Can You Be Christian And Straight Edge?

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04-19-2006, 10:08 PM
xriseupx

Quote:

Originally Posted by straightXed

no one said it wasn't your choice people are just pointing out that in doing so you are saying jesus is wrong

Incorrect. In your perception of sXe, it's wrong. In my lifestyle, I choose not to partake in alcohol... Not good for me. Something I strongly abstain from.
And actually... The bible doesn't mention Christ Himself drinking wine -- he handed it to his disciples at the last supper to represent Him. *shrug*

Quote:

Originally Posted by straightXed

God aslo acknowledges it as a sin and suggests you will go to hell for it, you are actively trying to be part of a load of stuff that negates fundamental points of your religion.

Actually, you are COMPLETELY wrong about this concept. WE ALL fall short of the glory of God, and only by faith in Christ do we enter the kingdom of God. After salvation, we are still sinners -- we are meant to strive to be Christlike, not perfect -- because it is impossible for a mere human (as in human... with a human soul, don't throw the "jesus was a human" shit in my face, either). You do not go to hell for your sins, you "go to hell" for your decision to deny Christ and what He lived for, and to deny that He was the son of God.
I am Christian. I accepted Christ. I am a sinner. I will not go to hell for my sins -- I will be convicted for them otherwise.
[/QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by straightXed

You don't care that you are contradicting yourself continuously by your very lifestyle choices. you don't care that theres a clear and concise argument made and you are happy to be ignorant to it. See i think you do care but you don't like addressing the facts, if you don't care about what is being discussed then why on earth are you posting?

No, the way I live my life actually is in complete agreeance with sXe lifestyle -- my being Christian doesn't negate that, even though you feel it does... You don't have a very clear understanding of Christianity. A very, very obscure understanding. (Your immediate reaction is this = "you don't have a clear understanding of sXe living", but actually I do... I see where you are coming from, but you're not listening to what I'm really saying...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by straightXed

Well people have continually posted "why the fuck not" yet you choose now to answer the question, and the whole thread is the reasons and answers to the question. Thanks for your input hopefully it will at least get you to look at your religion and beliefs a little more critically.

I used to look at Christianity very critically, as I moved on to other faiths, (mostly occult), and then just decided that I didn't believe in God anymore.
Once I TRULY accepted Christ and began to have a REAL understanding of what He stood for, that's when things started becoming apparent to me. My experiences in life, seeing His work in my own life, is what makes me Christian.
My shortcomings are what make me human. My anger, my rage -- whatever the fuck it is -- I am imperfect, and I know it. And maybe being sXe has some sinful aspect to it -- SO THE FUCK WHAT? Did I ever ONCE say I was PERFECT? Fuck no. I'm not perfect. No one who is not of divine spirit is capable of that (i.e. Christ being the only one with a divine spirit, the human imbodiment of God)
But I can tell you one fucking thing, though. It's better for me to be sXe than for me to be a fucking druggie like I used to be. And if loving hardcore and being a part of the scene -- anger, rage and all, is in a manner sinful, so be it. But atleast I'm fucking healthy nowadays, and I actually enjoy life and love myself.

How can you argue with that? sXe lifestyle did a lot of great things for me. The scene gave me something to be a part of that was not what everyone else was doing -- an outlet for me instead of drugs. Don't you think God would rather me be expressing my blind rage at a hardcore show than putting meth up my nose?

Don't you get it?
04-19-2006, 11:01 PM
mouseman004

This debate has been going on for months and nothing has been changed except for some angry or offended people. You seem to feel insanely strong about this, if thats the case you dont need others to agree with you. If you think you can be christian and straight edge, then do it. You dont need approval from anybody. If people disagree thats fine, disagreements are a part of life and sometimes they will never be solved but dont feel like you have to convince everybody otherwise.
04-19-2006, 11:05 PM
atXdawnXweXburn

here is a great idea.

LET THE TOPIC DIE!

nobody is knocking christianity, theyre just pointing out WHY you cant be christian and sXe.

get the fuck over it.
04-19-2006, 11:08 PM
mouseman004

Quote:

Originally Posted by atXdawnXweXburn

here is a great idea.

LET THE TOPIC DIE!

nobody is knocking christianity, theyre just pointing out WHY you cant be christian and sXe.

get the fuck over it.

To be fair though, there are two sides that would have to both let it die.
04-19-2006, 11:34 PM
xriseupx

I'm perfectly willing to let it die...

Agree?
04-19-2006, 11:56 PM
atXdawnXweXburn

im 100% ready to let it die. this is the most redundant and useless thread ever.
04-20-2006, 01:57 AM
SgtD

why would that be a good thing to let the thread die?
04-20-2006, 03:14 AM
straightXed

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

Incorrect. In your perception of sXe, it's wrong. In my lifestyle, I choose not to partake in alcohol... Not good for me. Something I strongly abstain from.
And actually... The bible doesn't mention Christ Himself drinking wine -- he handed it to his disciples at the last supper to represent Him. *shrug*

In a logical perception based on what straightedge is, not what i try to make it be. Not only do you want to change the meaning of christianity you want to change what straightedge has stood for since its inception too. You are exactly the type of person straightedge can do without.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

Actually, you are COMPLETELY wrong about this concept. WE ALL fall short of the glory of God, and only by faith in Christ do we enter the kingdom of God. After salvation, we are still sinners -- we are meant to strive to be Christlike, not perfect -- because it is impossible for a mere human (as in human... with a human soul, don't throw the "jesus was a human" shit in my face, either). You do not go to hell for your sins, you "go to hell" for your decision to deny Christ and what He lived for, and to deny that He was the son of God.
I am Christian. I accepted Christ. I am a sinner. I will not go to hell for my sins -- I will be convicted for them otherwise.

If you know its a sin why to you continue to do it, why do you ignore the teachings and examples set by your god? You are a completely shit christian. And according to the bible those that continue to in this direction of anger shall not inherit the kingdom of god. Why aren't you striving harder to be christlike? And how is jesus not perfect? And you are denying christ by not striving to follow his example, you know anger is wrong and a sin yet you completely ignore your gods advice on this because it doesn't quite fit your personal ideals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

No, the way I live my life actually is in complete agreeance with sXe lifestyle -- my being Christian doesn't negate that, even though you feel it does... You don't have a very clear understanding of Christianity. A very, very obscure understanding. (Your immediate reaction is this = "you don't have a clear understanding of sXe living", but actually I do... I see where you are coming from, but you're not listening to what I'm really saying...)

Well actually i am responding to everything you are saying whilst you have continually ignored what i am saying. You aren't in complete agreeance with sxe if you are in complete agreeance with christianity, the problem is you can't be both without contradicting yourself. You aren't dealing with the facts that you are changing things to suit yourself. You obviously don't see where i'm comming from at all as you continually miss the point because you are way to blinkered to see it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

I used to look at Christianity very critically, as I moved on to other faiths, (mostly occult), and then just decided that I didn't believe in God anymore.
Once I TRULY accepted Christ and began to have a REAL understanding of what He stood for, that's when things started becoming apparent to me. My experiences in life, seeing His work in my own life, is what makes me Christian.
My shortcomings are what make me human. My anger, my rage -- whatever the fuck it is -- I am imperfect, and I know it. And maybe being sXe has some sinful aspect to it -- SO THE FUCK WHAT?

Well the idea is not to sin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

Did I ever ONCE say I was PERFECT? Fuck no. I'm not perfect. No one who is not of divine spirit is capable of that (i.e. Christ being the only one with a divine spirit, the human imbodiment of God)

The divine spirit who was put on earth as an example for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

But I can tell you one fucking thing, though. It's better for me to be sXe than for me to be a fucking druggie like I used to be. And if loving hardcore and being a part of the scene -- anger, rage and all, is in a manner sinful, so be it. But atleast I'm fucking healthy nowadays, and I actually enjoy life and love myself.

You love yourself? Oh dude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

How can you argue with that? sXe lifestyle did a lot of great things for me. The scene gave me something to be a part of that was not what everyone else was doing -- an outlet for me instead of drugs. Don't you think God would rather me be expressing my blind rage at a hardcore show than putting meth up my nose?

So something actively counter to christianity gave you what christianity couldn't, the contradiction deepens with every post you make. I think god would rather you found ways to find peace rather that don't include actively and knowingly sinning, i think its your job as a christian to get as far away from these sins as possible. I'm not saying being sxe isn't better than being a fuck up but its still something that contradicts your faith and religion on many levels. Rather than just saying so fucking what, you should look at ways to live your life more like christ because at the moment that attitude is completely ignoring what christianity is about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

Don't you get it?

I get it, but it doesn't stop it being a contradiction, anyway, i thought you were done with this argument, see its just another example of how the things you post don't ring true.
04-20-2006, 03:16 AM
straightXed

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

I'm perfectly willing to let it die...

Agree?

If thats true why did you say you were done with it and then come back and post again? Is it because you want the last word? Because its not like you raised any valid points.
04-20-2006, 09:17 AM
xriseupx

I've dropped this. As in... I'm done with it. I didn't even read your last post(s), and I'm not going to.
I'm letting it die.
04-20-2006, 09:45 AM
xsecx

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

I've dropped this. As in... I'm done with it. I didn't even read your last post(s), and I'm not going to.
I'm letting it die.

seriously weak.
04-20-2006, 09:48 AM
xsecx

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

Incorrect. In your perception of sXe, it's wrong. In my lifestyle, I choose not to partake in alcohol... Not good for me. Something I strongly abstain from.
And actually... The bible doesn't mention Christ Himself drinking wine -- he handed it to his disciples at the last supper to represent Him. *shrug*

Why do you strongly abstain from it? Do you think alcohol is something that everyone should drink? Do you think that alcohol is something that the world would be better off without? Straight edge is an extreme stance. It's about complete sobriety. It isn't about moderation or even acceptance that drinking is healthy or good for anyone. Your perception of straight edge is one thing and then the word games you play to try and dance around calling jesus wrong is another.
04-20-2006, 10:41 AM
xriseupx

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsecx

Why do you strongly abstain from it?

Former addict... I don't like it. It lends to a less healthy lifestyle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsecx

Do you think alcohol is something that everyone should drink?

Absolutely not... I don't have to like that people drink alcohol, because I don't like it. I just don't spend too much time worrying about what everyone else is putting into their bodies. I'm concerned with *me*.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsecx

Do you think that alcohol is something that the world would be better off without?

Absolutely... I wish that alcohol didn't exist. It doesn't matter though, users will always find other ways to ruin themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xsecx

Straight edge is an extreme stance. It's about complete sobriety. It isn't about moderation or even acceptance that drinking is healthy or good for anyone. Your perception of straight edge is one thing and then the word games you play to try and dance around calling jesus wrong is another.

You're right. sXe is complete sobriety and an extreme stance on substances. I personally can't find a reference where Christ actually consumed wine Himself. All I can find is that he gave it to His disciples at the last supper as a representation of His blood.

I answered your questions... Which is fine... But I won't partake in the argument, though. It's a waste of your time and mine, because we both obviously have very strongly rooted beliefs and opinions that have some differences, and we are both obviously very stubborn. You're just as argumentative as I am. So... We're getting absolutely nowhere in this argument.
*shrug*
Again... Civil conversation's cool... We all need to chill out, including me. So... I'm letting the topic die. I didn't mind answering your questions... But I won't argue anymore.
04-20-2006, 10:56 AM
xsecx

Quote:

Originally Posted by xriseupx

Absolutely not... I don't have to like that people drink alcohol, because I don't like it. I just don't spend too much time worrying about what everyone else is putting into their bodies. I'm concerned with *me*.

You're concerned with you, but then have an opinion on the alcohol consumption of others.

Quote:

Absolutely... I wish that alcohol didn't exist. It doesn't matter though, users will always find other ways to ruin themselves.

It matters in this context though. You just contradicted yourself when you talked about how you had no problem with Jesus drinking alcohol. You have a moral aversion to alcohol existing.

Quote:

You're right. sXe is complete sobriety and an extreme stance on substances. I personally can't find a reference where Christ actually consumed wine Himself. All I can find is that he gave it to His disciples at the last supper as a representation of His blood.

wedding at galea. verse where jesus compares himself with John the Baptist where he says jesus drinks wine and John does not. Your beliefs that any amount of alcohol consumption is wrong is in direct opposition to jesus's words, teachings and actions. This same issue exists with people who are vegetarians for moral reasons. You have a moral dilema when your personal morality is contradictory to that of someone you view as perfect and god.

Quote:

I answered your questions... Which is fine... But I won't partake in the argument, though. It's a waste of your time and mine, because we both obviously have very strongly rooted beliefs and opinions that have some differences, and we are both obviously very stubborn. You're just as argumentative as I am. So... We're getting absolutely nowhere in this argument.
*shrug*
Again... Civil conversation's cool... We all need to chill out, including me. So... I'm letting the topic die. I didn't mind answering your questions... But I won't argue anymore.

Yeah but my opinion is rooted in actual biblical scripture and research, not how I personally feel about the subject. Do you think you can disagree with god? Do you think can, was or will ever be wrong about something?
04-20-2006, 11:26 AM
xriseupx

That's cool dude. I don't really care, man... Awesome that you found scripture where Christ consumed wine. He didn't abuse it. It wasn't recreational as I stated.
The world has turned into a shittier place since then. I wish there weren't psychoactives, including alcohol.
Hell, even grape juice contains a very miniscule level of alcohol... Do you now have a problem with grape juice?
Just how far does this go before you don't consume anything at all? Foods, water, anything... I mean, how do you know if your water doesn't contain some chemicals that you strongly hate?
But, dude... Argue all you want... Keep on... As I've said, again and again... I'll answer questions... I'll explain views... But I won't argue anymore. Go break your leg in 5 places and tell the hospital you refuse painkillers because your edge... That'll be great.
It's a waste of time. I won't argue.
As my last 3 entries have been, I won't argue... And my future entries will not be arguments either. So keep on...

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