Hardcore/Punk Guide To Christianity

...and that's exactly the point where you put words in my mouth.. i'm not a jew, i'm not a christian and i'm not a muslim (and i suspect you were thinking i am)... yes, Islam seems more reasonable than Christianity to me (and that's what i've stated in the "christianity x sxe" and also in the "logic and religion" thread), but that really doesn't make me a practicing muslim.. yet i'm not a pure atheist, that's true...
the reason why i was so much defending various religions are statements just like this one: "you follow an abrahamic religion so it makes sense that you're used to just ignoring things that don't make sense".. making every world believer look like an idiot would make you look like an idiot i guess.. it's not that simple and you know that.. you try to stigmatize a group based on its believes and try to deduce some hypothetical behavior pattern or even level of inteligence .. shit, that is totally comparable to mild racism for me... (and no, i'm not saying you're actually a racist person in any way)...
anyway - you surely agree with everything for 100% but i don't.. (actually that would put you in a position you evidently despise).. that's how the discussion is made you know? that maybe some people with similar opinions are trying to make uniform statement. i see some minor faults in the text but that really doesn't mean that the whole text is wrong.. if 1 or 2 of 100 arguments are wrong it doesn't mean that the whole argumentation is also wrong... that just means that it could be done better.. but it always could be a little bit better, couldn't it?

i hope that it's clear now and we won't mess another thread with two of us not understanding each other...

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Originally Posted by lo0m

...and that's exactly the point where you put words in my mouth.. i'm not a jew, i'm not a christian and i'm not a muslim (and i suspect you were thinking i am)... yes, Islam seems more reasonable than Christianity to me (and that's what i've stated in the "christianity x sxe" and also in the "logic and religion" thread), but that really doesn't make me a practicing muslim.. yet i'm not a pure atheist, that's true...

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Your statements implied belief and never stated otherwise.
Statements like "I do believe in Jesus as a human, maybe a prophet.."
If you think he's a prophet, then you'd have to believe in the abrahamic god.

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the reason why i was so much defending various religions are statements just like this one: "you follow an abrahamic religion so it makes sense that you're used to just ignoring things that don't make sense".. making every world believer look like an idiot would make you look like an idiot i guess.. it's not that simple and you know that.. you try to stigmatize a group based on its believes and try to deduce some hypothetical behavior pattern or even level of inteligence .. shit, that is totally comparable to mild racism for me... (and no, i'm not saying you're actually a racist person in any way)...
anyway - you surely agree with everything for 100% but i don't.. (actually that would put you in a position you evidently despise).. that's how the discussion is made you know? that maybe some people with similar opinions are trying to make uniform statement.

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If you can't judge a group on what they believe. Given what's professed in abrahamic religions, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously who professes belief in it. I am an atheist. It wouldn't make sense if I really understood and accepted other peoples belief in god, would it? The abrahamic tradition is full of bullshit, oppression and contradictions, so yes, I do think anyone who follows it is a moron.

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i see some minor faults in the text but that really doesn't mean that the whole text is wrong.. if 1 or 2 of 100 arguments are wrong it doesn't mean that the whole argumentation is also wrong... that just means that it could be done better.. but it always could be a little bit better, couldn't it?

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Your minor faults were that the person that writing it misunderstood one of the main supposed beliefs of christianity. I don't see how that could be considered minor or put into question the other statements made, since the author apparently has a questionable understanding of the subject matter.

shit, where's my morning response ??

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Originally Posted by lo0m

shit, where's my morning response ??

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not there. there's nothing indicating a deletion so most likely a browser hiccup.

naaah! :-) ok, i will put it quick and clean.
1) if someone says "maybe there's God" does that make him a believer? surely not, that would made him an agnostic. you picked just the only statement that could imply i'm a follower of Islam.. i believe there are statements in those two threads that could prove the other, but that does not really matter. i'm not a follower of any abrahamic religion, i'm putting it crystal clear so there can be no misunderstanding ...
2) actually it would make more sense if you would understand others people belief in God.. that would put you in a position of an informed oponent and you would propably understand that they are the same as you or me. do they have different opinions on different topics? sure, just like we both have.. anyway - you vilify believers for just picking those things they want to and then you do the same - you could as easily pick "love, compassion and charity", but you've picked "bullshit, oppression and contradictions" as characteristic of religion .. and you've tried to convince me that I see only negatives in animal testing? :-)
3) the mistake would be a big mistake if that would be a mistake in core of the pamphlet.. this is not the case.. if 1 or 2 of 100 arguments is somehow mistaken it does not disqualify his other arguments nor the message of the pamphlet.. so, the pamphlet is not perfect.. well, i can live with it...

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Originally Posted by lo0m

naaah! :-) ok, i will put it quick and clean.
1) if someone says "maybe there's God" does that make him a believer? surely not, that would made him an agnostic. you picked just the only statement that could imply i'm a follower of Islam.. i believe there are statements in those two threads that could prove the other, but that does not really matter. i'm not a follower of any abrahamic religion, i'm putting it crystal clear so there can be no misunderstanding ...

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If you're talking about a specific god and not just any god, then yes, it does. it means you believe in the religious texts enough to think that their telling of things is plausible. And yeah it wasn't the only post, there was this one, but I left it out because the first one proved the point.

"well, that's your opinion so don't put it like it's truth.. for other may be absence of God illogical... if you'll look in the nature, you'll see patterns... everywhere.. and some people see in them a work of God... it's not like that faith is for idiots.. one of the greatest scientists are/were believers and i'm sure they approched faith from logical perspective... btw the existence of God cannot be refutated with logic proof.. that's a known thing.. and yes, i am talking about THE logic, as scientific discipline"

When you're talking about God you're talking about the abrahamic version.

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2) actually it would make more sense if you would understand others people belief in God.. that would put you in a position of an informed oponent and you would propably understand that they are the same as you or me. do they have different opinions on different topics? sure, just like we both have.. anyway - you vilify believers for just picking those things they want to and then you do the same - you could as easily pick "love, compassion and charity", but you've picked "bullshit, oppression and contradictions" as characteristic of religion .. and you've tried to convince me that I see only negatives in animal testing? :-)

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If I could understand other peoples belief in the supernatural, then i'd be an agnostic. I don't, so I'm not. I could, except those concepts aren't tied to any given religion, so why would I? When you're pointing out issues with a religious belief, why would you focus on messages of the positive? Especially in this case where the negative, is really negative has far reaching effects that still impact peoples lives today?

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3) the mistake would be a big mistake if that would be a mistake in core of the pamphlet.. this is not the case.. if 1 or 2 of 100 arguments is somehow mistaken it does not disqualify his other arguments nor the message of the pamphlet.. so, the pamphlet is not perfect.. well, i can live with it...

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You're a really easy sell then. If someone is presenting themselves as an expert on something and you know they're wrong about the subject they're supposed to be an expert on, you still believe them. I guess it's good to have gullible people on earth.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

If you're talking about a specific god and not just any god, then yes, it does. it means you believe in the religious texts enough to think that their telling of things is plausible. And yeah it wasn't the only post, there was this one, but I left it out because the first one proved the point.

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no, it does not. it just means that you're open-minded enough to respect others beliefs to that point that you're questioning why are their dragged to religion.. it's not about faith, it's about possibility..

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"well, that's your opinion so don't put it like it's truth.. for other may be absence of God illogical... if you'll look in the nature, you'll see patterns... everywhere.. and some people see in them a work of God... it's not like that faith is for idiots.. one of the greatest scientists are/were believers and i'm sure they approched faith from logical perspective... btw the existence of God cannot be refutated with logic proof.. that's a known thing.. and yes, i am talking about THE logic, as scientific discipline"

When you're talking about God you're talking about the abrahamic version.

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and this post proves what? that i'm a muslim/jew/christian? :-) you must be kidding me.. i only rejected your position of "knowing all". your attitude do disqualify every belief/opinion that is not yours with demagogic so-called arguments. there are words like "maybe", "some people" so i can't even understand why are you thinking that it somehow represents me or my personal faith. the only things i've stated unambiguously are that there are patterns in nature, that some great scientists were believers and that god's existence cannot be logically refutated. well, that's all truth..

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If I could understand other peoples belief in the supernatural, then i'd be an agnostic. I don't, so I'm not. I could, except those concepts aren't tied to any given religion, so why would I? When you're pointing out issues with a religious belief, why would you focus on messages of the positive? Especially in this case where the negative, is really negative has far reaching effects that still impact peoples lives today?

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oh, now you didn't get me right or you're just pretending? i picked those positives only in oposition to those negatives (and only negatives) you've picked. if you want an objective look on religion, you must examine both negatives and positives.

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You're a really easy sell then. If someone is presenting themselves as an expert on something and you know they're wrong about the subject they're supposed to be an expert on, you still believe them. I guess it's good to have gullible people on earth.

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no, you can't be that dumb, i don't believe that. anyway, we have person A and person B. Person A states that marijuana is bad for health because of - lung stress, brain stress and smelly feet. Person B also states that marijuana is bad for health - he agrees with person A about lungs and brain but he knows that the thing with smelly feet is bullshit. Yet, they both share the same opinion on marijuana.. what a gullible and easy sell person B is!! hope you can see now how flabby your argument was..

huh - we're off topic again. you can spare your reply as i won't read it anyway. and next time you'll want to question anyone's faith give yourself a slap and mind your own business..

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Originally Posted by lo0m

no, it does not. it just means that you're open-minded enough to respect others beliefs to that point that you're questioning why are their dragged to religion.. it's not about faith, it's about possibility..

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So thinking that someone was a prophet isn't about faith? There's a fundamental difference in believing in the possibility of some kind of god and believing there's a likelihood that of one specific version, and one specific telling about that specific version.

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and this post proves what? that i'm a muslim/jew/christian? :-) you must be kidding me.. i only rejected your position of "knowing all". your attitude do disqualify every belief/opinion that is not yours with demagogic so-called arguments. there are words like "maybe", "some people" so i can't even understand why are you thinking that it somehow represents me or my personal faith. the only things i've stated unambiguously are that there are patterns in nature, that some great scientists were believers and that god's existence cannot be logically refutated. well, that's all truth..

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The phrasing of it was representational of your own beliefs. If they weren't, then the way you chose your words represented that you did. That the patterns in nature were there because of the abrahamic god and that faith isn't for idiots. So you have faith, and therefore apparently because of this and many other reasons, are an idiot.

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oh, now you didn't get me right or you're just pretending? i picked those positives only in oposition to those negatives (and only negatives) you've picked. if you want an objective look on religion, you must examine both negatives and positives.

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Why would I want to give an objective look on religion when I'm an atheist and not objective about it all? Is this such a hard concept for you to understand? You're a vegan right? Do you give an objective view on all animal rights issues? If I honestly believe that religion is a bad thing, why would I say anything that was positive about it?

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no, you can't be that dumb, i don't believe that. anyway, we have person A and person B. Person A states that marijuana is bad for health because of - lung stress, brain stress and smelly feet. Person B also states that marijuana is bad for health - he agrees with person A about lungs and brain but he knows that the thing with smelly feet is bullshit. Yet, they both share the same opinion on marijuana.. what a gullible and easy sell person B is!! hope you can see now how flabby your argument was..

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See, this is where you demonstrate that you don't actually understand the point I'm trying to make. In this statement, person's A credibility is completely shot and therefore their entire opinion is put into question. If you don't question person A's credibility on the entire subject, then yes you are either gullible or stupid or both.

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huh - we're off topic again. you can spare your reply as i won't read it anyway. and next time you'll want to question anyone's faith give yourself a slap and mind your own business..

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I love it when people say shit like this. Nothing compels you to reply. but then you do, and try and make some smart ass remark that makes you feel like you've won that day.

I like religion arguments but I reading threads about them always starts off fun but then turns into a chore as walls of text start smacking me in the face.