the person that just contradicted himself?
    is this where you start using words to mean completely different things? Where did I contradict myself?


    first of all the "broken leg" scenario wasn't mine to begin with maybe you should read all of the posts about the topic.
    and yes, if you break your leg you MUST live with it, are you supposed to fade into some magical realm where your leg isn't broken anymore?
    and getting medical attention for an UNINTENDED accidental consequence such as a broken lef isn't the same as killing your unborn child.
    yes everyone knows that skateboarding can end up with a broken leg, but getting a broken leg doesn't REQUIRE skateboarding.
    conceiving a child REQUIRES sex.
    So you shouldn't seek medical treatment for it and let it heal naturally? Getting medical attention for an UNINTENDED ACCIDENTAL CONSEQUENCE is exactly the same in all scenarios. So conceiving a child requires sex, how does that make it not an unintended accidental consequence?



    of all the topics about abortion, you chose the scenario to debate????
    you're a real class act.
    yeah, because I'm the one living in a magical realm where pro choice means giving people all the options and letting them choose which is best for them based on science and not wacky religious definitions and pseudo science bullshit.

  7. #157
    Administrator xsecx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tahir
    i believe your comment about HL and why it's "extreme" was:

    "The fact that you get to judge innocent and punishment, when you're in no position to do either is what makes it extreme view."

    so why is some woman in the position to judge the innocent and punishment for a fetus that didn't "choose" to be there. but the "mother" and "father" chose to take the necessary actions to put it there?
    how ISN'T it extreme?
    How is it extreme to let a woman decide if she wants to be a mother or not? How is an embryo innocent or being punished when it's not a child, or a life?

    because treating a broken leg, doesn't consist of taking a life.
    neither does early term abortion, fetus and embryo's aren't life, they are the potential for life. However both have long standing negative effects, so just because something might be born women should be forced to carry it against their will?

    actually one is murder.
    not quite, but keep it up and one day you'll have your own dictionary.

    because you can't get pregnant by skateboarding. and skateboarding doesn't have the risk of creating a life.
    so people should only have sex when trying to pro create? Or should they just have deviant sex, shit they can't do that either. Shouldn't repress sexual urges either. Can't use contraception because that's unnatural. Well fuck. I guess a couple that doesn't want to have a child just shouldn't have sex because it might lead to pregnancy.



    because one is fixing a boo boo, and the other is taking a life.
    it's not a life, and that boo boo would effect your life a lot less if untreated, so why force someone to have a child against their will?



    because sex has the possibility of creating a life, and therefore YOU are not the only one involved, there is an innocent 3rd party that didn't ask to be there, but because of YOU and YOUR actions, the 3rd party exists and must be given it's opportunity of life without interference.
    except that for that 3rd party to exist and life it has to interfere of the life of the mother, and since an embryo and fetus can't gestate outside of the mothers womb kind of hard to do that without someone being oppressed.

    nobody is into "punishing people for having sex" but if you do the crime you do the time right? same goes with acting irresponsibly with your private parts.
    you do realize that you just said here that you wanted to punish people right? If people act what you deal as irresponsible they should be forced to live with the consequences. That's punishment.

    by your arguments, you must believe that a "father" who doesn't want to take responsibilities for his actions is "okay" with being a "deadbeat" father... it is his "right" right? i mean what if HE doesn't want the child, and it happens on "accident" is he obligated to care for/support this child??? or is he free to go without a care in the world while the mother cares for/supports this child alone?
    actually yes, I think a man at the time of conception should be able to say "I don't want to be a father, if you want to have the kid then go ahead but it's not mine". This is equal rights, and unlike you I don't view women as frail and incapable of making their own decisions or that they need a man around to get things done.

  8. #158
    Token Canadian mouseman004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsecx
    actually yes, I think a man at the time of conception should be able to say "I don't want to be a father, if you want to have the kid then go ahead but it's not mine". This is equal rights, and unlike you I don't view women as frail and incapable of making their own decisions or that they need a man around to get things done.

    I actually completely agree with that. In this world if a woman wants to get an abortion it is her decision, and the man has no say at all. So if a woman has the right to say "i dont want this child, so im not having it" why shouldnt a man be able to say "i don't want anything to do with this child"
    Later Days

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseman004
    The difference is, skateboarding cannot lead to pregnancy or the creation of life. Everything is not as black and white as you make it. An abortion is not simply medical treatment. it is an invasive operation that ends life (or the potential for life). To compare a broken leg to abortion is a ridiculous comparison.
    Actually an abortion is simply a medical treatment. It also doesn't have to be invasive at all in the forms of chemical abortions. Nothing you've said here backs up that it's a ridiculous comparison. Both have risks associated with them, both have the potential of seriously effecting the person involved. How can you force someone to not seek medical treatment for something that they view as negatively impacting their life?

    so to you abortion is just a form of birth control? It is simply a medical procedure that you can have if you accidently become pregnant from sex? Oops look I'm pregnant, thats no big deal, I can just go to the hospital and have an abortion! thats it? Would you compare it to taking tylenol for a headache?
    Abortion is a form of birth control and is simply a medical procedure that you can have if you accidentally become pregnant. If it's not, then what is it? Taking all of your emotions out of it, why wouldn't it be like taking tylenol for a headache? If someone is pregnant and doesn't want to be, why should they be forced to endure 9 months of torture for a child they didn't plan for or want?

    I'm not trying to punish people from having sex, if that were the case I would be against treatment from AIDS or any STI. I'm just saying that an abortion is not something that should be taken lightly. Thats all.
    But you are, you're saying that it shouldn't be taken lightly so that people have to take responsbility for their actions.

    Main Entry: pun∑ish∑ment
    2 a : suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution

    You both are calling for people to receive retribution for having sex and becoming pregnant.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsecx
    Actually an abortion is simply a medical treatment. It also doesn't have to be invasive at all in the forms of chemical abortions. Nothing you've said here backs up that it's a ridiculous comparison. Both have risks associated with them, both have the potential of seriously effecting the person involved. How can you force someone to not seek medical treatment for something that they view as negatively impacting their life?



    Abortion is a form of birth control and is simply a medical procedure that you can have if you accidentally become pregnant. If it's not, then what is it? Taking all of your emotions out of it, why wouldn't it be like taking tylenol for a headache? If someone is pregnant and doesn't want to be, why should they be forced to endure 9 months of torture for a child they didn't plan for or want?


    But you are, you're saying that it shouldn't be taken lightly so that people have to take responsbility for their actions.

    Main Entry: pun∑ish∑ment
    2 a : suffering, pain, or loss that serves as retribution

    You both are calling for people to receive retribution for having sex and becoming pregnant.
    I guess it is just a matter of perspective. To me there is life at conception, thats my view and i realise its debateable so I'm not saying I expect you to agree with me. I still beleive that abortion is wrong, however I am pro-choice because Viv very heartedly made me realise where I was wrong on the issue of "pro life". Despite the fact I disagree, I respect your opinion, but this debate isn't going to get anywhere, and I have already pissed people off too badly the last time I had this debate.
    Later Days

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    Itís funny how all of you on here attack and scrutinize Tahir for trying to have a positive effect on this world. Tahir is living life in pursuit of peace and equality for all the inhabitants of this raped planet, and struggling to end oppression. Itís funny that any of you would attack him for that; at least heís trying to make a difference for some person, some animal, or any being on the planet. What do you people do? Wooopdee fuckin doo youíre straight edge, what has being straight edge ever done for anyone besides yourself. Or maybe youíre vegan but you sit here and support Abortion. I would like to see the fuckin logic there. Of course I really donít know any of you and how you live your lives but from what Iíve gathered from your idiotic pursuits to disprove and attack Tahirís way of life Iím probably not far off. Why donít you wake up, take a step back and look how fucked this world is and try to do somethingÖ. Anything to make a difference.

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    i dont think anyone on here has really "attacked" tahir....it is more of a difference of opinion just like right now i dont agree with what u said about "attacking" tahir
    Eagles may soar, but weasles dont get caught in jet engines!!!

  13. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    Itís funny how all of you on here attack and scrutinize Tahir for trying to have a positive effect on this world. Tahir is living life in pursuit of peace and equality for all the inhabitants of this raped planet, and struggling to end oppression. Itís funny that any of you would attack him for that; at least heís trying to make a difference for some person, some animal, or any being on the planet. What do you people do? Wooopdee fuckin doo youíre straight edge, what has being straight edge ever done for anyone besides yourself. Or maybe youíre vegan but you sit here and support Abortion. I would like to see the fuckin logic there. Of course I really donít know any of you and how you live your lives but from what Iíve gathered from your idiotic pursuits to disprove and attack Tahirís way of life Iím probably not far off. Why donít you wake up, take a step back and look how fucked this world is and try to do somethingÖ. Anything to make a difference.

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    Of course some of us actually believe that Tahir's beliefs and actions are actually having a NEGATIVE effect on the world. The entire idea and concept of hardline is completely illogical and not positive at all, which is what is actually being discussed here. now how do you get from us talking about how hardline isn't positive to no one here does anything positive to make a difference? I always love these rants that come from people "attacking" what was said with general statements but never actually address what they have issue with. I also like to know how you can think that being a vegan and being anti abortion are somehow logical requirements for each other. The second you talk about wanting to help the planet and also how abortion shouldn't be practiced you start to contradict yourself. You want to know how you immedidately make the world a better place? You have EVERY child born on this planet born to parent(s) who wanted and planned for their birth. Once you achieve that goal real change can and will happen.

  14. #164
    Token Canadian mouseman004's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    Itís funny how all of you on here attack and scrutinize Tahir for trying to have a positive effect on this world. Tahir is living life in pursuit of peace and equality for all the inhabitants of this raped planet, and struggling to end oppression. Itís funny that any of you would attack him for that; at least heís trying to make a difference for some person, some animal, or any being on the planet. What do you people do? Wooopdee fuckin doo youíre straight edge, what has being straight edge ever done for anyone besides yourself. Or maybe youíre vegan but you sit here and support Abortion. I would like to see the fuckin logic there. Of course I really donít know any of you and how you live your lives but from what Iíve gathered from your idiotic pursuits to disprove and attack Tahirís way of life Iím probably not far off. Why donít you wake up, take a step back and look how fucked this world is and try to do somethingÖ. Anything to make a difference.

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    So you are pretty much a huge hypocrit. You come on to this site explaining how its wrong for everybody to be "attacking" Tahir (despite the fact nobody is attacking anybody) but you come on here and start calling everybody here idiotic? Don't you see the hypocrisy? You say that its not okay to attack somebody's way of life but you will go ahead and say something like "maybe you're a vegan but you sit here and support abortion. I would like to know the fucking logic there". the point of this post is to prove that you are in no position to judge anybody because YOUR post has no logic because it is full of contradictions and hypocritical bullshit. and also, you have posted twice on a website that has been around since 2003, you clearly dont know shit about this site nor do you know anything about anybody on this site so your point of view means absolutely squat. Thanks for coming out and proving you're the idiot.
    Later Days

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsecx
    I also like to know how you can think that being a vegan and being anti abortion are somehow logical requirements for each other.
    Being Vegan means you abhor the killing of innocent beings.. right?

    how does an un-born fetus not qualify as an innocent being?

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