Can You Be Christian And Straight Edge?

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

So here is where I stand. I am not christian, I do not know anything about the bible or Jesus. My problem are the guidelines that are invented to make Straight Edge an exclusive thing. if it makes you feel good telling people that their beleifs are stupid and that they cant be a part of your club, then hey, whatever floats your boat. If it helps you sleep at night feeling superior to others, then go right ahead.

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nobodys claiming to be superior to anybody

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

so logically you are saying that I cant be friends with somebody who is not edge because then im supporting drinking?

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no. he is saying that if you dont support drinking, you are also saying that Jesus was wrong

in order to be a devout christian you have to beleive that Jesus is Salvation. You dont have to beleive that Jesus was perfect

My father is my role model. He drinks, does that mean i cannot be edge?

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

in order to be a devout christian you have to beleive that Jesus is Salvation. You dont have to beleive that Jesus was perfect

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jesus being the son of god and part of the holy trinity (wich means he was part of god) cant be wrong... because god is perfect.

if you think jesus was wrong you are saying that god is wrong
and if you believe that god is wrong, you are not christian

god is not perfect and to think that is naiive. but this debate is going nowhere because neither of us will ever change our opinions. So I guess because some kids on a website say i'm not edge, i guess im just clean. have fun with your label

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

My father is my role model. He drinks, does that mean i cannot be edge?

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no. that means that if you consider that drinking is wrong, you dont really consider your father as a good role model

So really to be edge I have to look down on everybody who drinks?

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

So really to be edge I have to look down on everybody who drinks?

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no. you have to think that is wrong to do drugs

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

god is not perfect and to think that is naiive. but this debate is going nowhere because neither of us will ever change our opinions. So I guess because some kids on a website say i'm not edge, i guess im just clean. have fun with your label

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why is not god perfect? please give us an example

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

in order to be a devout christian you have to beleive that Jesus is Salvation. You dont have to beleive that Jesus was perfect

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How don't you? Jesus was God, god is perfect, if yopu say God is inperfect in some way, and that you are right on even one marret, you put yourself above God, and I don't think anyone has to be a Christian to know that is blasphemy, on a pretty hig level.

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

god is not perfect and to think that is naiive. but this debate is going nowhere because neither of us will ever change our opinions. So I guess because some kids on a website say i'm not edge, i guess im just clean. have fun with your label

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In your opinion it might be naive to think of God as perfect, but as a Christian, it's the most important belief to have.

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

so logically you are saying that I cant be friends with somebody who is not edge because then im supporting drinking?

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can you read and comprehend english?

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

god is not perfect and to think that is naiive. but this debate is going nowhere because neither of us will ever change our opinions. So I guess because some kids on a website say i'm not edge, i guess im just clean. have fun with your label

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you seriously have no understanding of the subject at hand, can't read and are honestly pretty ignorant on the entire subject you're trying to talk about. god by definition is perfect and who's actions have to be right, by the very definition of what god is. this goes for any god. you however don't appear to even have a basic understanding of religion or logic.

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

in order to be a devout christian you have to beleive that Jesus is Salvation. You dont have to beleive that Jesus was perfect

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"So here is where I stand. I am not christian, I do not know anything about the bible or Jesus."

is this all you guys do? just gang up and make personal attacks on people just because they don't believe the exact same thing you do? that's really lame. grow up and learn to accept the fact that everybody doesn't have to think like you do. i believe in a perfect god with a perfect son. i believe that drinking is wrong. but wine is much different now than it was then. learn some history. as to jesus having a lover, that is talked about in the gnostic gospel of phillip. i have no problem with the idea that jesus could have been married. but i also have done history and i know that the books that were chosen by Constantine to be in the bible were chosen because they showed the more spiritual aspects of jesus. i believe jesus was fully god and fully man. i believe he was crucified, dead, put in the tomb, and rose from the dead after three days, and later ascended into heaven. don't tell me what i can or can't do, or what i can and can't believe.

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Originally Posted by collin

is this all you guys do? just gang up and make personal attacks on people just because they don't believe the exact same thing you do? that's really lame. grow up and learn to accept the fact that everybody doesn't have to think like you do. i believe in a perfect god with a perfect son. i believe that drinking is wrong. but wine is much different now than it was then. learn some history. as to jesus having a lover, that is talked about in the gnostic gospel of phillip. i have no problem with the idea that jesus could have been married. but i also have done history and i know that the books that were chosen by Constantine to be in the bible were chosen because they showed the more spiritual aspects of jesus. i believe jesus was fully god and fully man. i believe he was crucified, dead, put in the tomb, and rose from the dead after three days, and later ascended into heaven. don't tell me what i can or can't do, or what i can and can't believe.

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no we dont, if you actually try to read you will notice that there are only questions, answers, and logic

and none of the things you said can explain why you think that god is wrong and perfect

Jesus Christ was human. Humans have faults, that is written in the bible. Call me illiterate, gang up on me and attack me because you think you are better than me. But you have no right deciding who is or is not edge, you have no right to tell somebody that because he has different beleifs than you, he isnt edge.

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Originally Posted by collin

is this all you guys do? just gang up and make personal attacks on people just because they don't believe the exact same thing you do? that's really lame. grow up and learn to accept the fact that everybody doesn't have to think like you do. i believe in a perfect god with a perfect son. i believe that drinking is wrong. but wine is much different now than it was then. learn some history. as to jesus having a lover, that is talked about in the gnostic gospel of phillip. i have no problem with the idea that jesus could have been married. but i also have done history and i know that the books that were chosen by Constantine to be in the bible were chosen because they showed the more spiritual aspects of jesus. i believe jesus was fully god and fully man. i believe he was crucified, dead, put in the tomb, and rose from the dead after three days, and later ascended into heaven. don't tell me what i can or can't do, or what i can and can't believe.

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ok, so then where historically does it say that wine was different? You believe that drinking is wrong, and that jesus is therefore wrong for drinking. IF you believe he is fully god then you would then also have to believe that he is perfect, not perfect of the time or the situation, but perfect. There is a MAJOR philosophical difference between christianity and the beliefs that you are claiming within straight edge. A religion that puts huge symbolism into wine and a group of people against the consumption of alcohol. Your god and your religion are telling you wht you can and can't do,you're just not paying attention.

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

Jesus Christ was human. Humans have faults, that is written in the bible. Call me illiterate, gang up on me and attack me because you think you are better than me. But you have no right deciding who is or is not edge, you have no right to tell somebody that because he has different beleifs than you, he isnt edge.

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wait, do you know nothing about jesus and the bible or not? You also somehow think we're the ones making this decision. The issue here is christians believing that drinking alcohol is wrong, not straight edge.

The unitarians are highly linked with AA. Many of them beleive drinking is wrong and in fact they serve juice at communion instead of wine. Does that make them less christian?

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

The unitarians are highly linked with AA. Many of them beleive drinking is wrong and in fact they serve juice at communion instead of wine. Does that make them less christian?

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uh. the unitarian church isn't christian just as it isn't buddhist or muslim or jewish or xyz. and your ignorance aside, serving grape juice over wine isn't the issue. The issue at hand is that Jesus drank alcohol. There is are historical, biblical and cultural reasons to believe this. Jesus is supposedly the son of god and therefore perfect. Jesus was a perfect human that all christians should strive to be like. Now the problem comes in when you put yourself ABOVE god by stating that you are right about something where god was wrong. Now that causes a conflict, because a follower of god can never be above god, let alone correct god. That's a major issue.

Okay, suppose I see your point. that then raises another question. In order to be edge would I have to see myself above those who drink?

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

Okay, suppose I see your point. that then raises another question. In order to be edge would I have to see myself above those who drink?

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same rules don't apply to people. it simply means you disagree with them. people can be wrong, god can't. now if you want to think that you're right and other people are wrong makes you better than them, then that's your call.

I am not a christian, nor do I follow any form of organised religion, so I am sorry if you feel I have wasted your time. I guess I am just getting sick of being told (or others being told) that you cant be edge if...(insert reason here). There is always a reason and it seems to get tougher and tougher to call yourself edge every day and that sucks. The point of edge is to not pollute your body, in my opinion it has no precedence over what others want to do with their own bodies. I suppose if thats wrong I'm not edge

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

I am not a christian, nor do I follow any form of organised religion, so I am sorry if you feel I have waisted your time. I guess I am just getting sick of being told (or others being told) that you cant be edge if...(insert reason here). There is always a reason and it seems to get tougher and tougher to call yourself edge every day and that sucks. The point of edge is to not pollute your body, in my opinion it has no precedence over what others want to do with their own bodies. I suppose if thats wrong I'm not edge

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yeah, but the whole point of this discussion is for people to live in accordance to their beliefs and not hold onto labels for the sake of it. IF you're going to be a christian, then you should be a real christian and live in full accordance to those beliefs. If you're going to be edge, same thing applies. There are however times when people will claim to be apart of 2 groups with conflicting beliefs. This is one of those cases. If you're going to be a devout, honest and good christian, saying that you know better than god isn't possible.

that being said, there's more to being edge than just what you believe.

Alright I guess I completely understand that. If you are edge do it because you fully beleive in it, not for the sake of the label. Although I still disagree with some things that were said here, I understand what you are saying so I will leave the issue alone.

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Originally Posted by collin

i think that it's lame to try and say that i can't be edge and christian, and i know plenty of people who are both.

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But that is what sXe is weither you think it's lame or not. Thats what it has become. You either accept it or you don't.

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Originally Posted by mouseman004

Don't drink, Don't smoke, Don't fuck. Nowhere does it say "Don't follow religion" or hate everybody who drinks. Quiting acting so "holy" pardon the pun. Get off your pedestal. Just because somebody has different opinions than you doesnt mean they arent edge.

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If you really want to go that route and play Ian MacKaye said then what about the song Filler?

So........ how about those * insert favorite sports team or favorite band here * man they sure are cool. Good show/ game last week huh.

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Originally Posted by collin

Ok, so already I've been hearing some controversy...So what do you guys think? Can you be sXe and Christian?

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oh not again....fuck this.

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Originally Posted by xbustedx

oh not again....fuck this.

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It's about fucking time someone said what we're all thinking.

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Originally Posted by stepinsideissue

It's about fucking time someone said what we're all thinking.

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Well i was thinking, "check out the profanity right there?!"

I love it how others ask of peoples opinions and when they get a reply they can't accept the answers and get all offensive.

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Originally Posted by straightXed

Well i was thinking, "check out the profanity right there?!"

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The advitar says it all my friend.

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Originally Posted by stepinsideissue

It's about fucking time someone said what we're all thinking.

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but seriously I have been in three other threads that all ended up in this exac argument.

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Originally Posted by xbustedx

but seriously I have been in three other threads that all ended up in this exac argument.

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And people can't convincingly put forward a counter argument, until they do this is the point the discussion will get caught up.

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Originally Posted by straightXed

And people can't convincingly put forward a counter argument, until they do this is the point the discussion will get caught up.

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Basically your guy's side says that if I buy a Sex Pistol's CD, then say Sid's a genious for the bass lines he made, I cannot be edge because by supporting the band for their music, I'm also supporting their beliefs. I am not. Same thing applies to the Bible, Christianity , and Jesus.
You can be edge and Christian. That's where I'll stand, That's where I'll stay.

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Originally Posted by xCAMIx

Basically your guy's side says that if I buy a Sex Pistol's CD, then say Sid's a genious for the bass lines he made, I cannot be edge because by supporting the band for their music, I'm also supporting their beliefs. I am not. Same thing applies to the Bible, Christianity , and Jesus.
You can be edge and Christian. That's where I'll stand, That's where I'll stay.

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wow, you really don't understand the argument at all.

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Originally Posted by xCAMIx

Basically your guy's side says that if I buy a Sex Pistol's CD, then say Sid's a genious for the bass lines he made, I cannot be edge because by supporting the band for their music, I'm also supporting their beliefs. I am not. Same thing applies to the Bible, Christianity , and Jesus.
You can be edge and Christian. That's where I'll stand, That's where I'll stay.

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Thats not at all an acceptable comparison of the side that says christianity and edge don't equate. What would be a better comparison would be if you claimed to be punk but held the ideals of punk as something that don't apply to you.

If you are edge you are saying god is wrong, so unless you are saying that you can be christian and think that god is wrong (which would be a ridiculous thing to say although i'm sure you are capable of being that ridiculous) then you are wrong in saying you are a christian. However through your posts on this forum it has become abundantly clear that you are an awful christian who really has troubles understanding the concepts behind the ideas set forth in the religion of christianity. I mean you can't even refrain from swearing because its a bit of effort on your part so your insight into the structure of your faith and how it intertwines with other structures really holds very little weight. Even your analogys are painfully off beat and don't address the core of the argument, when you can acceptably address those issues perhaps what you say will begin to have some worth but as it stands you have simply posted inacurate nonsense and accompanied that by simply saying "You can be edge and Christian." Hardly an air tight argument! I mean the very source text of your religion identifys the points that we argue but you choose not to accept the word of your god, your argument isn't even with us its with your own belief system, with your god. You can say that its where you stand and how its where you will stay but that doesn't convince me otherwise of the inconsitancies between being edge and christian, that just shows me that you are standing in defiance of your god. Even though it may seem menial its still his way you are going against. Where you stand just makes you an illogical and awful christain which as you have proven is pretty much the sum of the truth.