is coffee....

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Not really sure how that is funny? I value my life quite highly and also have a healthy amount of misanthropy...the two can coincide quite naturally so i strongly contest that as any kind of logical reasoning as to why you would omit medicine. If you do feel your life has little to no value i can assure you it can easily have value and more than likely already does. You should invest some time and energy into yourself.

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I wont deny myself medical help
but i will deny myself substances like Morphine and alchohol
I'd rather live with the pain than have them anywhere near me
besides that I never want to exsperience any form of drug induced high even if its medical

the only things i do value in my life are my friends and my fantasy worlds brought on by video games and movies

I have litterally no interest in the world and what very little it has to offer
I select my friends carefully
I maybe a misanthrope but i dont hate every single human out there
I love my friends and they are the biggest reason im still here
I wouldnt do anything to hurt them not after everything they have done for me

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Being treated medicinally is not substance abuse...its the complete opposite, its using a substance to aid and help keep healthy.

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<not a flame>
i don't want argue about this, but just to let you know - there are people that would disagree with this.. for instance regarding vaccinations: my company's (i am an employer, not an owner) ex worker was vaccinated against tetanus (lockjaw).. she ended up immobile for 5 years and had to use wheelchair. she has damaged brain and it will stay that way.. i'm not saying that every medicine is useless, rather that every medicine has it's side effects and we propably wouldn't need most of them if we nourish our bodies more healthy... also, if doctor is paid to prescribe you medicine (and they are), he may easily prescribe you more than you really need "just to be shure".. i honestly believe that counts as substance abuse even when the patient is the abused one in the end.. i wonder how many people ended up on valium and similar stuff even when they really didn't need it (or needed much less amounts)?
</not a flame>

i wouldn't refuse narcosis if they had cut my lef off as I wouldn't refuse blood transfer or propably any medical treatment if my life was in real danger. But i don't take ibuprofen when my back hurts. Ibuprofen would propably help but then I could maybe use it also next time, when my head hurts, and so on and then it would become substance abuse. But the doctor won't tell you this. He propably won't tell you about it's side effects either. :-)

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Originally Posted by lo0m

<not a flame>
i don't want argue about this, but just to let you know - there are people that would disagree with this.. for instance regarding vaccinations: my company's (i am an employer, not an owner) ex worker was vaccinated against tetanus (lockjaw).. she ended up immobile for 5 years and had to use wheelchair. she has damaged brain and it will stay that way.. i'm not saying that every medicine is useless, rather that every medicine has it's side effects and we propably wouldn't need most of them if we nourish our bodies more healthy... also, if doctor is paid to prescribe you medicine (and they are), he may easily prescribe you more than you really need "just to be shure".. i honestly believe that counts as substance abuse even when the patient is the abused one in the end.. i wonder how many people ended up on valium and similar stuff even when they really didn't need it (or needed much less amounts)?
</not a flame>

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Missed the point though didn't you...the medicine is being used in a completely dfferent way to recreational drugs...its not being abused and the intentions are to create heallth and alleviate illness and this is the difference. I really fail to see how it is substance abuse if it is being administered with the intention of healing or relieving pain, you are refering to a break down in the way drugs are adminstered and things are misdiagnosed or doctors becoming lazy but that does not make medication substance abuse. Denying a drug on sound reasoning is all well and good, if a doctor prescibes me a course of medication i read up on that medication and don't blindly take it, the point i made however is to flat out deny medicine with no logical reasoning is silly and this makes your whole non flaming, non argument redundant.

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Originally Posted by lo0m

i wouldn't refuse narcosis if they had cut my lef off as I wouldn't refuse blood transfer or propably any medical treatment if my life was in real danger. But i don't take ibuprofen when my back hurts. Ibuprofen would propably help but then I could maybe use it also next time, when my head hurts, and so on and then it would become substance abuse. But the doctor won't tell you this. He propably won't tell you about it's side effects either. :-)

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Well my doctor tells me about them, i ask my doctor and i also look into it myself...to take drugs blindly on a doctors word is as bad as not taking them with some illogical reasoning that suggests medicine is bad.

If your back hurts enough you will take nsaid's, if you are just in mild discomfort then sure, taking drugs like that is not really the best thing...a doctor can't feel your pain so a lot of it is down to you. I am very active and get all kinds of strains and pains but don't use drugs however i do require nsaid's for one reoccuring condition. All you are really ponting towards is that drugs are not sweets and should be respected as having a huge effect on your body, being smart about how you take drugs is all i am hearing here but denying medicine flat out is not smart...and thats the whole point of what i have said...if you or anyone actually disagrees with that then i'd love to know why.

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Originally Posted by Teratus

I wont deny myself medical help
but i will deny myself substances like Morphine and alchohol
I'd rather live with the pain than have them anywhere near me
besides that I never want to exsperience any form of drug induced high even if its medical

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You realise that that could cause you more harm than good? When you are actually in a position that morphine could help keep you alive then tell me you would still make that choice and if you do still make that choice you are an idiot. Is it just those substances or any medicine?

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Originally Posted by Teratus

the only things i do value in my life are my friends and my fantasy worlds brought on by video games and movies

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So do you value the impact of your life ending would have on your friends?

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Originally Posted by Teratus

I have litterally no interest in the world and what very little it has to offer
I select my friends carefully
I maybe a misanthrope but i dont hate every single human out there
I love my friends and they are the biggest reason im still here
I wouldnt do anything to hurt them not after everything they have done for me

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You wouldn't refuse morphine then? As surely to do so in the previously mentioned scenario would hurt your friends, right? Do you hate yourself?

Another question,a friend of mine drinks hempmilk and she says even though its made from hemp its not. Now on their boxes it say no THC but to me its like non alc beer. Yeah its free of "substances" but its still called hemp milk and non alc beer. Is this just the dumbest question or am I right to argue cuz I dunno anymore.

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Originally Posted by pryncessXxX

Another question,a friend of mine drinks hempmilk and she says even though its made from hemp its not. Now on their boxes it say no THC but to me its like non alc beer. Yeah its free of "substances" but its still called hemp milk and non alc beer. Is this just the dumbest question or am I right to argue cuz I dunno anymore.

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to me it's not an issue, mainly because the plant that's used to make hemp products is different from the one people smoke. If it's healthy and it doesn't get someone high, I don't have a problem with it.

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Missed the point though didn't you...the medicine is being used in a completely dfferent way to recreational drugs...its not being abused and the intentions are to create heallth and alleviate illness and this is the difference. I really fail to see how it is substance abuse if it is being administered with the intention of healing or relieving pain, you are refering to a break down in the way drugs are adminstered and things are misdiagnosed or doctors becoming lazy but that does not make medication substance abuse. Denying a drug on sound reasoning is all well and good, if a doctor prescibes me a course of medication i read up on that medication and don't blindly take it, the point i made however is to flat out deny medicine with no logical reasoning is silly and this makes your whole non flaming, non argument redundant.

Well my doctor tells me about them, i ask my doctor and i also look into it myself...to take drugs blindly on a doctors word is as bad as not taking them with some illogical reasoning that suggests medicine is bad.

If your back hurts enough you will take nsaid's, if you are just in mild discomfort then sure, taking drugs like that is not really the best thing...a doctor can't feel your pain so a lot of it is down to you. I am very active and get all kinds of strains and pains but don't use drugs however i do require nsaid's for one reoccuring condition. All you are really ponting towards is that drugs are not sweets and should be respected as having a huge effect on your body, being smart about how you take drugs is all i am hearing here but denying medicine flat out is not smart...and thats the whole point of what i have said...if you or anyone actually disagrees with that then i'd love to know why.

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Ok, I will approach the problem from different angle. Ibuprofen is hardly a cure.. it is a pain reliever (i'm not denying it has propably one single beneficial effect - it is an anti-inflammator - but only with high doses) and numbs the nerve endings in your brain so you don't feel pain - but it's still there - your body is still ill and this pill won't cure anything. it simply turns off your body's natural ability to tell you there's something wrong. It is also an antipyretic which means it can stop your body's ability to take care of the infection itself - fever is a part of body's immune respnose to infection. on top of that, ibuprofen really messes your allimentary tract. and with higher doses, this risk becomes really dangerous. it causes nausea, melena, hematemeza, gastritis, stomach perforation, etc. and these are only acute side effects.. so i don't see how nsaid really helps you or your health..
another problem is with antibiotics.. not only that main part of cures labeled as antibiotics are not really antibiotics (natural) but chemoterapeutics but they also helps bakterias to be more resistent (and they can "learn" such resistency through zygosis). Most of antibiotics effectible in the past are not working now. We created superbacteria out of the bad bacterias but we forgot we have many bacterias in our system that we really need and we risk destroying this subtle system . And even when some antibiotics have quite good selectivity and we can to some degree take probiotics, you're again messing with how the body naturally works.
Not all pills may have side effects, I really don't know. While I agree completely that abuse is more a problem of the person,than of the drug itself ,what i'm trying to say is that I don't think it is safe to trust law to distinguish between drugs as cocaine, weed and drugs seen as cures. most illegal drugs have short-term valuable effects, too.

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Originally Posted by lo0m

Ok, I will approach the problem from different angle. Ibuprofen is hardly a cure.. it is a pain reliever (i'm not denying it has propably one single beneficial effect - it is an anti-inflammator - but only with high doses) and numbs the nerve endings in your brain so you don't feel pain - but it's still there - your body is still ill and this pill won't cure anything.

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It cured the inflamation of my bursa so you are wrong.

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Originally Posted by lo0m

it simply turns off your body's natural ability to tell you there's something wrong. It is also an antipyretic which means it can stop your body's ability to take care of the infection itself - fever is a part of body's immune respnose to infection. on top of that, ibuprofen really messes your allimentary tract. and with higher doses, this risk becomes really dangerous. it causes nausea, melena, hematemeza, gastritis, stomach perforation, etc. and these are only acute side effects.. so i don't see how nsaid really helps you or your health..

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Why the hell are you focussing on one drug when this discussion is about all drugs and someone choosing not to use any drugs flat out based on the reasoning that their father was a drunk. I don't really care about all the things you can say to make a drug sound shockingly bad, i find a lot of it to be pretty much overkill and i know from previous discussions you have an agenda against medicine and don't really care about that either. The facts are you are missing the focus and point in the discussion and missing it by miles. I disagree with your commentry, as i feel it is looking at possible side effects under a microscope and blowing them out of proportion. Not saying those side effects aren't there just that your focus is slightly askew

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Originally Posted by lo0m

another problem is with antibiotics.. not only that main part of cures labeled as antibiotics are not really antibiotics (natural) but chemoterapeutics but they also helps bakterias to be more resistent (and they can "learn" such resistency through zygosis). Most of antibiotics effectible in the past are not working now. We created superbacteria out of the bad bacterias but we forgot we have many bacterias in our system that we really need and we risk destroying this subtle system . And even when some antibiotics have quite good selectivity and we can to some degree take probiotics, you're again messing with how the body naturally works.
Not all pills may have side effects, I really don't know. While I agree completely that abuse is more a problem of the person,than of the drug itself ,what i'm trying to say is that I don't think it is safe to trust law to distinguish between drugs as cocaine, weed and drugs seen as cures. most illegal drugs have short-term valuable effects, too.

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but no one is suggesting using law are they, not sure where you are getting that from, its like you are in a completely different discussion?! The idea here is that to abstain from medicine based on the reasoning given is illogical, dangerous and foolish. If you don't want to talk about that and just want to chat about all the things you have found out about certain medication then it doesn't really serve as a response to what i am saying at all. So maybe try an angle that is in touch with what i am discussing not what you want to type about.

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Originally Posted by straightXed

You wouldn't refuse morphine then? As surely to do so in the previously mentioned scenario would hurt your friends, right? Do you hate yourself?

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Yes i would refuse morphine

all it is is a pain killer anyway
it just gets you wanked high so you dont feel any pain

if its used as a abused substance i will not take it

besides most injerys your body can recover from naturally

painkillers etc i do not use puerly because there is no point
headaches etc go on thier own so i dont use things like ibuprofin etc

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Originally Posted by straightXed

The idea here is that to abstain from medicine based on the reasoning given is illogical, dangerous and foolish.

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Ahh you think i refusce medicne because of my fathers drink and drug problem?

sorry i should be more clear on that

If a substance gets you high or is abused I dont want it in my body
its not because of my father I just dont want anything to do with it
all my father has contributed to this is my hatred towards alchohol
everything else is my own choice

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Originally Posted by Teratus

Yes i would refuse morphine

all it is is a pain killer anyway
it just gets you wanked high so you dont feel any pain

if its used as a abused substance i will not take it

besides most injerys your body can recover from naturally

painkillers etc i do not use puerly because there is no point
headaches etc go on thier own so i dont use things like ibuprofin etc

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But its not an abused substance if its used to aliviate a huge level of pain that if omitted would make certain operations involve more complications. I am not even talking about headaches i am talking about medicine used to aid in serious medical emergencies, you would seriously choose to risk your life over the use of a drug that is administered in a controlled environment by a medical professional and used to ensure your survival rate is greatly increased? You would not really be thinking about your friends in this incident would you?

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Originally Posted by Teratus

Ahh you think i refusce medicne because of my fathers drink and drug problem?

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well as thats what you said, yes i do!

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Originally Posted by Teratus

sorry i should be more clear on that

If a substance gets you high or is abused I dont want it in my body
its not because of my father I just dont want anything to do with it
all my father has contributed to this is my hatred towards alchohol
everything else is my own choice

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well the issue here is that medicinal use is not drug abuse, its focus is not to get you high, its not a recreational use, it is being used to help you, to possibly keep you alive and so to refuse that based on the fact the substance could be abused by someone in a completely different situation is just plain stupid. But when you are actually in a situation when your life could be saved by the use of a drug and you then refuse then i will actually take you seriously...until then i think you just like the sound of refusing all drugs.

Morphine is abused

thousands of people use it every day to get high

and like i said its not nessesary its just one giant pain killer

I'd rather be knocked out have the operation and then deal with the pain
besides the thought of laying there completely awake while doctors are hacking away at me just makes me feel sick

knowing me i'd probably have a panic attack and try and get away
least if i was unconcious i wouldnt know what was going on

and if i did die on the operation table then i woudlnt know about it
and tbh thats the best way to go in my eyes when your unaware of it in your sleep

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Originally Posted by straightXed

its focus is not to get you high.

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Morphine gets you high so you dont feel pain
thats what it does
one of my friends was in hospital a few years back and they put him on morphine he said he coudlnt remember much of anything because he was high

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Originally Posted by Teratus

Morphine is abused

thousands of people use it every day to get high

and like i said its not nessesary its just one giant pain killer

I'd rather be knocked out have the operation and then deal with the pain
besides the thought of laying there completely awake while doctors are hacking away at me just makes me feel sick

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Its not abused when used medicinally, your logic here is completely idiotic.

If its not necessary then why does it increase chances of survival, i think you are being ignorant here.

And how do you propose to be knocked out without using drugs that can be abused elsewhere for recreational usage? You do realise opiods are used to do this right as they stop patients reacting to the trauma that surgary brings? Or are you suggesting they just beat you round the head caveman style? I have no idea why you are focussing solely on being awake through surgary, drugs that can be abused are used in many helpful ways and you, based on your really shabby logic, refuse to take them because some people look to abuse substances. Some people buy cars and look to speed and abuse laws, does that mean that you shouldn't use cars in the intended manner? I have no idea why you can't seperate medical usage of a substance from recreational usage? Sure abusing drugs for fun is bad but they also can be incredibly helpful when used to help people that require medical attention.

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Originally Posted by Teratus

knowing me i'd probably have a panic attack and try and get away
least if i was unconcious i wouldnt know what was going on

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You would only remain unconcious with the use of drugs (drugs that could be abused in the wrong hands) to anesthetize you from the pain. This is why your logic is completely messed up.

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Originally Posted by Teratus

and if i did die on the operation table then i woudlnt know about it
and tbh thats the best way to go in my eyes when your unaware of it in your sleep

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But your friends would know, and if you are going to ensure you do nothing to harm them then i would suggest taking the drugs administered to ensure you are less likely to die.

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Originally Posted by Teratus

Morphine gets you high so you dont feel pain
thats what it does
one of my friends was in hospital a few years back and they put him on morphine he said he coudlnt remember much of anything because he was high

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Yeah, there are lots of different drugs used that do different things, morphine is just one and there are good reasons its used. But like i said, most drugs can be abused so forget morphine, we are talking most medicine here that you are sworn off based on your logic. Its ridiculous. What was your friend in for? Does he now have a dependance on the drug? Would he have prefered to have the procedure with no drugs at all? Are you one of those people that have fillings and teeth extractions without anything to numb the pain?

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Its not abused when used medicinally, your logic here is completely idiotic. If its not necessary then why does it increase chances of survival, i think you are being ignorant here.

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Morphine increases the chances of survival?
thats news to me all i heared was it gets you high so you dont feel pain

either way i wont use it

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Originally Posted by straightXed

And how do you propose to be knocked out without using drugs that can be abused elsewhere for recreational usage? You do realise opiods are used to do this right as they stop patients reacting to the trauma that surgary brings? Or are you suggesting they just beat you round the head caveman style? I have no idea why you are focussing solely on being awake through surgary, drugs that can be abused are used in many helpful ways and you, based on your really shabby logic, refuse to take them because some people look to abuse substances. Some people buy cars and look to speed and abuse laws, does that mean that you shouldn't use cars in the intended manner? I have no idea why you can't seperate medical usage of a substance from recreational usage? Sure abusing drugs for fun is bad but they also can be incredibly helpful when used to help people that require medical attention.

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Gas and as far as im aware gas isnt really used to get high

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Originally Posted by straightXed

But your friends would know, and if you are going to ensure you do nothing to harm them then i would suggest taking the drugs administered to ensure you are less likely to die.

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My friends alreay know how i feel about this and they all support my choices in life and respect my abstinance from drugs
not one of my friends has ever tried to force alchohol or any other drugs on me

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Yeah, there are lots of different drugs used that do different things, morphine is just one and there are good reasons its used. But like i said, most drugs can be abused so forget morphine, we are talking most medicine here that you are sworn off based on your logic. Its ridiculous. What was your friend in for? Does he now have a dependance on the drug? Would he have prefered to have the procedure with no drugs at all? Are you one of those people that have fillings and teeth extractions without anything to numb the pain?

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Morphine and Canabis are the only 2 drugs i know of that can be used medically and that are abused and those are the only two i really avoid

the rest of them i havent heared anything about them being abused so they dont bother me
but if my condition wasnt life threatening then i wouldnt take anything

and my friend had a Hernia operation and no he doesnt have any dependance on it (not sure on spelling)

eww mouth problems haha im luckey i've never had to have anything done to my mouth
and thats just numbs you anyway it doesnt make you high in any way
i woudlnt have anythign like that done though i hate needles i could never have one in my gums

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Originally Posted by Teratus

Morphine increases the chances of survival?
thats news to me all i heared was it gets you high so you dont feel pain

either way i wont use it

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yes it can and that's why you refusing it without really having a clue about it makes you an idiot.

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Gas and as far as im aware gas isnt really used to get high

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well then you aren't that aware then. Besides they don't only use gas and we are still talking about opiods which are abused so however you look at it you have to refuse it based on this weird illogical reasoning. Guess it's caveman style for you.

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My friends alreay know how i feel about this and they all support my choices in life and respect my abstinance from drugs
not one of my friends has ever tried to force alchohol or any other drugs on me

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that's great but irrelevent to the point.

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Morphine and Canabis are the only 2 drugs i know of that can be used medically and that are abused and those are the only two i really avoid

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are you really that naive about what dugs are abused?There are so many drugs that are abused, most pers ription drugs are abused by people looking for a high, get educated on this.
[quoute]the rest of them i havent heared anything about them being abused so they dont bother me[/quote]
this way of thinking is so retarded it hurts. It's like saying if I close my eyes and don't see the problem then it doesn't exist.

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but if my condition wasnt life threatening then i wouldnt take anything

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well you probably would take something so long as you hadn't heard of anyone a using it. Ridiculous.

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and my friend had a Hernia operation and no he doesnt have any dependance on it (not sure on spelling)

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so other people abusing it really had no bearing on it's use.

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eww mouth problems haha im luckey i've never had to have anything done to my mouth
and thats just numbs you anyway it doesnt make you high in any way

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you are serious aren't you? Jesus, what drug group do you think numbs you?

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i woudlnt have anythign like that done though i hate
needles i could never have one in my gums

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you will have a lot of fun in life with all this

Seems your the one having fun with this :P

I dont really care anyway im kinda tired of this and its off topic lol

Sure im not well educated not that it really bothers me
I have a job and make enough money to live on thats all i need

I live a simple life and i avoid problems
the less complications the better in my opinion

I've never had a seriosus medical problem before and im not very likely to as i spend pretty much all my time at home and litterally only leave the house to go shopping and for work

I do occasionally go out and see friends but i completely avoid the night life