is coffee....

Morphine is abused

thousands of people use it every day to get high

and like i said its not nessesary its just one giant pain killer

I'd rather be knocked out have the operation and then deal with the pain
besides the thought of laying there completely awake while doctors are hacking away at me just makes me feel sick

knowing me i'd probably have a panic attack and try and get away
least if i was unconcious i wouldnt know what was going on

and if i did die on the operation table then i woudlnt know about it
and tbh thats the best way to go in my eyes when your unaware of it in your sleep

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Originally Posted by straightXed

its focus is not to get you high.

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Morphine gets you high so you dont feel pain
thats what it does
one of my friends was in hospital a few years back and they put him on morphine he said he coudlnt remember much of anything because he was high

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Originally Posted by Teratus

Morphine is abused

thousands of people use it every day to get high

and like i said its not nessesary its just one giant pain killer

I'd rather be knocked out have the operation and then deal with the pain
besides the thought of laying there completely awake while doctors are hacking away at me just makes me feel sick

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Its not abused when used medicinally, your logic here is completely idiotic.

If its not necessary then why does it increase chances of survival, i think you are being ignorant here.

And how do you propose to be knocked out without using drugs that can be abused elsewhere for recreational usage? You do realise opiods are used to do this right as they stop patients reacting to the trauma that surgary brings? Or are you suggesting they just beat you round the head caveman style? I have no idea why you are focussing solely on being awake through surgary, drugs that can be abused are used in many helpful ways and you, based on your really shabby logic, refuse to take them because some people look to abuse substances. Some people buy cars and look to speed and abuse laws, does that mean that you shouldn't use cars in the intended manner? I have no idea why you can't seperate medical usage of a substance from recreational usage? Sure abusing drugs for fun is bad but they also can be incredibly helpful when used to help people that require medical attention.

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Originally Posted by Teratus

knowing me i'd probably have a panic attack and try and get away
least if i was unconcious i wouldnt know what was going on

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You would only remain unconcious with the use of drugs (drugs that could be abused in the wrong hands) to anesthetize you from the pain. This is why your logic is completely messed up.

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Originally Posted by Teratus

and if i did die on the operation table then i woudlnt know about it
and tbh thats the best way to go in my eyes when your unaware of it in your sleep

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But your friends would know, and if you are going to ensure you do nothing to harm them then i would suggest taking the drugs administered to ensure you are less likely to die.

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Originally Posted by Teratus

Morphine gets you high so you dont feel pain
thats what it does
one of my friends was in hospital a few years back and they put him on morphine he said he coudlnt remember much of anything because he was high

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Yeah, there are lots of different drugs used that do different things, morphine is just one and there are good reasons its used. But like i said, most drugs can be abused so forget morphine, we are talking most medicine here that you are sworn off based on your logic. Its ridiculous. What was your friend in for? Does he now have a dependance on the drug? Would he have prefered to have the procedure with no drugs at all? Are you one of those people that have fillings and teeth extractions without anything to numb the pain?

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Its not abused when used medicinally, your logic here is completely idiotic. If its not necessary then why does it increase chances of survival, i think you are being ignorant here.

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Morphine increases the chances of survival?
thats news to me all i heared was it gets you high so you dont feel pain

either way i wont use it

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Originally Posted by straightXed

And how do you propose to be knocked out without using drugs that can be abused elsewhere for recreational usage? You do realise opiods are used to do this right as they stop patients reacting to the trauma that surgary brings? Or are you suggesting they just beat you round the head caveman style? I have no idea why you are focussing solely on being awake through surgary, drugs that can be abused are used in many helpful ways and you, based on your really shabby logic, refuse to take them because some people look to abuse substances. Some people buy cars and look to speed and abuse laws, does that mean that you shouldn't use cars in the intended manner? I have no idea why you can't seperate medical usage of a substance from recreational usage? Sure abusing drugs for fun is bad but they also can be incredibly helpful when used to help people that require medical attention.

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Gas and as far as im aware gas isnt really used to get high

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Originally Posted by straightXed

But your friends would know, and if you are going to ensure you do nothing to harm them then i would suggest taking the drugs administered to ensure you are less likely to die.

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My friends alreay know how i feel about this and they all support my choices in life and respect my abstinance from drugs
not one of my friends has ever tried to force alchohol or any other drugs on me

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Yeah, there are lots of different drugs used that do different things, morphine is just one and there are good reasons its used. But like i said, most drugs can be abused so forget morphine, we are talking most medicine here that you are sworn off based on your logic. Its ridiculous. What was your friend in for? Does he now have a dependance on the drug? Would he have prefered to have the procedure with no drugs at all? Are you one of those people that have fillings and teeth extractions without anything to numb the pain?

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Morphine and Canabis are the only 2 drugs i know of that can be used medically and that are abused and those are the only two i really avoid

the rest of them i havent heared anything about them being abused so they dont bother me
but if my condition wasnt life threatening then i wouldnt take anything

and my friend had a Hernia operation and no he doesnt have any dependance on it (not sure on spelling)

eww mouth problems haha im luckey i've never had to have anything done to my mouth
and thats just numbs you anyway it doesnt make you high in any way
i woudlnt have anythign like that done though i hate needles i could never have one in my gums

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Originally Posted by Teratus

Morphine increases the chances of survival?
thats news to me all i heared was it gets you high so you dont feel pain

either way i wont use it

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yes it can and that's why you refusing it without really having a clue about it makes you an idiot.

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Gas and as far as im aware gas isnt really used to get high

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well then you aren't that aware then. Besides they don't only use gas and we are still talking about opiods which are abused so however you look at it you have to refuse it based on this weird illogical reasoning. Guess it's caveman style for you.

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My friends alreay know how i feel about this and they all support my choices in life and respect my abstinance from drugs
not one of my friends has ever tried to force alchohol or any other drugs on me

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that's great but irrelevent to the point.

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Morphine and Canabis are the only 2 drugs i know of that can be used medically and that are abused and those are the only two i really avoid

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are you really that naive about what dugs are abused?There are so many drugs that are abused, most pers ription drugs are abused by people looking for a high, get educated on this.
[quoute]the rest of them i havent heared anything about them being abused so they dont bother me[/quote]
this way of thinking is so retarded it hurts. It's like saying if I close my eyes and don't see the problem then it doesn't exist.

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but if my condition wasnt life threatening then i wouldnt take anything

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well you probably would take something so long as you hadn't heard of anyone a using it. Ridiculous.

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and my friend had a Hernia operation and no he doesnt have any dependance on it (not sure on spelling)

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so other people abusing it really had no bearing on it's use.

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eww mouth problems haha im luckey i've never had to have anything done to my mouth
and thats just numbs you anyway it doesnt make you high in any way

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you are serious aren't you? Jesus, what drug group do you think numbs you?

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i woudlnt have anythign like that done though i hate
needles i could never have one in my gums

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you will have a lot of fun in life with all this

Seems your the one having fun with this :P

I dont really care anyway im kinda tired of this and its off topic lol

Sure im not well educated not that it really bothers me
I have a job and make enough money to live on thats all i need

I live a simple life and i avoid problems
the less complications the better in my opinion

I've never had a seriosus medical problem before and im not very likely to as i spend pretty much all my time at home and litterally only leave the house to go shopping and for work

I do occasionally go out and see friends but i completely avoid the night life

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Originally Posted by Teratus

Seems your the one having fun with this :P

I dont really care anyway im kinda tired of this and its off topic lol

Sure im not well educated not that it really bothers me
I have a job and make enough money to live on thats all i need

I live a simple life and i avoid problems
the less complications the better in my opinion

I've never had a seriosus medical problem before and im not very likely to as i spend pretty much all my time at home and litterally only leave the house to go shopping and for work

I do occasionally go out and see friends but i completely avoid the night life

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So you think you will avoid serious medical problems because you spend a lot of time at home? Seriously, things just don't work that way.

So to surmise, you avoid any drugs you have heard of that have been abused but are happy to take medicine if its a drug that you are unaware of being abused. The only drugs you really avoid that have any medicinal use is canabis and morphine as you don't know about any of the others? You are not really bothered about your reasoning being logical or having any consistancy and you are going to avoid medical problems by living a sheltered existance and thats about it really.

I hope you can read that back to yourself and hear how it really sounds, theres a lot going on in this discussion and i am sure you are sick of it because your arguments are not stacking up. But the truth is you really need to re think a lot of your ideas and make them better and more cohesive and workable. You have admirable conviction but it is misplaced and you are create issues where there shouldn't be any and ignoring issues which you really shouldn't. I hope in time you change how you think on this and realise you are being quite naive.

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Originally Posted by straightXed

So you think you will avoid serious medical problems because you spend a lot of time at home? Seriously, things just don't work that way.

So to surmise, you avoid any drugs you have heard of that have been abused but are happy to take medicine if its a drug that you are unaware of being abused. The only drugs you really avoid that have any medicinal use is canabis and morphine as you don't know about any of the others? You are not really bothered about your reasoning being logical or having any consistancy and you are going to avoid medical problems by living a sheltered existance and thats about it really.

I hope you can read that back to yourself and hear how it really sounds, theres a lot going on in this discussion and i am sure you are sick of it because your arguments are not stacking up. But the truth is you really need to re think a lot of your ideas and make them better and more cohesive and workable. You have admirable conviction but it is misplaced and you are create issues where there shouldn't be any and ignoring issues which you really shouldn't. I hope in time you change how you think on this and realise you are being quite naive.

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I do agree I am Naive, im also Vain, arrogant, stubbon and shallow lol
not that there tottally bad things its part of what makes me who i am and im all for change being your own choice and nobody elses

but to dub my argument down simply I only abstain from medical drugs that will get you high

fact is you cant avoid drugs some foods even come with minute traces of chemicals found in drugs all drugs are is a mixture of chemicals same as alot of things we use and eat every day

my abstinance is from the effects of a drug induced High thats what i am avoiding


a friend of mine was on prozac for depression
having been through that myself i know how it feels even though i was also given prozac i refused to take it and delt with my depression on my own
if anything taking it would have made me worse because thats what it has done to my friend
she's fine and happy when she under the effects of the drug
but as soon as they start to wear off she comes out of it 10 times worse which has even lead her to 4 suicide attempts last month
right now she is under constant watch by her friends and she has stopped using the drug
and in all fairness being around friends and not tkaing prozac seems to be doing alot more for her

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Originally Posted by Teratus

I do agree I am Naive, im also Vain, arrogant, stubbon and shallow lol
not that there tottally bad things its part of what makes me who i am and im all for change being your own choice and nobody elses

but to dub my argument down simply I only abstain from medical drugs that will get you high

fact is you cant avoid drugs some foods even come with minute traces of chemicals found in drugs all drugs are is a mixture of chemicals same as alot of things we use and eat every day

my abstinance is from the effects of a drug induced High thats what i am avoiding

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Well those do seem like a bunch of nagative character traits to me, perhaps you could explain why they aren't bad?

All well and good you wanting change to be your choice but you don't seem to base your choices on anything cohesive. The point is you are saying that even if a drug that can be abused could save your life you would not take it, that takes your reasoning to the level of idiocy as i have said.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teratus

a friend of mine was on prozac for depression
having been through that myself i know how it feels even though i was also given prozac i refused to take it and delt with my depression on my own
if anything taking it would have made me worse because thats what it has done to my friend
she's fine and happy when she under the effects of the drug
but as soon as they start to wear off she comes out of it 10 times worse which has even lead her to 4 suicide attempts last month
right now she is under constant watch by her friends and she has stopped using the drug
and in all fairness being around friends and not tkaing prozac seems to be doing alot more for her

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So you have had depression, eating disorders etc. you plan to avoid illness by spending a lot of time at home isn't really very fruitful it seems. Anyway, whats your point here? that you can list a drug you don't feel helped you? I would agree that anti depressants are not also a good choice but it doesn't negate the benificial properties that certain opiods can offer. You remain purposefully ignorant to these and no matter what unrelated story you bring up your logic remains idiotic and you remain ignorant.

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Well those do seem like a bunch of nagative character traits to me, perhaps you could explain why they aren't bad?

All well and good you wanting change to be your choice but you don't seem to base your choices on anything cohesive. The point is you are saying that even if a drug that can be abused could save your life you would not take it, that takes your reasoning to the level of idiocy as i have said.

So you have had depression, eating disorders etc. you plan to avoid illness by spending a lot of time at home isn't really very fruitful it seems. Anyway, whats your point here? that you can list a drug you don't feel helped you? I would agree that anti depressants are not also a good choice but it doesn't negate the benificial properties that certain opiods can offer. You remain purposefully ignorant to these and no matter what unrelated story you bring up your logic remains idiotic and you remain ignorant.

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All my point is as I have said before

If the drug gets you High
I will refuse it

The whole debate here was that I dont want to get high ever even if it happens to be a medicaly induced side effect from a powerful painkiller

thats all

If i am ever perscribed somethign i will reserch it very carefully before deciding to take it
if the side effects of the drug are that they get you high then i will not take them thats all

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Originally Posted by Teratus

All my point is as I have said before

If the drug gets you High
I will refuse it

The whole debate here was that I dont want to get high ever even if it happens to be a medicaly induced side effect from a powerful painkiller

thats all

If i am ever perscribed somethign i will reserch it very carefully before deciding to take it
if the side effects of the drug are that they get you high then i will not take them thats all

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I know and the fact that you would hold fast to that even if it were to have negative reprecussions to your health is what makes it ridiculous. I mean whats your reasoning for avoiding drugs in the firsts place? If its because drugs are damaging to your health then great but when in a situation when they could be beneficial to your health its stupid to refuse them. This is where you usually try to argue that the point of these drugs use is tiny and as if it has no real worth as a medical aid but you don't really seem to even understand the things they are used for that well. Butjust out of interest, what constitutes being high?

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Originally Posted by Teratus

All my point is as I have said before

If the drug gets you High
I will refuse it

The whole debate here was that I dont want to get high ever even if it happens to be a medicaly induced side effect from a powerful painkiller

thats all

If i am ever perscribed somethign i will reserch it very carefully before deciding to take it
if the side effects of the drug are that they get you high then i will not take them thats all

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how are you defining high?

High

like what normally happens when you do drugs

the whole illusion of feeling great no matter how bad you are feeling

my whole abstinance from drugs is not because of my health
If I was soo concerned about my body then I wouldnt have such a lame diet nor would i be planning on having scarification and tattoos

I avoid them becuase I do not want things in my body that will effect my perceptions and control

I want to stay in control of my body and as many of its functions as possible
I dont want a drug deciding what i want to do

If anything I am nothing more than a control freak

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Caffeine is pretty harmful, has even been known to cause death.

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Yeah ... if you drink 10 galons! Coffee is not as harmful as you think. It has a short vasoconstrictory (narrowing the blood vessels) and a long vasodilatatory (widening the blood vessels) effect. Caffeine boosts metabolism and latest studies show that it can shift cholesterol production towards HDL (good cholesterol). So if you want to cause death with coffee you have to drink a lot of it for a short time. Combined with tobaco it's harmful altho'.
In the end ... as Ian from Minor Threat said "There's no set of rules" and I think coffee is a personal choice.

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Originally Posted by Krish

Yeah ... if you drink 10 galons! Coffee is not as harmful as you think. It has a short vasoconstrictory (narrowing the blood vessels) and a long vasodilatatory (widening the blood vessels) effect. Caffeine boosts metabolism and latest studies show that it can shift cholesterol production towards HDL (good cholesterol). So if you want to cause death with coffee you have to drink a lot of it for a short time. Combined with tobaco it's harmful altho'.
In the end ... as Ian from Minor Threat said "There's no set of rules" and I think coffee is a personal choice.

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Depending on the level of caffiene really, 10 galons is a ridiculously high estimation of things, there are products available on the market here with a very high concentration of caffiene that 600 ml would be enough to administer a lethal dose, admittedly that is in a product that is sold in 20ml servings but there are coffee houses here that have strong enough coffee to administer a potentially lethal dose of caffiene in as few as eight cups. This is less thatb a fith of a gallon so 10 gallons is way off. But obviously its still just a precautious estimation and a lot would depend on the persons health and ability to handle coffee, people build up an ability to consume more when they constantly expose themselves but other health factors could mean it takes even less.

Sure you can look at some of the things that caffiene has going for it but you are very much ignoring the vast amount of negative attributes to the drug such as increasing stress levels, effecting blood flow and pressure, effects to healthy sleep patterns, disruption to healthy diet, effects upon central nervous system (this tallys with the increased metabolism but also the lowered blood flow), dependence and withdrawal, irritability. There is many more if you want to find them but what is more interesting is that caffiene stays in your system for a good while and having much more than a single cup of coffee will not increase the few benifits it has but will add to the list of negative things it does for you, in short, more than a cup does you very little good. Long term usage of caffiene has a lot of negative effects on the body as any stimulant does, this of course is is the worst problem, constant use over years will constantly be taking its toll on people. Accumulative damage does add up and will often catch you up so this does negate the idea of having to drink a lot in a short time.

All the positives that caffiene gives can be found in other things and these are often things that won't have the negative things that go along with caffiene. I changed my metabolic rate by simply being more active and training my body and understanding the effects of nutrition (eating the right foods at the right times in accordance with what my body needs).

I will say that quoting ian mackaye is a very tired thing to do and does make your argument lose value and the last point. Ian was just a guy like anyone else here, he is not some quotable figure to be given any more respect than anyone else here, i don't take his words as anything to be any more noteworthy than the words of yourself. The quote actually doesn't negate any of what i said though, i am simply suggesting people examine caffiene use, its necessisty, how it fits with a stance against recreational drug use, how you could reconcile caffiene use whilst being against all other drugs in terms of having a consistant viewpoint. Thats not me giving rules its just urging people to think about it more and question things.