Can You Be Christian And Straight Edge?

"So what makes drugs different from alcohol? What about tobacco?
I don't see how it's a loaded question at all, something is either something that should be encouraged or discouraged. Does alcohol have negative side effects? Are the negative side effects of alcohol use severe enough that it should be avoided? Or are there positives about it's use should be encouraged?"

I think that there is a third option, namely it isn't the sort of thing that is encouraged or discouraged. I don't encouraage or discourage the eating of meat. If there are negative side effects then these are due to its misuse, not its overall usage.


" If it's personal then it has no baring on anyone else, so naming it is pointless"

It has a bearing on others who hold to the view. Also, I think that abstaining from alcohol and the like, as I've said, is for certain types of people. I am one of those types of people. So while it is personal it also is a preferred lifestyle for one in the punk/hardcore scene; not a wine tester in France or a simple farmer in England or what have you.

"but you just said taht it was personal, so how could it be a shared common interest? What would that shared common interest be? Just simply being sober? If you see no problems with drugs or alcohol, why even make the distinction?"

Its a personal committment rooted in certain types of people that would not only benefit from being sober but are more likely to be immoral when drinking...thats just what I believe.

"wait, so you honestly believe that alcohol isn't a direct contributing factors in anything that's wrong with the world? I honestly am calling bullshit on your now, if you think straight edge isn't about world politics or social ethics you clearly haven't listened to very many edge bands. Straight edge is more than just not doing drugs or alcohol."

I didn't say it wasn't a direct contributing factor, anymore than a secondary cause exists in the collaboration for and of a final cause. But this has nothing to do with being sxe in my view. One does so not because they see it as being dangerous, but because it inhibits one's being the best they can be.

And as far as the bands that speak out against a global effort to rid the world of alcohol, so what? I don't care what they say, for me sxe is about a personal committment rooted in certain types of people that would not only benefit from being sober but are more likely to be immoral when drinking.


"So drugs and alcohol are not contributing factor to crime, violence, abuse, health problems, death and their absence would make no difference? Really? Drunk drivers would exist then? I find this statement completely ridiculous. "

ad hoc. I am not sxe because drinking is dangerous or a contributing factor to crime. Rather, I am because I personally hate to drink and for me, and many others LIKE me (those in the hardcore/punk scene) it is wrong for people like us.


"I've already asked myself that question long ago and the answer's the same. I cannot reconcile how someone would take an extreme stance on drugs and alcohol and calling themselves straight edge and ally themselves with everyone else and everything else about it and not feel strongly about the subject globally since it does effect everyone and it's simply down to what a person does in the comfort of their own home with no effect to anyone but themselves."

Well, all I can say is that we as people are quite different. Sure we have similiarities, but we also have some extreme differences. I think if everyone LIKE ME didn't drink, do drugs or sleep around, THAT WORLD would be better. And while sleeping around and drugs are typically bad for all, I am not sure that I can say that about alcohol FOR ALL people, at all times.

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Originally Posted by xmountbrockenx

I think that there is a third option, namely it isn't the sort of thing that is encouraged or discouraged. I don't encouraage or discourage the eating of meat. If there are negative side effects then these are due to its misuse, not its overall usage.

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Then it's something you think that people should do then, because you don't see any problem with it. This of course doesn't explain why you think alcohol is different from tobacco.

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It has a bearing on others who hold to the view. Also, I think that abstaining from alcohol and the like, as I've said, is for certain types of people. I am one of those types of people. So while it is personal it also is a preferred lifestyle for one in the punk/hardcore scene; not a wine tester in France or a simple farmer in England or what have you.

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Yeah but what you're describing doesn't matter, because it has nothing to do with anyone but the individual and doesn't extend beyond the individual.

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Its a personal committment rooted in certain types of people that would not only benefit from being sober but are more likely to be immoral when drinking...thats just what I believe.

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why are you restricting it just to certain types of people? Why wouldn't everyone benefit from being sober?

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I didn't say it wasn't a direct contributing factor, anymore than a secondary cause exists in the collaboration for and of a final cause. But this has nothing to do with being sxe in my view. One does so not because they see it as being dangerous, but because it inhibits one's being the best they can be.

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So it's a factor, and therefore a negative thing, but somehow has nothing to do with being straight edge? Do you really think that people don't decide what activity they choose to take part in whether or not there is a personal risk attached to it?

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And as far as the bands that speak out against a global effort to rid the world of alcohol, so what? I don't care what they say, for me sxe is about a personal committment rooted in certain types of people that would not only benefit from being sober but are more likely to be immoral when drinking.

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So you accept the fact that yes, to everyone else, but apparently you, that we all agree that the world would be a better place without alcohol.
why would only certain types of people benefit from being sober?

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ad hoc. I am not sxe because drinking is dangerous or a contributing factor to crime. Rather, I am because I personally hate to drink and for me, and many others LIKE me (those in the hardcore/punk scene) it is wrong for people like us.

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Why do you personally hate to drink then? Why do you only seem to care about people like you rather than humanity? Do you feel the same way about drug use, since you completely ignored that the comparison to tobacco and other drugs.

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Well, all I can say is that we as people are quite different. Sure we have similiarities, but we also have some extreme differences. I think if everyone LIKE ME didn't drink, do drugs or sleep around, THAT WORLD would be better. And while sleeping around and drugs are typically bad for all, I am not sure that I can say that about alcohol FOR ALL people, at all times.

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So why is it limited to just people like you? Why are drugs bad for all, but alcohol isn't? Your viewpoint is inconsistent.

No, you can't.

:D

i think at the end of the day there is no wrong or right way to live your life.
some ppl choose to abstain, some not. its your choice, not the decision of the majority.

its all about choosing what you want to do without other people making up your mind for you.

whether you want to believe in one thing or not, its your choice. why be bonded by rules?
rather live to your own expectations - not other people's.

in all honesty we all contradict ourselves, there is no way around it, no one is perfect we are all contradicting ourselves one way or another.

if all subcultures are meant to be different from society's expectation, why do they, whether they are goth, metal, emo, punk, etc all have their own looks and expectations within? all claiming to be 'different' but they all follow eachother, in dressing, music, beliefs etc...

it think its all Bullsht.

just do what you want to do and let others live the way they want to live.

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Originally Posted by kuro

i think at the end of the day there is no wrong or right way to live your life.
some ppl choose to abstain, some not. its your choice, not the decision of the majority.

its all about choosing what you want to do without other people making up your mind for you.

whether you want to believe in one thing or not, its your choice. why be bonded by rules?
rather live to your own expectations - not other people's.

in all honesty we all contradict ourselves, there is no way around it, no one is perfect we are all contradicting ourselves one way or another.

if all subcultures are meant to be different from society's expectation, why do they, whether they are goth, metal, emo, punk, etc all have their own looks and expectations within? all claiming to be 'different' but they all follow eachother, in dressing, music, beliefs etc...

it think its all Bullsht.

just do what you want to do and let others live the way they want to live.

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why wouldn't or shouldn't someone strive to live as consistently as possible? And why shouldn't other people point out when people are living lies? What people decide to do with it is ultimately their choice but that doesn't mean that the dialog isn't valuable.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

why wouldn't or shouldn't someone strive to live as consistently as possible? And why shouldn't other people point out when people are living lies? What people decide to do with it is ultimately their choice but that doesn't mean that the dialog isn't valuable.

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i agree with you xsecx to an extent.

yes we should strive to live a better quality of life consistently, but its also our right to choose not to.

And yes, I kind of agree to an extent that pointing things out to people can be a positive thing, but when it becomes extreme, it becomes imposing or even right wing.

its like someone who is into vegan lifestyle and someone who is not.
obviously they both have different opinions. but neither is right or wrong.
its just that one may believe strongly about something - the other may not. but they both dont have the right to enforce their opinions on eachother.

and in terms of people's opinions being 'valuable' - would mean (to me anyway) that you can believe in whatever you want to believe - whether it be about religion, politics, or whether guns are right or wrong, we are all entitled to our opinions, values and beliefs so long as it doesnt impose or oppress other people.

the sad truth is we cant change people's minds.

even what we are discussing here on this forum, whatever the heck im rambling on about might not be of value or mean anything to the person next to me, but hey.. we are all entitled to it...

you CANNOT be christian and be straightedge. HAIL SATAN!

I'm an Independent Baptist, and it seems to be working fine for me.

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Originally Posted by FELON500

I'm an Independent Baptist, and it seems to be working fine for me.

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guess you didn't really read anything other than the title..

^ All 52 pages...no...

Busted!

My answer was on topic...right?

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Originally Posted by FELON500

^ All 52 pages...no...

Busted!

My answer was on topic...right?

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not really. could you also please remove bottom part of your messages?

Straight edge is a life long commitment to abstain from all forms of recreational drugs including alcohol and cigarettes, and, depending on where you are from and personal definition of the term, to abstain from promiscuous sex.

These are the only guidelines for straight edge; all other lifestyle choices such as diet, religion, and political views are all optional disciplines often associated with straight edge.

So according to the most common set of straight edge guidelines that I can find. The answer is YES. You can be Christian and Straightedge.

P.S. Dusty...I sent you a P.M. concerning your request about the bottom parts of my post. Please reply when ever you have time. Thanx.

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Originally Posted by FELON500

Straight edge is a life long commitment to abstain from all forms of recreational drugs including alcohol and cigarettes, and, depending on where you are from and personal definition of the term, to abstain from promiscuous sex.

These are the only guidelines for straight edge; all other lifestyle choices such as diet, religion, and political views are all optional disciplines often associated with straight edge.

So according to the most common set of straight edge guidelines that I can find. The answer is YES. You can be Christian and Straightedge.

P.S. Dusty...I sent you a P.M. concerning your request about the bottom parts of my post. Please reply when ever you have time. Thanx.

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Now playing: Youth Brigade - Men In Blue (Part 1)
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Are you sure you read it all? Your reply gives the impression that you didn't.

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Are you sure you read it all? Your reply gives the impression that you didn't.

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Nah, I got bored.

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Originally Posted by FELON500

Nah, I got bored.

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So why not read it and see what people are discussing?

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Originally Posted by straightXed

So why lie and say you did?

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Because I can. (Yes I caught that before you edited it out)

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Originally Posted by straightXed

So why not read it and see what people are discussing?

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Because I don't have to.

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Originally Posted by FELON500

Because I can. (Yes I caught that before you edited it out)

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yeah i misread what you put originaly, i thought you said you had read all 52 pages, my mistake. Thats why in my first reply i was under the impression you had read it all and was wondering why your post didn't relate to what has been discussed thus far.

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Originally Posted by FELON500

Because I don't have to.

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well then theres no point adding to the discussion if you aren't prepared to read what others have to say on it, it kind of ceases to be a discussion then. And seeing as what you are replying with ignores all the rather valid points raised it makes it pretty redundant anyway. But no, you don't have to read the thread but it makes sense to if you wish to enter into a discussion, surely you don't expect people to type out the arguments for and against just for you because you can't be bothered to read the discussion?

This topic was started by Collin. So I really only have to address him when replying. He's the one who asked the question.

1. I think my reply with the most common guidelines of being Edge sticks to the topic and answers Collins question quite well.
2. IMO this thread was hijacked and then spun off topic through various arguments.
3. All these various arguments could have been new topic starters making for a more fulfilling experience for all.
4. Just because I don't want to argue fruitlessly, as apposed to an actual debate, doesn't mean I don't have something of value to say.

Now...these are just my opinions. I should have a right to them like anybody else. I'm not trying to sway anyone from theirs or convince anyone of anything.

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Originally Posted by FELON500

This topic was started by Collin. So I really only have to address him when replying. He's the one who asked the question.

1. I think my reply with the most common guidelines of being Edge sticks to the topic and answers Collins question quite well.
2. IMO this thread was hijacked and then spun off topic through various arguments.
3. All these various arguments could have been new topic starters making for a more fulfilling experience for all.
4. Just because I don't want to argue fruitlessly, as apposed to an actual debate, doesn't mean I don't have something of value to say.

Now...these are just my opinions. I should have a right to them like anybody else. I'm not trying to sway anyone from theirs or convince anyone of anything.

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Perhaps quoting the person you are responding to would be sound advice then! Because it looks like you are just joining in with the discussion as is.

Its really quite interesting that reasons you can't be edge and christian are considered hijacking and off topic by you.

Seeing as the various arguments are in direct response to the subject of reconciling christianity and edge i fail to see a reason for them not to be in this thread. I am unsure also as to how it would enrich your experience if they were not in this thread, would you care to ellaborate?

Well i haven't suggested you have nothing of value to say but your actions of disregarding the points that go against and contradict your opinion does give off a certain impression. Now i understand that that thus far there really hasn't been a sound argument for reconciling christianity and edge so i can see why you feel it would be fruitless but simply ignoring these points makes for an equally fruitless experience.

And again, i have not said you aren't entitled to your opinions, in fact far from it. All i am saying is there are opinions and points raised in this discussion that seem to leave the idea of it being possible to be straightedge and christian highly questionable at best. But like i say, i can understand how it seems fruitless to debate that, i can't see a possible way to reconcile the two and perhaps neither can you.

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Originally Posted by FELON500

Straight edge is a life long commitment to abstain from all forms of recreational drugs including alcohol and cigarettes, and, depending on where you are from and personal definition of the term, to abstain from promiscuous sex.

These are the only guidelines for straight edge; all other lifestyle choices such as diet, religion, and political views are all optional disciplines often associated with straight edge.

So according to the most common set of straight edge guidelines that I can find. The answer is YES. You can be Christian and Straightedge.

P.S. Dusty...I sent you a P.M. concerning your request about the bottom parts of my post. Please reply when ever you have time. Thanx.

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Now playing: Youth Brigade - Men In Blue (Part 1)
via FoxyTunes

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this statement is ironic since the issue is with how christianity views and deals with alcohol and not really an issue about straight edge at all.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

this statement is ironic since the issue is with how christianity views and deals with alcohol and not really an issue about straight edge at all.

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Actually the topic of this thread is and I quote "Can You Be Christian And Straight Edge?"

ROFL..How the hell can it NOT be about Straight Edge when it's written right there in the question??

C'mon man, seriously, I've read some of your other posts. You're a very intelligent and educated person.

"How Christianity views and deals with alcohol" is another TOPIC, maybe related to this, but another issue none the less. I would love to see this issue as it's own thread.

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Originally Posted by FELON500

Actually the topic of this thread is and I quote "Can You Be Christian And Straight Edge?"

ROFL..How the hell can it NOT be about Straight Edge when it's written right there in the question??

C'mon man, seriously, I've read some of your other posts. You're a very intelligent and educated person.

"How Christianity views and deals with alcohol" is another TOPIC, maybe related to this, but another issue none the less. I would love to see this issue as it's own thread.

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the title of the thread is that. The topic is actually the issues that come with christianity's view of alcohol and how it's in opposition with the straight edge view of alcohol use. It doesn't need it's own thread, it just needs you to read more than just the title, since the topic goes far deeper than just the title.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

the title of the thread is that. The topic is actually the issues that come with christianity's view of alcohol and how it's in opposition with the straight edge view of alcohol use. It doesn't need it's own thread, it just needs you to read more than just the title, since the topic goes far deeper than just the title.

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No, actually I think that WAS the problem, by page 36 some how or another I became severely confused.

LOL! Why didn't you just tell me to go back to page one? I'm with ya now.

Except for one thing..I see contradiction on both sides of this argument.

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Originally Posted by FELON500

LOL! Why didn't you just tell me to go back to page one? I'm with ya now.

Except for one thing..I see contradiction on both sides of this argument.

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then that would be a good place to start the discussion then.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

then that would be a good place to start the discussion then.

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It may be a while, I'm gathering facts to back up my points.

A Christian can be sXe, but since sXe is rooted in the non-conservative and non-mainstream hardcore scene, there might be some conflicts of ideology there.

The whole debate about whether Catholics can take communion and be sXe is a whole other can of worms, and a discussion I'm frankly sick of having. It's my personal opinion that if it comes to that, a person would have to choose between sXe and Catholicism, but many others disagree. My opinion is probably tainted by my bias against organized religion, which is of course a contradiction since sXe could be seen by many to be a similar organized commitment to ideals.

^true that!

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Originally Posted by Pilaf

A Christian can be sXe, but since sXe is rooted in the non-conservative and non-mainstream hardcore scene, there might be some conflicts of ideology there.

The whole debate about whether Catholics can take communion and be sXe is a whole other can of worms, and a discussion I'm frankly sick of having. It's my personal opinion that if it comes to that, a person would have to choose between sXe and Catholicism, but many others disagree. My opinion is probably tainted by my bias against organized religion, which is of course a contradiction since sXe could be seen by many to be a similar organized commitment to ideals.

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Did you even read the thread? Why do you think a christian can be straight edge, in light of the scriptural issues brought up in the thread?

yes..........you can be christian and straightedge. Half of you don't even know what the fuck you're saying anyways.

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Originally Posted by Emily852

yes..........you can be christian and straightedge. Half of you don't even know what the fuck you're saying anyways.

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you have very valid points there...please just read the thread from the beginning, you don't have to read it all way through, it's pretty repetitive.
get your shit right.

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Originally Posted by SgtD

you have very valid points there...please just read the thread from the beginning, you don't have to read it all way through, it's pretty repetitive.
get your shit right.

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I read the 1st few pages and all I read was a bunch of dumbasses talking over petty shit that should be pretty much common sense if you're christian.
my shit is right....i was just saying

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Originally Posted by Emily852

I read the 1st few pages and all I read was a bunch of dumbasses talking over petty shit that should be pretty much common sense if you're christian.
my shit is right....i was just saying

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so blasphemy of the lord is petty?

also using the term common sense and christian in the same sentence is hilarious.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

so blasphemy of the lord is petty?

also using the term common sense and christian in the same sentence is hilarious.

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no.....the fact that it should be common sense is what makes it petty

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Originally Posted by Emily852

no.....the fact that it should be common sense is what makes it petty

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so what exactly should be common sense? that you don't know more than your god?

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Originally Posted by xsecx

so what exactly should be common sense? that you don't know more than your god?

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everything you need to know is right in the bible....people keep asking all these questions like "so why is there wine in church etc etc" it doesnt say anywhere in the bible that you have to drink and it doesn't condone getting drunk. it says matthew 24:48 "But if you are evil and say to yourself, 'My lord won't be coming for a while,' and begin opressing your fellow servants, partying and getting drunk, your Lord will arrive unannounced and unexpected, and severely whip you and send you off to the judgement of the hypocrites; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". And in church, you don't even have to drink the wine if you don't want to.
And whoever's saying "but Jesus drank so I don't like him" well have fun with that I know other people that are straightedge and a few people in courage crew who are still friends with people that drink occasionally. As long as you follow what you think or know is right in your heart and still stay strong with your own personal choices, I really don't see how it can be a problem.

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Originally Posted by Emily852

everything you need to know is right in the bible....people keep asking all these questions like "so why is there wine in church etc etc" it doesnt say anywhere in the bible that you have to drink and it doesn't condone getting drunk. it says matthew 24:48 "But if you are evil and say to yourself, 'My lord won't be coming for a while,' and begin opressing your fellow servants, partying and getting drunk, your Lord will arrive unannounced and unexpected, and severely whip you and send you off to the judgement of the hypocrites; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". And in church, you don't even have to drink the wine if you don't want to.
And whoever's saying "but Jesus drank so I don't like him" well have fun with that I know other people that are straightedge and a few people in courage crew who are still friends with people that drink occasionally. As long as you follow what you think or know is right in your heart and still stay strong with your own personal choices, I really don't see how it can be a problem.

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do you believe that drinking is wrong and something that the world would be better off without?

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Originally Posted by xsecx

do you believe that drinking is wrong and something that the world would be better off without?

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i think it's unnecessary.....except in respect of the church for their symbolic use of it but I personally don't even drink it there.

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Originally Posted by Emily852

i think it's unnecessary.....except in respect of the church for their symbolic use of it but I personally don't even drink it there.

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then you're in disagreement with your god, and therefore committing blasphemy.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

then you're in disagreement with your god, and therefore committing blasphemy.

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no? In the bible it said Jesus took his blood and told his deciples to drink it.
That was then. Today the church just carries on that tradition in a symbolic sense. They did it on their own. It's not a sin if you don't drink it.

I've been staying out of this thread for personal reasons, but the last post made me curious. So I went to my bible (New International Version) to look up the Lord's Supper which everyone is talking about (Matthew 26:17-30) because I don't think that the cup that was passed the dinner table was Jesus's actual blood, but wine used as a symbol; thus the argument on this site.

"While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, 'Take and eat; this is my body.'"

"Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered to them, saying, 'Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sings. I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.'"

I thought line 29 was very interesting, stating that Jesus would drink "the fruit of the vine" (wine) until the disciples meet him in his father's kingdom; which could be interpreted as heaven or as some fundamental Christians claim, the second coming. So then could the argument be that it would be wise to not drink wine until humanity sees Jesus again? Christians are just followers of Jesus; he sets the example.

I know that the core of the argument here is if we as individuals claiming straightedge believe that drinking is wrong. And if so, does that belief fly in the face of Jesus's actions? Again, I think this all boils down to interpretation of both the bible and the straightedge lifestyle and ideology. I don't think drinking in moderation is wrong, but it's obviously not the best choice for me.