Printable View
So me and my girlfriend were messin around with a oujia board and my daughter that was killed when her mom was 3 months pregnant came to see us.....we were talking to her about if she liked me and her being togther and she said she loved her step mommy lol....she was saying how she needed my girl to save her from some other spirits....am I crazy?
just something i read not so long ago...Quote:
The entities of the lower Astral worlds will frequently revel in
claiming to be Angels, Archangels, famous people or even
God, while others will have no hesitation at all in claiming to
be deceased people known to the Ouija board sitters, in fact
these entities will claim to be anything the Ouija board sitters
wish them to be in order to gain their confidence and by
playing on the Ego.
Because users of the Ouija
board are usually hoping for genuine and useful contacts with
inner level Spirits, they will almost always be deceived by
these lower Astral entities.
Sometimes, this can be quite harmless, and although the Ouija
board users are misled, there is no permanent harm done. There
is a very real danger, however, of making contact with lower
Astral entities with much darker and sinister motives. Such
dangers include a lower Astral entity posing as a deceased
relative. Once the lower Astral entity has been able to convince
the Ouija board sitters of its identity as a deceased relative, it
will often be very manipulative, proceeding to request or even
demand certain things to be done for them, often flattering the
Ouija board users and appealing to their Ego by saying that "I
need help, and only you have the capability to provide it".
I dont mess about with things like that
they creep me out XD
Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teratus
Its a parker brothers board game that was intended to contact your subconcious mind via automatic writing, never intended to communicate to people beyond the grave...its as creepy as a magic eight ball!! Its just a game and just has a load of occult stuff attached, apparently it was more popular than monopoly.
haha nah its just me i like to be in control of my body and actions
I dont like Subconcious events etc it freaks me out knowing there are something going on in my own body that i cant control
I sleep walk sometimes too and tend to wake up in different places in my house and i really dont like it
it worrys me and scares the crap out of me when i go to bed and wake up in the kitchen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teratus
Thats ridiculous, the subconcious mind does things for you all the time, like breathing, are you scared of breathing? its not freaky. But to be scared of a board game based on that is like being scared of doodling on a note pad when you are on the phone?
I dunno :SQuote:
Originally Posted by straightXed
its just my wierd little mind I have always been this way
its a simuler kinda phobia as people who are scared of hypnosis
the idea of being under the influence of someone or something else makes you feel really uncomftable and on edge
things like that just creep me out
like drawing something and not remember drawing it Dejavu's etc
and im not scared of breathing haha thats pretty silly
although i am conciously aware of my breathing pattern every second that i am awake
if it changes suddenly or something like that i am aware of it
you are aware you breath but you do it without choosing too, its not a function that you decide to do conciously luckily. hence why you don't die in your sleep, or are you going to tell me you are concious of your breathing while you sleep?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teratus
I actually said i am concious of my breathing every second i am awake :)
But its not a concious thing and i highly doubt you are concious of it every second you are awake. If you are you would be really abnormal, as we talk about it you will be aware of it but once any thought relating to it is out your mind it will continue without your concious mind playing any part and surely thats scary to you!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Teratus
nah im pretty much always aware of it
it takes quite alot of focus on something else to take my mind off it
thats probably one of the reasons vidiogames dominate my life so much
You are talking shit again, you should stop that, or at least try and be constantly aware of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teratus
I really wish i was
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teratus
You are.
Belive what you want to its obvious i cant prove it on here anyway so this convo's over
I thought you couldn't find out the sex of a baby until the 20-28 week (5-7 month) mark. Hmmm....Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Brown
Anyway, I don't think you're crazy; just easily manipulated. The ouija board is just a game.
Well the fact is you would be the first human like this, completely unique and quite extraordinary. You clearly have very little understanding of how things actually work if you think that you constantly control your breathing by your concious mind and if you think that you never have it out of your mind the whole time you are awake. You can't prove it on here, you can't prove it in person, its simply completely untrue. I really think you have no idea what you are talking about...so perhaps you shouldn't talk about it until you do, when you do get an idea you can start the discussion again. Until then i think you made a good choice to stop partaking in this conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teratus
I never said thatQuote:
Originally Posted by straightXed
all I said was that I am aware of my breathing rythem or pattern
and i doubt i am the only person like this
You said that you are aware of it concsiously every second you are awake, thats purely wrong and shows you are unaware of what you are talking about. There will be many seconds, minutes possibly even hours where your concious mind is paying no attention whatsoever to your breathing. Nest you will be telling me you are aware of every time you blink conscilously...you just talk crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teratus
well like i said i cant prove it so its pointless in talking about it anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by straightXed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teratus
Its pointless because you are talking crap. You could prove that this was as common a thing as you suggest by pointing to others who have this condition of being constantly aware and in concious control of breathing the whole time you are awake. It just simply isn't the truth, if you try to research it you will see that, if it were true you would research it and be able to point me to some evidence or something. I think the issue here is you simply don't really comprehend what is being spoken of when we talk about the concious mind and the sub concious mind. Perhaps you should look into that so you can better understand the simple fact that the amount of time you spend actually conciously being aware of your breathing is hugely minimal and light years away from the amount of time you were suggesting.
I think you not only have a problem in thinking about things you say and with looking into something and researching it, i think you also have a problem with accepting when you are wrong.
dude probably thinks everytime he's gonna blink
I prefer strip poker. Though in my experience, you can uncover far more sinister things playing that,than doing the oujia board !
I once played strip go fish!Quote:
Originally Posted by XDISENGAGEX
That game is rad !!! Go fish anyway !!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
Never played strip go fish..I might try tho :)
i read some things like that too, i wouldnt like to mess around with something like that. I have played the ouija board a few times in the past and had some rather freaky experiences myself. the thought of something using my emotions and manipulating me using my relitives and friends that have passed away makes me feel unconfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by lo0m
I had never heard it being used before as a way to tap into your subconcious mind, that sounds interestesting but again as much as id like to connect with my subconcious i wouldnt like to risk speaking to something nasty 'pretending' to be from myself lol
p.s. go fish is an AWESOME game lol
What basis do you have for a belief that there is anything nasty that contacts people via ouija boards. Next people will be believing that god exists!!Quote:
Originally Posted by x.Xmiss_SmogX.x
because ive done it myself and had experiences before. Yes maybe it was coincidence or other things that can give an explination to what ive experienced but i believe what i believe, and that is i believe in ghosts, or energy left over. People are entitled to have failth in whatever they feel is right and its no ones place to say otherwise, im sure you wouldnt like someone telling you your stupid because you dont believe in god, lucky charms, ghosts, or whatever else people have faith in, so why do you see it necessary to poke fun?Quote:
Originally Posted by straightXed
and for the record i dont believe in god or any organised religion, but i know people who do and wouldnt take the mick out of there choices.
Thats not really much of a basis, senses can be decieved easily and we are all very capable of tricking ourselves, particulalrly when we put ourselves in a more suseptable state. I mean there is no sustainable or quantifiable evidence and its a lot of these experiences are usually easily explained simply with a general understanding of the mind. That is my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by x.Xmiss_SmogX.x
See here lies the problem...you say that other things can give an explanation to these occurances, you are aware of that. You however have no real reason to believe in ghosts and your reasoning for doing so is that you believe what you believe. Sure you are entitled to believe whatever you want, no matter how ridiculous and you are free to ignore evidence that suggests otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by x.Xmiss_SmogX.x
You are entitled to say i'm stupid for not believing in things that have no solid evidence and seem quite unlikely to exist, you are entitled to call the explanations that give light as to what may actually bu occuring when people believe they are connected to the other side stupid. In fact you can call me stupid for not believing in fairies, unicorns and whatever else peoples minds can conjur up. You can call me stupid for being interested in the hows and whys of the behaviour and the psychology that surrounds why people believe something is lucky or why they believe their late relatives is contacting them. You can call me stupid for finding the whole idea of people using this kind of mind suggestion to make money out of those who are prepared to be suseptable enough to believe in the cold reading of mediums and the suggestion of tv evangalists. You can do all that and ignore the substance that actually makes laughing at it a rather silly thing to do. I don't deny anyones right to have faith in these things but just because they believe in something it doesn't and shouldn't automatically become imune from critique or opposing thought. And i was actually not poking fun as much as i was drawing a comparison between believing in ghosts and believing in god. Which, incidently, i do find ridiculous or at least very very unlikely based on the things i believe in, peoples reasoning to explain why they continue to believe is what i find stupid. So if what you believe in points to things that make the idea of not believing in those things seem stupid then go ahead and call me stupid...the things i read don't really declare people to be stupid but rather give quantifiable reasoning as to why what they are beleiving in is not as it seems and has a more logical reasoning. Denying a more plausable and mindful account of things just denies logical thinking and reasoning with utter stubborness and nothing else, nothing solid and to enforce the baseless argument people often act like the faith should not be questioned at all anyway like its somehow a completely unacceptable thing to do. Thats stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by x.Xmiss_SmogX.x
Like i said, i was drawing a comparison between believing in god and believing in ghosts, so based on that, why don't you believe in god? If me finding it strange that you can believe in ghosts and not god and finding a similarity in the faith required to believe in one unexplainable entity to another ammounts to me taking the mick, well then my sincearest appologies for your over sensitive reaction and rather precious and delicate belief that offends so easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by x.Xmiss_SmogX.x
Not that I want to mock you, but don't think the ghosts have commercial contracts with the companies that manufacture those boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by x.Xmiss_SmogX.x
She said she has had personal experiences meaning that she has seen or felt something before, so is that not sustainable evidence in and of itself? Hypothetically, if I have personally seen a ghost, are you going to suggest that it is simply my mind playing tricks on me, even though you have no personal experience with what I have seen or felt?Quote:
Originally Posted by straightXed
not really no.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
I would suggest looking at that as a very probable reason that you think you saw a ghost. I would definitely point you toward studies that offer more reasoning and objectiveness instead of acting like i should just accept your belief and not put my own beliefs on the matter forward. Its ridiculous that we have to somehow tip toe around spiritual and religious beliefs to the point that i shouldn't suggest other more logical reasons for said belief. If after looking at such reasoning you still flat out want to ignore it without entertaining alternative ideas then thats fine. But it is pretty much like closing your eyes and pretending it isn't there.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
I didn't ask you to accept belief without putting your own forward, nor did I say anybody had to tip toe around spiritual or religious beliefs. I am just trying to understand what your idea of sustainable evidence is. There are studies out there suggesting that ghosts, and things of the like do not exist, while at the same time there are studies and evidence out there that suggest the opposite. So if I physically see something, am I supposed to think "oh there is evidence to suggest that what I just saw with my own eyes is not real" and forget that I saw anything at all? And if I look at other reasoning and deem it to not apply to the current situation, that doesn't really seem like I am "ignoring" it, or closing my eyes and pretending it isn't there.Quote:
Originally Posted by straightXed
I never said you said any of those things but was refering to the nature of the response i was given when i drew a comparison between two things. Not sure why you are veering away from that to be honest. But the point remains that i am not saying anyone has to believe what i believe at all am i? I have not suggested forgetting seeing anything at all have i? Very strange that you would suggest i am saying that. If there is evidence to suggest something isn't as it seems i would suggest taking it on board and examining it so it becomes more sustainable. You have to understand i asked what the basis for belief in ghosts is, i mean if i said to you i believe humans can fly and go invisable and even shoot lasers out their eyes and you asked me why i believe that. If i responded by saying because i have seen it are you going to think that is really a sustainable basis for things? Or are you going to be immensely doubtful of my claims? If you then point me to a lengthy and well rounded list of studies that really tackle the problem of why i am able to dellude myself in such a way and i basically refuse to take those points on without providing any form of well rounded counter argument other than "i believe what i believe", would you not see that as closing my eyes to well researched ideas and ignoring them purely because they don't fit with what i currently believe? If not , why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
I think, that in a sensible and objective mind, the studies that suggest ghosts do not exist far out wiegh the studies that suggest they do, further more the studies that suggest they don't seem to have much more depth, are able to encompass far more angles, can execute a much higher probability of being accurate, draw a far more sustainable conclusion and simply don't seem to obscure things as much in an attempt to make a forced conclusion.
So with all that in mind, what exactly is your question, because i have just essentially typed the same thing twice and i fail to see what you are suggesting i have failed to say or do. All i am seeing is you drawing a few of your own conclusions that don't entirely relate to what i have said at all.
Whats the bottom line?
You quoted my comment when you said those things, so I could only assume they were in response to what I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by straightXed
Unless I severely misunderstood what you initially posted in response to Miss Smog, it seemed as though you were suggesting that her experiences were simply the results of other more rational explanations and by beleiving what she believed, it was as if she was ignoring those rational explanations. You dismissed her claims, and to me anyways, tried to make it seem like her beliefs were invalid simply because you did not share them. The point I was trying to make was that just because she beleived she was a part of a paranormal event does not mean that she was ignoring the other explanations that could have caused the event. Perhaps while wieghing those explanations she deemed that what she experienced was indeed paranormal?Quote:
Originally Posted by straightXed
You did not repeat the same thing a second time, there was much more said in this response than there was in your initial response, perhaps maybe by elaborating on your original points I understand better what you were trying to say? And to be honest, I don't believe that anything I asked was off topic. I took your responses and asked questions based on those responses in an attempt to understand more of what you were trying to say. And you have answered my question of what you thought could be considered sustainable evidence, so I understand the point you were trying to make there.Quote:
Originally Posted by straightXed
The bottom line is that I do not agree with your conclusion that believing that you have seen something paranormal, or even believing that ghosts exist, is simply the result of ignoring more rational explanations of an event, or "closing your eyes and pretending the other explanations aren't there". I believe that often there are no rational explanations for certain events. I personally believe in ghosts and the paranormal, HOWEVER, I am a skeptic and if I believe that I have been a part of something paranormal, I will try to find any other possible explanation possible for the event. So if I believe I have seen a ghost, I am not ignoring other explanations, I have just deemed that there aren't other explanations that apply to that particular situation. I am not asking you to take what I say and ignore your own personal beliefs towards the matter, I am simply asking you to not just dismiss my claims by suggesting I have ignored other explanations. Perhaps I took a really roundabout way of saying that, and I suppose I apologize for that, but that is the point I was trying to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by straightXed
Your comments focus was my response to smogs post, i continued to focus and that response as it was the active subject matter. You could quite easily and more accurately assume that i was further discussing the elements of my response and what instigated it as that was what you brought up with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
At this point that seems quite probableQuote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
I was suggesting there are much more solid things to take into consideration before being dismissive and simply having the stance of "i believe what i believe so there". But this was not in my initial response. My initial response was a simply post where i drew comparison and this seemed to light a fire under someones ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
I directly asked her what her basis was, her response focussed more on her having the right to believe whatever she wanted...i never suggested she didn't have that right if you read through it again. But the basis boiled down to her believing what she believes, thats fine but it doesn't really give much of a response as to why she believes it. She even concedes other possibilities and reasons for her experiences, if thats so then why have such a firm belief in ghosts and why make a rant about having the right to believe things when i never said she or anyone couldn't believe it, i just questioned why...seems like an odd reaction to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
I asked about her beliefs, she acted insulted. I dismissed the reasoning of the beliefs as she really didn't bother to answer with validity or maybe just couldn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
Thats why i asked what her basis was, she failed to answer with any kind of substance...you can see that, its still there.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
It is pretty much the same thing, same stance, same viewpoint, same argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
Well can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
I didn't say off topic just that you are veering away from your initial line of questioning which you did veer from as it was to do with my response to her and not focussing on you at all. You haven't put any opinion on the matter of believing in ghosts forward, you are simply discussing my response to her. If you would like to discuss your beliefs of ghosts or even play the part of a believer (a less skeptical one) in order to really test which side of the argument holds more validity, i would happily engage.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
refer to the point i already made in the begining of this post where you switched to the responses i made somehow being focussed at your beliefs which you said was your only option. Of course we both know you haven't really put an opinion forward other than i was wrong in the nature of my response.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
I never said that was my conclusion, i will reiterate once again, i believe that the response i got clearly shows no real effort or desire to take other ideas onboard. I believe that an explanation such as i believe what i believe just seeks to sheild the belief within sme kind of socially enforced idea that its wrong to question spiritual beliefs. That they somehow don't really need to have a legitimate explanation. The attitude certainly does go hand in hand with those that pay no legitimate head to such rational explanations and go on to make rather unrational explanations that skip and dance but completely miss any basis. I would happily read and consider someone who gives time to put forward an actual reasoning why they believe in ghosts instead of just acting persecuted because i asked and start screaming that its their right to believe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
Why can't someone explain this rationally? Why do you believe no one has rational explanations? Even if they are wqrong they can still be rational...on both sides their could and should be rational argument that doesn't hide behind the idea that seeking an answer is somehow offensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
Great, so why do you belive in ghosts? If you exhaust any other rational thought you believe its quite rational to assume its a ghost? if that is correct, why a ghost...if something cannot be explained why does a suitable explanation seem to be the idea of a ghost?Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
Well no other explanations you know of...why isn't it aliens, or somekind of conspiracy? Why is ghosts the answer?Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
But this is of course relevent to you, this ignoring other explanations is not what is initially happening here. You are putting forward what you think and i am questioning things etc. Rather different response to the conversation with smog. You have to realise my response to her was specific to her, i am not saying you are ignoring anything am i? I think you took my response to her to also apply to you but you are not saying the same things she said. This kind of puts the bottom line out the window.
And as it readily visible in the text i have written i have not dismissed your claims but have engaged them and asked you about them. You have not responded with "i believe what i believe" as an explanation or basis which i really hope you can see to be part of a response that really conjured up an impression of not really looking to be open to any other plausible outcome. I mean the reaction i got was that to ask for reasoning was wrong and made a mockery of peoples beliefs in a socially unjust way. This is another element which draws comparison with religious fanatics!Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004
Ok but its a point that didn't need making as the things i said in the posts to smog apply to her post and not to you at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by mouseman004