Can You Be Christian And Straight Edge?

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Originally Posted by xsecx

people aren't comparing them at all, the argument is that the beliefs of one contradict the beliefs of the other. I also don't understand why you think that straight edge doesn't suggest that drinking is wrong, nor do I understand how something could be a "sin" and not wrong.

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Good point. However a comparison must be weighed on some level in order to compare their beliefs; which subsequently would reflect the consistency of holding to Christian beliefs and sxe ones.

Again, I think it all depends on how sxe is viewed. I mean I feel I am familiar with the basic tenets of the sxe lifestyle, but what it means to abstain from drinking is a personal choice. And furthermore, if Jesus drank he was not sxe. However, this does not mean that by holding to a sxe lifestyle one is necessarily committed to viewing Christ as 'bad' or 'evil.' Ultimately, I find that sxe is a phenomenon that is restricted to personal decisions and the punk/hardcore scene. In short, I feel that for the person who is sxe, drinking is not 'wrong' but 'wrong for themselves.' Do you see the difference? I suppose if I were Jesus I would not have claimed since I would be in a situation where drinking reflected a mere necessity of 1st century Jewish culture as well as a less pejorative social stigma.

Furthermore, I think a punk rocker drinking is far worse than say an average joe businessman or construction worker. This is because they're way of life is far different from ours. They essentially live in another world and I suppose if I were not in the scene and the type of person I am I would not have claimed. But I am until death and that is that. And this means that one can be a Christian and sxe (assuming we agree with sxe being restricted to the 20-21 century as well as to the type of scene and lifestyle punkers and ballers enjoy) since drinking is not 'wrong' for everyone, only for those who make the choice to be so. At least that is my take. YOu may think it is wrong for everyone. Well I do not.

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Originally Posted by xmountbrockenx

Good point. However a comparison must be weighed on some level in order to compare their beliefs; which subsequently would reflect the consistency of holding to Christian beliefs and sxe ones.

Again, I think it all depends on how sxe is viewed. I mean I feel I am familiar with the basic tenets of the sxe lifestyle, but what it means to abstain from drinking is a personal choice. And furthermore, if Jesus drank he was not sxe. However, this does not mean that by holding to a sxe lifestyle one is necessarily committed to viewing Christ as 'bad' or 'evil.' Ultimately, I find that sxe is a phenomenon that is restricted to personal decisions and the punk/hardcore scene. In short, I feel that for the person who is sxe, drinking is not 'wrong' but 'wrong for themselves.' Do you see the difference? I suppose if I were Jesus I would not have claimed since I would be in a situation where drinking reflected a mere necessity of 1st century Jewish culture as well as a less pejorative social stigma.

Furthermore, I think a punk rocker drinking is far worse than say an average joe businessman or construction worker. This is because they're way of life is far different from ours. They essentially live in another world and I suppose if I were not in the scene and the type of person I am I would not have claimed. But I am until death and that is that. And this means that one can be a Christian and sxe (assuming we agree with sxe being restricted to the 20-21 century as well as to the type of scene and lifestyle punkers and ballers enjoy) since drinking is not 'wrong' for everyone, only for those who make the choice to be so. At least that is my take. YOu may think it is wrong for everyone. Well I do not.

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So you think drinking is something that is a positive and should be encourage? How does that reconcile with the words, actions and slogans that surround straight edge? I've never met anyone who claimed to be straight edge who didn't believe strongly that the world would be a better place without drugs and alcohol. There is a difference between accepting the decisions of others and condoning/endorsing them. Straight edge is an extreme lifestyle. It's one of abstinence and not one of moderation. What you're talking about describes someone who does not feel strongly about the consumption of alcohol and drugs, so I don't see why someone like that would take one a label like Straight Edge, one associated with a strict lifestyle of abstinence.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

So you think drinking is something that is a positive and should be encourage? How does that reconcile with the words, actions and slogans that surround straight edge? I've never met anyone who claimed to be straight edge who didn't believe strongly that the world would be a better place without drugs and alcohol. There is a difference between accepting the decisions of others and condoning/endorsing them. Straight edge is an extreme lifestyle. It's one of abstinence and not one of moderation. What you're talking about describes someone who does not feel strongly about the consumption of alcohol and drugs, so I don't see why someone like that would take one a label like Straight Edge, one associated with a strict lifestyle of abstinence.

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I didn't say that drinking is a positive thing across the board. Obviously not in my situation. However, in some people's situations in life, I see nothing wrong with it. Its just not for me. Hey, I didn't think that being sxe meant you had to be evangelical about it, or to say that drinking is 'wrong' for everyone. My wife drinks moderately on occasion. You think i am going to think her less of a person for it. Clearly not. She is a better person in many ways than I am. Being sxe does not make me a better person than others, only that for me if I were to drink I would be less of a person. If you don't want to think of me as edge because I 'believe; differently than you, thats fine. Sxe is about action, or personal committments I thought. Not about a belief system. That sounds like a religion to me.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

So you think drinking is something that is a positive and should be encourage? How does that reconcile with the words, actions and slogans that surround straight edge? I've never met anyone who claimed to be straight edge who didn't believe strongly that the world would be a better place without drugs and alcohol. There is a difference between accepting the decisions of others and condoning/endorsing them. Straight edge is an extreme lifestyle. It's one of abstinence and not one of moderation. What you're talking about describes someone who does not feel strongly about the consumption of alcohol and drugs, so I don't see why someone like that would take one a label like Straight Edge, one associated with a strict lifestyle of abstinence.

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Another comment I would like to make. Sxe is an extreme lifestyle. And that is the word for it; lifestyle. However, I feel I am free to 'believe' as I wish about alcohol. And personally I have no problem with it for some who choose to use it responsibly. I'm sorry, the reason I went edge was because, a.) I hated the lifestyle of those I hung around with that drank, did drugs and whored around. And b.) I didn't want to live that life. However, those who drank that I knew were like me; extreme. I am an extreme personality, and people like me should not drink. But I think it is alright for others who live more passive lives. So sxe gives me the edge in the scene and sort of life and person I am. And I think that this is enough to be edge. Not necessarily to look down on all those who do drink. I respect many who do. Some of my favorite authors drank, C. S. Lewis, G. K. Chesterton, the list goes on. And of course Jesus (not an author obviosuly-but in my opinion God in the flesh). These are much better men than me. But if I have any chance at being the best I can be, I feel I have to abstain from alcohol, unlike them. After all, I doubt they liked bowling themselves into crowds of people, screaming at the top of their lungs to the tune of social ills, or punching holes in walls. Thats just me.

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Originally Posted by xmountbrockenx

I didn't say that drinking is a positive thing across the board. Obviously not in my situation. However, in some people's situations in life, I see nothing wrong with it. Its just not for me. Hey, I didn't think that being sxe meant you had to be evangelical about it, or to say that drinking is 'wrong' for everyone. My wife drinks moderately on occasion. You think i am going to think her less of a person for it. Clearly not. She is a better person in many ways than I am. Being sxe does not make me a better person than others, only that for me if I were to drink I would be less of a person. If you don't want to think of me as edge because I 'believe; differently than you, thats fine. Sxe is about action, or personal committments I thought. Not about a belief system. That sounds like a religion to me.

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So do you believe that the drinking of alcohol is something positive and should be condoned and encouraged? Do you believe that the world would be a better place without alcohol? What action do you think straight edge is about? What would be the point of a personal commitment, that you just keep to yourself? I mean, why did all those bands over all these years say the things they did? If it's just about yourself, why align yourself with a label that clearly is about something more than one persons personal belief? i just don't see the point of calling yourself straight edge, if all it is is about you and not about trying to make a difference.

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Originally Posted by xmountbrockenx

Another comment I would like to make. Sxe is an extreme lifestyle. And that is the word for it; lifestyle. However, I feel I am free to 'believe' as I wish about alcohol. And personally I have no problem with it for some who choose to use it responsibly. I'm sorry, the reason I went edge was because, a.) I hated the lifestyle of those I hung around with that drank, did drugs and whored around. And b.) I didn't want to live that life. However, those who drank that I knew were like me; extreme. I am an extreme personality, and people like me should not drink. But I think it is alright for others who live more passive lives. So sxe gives me the edge in the scene and sort of life and person I am. And I think that this is enough to be edge. Not necessarily to look down on all those who do drink. I respect many who do. Some of my favorite authors drank, C. S. Lewis, G. K. Chesterton, the list goes on. And of course Jesus (not an author obviosuly-but in my opinion God in the flesh). These are much better men than me. But if I have any chance at being the best I can be, I feel I have to abstain from alcohol, unlike them. After all, I doubt they liked bowling themselves into crowds of people, screaming at the top of their lungs to the tune of social ills, or punching holes in walls. Thats just me.

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so do you or do you not, believe the world would be a better place without alcohol?

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Originally Posted by xsecx

So do you believe that the drinking of alcohol is something positive and should be condoned and encouraged? Do you believe that the world would be a better place without alcohol? What action do you think straight edge is about? What would be the point of a personal commitment, that you just keep to yourself? I mean, why did all those bands over all these years say the things they did? If it's just about yourself, why align yourself with a label that clearly is about something more than one persons personal belief? i just don't see the point of calling yourself straight edge, if all it is is about you and not about trying to make a difference.

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I don't think it will be any better or any worse. What I do think, which is the point I am trying to stress, is that for some people it is wrong and for others permissable. I don't think it is the responsibility of a sxe person to abolish all alcohol like some 1920's abolitionist.

OK, think of it this way. Some people are allergic to certain substance, such as penicillin. With this in mind, it would be ludicrious to think that it being administered to one that is allergic to it would get any better. However, to someone that is not, it would be beneficial. Now in the case of alcohol, I am not suggesting that it is some medicinal health agent. However, I am suggesting that to some it is poison and to others it is not.

In short, if I were to accept the ridiculous claim that alcohol is bad for all people all the time and that if ALL (not some or most) people drink then they are bad or doing a bad thing, I would exclude a good many people I respect and look up to. Now, it is true that say an overweight person should lose weight for their own health and I could at the same time respect them as a person but not condone what they are doing to their body. But I don't think that even this sort of case would apply. For drinking in moderation for some is no less bad for one's health than say a glass of Mt Dew once a week. And yet I am aware of the fact that it is more about sobriety than healthiness. To this, I say that being 'tipsy' for some is acceptable, and for others, like me, it is not.

Now, my tolerance of others drinking is in no way a diminshment on my sxe principles, I feel. You seem to disagree. You seem to think that sxe principles, as expressed by the majority of sxe advocates, is one that applies to everyone and that the whole of our society, nay the world, should abstain. That may be true. However, if this is the case (which I am in no position to say since all I know of sxe are the guidelines that are generally given as a personal committment not a global effort) then perhaps I am not sxe according to your standards. I find a different set of standards for being sxe, as I have understood them, which is simply one's own abstinence alone; not some unconditional intolerance of its use by all members of socoety in all times, in all places, in all conditions, etc...Thats just not how I understand sxe...perhaps the majority of sxe adherents see it that way. I go by a simple minimalism so to speak.

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Originally Posted by xmountbrockenx

I don't think it will be any better or any worse. What I do think, which is the point I am trying to stress, is that for some people it is wrong and for others permissable. I don't think it is the responsibility of a sxe person to abolish all alcohol like some 1920's abolitionist.

OK, think of it this way. Some people are allergic to certain substance, such as penicillin. With this in mind, it would be ludicrious to think that it being administered to one that is allergic to it would get any better. However, to someone that is not, it would be beneficial. Now in the case of alcohol, I am not suggesting that it is some medicinal health agent. However, I am suggesting that to some it is poison and to others it is not.

In short, if I were to accept the ridiculous claim that alcohol is bad for all people all the time and that if ALL (not some or most) people drink then they are bad or doing a bad thing, I would exclude a good many people I respect and look up to. Now, it is true that say an overweight person should lose weight for their own health and I could at the same time respect them as a person but not condone what they are doing to their body. But I don't think that even this sort of case would apply. For drinking in moderation for some is no less bad for one's health than say a glass of Mt Dew once a week. And yet I am aware of the fact that it is more about sobriety than healthiness. To this, I say that being 'tipsy' for some is acceptable, and for others, like me, it is not.

Now, my tolerance of others drinking is in no way a diminshment on my sxe principles, I feel. You seem to disagree. You seem to think that sxe principles, as expressed by the majority of sxe advocates, is one that applies to everyone and that the whole of our society, nay the world, should abstain. That may be true. However, if this is the case (which I am in no position to say since all I know of sxe are the guidelines that are generally given as a personal committment not a global effort) then perhaps I am not sxe according to your standards. I find a different set of standards for being sxe, as I have understood them, which is simply one's own abstinence alone; not some unconditional intolerance of its use by all members of socoety in all times, in all places, in all conditions, etc...Thats just not how I understand sxe...perhaps the majority of sxe adherents see it that way. I go by a simple minimalism so to speak.

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you're focusing on the first question and completely ignoring the rest. Do you believe that alcohol is something positive and should be encouraged? I didn't ask whether or not you tolerated or even if you accepted the behavior of others. What's the point of giving something a name, like straight edge, if it's just a personal commitment? Why associate with others if that's the case? I also never said anything about unconditional intolerance. There is a distinct difference between accepting the fact that people will use substances and condoning it. I honestly believe that the world would be better place without drugs and alcohol and I have a really hard time understanding how someone could identify with straight edge, with all of the slogans, lyrics, etc , and believe the drinking and drug use is ok.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

you're focusing on the first question and completely ignoring the rest. Do you believe that alcohol is something positive and should be encouraged? I didn't ask whether or not you tolerated or even if you accepted the behavior of others. What's the point of giving something a name, like straight edge, if it's just a personal commitment? Why associate with others if that's the case? I also never said anything about unconditional intolerance. There is a distinct difference between accepting the fact that people will use substances and condoning it. I honestly believe that the world would be better place without drugs and alcohol and I have a really hard time understanding how someone could identify with straight edge, with all of the slogans, lyrics, etc , and believe the drinking and drug use is ok.

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First, i didn't say drug use was OK. It is illegal after all. And as far as your question which you felt I have been avoiding, namely do I believe that alcohol is something positive and should be encouraged, is somethign I can not answer on the grounds that it is a loaded question. It assumes that alcohol is something that has either negative or positive connotations. I take issue with this unnecessary conjunction.

And to answer a couple of your other questions "I didn't ask whether or not you tolerated or even if you accepted the behavior of others. What's the point of giving something a name, like straight edge, if it's just a personal commitment?" Well a personal committment is just that and must a have a name.

"Why associate with others if that's the case? " Because there is a shared common interest that is probably rare and quite uncommon.


"I honestly believe that the world would be better place without drugs and alcohol and I have a really hard time understanding how someone could identify with straight edge, with all of the slogans, lyrics, etc , and believe the drinking and drug use is ok" Well i have a really hard time understanding why someone would think that the world would be better without alcohol. I am pretty sure there have been a great many tyrants that were not alcoholics. And if someone who is sxe feels that the world would be a better place without alcohol then that is their opinion not a necessary condition for being sxe. Being sxe is about a lifestyle, not an opinion about world politics or social ethics.

To contrast your statement, I don't think ridding the world of drugs and alcohol will make a bit of difference. I think ridding the world of pride and selfishness might. So again, sxe, as far as I understand it and not as it is propounded by some, or maybe even many, through the microphones of certain bands, is about abstaining from these things for that person. They are wrong FOR ME, not FOR EVERYONE. If you can not understand how I separate myself from others, just think of it this way...every person is unique...furthermore there are similarities between some persons more than others...these similarities immediately put them in groups...these groups function and behave and act differently than others in other social groups even when subjected to the same diets, situations, life conditions, etc...with this in mind, the best for me is different than the best for you...there are general morals and rules that apply to all...I don't think that this includes alcohol and the like...so, sxe is a specific set of guidelines that govern individuals, not individuality...sxe is a lifestyle for certain humans, not humanity...see the difference...how much clearer can I make myself.

Now I assume you disagree, so where does this leave us? Well I would suppose that you must ask yourself, can someone be sxe who doesn't believe alcohol is bad for ALL people. If so, i have a question for you, why is that? And if one can not, why not?

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Originally Posted by xmountbrockenx

First, i didn't say drug use was OK. It is illegal after all. And as far as your question which you felt I have been avoiding, namely do I believe that alcohol is something positive and should be encouraged, is somethign I can not answer on the grounds that it is a loaded question. It assumes that alcohol is something that has either negative or positive connotations. I take issue with this unnecessary conjunction.

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So what makes drugs different from alcohol? What about tobacco?
I don't see how it's a loaded question at all, something is either something that should be encouraged or discouraged. Does alcohol have negative side effects? Are the negative side effects of alcohol use severe enough that it should be avoided? Or are there positives about it's use should be encouraged?

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And to answer a couple of your other questions "I didn't ask whether or not you tolerated or even if you accepted the behavior of others. What's the point of giving something a name, like straight edge, if it's just a personal commitment?" Well a personal committment is just that and must a have a name.

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If it's personal then it has no baring on anyone else, so naming it is pointless.

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"Why associate with others if that's the case? " Because there is a shared common interest that is probably rare and quite uncommon.

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but you just said taht it was personal, so how could it be a shared common interest? What would that shared common interest be? Just simply being sober? If you see no problems with drugs or alcohol, why even make the distinction?

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"I honestly believe that the world would be better place without drugs and alcohol and I have a really hard time understanding how someone could identify with straight edge, with all of the slogans, lyrics, etc , and believe the drinking and drug use is ok" Well i have a really hard time understanding why someone would think that the world would be better without alcohol. I am pretty sure there have been a great many tyrants that were not alcoholics. And if someone who is sxe feels that the world would be a better place without alcohol then that is their opinion not a necessary condition for being sxe. Being sxe is about a lifestyle, not an opinion about world politics or social ethics.

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wait, so you honestly believe that alcohol isn't a direct contributing factors in anything that's wrong with the world? I honestly am calling bullshit on your now, if you think straight edge isn't about world politics or social ethics you clearly haven't listened to very many edge bands. Straight edge is more than just not doing drugs or alcohol.

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To contrast your statement, I don't think ridding the world of drugs and alcohol will make a bit of difference. I think ridding the world of pride and selfishness might. So again, sxe, as far as I understand it and not as it is propounded by some, or maybe even many, through the microphones of certain bands, is about abstaining from these things for that person. They are wrong FOR ME, not FOR EVERYONE. If you can not understand how I separate myself from others, just think of it this way...every person is unique...furthermore there are similarities between some persons more than others...these similarities immediately put them in groups...these groups function and behave and act differently than others in other social groups even when subjected to the same diets, situations, life conditions, etc...with this in mind, the best for me is different than the best for you...there are general morals and rules that apply to all...I don't think that this includes alcohol and the like...so, sxe is a specific set of guidelines that govern individuals, not individuality...sxe is a lifestyle for certain humans, not humanity...see the difference...how much clearer can I make myself.

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So drugs and alcohol are not contributing factor to crime, violence, abuse, health problems, death and their absence would make no difference? Really? Drunk drivers would exist then? I find this statement completely ridiculous.

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Now I assume you disagree, so where does this leave us? Well I would suppose that you must ask yourself, can someone be sxe who doesn't believe alcohol is bad for ALL people. If so, i have a question for you, why is that? And if one can not, why not?

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I've already asked myself that question long ago and the answer's the same. I cannot reconcile how someone would take an extreme stance on drugs and alcohol and calling themselves straight edge and ally themselves with everyone else and everything else about it and not feel strongly about the subject globally since it does effect everyone and it's simply down to what a person does in the comfort of their own home with no effect to anyone but themselves.

"So what makes drugs different from alcohol? What about tobacco?
I don't see how it's a loaded question at all, something is either something that should be encouraged or discouraged. Does alcohol have negative side effects? Are the negative side effects of alcohol use severe enough that it should be avoided? Or are there positives about it's use should be encouraged?"

I think that there is a third option, namely it isn't the sort of thing that is encouraged or discouraged. I don't encouraage or discourage the eating of meat. If there are negative side effects then these are due to its misuse, not its overall usage.


" If it's personal then it has no baring on anyone else, so naming it is pointless"

It has a bearing on others who hold to the view. Also, I think that abstaining from alcohol and the like, as I've said, is for certain types of people. I am one of those types of people. So while it is personal it also is a preferred lifestyle for one in the punk/hardcore scene; not a wine tester in France or a simple farmer in England or what have you.

"but you just said taht it was personal, so how could it be a shared common interest? What would that shared common interest be? Just simply being sober? If you see no problems with drugs or alcohol, why even make the distinction?"

Its a personal committment rooted in certain types of people that would not only benefit from being sober but are more likely to be immoral when drinking...thats just what I believe.

"wait, so you honestly believe that alcohol isn't a direct contributing factors in anything that's wrong with the world? I honestly am calling bullshit on your now, if you think straight edge isn't about world politics or social ethics you clearly haven't listened to very many edge bands. Straight edge is more than just not doing drugs or alcohol."

I didn't say it wasn't a direct contributing factor, anymore than a secondary cause exists in the collaboration for and of a final cause. But this has nothing to do with being sxe in my view. One does so not because they see it as being dangerous, but because it inhibits one's being the best they can be.

And as far as the bands that speak out against a global effort to rid the world of alcohol, so what? I don't care what they say, for me sxe is about a personal committment rooted in certain types of people that would not only benefit from being sober but are more likely to be immoral when drinking.


"So drugs and alcohol are not contributing factor to crime, violence, abuse, health problems, death and their absence would make no difference? Really? Drunk drivers would exist then? I find this statement completely ridiculous. "

ad hoc. I am not sxe because drinking is dangerous or a contributing factor to crime. Rather, I am because I personally hate to drink and for me, and many others LIKE me (those in the hardcore/punk scene) it is wrong for people like us.


"I've already asked myself that question long ago and the answer's the same. I cannot reconcile how someone would take an extreme stance on drugs and alcohol and calling themselves straight edge and ally themselves with everyone else and everything else about it and not feel strongly about the subject globally since it does effect everyone and it's simply down to what a person does in the comfort of their own home with no effect to anyone but themselves."

Well, all I can say is that we as people are quite different. Sure we have similiarities, but we also have some extreme differences. I think if everyone LIKE ME didn't drink, do drugs or sleep around, THAT WORLD would be better. And while sleeping around and drugs are typically bad for all, I am not sure that I can say that about alcohol FOR ALL people, at all times.

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Originally Posted by xmountbrockenx

I think that there is a third option, namely it isn't the sort of thing that is encouraged or discouraged. I don't encouraage or discourage the eating of meat. If there are negative side effects then these are due to its misuse, not its overall usage.

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Then it's something you think that people should do then, because you don't see any problem with it. This of course doesn't explain why you think alcohol is different from tobacco.

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It has a bearing on others who hold to the view. Also, I think that abstaining from alcohol and the like, as I've said, is for certain types of people. I am one of those types of people. So while it is personal it also is a preferred lifestyle for one in the punk/hardcore scene; not a wine tester in France or a simple farmer in England or what have you.

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Yeah but what you're describing doesn't matter, because it has nothing to do with anyone but the individual and doesn't extend beyond the individual.

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Its a personal committment rooted in certain types of people that would not only benefit from being sober but are more likely to be immoral when drinking...thats just what I believe.

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why are you restricting it just to certain types of people? Why wouldn't everyone benefit from being sober?

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I didn't say it wasn't a direct contributing factor, anymore than a secondary cause exists in the collaboration for and of a final cause. But this has nothing to do with being sxe in my view. One does so not because they see it as being dangerous, but because it inhibits one's being the best they can be.

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So it's a factor, and therefore a negative thing, but somehow has nothing to do with being straight edge? Do you really think that people don't decide what activity they choose to take part in whether or not there is a personal risk attached to it?

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And as far as the bands that speak out against a global effort to rid the world of alcohol, so what? I don't care what they say, for me sxe is about a personal committment rooted in certain types of people that would not only benefit from being sober but are more likely to be immoral when drinking.

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So you accept the fact that yes, to everyone else, but apparently you, that we all agree that the world would be a better place without alcohol.
why would only certain types of people benefit from being sober?

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ad hoc. I am not sxe because drinking is dangerous or a contributing factor to crime. Rather, I am because I personally hate to drink and for me, and many others LIKE me (those in the hardcore/punk scene) it is wrong for people like us.

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Why do you personally hate to drink then? Why do you only seem to care about people like you rather than humanity? Do you feel the same way about drug use, since you completely ignored that the comparison to tobacco and other drugs.

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Well, all I can say is that we as people are quite different. Sure we have similiarities, but we also have some extreme differences. I think if everyone LIKE ME didn't drink, do drugs or sleep around, THAT WORLD would be better. And while sleeping around and drugs are typically bad for all, I am not sure that I can say that about alcohol FOR ALL people, at all times.

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So why is it limited to just people like you? Why are drugs bad for all, but alcohol isn't? Your viewpoint is inconsistent.

No, you can't.

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i think at the end of the day there is no wrong or right way to live your life.
some ppl choose to abstain, some not. its your choice, not the decision of the majority.

its all about choosing what you want to do without other people making up your mind for you.

whether you want to believe in one thing or not, its your choice. why be bonded by rules?
rather live to your own expectations - not other people's.

in all honesty we all contradict ourselves, there is no way around it, no one is perfect we are all contradicting ourselves one way or another.

if all subcultures are meant to be different from society's expectation, why do they, whether they are goth, metal, emo, punk, etc all have their own looks and expectations within? all claiming to be 'different' but they all follow eachother, in dressing, music, beliefs etc...

it think its all Bullsht.

just do what you want to do and let others live the way they want to live.

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Originally Posted by kuro

i think at the end of the day there is no wrong or right way to live your life.
some ppl choose to abstain, some not. its your choice, not the decision of the majority.

its all about choosing what you want to do without other people making up your mind for you.

whether you want to believe in one thing or not, its your choice. why be bonded by rules?
rather live to your own expectations - not other people's.

in all honesty we all contradict ourselves, there is no way around it, no one is perfect we are all contradicting ourselves one way or another.

if all subcultures are meant to be different from society's expectation, why do they, whether they are goth, metal, emo, punk, etc all have their own looks and expectations within? all claiming to be 'different' but they all follow eachother, in dressing, music, beliefs etc...

it think its all Bullsht.

just do what you want to do and let others live the way they want to live.

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why wouldn't or shouldn't someone strive to live as consistently as possible? And why shouldn't other people point out when people are living lies? What people decide to do with it is ultimately their choice but that doesn't mean that the dialog isn't valuable.