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Thread: What is hardline?

  1. #166
    Administrator xsecx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    Being Vegan means you abhor the killing of innocent beings.. right?

    how does an un-born fetus not qualify as an innocent being?

    No, being vegan means that you don't consume animal products, it doesn't have any inherit moral beliefs with it that discusses guilt or innocence. Abortions don't happen, for the most part to fetus's either and their guilt or innocence isn't really relevant to whether or not someone drinks milk or eats a hamburger.

  2. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by mouseman004
    So you are pretty much a huge hypocrit. You come on to this site explaining how its wrong for everybody to be "attacking" Tahir (despite the fact nobody is attacking anybody) but you come on here and start calling everybody here idiotic? Don't you see the hypocrisy?
    i never said attacking people was bad. i was just relaying to the kind idiotic people of this board how comical i thought it was that you people would attack someone who is just trying to make a difference in this world.

    Quote Originally Posted by mouseman004
    You say that its not okay to attack somebody's way of life but you will go ahead and say something like "maybe you're a vegan but you sit here and support abortion. I would like to know the fucking logic there".
    its perfectly fine to attack someone because i was clearly attacking pro-choice vegans, because supporting abortion and being vegan dont go hand in hand

    Quote Originally Posted by mouseman004
    the point of this post is to prove that you are in no position to judge anybody because YOUR post has no logic because it is full of contradictions and hypocritical bullshit.
    meh not really

    Quote Originally Posted by mouseman004
    and also, you have posted twice on a website that has been around since 2003, you clearly dont know shit about this site nor do you know anything about anybody on this site so your point of view means absolutely squat. Thanks for coming out and proving you're the idiot.
    i was around back then too dumb dumb, just a different name

  3. #168
    ..... straightXed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    Being Vegan means you abhor the killing of innocent beings.. right?

    how does an un-born fetus not qualify as an innocent being?
    It (fetus) doesn't qualify as life. If veganism is about not killing innocent beings by who's standards is this innocence measured? Theres no steadfast rule of innocence throughout life that we can adhere to that hasn't been created by man or slightly evolved paranoid monkeys. Theres not exactly any solid or cohesive facts here and we are still subject to our own nature so it seems odd to declare guilt at human nature and claim all animal life is innocent and omitting the nature of its nature.
    Others walk the bow, I walk the string

  4. #169
    more than meets the eye xriteousxjamsx's Avatar
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    i ask why do these people (tahir, yourgonnasellout etc) come on to this site and foward comments purely to antagonise everyone, im not saying you shouldnt stand by your own personal opinion, that would be hipocrytical of me (being straight edge and all) to say the least. But they know people are going to react in a negative way and there is only 2 of them and by doing this their just wasting everyone elses time! i think you 2 deserve some timeout in the cool corner for being naughty.

  5. #170
    more than meets the eye xriteousxjamsx's Avatar
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    And yes tahir if you find it neccesary you can add me to that long line of guys you are bagging out in the intro thread.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by straightXed
    It (fetus) doesn't qualify as life. If veganism is about not killing innocent beings by who's standards is this innocence measured? Theres no steadfast rule of innocence throughout life that we can adhere to that hasn't been created by man or slightly evolved paranoid monkeys. Theres not exactly any solid or cohesive facts here and we are still subject to our own nature so it seems odd to declare guilt at human nature and claim all animal life is innocent and omitting the nature of its nature.
    well lets forget about innocence for second and just focus on Life in general. If you're a vegan you dont support taking the life of any being. right? excluding the possibilty that an animal or a human is trying to take your life and you have to kill that being to preserve your own..blah blah blah..
    But you say a fetus doesnt qualify as life. OK, but a fetus has a heart beat at 3 weeks. Most Women dont know they're pregnant til about 6 or 7 weeks. Now you may say that even heart beat doesnt qualify you as a lving thing, but lets take a look at the opposite end of the spectrum. Death. When are you considered dead? When your heart stops beating. If you're life ends when your heart stops that means your life starts when your heart starts beating.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by xriteousxjamsx
    i ask why do these people (tahir, yourgonnasellout etc) come on to this site and foward comments purely to antagonise everyone, im not saying you shouldnt stand by your own personal opinion, that would be hipocrytical of me (being straight edge and all) to say the least. But they know people are going to react in a negative way and there is only 2 of them and by doing this their just wasting everyone elses time! i think you 2 deserve some timeout in the cool corner for being naughty.
    ohh and now you dont have to worry about hearing from Tahir anymore. King straight edge himself, xSecx, couldnt handle a little opposition on his all holy straight edge forum and band him from the site... so now you only have to deal with me being an asshole, well at least til xSecx boots me off

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    ohh and now you dont have to worry about hearing from Tahir anymore. King straight edge himself, xSecx, couldnt handle a little opposition on his all holy straight edge forum and band him from the site... so now you only have to deal with me being an asshole, well at least til xSecx boots me off
    if by opposition you mean someone acting like a 4 year old and resorting to doing nothing but name calling, sure. There are plenty of people who come here with opposing views and very few get banned, and the only ones that do are when they stop arguing and just resort to insulting people. Of course Tahir didn't get banned until he did that, but hey, he's convinced you a lot of bullshit so it doesn't surprise me that you swallowed his bullshit about this as well. If you want to debate, that's fine, but if you're going to act like a 4 year old you're going to get put into time out like a 4 year old.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    well lets forget about innocence for second and just focus on Life in general. If you're a vegan you dont support taking the life of any being. right? excluding the possibilty that an animal or a human is trying to take your life and you have to kill that being to preserve your own..blah blah blah..
    But you say a fetus doesnt qualify as life. OK, but a fetus has a heart beat at 3 weeks. Most Women dont know they're pregnant til about 6 or 7 weeks. Now you may say that even heart beat doesnt qualify you as a lving thing, but lets take a look at the opposite end of the spectrum. Death. When are you considered dead? When your heart stops beating. If you're life ends when your heart stops that means your life starts when your heart starts beating.
    please look up the word vegan and use it correctly.

  10. #175
    ..... straightXed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    well lets forget about innocence for second and just focus on Life in general. If you're a vegan you dont support taking the life of any being. right?
    Tell that to the ALF then! These people are ready to see people die and as we are chosing to forget innocence it seems that there approach to life is inconsistant. For a consistancy to be found you have to take their personal view and judgement of what is and isn't innocent. And the innocence part seems to play a huge part in the approach of hardline also so for arguments sake i'll ignore it but would like to stress its importance in the validity of the discussion focus.

    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    excluding the possibilty that an animal or a human is trying to take your life and you have to kill that being to preserve your own..blah blah blah..
    not being funny but you are forgeting innocence and particular scenarios now so we aren't going to have a conclusive outcome here, if its to make a particular point then fine but i feel by removing these things it steps closer to being simply hypothetical.


    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    But you say a fetus doesnt qualify as life. OK, but a fetus has a heart beat at 3 weeks. Most Women dont know they're pregnant til about 6 or 7 weeks. Now you may say that even heart beat doesnt qualify you as a lving thing, but lets take a look at the opposite end of the spectrum. Death. When are you considered dead? When your heart stops beating. If you're life ends when your heart stops that means your life starts when your heart starts beating.

    Your heart can involuntarily beat after death, i wouldn't say that it makes the corpse alive. And the fetus's heart beat is dependant on the mother, it can't really live independantly. So perhaps your theory would be better applied by saying you are dead when your heart stops beating effectively to support what is medically considered life and you are alive from the point your heart is independantly capable of supporting your own life. Of course its all very vauge - a fetus isn't dead, a paitient of life support isn't dead, they are both at a point that can vaugely resemble life but arguably not enough to deter certain actions of termination. I see you are trying to draw a line between life and death in a different place, understandable from one point of view. But a line has already been drawn, if a line you agree with is in place for everyone someone else will want it shifted elsewhere. Some people believe contraception is just as bad as abortion, some want the ability to have a say what goes on in their body and rightly so. Regarding the law of course a fetus is not considered life although there is much debate to suggest it is, none of this really tallies into veganism at all though. Interesting as it is, its a huge issue on a practice born from human nature but regardless of weather a fetus is considered life or not how does it equate veganism? I mean would you say if a vegan has an abortion or is pro-choice then they are not vegan?
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  11. #176
    ..... straightXed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    ohh and now you dont have to worry about hearing from Tahir anymore. King straight edge himself, xSecx, couldnt handle a little opposition on his all holy straight edge forum and band him from the site... so now you only have to deal with me being an asshole, well at least til xSecx boots me off

    So are you just here to be an asshole? If you owned a site and someone purposely came along to be an asshole and insult you would you really want them around?
    Others walk the bow, I walk the string

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsecx
    please look up the word vegan and use it correctly.
    ok ass hole here we go:
    veg·an /[vej-uhn;. vee-guhn]
    –noun a vegetarian who omits all animal products from the diet.

    but what drives people to go vegan... thats what we're really looking at here. sure some people are vegan because of personal health issues, but most vegans, especially in the hardcore scene, are vegan because they beleive animal life is sacred and does not deserve to be killed for the use of humans..... Am i wrong? So if someone thinks that animal life is sacred is it really too far fetched to think that this type of vegan would think that human life is sacred also. SOOOOOO dont you think that destroying human life would be contradictory to that thought process.


    So now we're back to where life begins. Does it begin when the baby crawls out? or does it began earlier? So straightED I still think that the hearbeat argument holds up. So what! if the fetus is dependent on the mother for life. The baby is STILL dependent on the mother after it is born, with out the mother or someone else to take care of it the baby would die shortly after birth. So would you say that the baby is not really alive until it can fend for itself? Because that is just slightly absurd.

    So if Life starts with a heartbeat then life start 3 weeks after conception. So if a Vegan is a supporter of animal life and human life than then you can see how being vegan and supporting abortion do not go hand in hand.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by straightXed
    So are you just here to be an asshole? If you owned a site and someone purposely came along to be an asshole and insult you would you really want them around?
    nah im not JUST here to be an asshole, im also here to kill time. and yeah i would keep the ass holes around... keep things interesting

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    ok ass hole here we go:
    veg·an /[vej-uhn;. vee-guhn]
    –noun a vegetarian who omits all animal products from the diet.

    but what drives people to go vegan... thats what we're really looking at here. sure some people are vegan because of personal health issues, but most vegans, especially in the hardcore scene, are vegan because they beleive animal life is sacred and does not deserve to be killed for the use of humans..... Am i wrong? So if someone thinks that animal life is sacred is it really too far fetched to think that this type of vegan would think that human life is sacred also. SOOOOOO dont you think that destroying human life would be contradictory to that thought process.
    So you just admit that people's reasons for being vegan differ from your theory and that you are projecting morality on something that doesn't have morality attached to it. And even if you wanted to project morality onto it, it only mentions animals, not humans. And even if you want to project morality of human life being sacred that doesn't equate forcing people to have kids they don't want and ruining the existing human life.


    So now we're back to where life begins. Does it begin when the baby crawls out? or does it began earlier? So straightED I still think that the hearbeat argument holds up. So what! if the fetus is dependent on the mother for life. The baby is STILL dependent on the mother after it is born, with out the mother or someone else to take care of it the baby would die shortly after birth. So would you say that the baby is not really alive until it can fend for itself? Because that is just slightly absurd.
    "life" doesn't begin until birth. the baby isn't dependent on the mother after birth. It's dependent on someone for care, but it doesn't need the mother to live and is able to exist on it's own. Now if it's just a heartbeat, no brain activity and completely dependent on the mother for EVERYTHING, how is it life and not the potential for life?

    So if Life starts with a heartbeat then life start 3 weeks after conception. So if a Vegan is a supporter of animal life and human life than then you can see how being vegan and supporting abortion do not go hand in hand.
    Do you understand that supporting human life and animal life doesn't automatically equate to being against abortion? Especially since you can support human life by being pro choice and realizing that abortion is necessary in this world.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by urgonnasellout
    nah im not JUST here to be an asshole, im also here to kill time. and yeah i would keep the ass holes around... keep things interesting
    and if you decide to just be an asshole then you'll get bounced like tahir.

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