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because if you don't you have something with no meaning. It's commonly agreed that straight edge means no smoking, no drinking and no drugs. If you do any, you're not edge. That's what the actual definition is. It's what makes it that way of life.Quote:
Originally Posted by yaoull
( we spoken about politik. anyway. )Quote:
Originally Posted by xsecx
Straight edge is very RADICAL, not extrem lawish. Radical is about edge in the mind.
It's easy to contourn mindedges and respect lawedge : cause everyone see you about law, in mind you can stay hypocrit.
i don't like your love for the law and tired by religious speech.. make your way, but look how you didn't take part of what the sXe wanted to bring.. Build your church alone dude.
it's funny cause you stand about your Left politikmembership but you acting like a Right.
ok.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsecx
I believed that I was at the Straigh edges.
see ya. ( .. make me out of me.. it's all that you do retain about sXe?.. hardcore leave mouvement punk for centered our life around abstince...!! crazy.. build your church. )
rise up dude!
horrible english aside, you're not making sense. How is it not "extreme lawish"? Edge is as much what you don't do as it what you believe. YOu can believe that drinking is wrong and still drink, you're not edge. This has to do with defintions, not "religious speech". For something to be, it has to be defined and compared to that criteria. That isn't being lawish or building a church, that's the reality of any movement or subculture.Quote:
Originally Posted by yaoull
I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here.Quote:
ok.
I believed that I was at the Straigh edges.
see ya. ( .. make me out of me.. it's all that you do retain about sXe?.. hardcore leave mouvement punk for centered our life around abstince...!! crazy.. build your church. )
rise up dude!
poor guy..Quote:
If you do any, you're not edge. That's what the actual definition is. It's what makes it that way of life.
( i don't do that but my way of life is really different, my definition are not about thing to not do and judgement to do... your eye fix on the laws blind you heart and mind: you respect law but still are an ennemi of sXe)
Be a sxe don't mean acting like them, it is a reasoning.
monkey can stand like human, repeat the "good straigh edge is :...", do this... but don't know for what..
it is about reasoning, but there are still things you can't do and still call yourself straight edge, regardless of how you want to try and view it and what you want to call law.Quote:
Originally Posted by yaoull
ok, so accept that in some situation the sxe reasoning unlight by the laws can conduct do drink and not prefere to don't drink.Quote:
Originally Posted by xsecx
And in fact, if you are afraid to drink, it's because you are afraid to seem's not sxe.
But if you know what is good to do, and what it's dangerous, you stay more sxe : cause you don't do for the other who is looking to you. sxe enslave don't make don't a prisonier but being free.
If some friend comes to you and are enjoy to drink some bier, not to be drunk but cause they are not sxe and it's they way to express their friendship... what will look you? at the law ( and frustrated they in their feeling to be close with you)? or at what the sXe mean ?..
( and Alcoloh is not like heroin )
sXe is to weight all time good and bad.
law can't handle this, cause all situation are different even most look the same.
and for religious purpose -that the topic-, you can't crutch a sXe guy who want follow someone - that maybe you don't accept but he's more for sXe that against- juste because i drink some time wine for religious interresed..
this that who make me crazy.. it's not like if he drinks often.. but for his beliefs.
that's baddd ?
that'is why i say your reaction are exagerted when you weigh bad and good.
no?
( you can doesn't accept that a sXe follows jesus, but don't disguise the right reason by XXX argue.. )
not really following you. I agree with you that people shouldn't feel compelled to be straight edge for the label or do thinks based on whether or not it makes them straight edge. That also though doesn't mean you could drink with your friend and still be straight edge. Straight edge is an extreme stance, so yes, we would treat alcohol the same as we would herion in terms of self consumption because your opinion on those substances and your reasons why you don't do them don't really change.Quote:
Originally Posted by yaoull
it's not bad, but it's also not straight edge. If straight edge was about moderation then it wouldn't be an issue, but it isn't. straight edge is against the consumption of alcohol and the religious issues have more to do with disagreeing with god than anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by yaoull
understand why i say you are religious : when you speak about your belief you say always: "it's against against against against"
so what? i'm not more avandced... what sxe is it FOR ?
it's seem's you know well what it's not, like religious who speak about belief they don't understant, or monkey who try to be like human... but the principal motor you don't seems to see it, speak about...
hardcore comes to bring life where there was no futur. and you speak like a punk who are find a new mask: you dont' see where you can go to rise up, but you know where you risk to die... you always speak about death and wrong at the end..
And that is not sXe at all !!
build. don't try to see where that is falling down : let's that to the punk.
sXe looks at where we can go, and not at where we can't go. rise up :)
ok. so then what is straight edge, define it for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by yaoull
all you blindfoldedlyspoonfedwithyourreligionchristianswho dontknowtheirownreligionandcantseeyourselvesbeingp rovedwrongandjustadmititandtoodumbtoseethewholeiss uethrough make me wanna vomit my breakfast from yesterday! Wise up already
it's a reaction of destruction way of life punk who inspire a really rise up and will to live.
To look at what we can build up instead of looking of the wrong of this world. The will is to give us a chance, altough the world is not pink.
In this way we want have a correct life in respecting ourself and other people ( that why the tripleXXX), and after the other being too cause we are linked ( the 4th X, for vegetan, always for building life preoccupation )
It's about rise punkish to the right direction, to not stand front of the wall and grow up the mouvement where negatif and fatalistik attitude had block him.
all values are for create a mouvement, positive mouvement for enlace life.
the XXX are created for this, and not this for the XXX.
And i don't reconnize this in your "seeking the wrong" attitude.
this is rhetoric and not a definition. What makes someone straight edge? what do they believe? What do they do? What do those X's you keep referencing refer to?Quote:
Originally Posted by yaoull
It was recreational, i even posted a defintion of the word recreational for you and you still can't seem to understand what that word means. If you get one thing from this thread please let it be an understanding of the word recreational.Quote:
Originally Posted by xriseupx
now you are asking how people know water isn't somekind of drug, dude you are seriously reaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by xriseupx
But you don't answer questions, you completely ignore entire posts! And what the hell makes you think anyone would refuse painkillers, you are fabricating everything you are arguing against in your head and completely ignoring what is actually being discussed.Quote:
Originally Posted by xriseupx
Well seeing as you can't really make cohesive points its probably best you don't argue. If you could actually answer the points raised to illuminate exactly why your stance isn't contradictive then people would accept what you say but i've yet to see you do that. All you have established is your reasoning for your stance not being contradictive is completely unproovable and you are happy for it to contradict the bible. Its not exactly a water tight argument is it.Quote:
Originally Posted by xriseupx
well great, XXX is for you the definition of straig edge..
You do XXX for be a straigh edge, but I do XXX CAUSE i'm a straigh edge.
You believe being a straigh edge cause you do XXX, but you don't understand that because you are straig edge that you will do XXX, not the contrary.
it's just empty.
And for the X of sexe, how do understand? = no sexe? no changing partenair?
You exactly know why X.X.X are been set up, the spirit of this X meaning, so why stay blind for alcool?
Go on to believe it's a movement centered around abstince.
i'm sad for your girlfriend if it's your way to live the third X.
i'm sad for your life if it's your way to feel sXe
3rd X is about fidelity, about love : not about abstince of infidelity or abstince of anythingelse..
your legalism make you weird.
XXX is not a definiton of straight edge.Quote:
Originally Posted by yaoull
with your comments you just made clear to everyone you don't know what straight edge isQuote:
And for the X of sexe, how do understand? = no sexe? no changing partenair?
You exactly know why X.X.X are been set up, the spirit of this X meaning, so why stay blind for alcool?
Go on to believe it's a movement centered around abstince.
i'm sad for your girlfriend if it's your way to live the third X.
i'm sad for your life if it's your way to feel sXe
3rd X is about fidelity, about love : not about abstince of infidelity or abstince of anythingelse..
your legalism make you weird.
no it's not. where did I say that I don't do things so I can be straight edge?Quote:
Originally Posted by yaoull
um, no I don't.Quote:
You believe being a straigh edge cause you do XXX, but you don't understand that because you are straig edge that you will do XXX, not the contrary.
it's just empty.
what are you basing this statement on?Quote:
And for the X of sexe, how do understand? = no sexe? no changing partenair?
You exactly know why X.X.X are been set up, the spirit of this X meaning, so why stay blind for alcool?
Do you understand what the word abstince means in english?Quote:
Go on to believe it's a movement centered around abstince.
i'm sad for your girlfriend if it's your way to live the third X.
i'm sad for your life if it's your way to feel sXe
Main Entry: ab·sti·nence
Pronunciation: 'ab-st&-n&n(t)s
Function: noun
2 : habitual abstaining from intoxicating beverages
your weird uses of XXX's makes you weird. You talk about legalism and then use X's instead of "you don't do" and then talk about the meaning behind it. Straight edge has criteria that you can't do to be straight edge. That's what you're using those X's to represent. The actual reality is that the XXX doesn't actually have any real substantial meaning and were just taken from a dischord record that used the X's instead of stars in the DC flag.Quote:
3rd X is about fidelity, about love : not about abstince of infidelity or abstince of anythingelse..
your legalism make you weird.
This has been one of the most fucked up conversations that I've read in a long time.
ok, dont appreciate the digs at techno. techno is pretty cool, electonic music is amazing.
i personally am i christian, sxe and i dont like screamo music!
what does that mean yall are gonna kick me out? if so then what i thought i belonged to isn't that at all.
God is a personal belief, since when does anyone have the right to discriminate against that? and actually almost every sxe person in milwaukee [where i live] does believe in God.
God and the Bible specifically say not to get drunk and im sure that if Jesus would have had something else to drink he would have.
have you ever heard the song filler by minor threat? Hardcore has a huge history of being antichristian, it isn't anything new at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by xmegx
also, pointing out a logical paradox in someone's professed beliefs isn't discrimination at all.
I mean. Do you honestly believe that Jesus wasn't god? That he could turn water to wine, but couldn't find something non alcoholic to drink? Shit, john the baptist could and he wasn't even the son of "god"
what.
ok. then. but you didn't answer my question. why is this movement of misfits, for lack of a better term, so against diversity.
you have to put what Jesus did and drank, into the context of the time period, and contxt.
water was bad to drink, so was milk. they[he] never drank wine to become drunk.
for alot of the soceity, wine was like our milk. we drink all the time.
and back then the alcohol content in wine was so small it was really hard to getdrunk. you needed to drink ALOT at one time
What question did you actually ask? Did you even read what I wrote to you? It's not against diversity at all, your beliefes contradict each other. It's a matter of christian belief not fitting straight edge beliefs, not the other way around.Quote:
Originally Posted by xmegx
again, this is complete and utter bullshit. John the baptist, who travelled with jesus, didn't drink. jesus gave wine to people who were already drunk at the wedding. Please read the following:Quote:
you have to put what Jesus did and drank, into the context of the time period, and contxt.
water was bad to drink, so was milk. they[he] never drank wine to become drunk.
for alot of the soceity, wine was like our milk. we drink all the time.
and back then the alcohol content in wine was so small it was really hard to getdrunk. you needed to drink ALOT at one time
http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Con...114796842.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsecx
can you prove that John the Baptist never drank. ive read the Bible, more than you prolly. it never says that he did. or that he didn't. so how are we to know. what else is he gonna drink when he's all alone in the desert? Jesus used that incident with the wedding to reveal his power and all that he could do for them. he needed an entrance so to speak
uh. yeah it did. You might want to go pick up your bible and read Luke 7:33-34 I also really like Luke 1:15. I guarantee you I've actually independently researched this, instead of just taking what someone in the church told you. Jesus had no problem drinking wine, so why do you? Is your god wrong? If he had a problem with alcohol consumption why would turn water to wine then?Quote:
Originally Posted by xmegx
I always hear the argument from christians that claim edge about how being edge is very similar to strict christian morals but I cant say I buy that at all. They also always give me the argument that straight edge now is very different to years ago and that the only real important part of it is living a drug free lifestyle and nothing else really matters. It also really sucks for me as the main promoter/organiser for hardcore shows in my area is a hypocrite christian straight edge guy. I dont really understand how you can love hardcore and be a christian, in my eyes hardcore is against the grain while christianity is being just another sheep.
being a christian isn't being another sheep. we follow what most of soceity thinks is bogus.
the gov't, random ppl, soceity all try to take away our rights and constantly tell us that we are wrong.
i think that yes, the modern american church is kinda screwed up and has lost alot of credibility, but the message God sent to us is still the same and loving.
i dont do drugs, i dont drink alcohol, and it has nothing to do with that im a christian, basically i wouldn't do those things, heck i didn't do those things when i wasn't a christian. it has alot more to do with who i am, and where i came from and what might happen to my future if did them.
and why is hardcore music so anti-christian? i know alot of hardcore bands that are VERY pro Jesus. the style has nothing to do with the message.
and you're running under the assumption the the church is against loud, roaring music. it's not. well stupid christians who have no respect for differences.
my church goes to hardcore shows. doesn't make us non-christian.
Christians are against anger though, with the bible suggesting that its a sin. Hardcore is an open embrace of anger, its a reaction of anger within its sound, its words, its actions etc. Why would you openly continue to sin against your god by being a part of something that condones and even recommends being angry?Quote:
Originally Posted by xmegx
I guess you read those verses, huh? When you can't argue the logic, you go off on an unrelated tangent.Quote:
Originally Posted by xmegx
You do realize that the vast majority of people in this country are church going christians right? That even the smallest town will have MULTIPLE churches.
your church uses hardcore to recruit, that makes you despicable.
You can be sXe and Christian. I have my reasons for believing so, and am personally a Christian, but not yet sXe. I take flak for being punk and Christian. I take flak from Christians for being punk, and flak from punks for being Christian.
I could care less what they think. I am who I am.
Rob
I'm glad you care somewhat about the fact that you are a walking contradiction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calminaion
This makes no damn sense whats so ever. Edge kids can be christians. I've been edge since 94 or so and a Christian my whole life. Because Jesus drank wine I can't follow him. Thats the stupidiest thing I ever heard. Everybody ( for the most part ) on here says edge is a personal choice...so is religion. So you guys go tell the cro-mags or youth of today shelter or 108 they are wrong for listening to core and being Krishna's. Religion and sXe have nothing to do with each other. Most of you people take yourself way to seriously. Get over it edge and hardcore don't make the world go around. Its imortant to me and its a big part of my life and it has been for 14 years or so but guess what....it's not my life.
You can't be edge and christian...utterly retared. That is by far one of the dumbest things I've ever read in my life.
And for the not following Jesus thing because he drank. So you don't listen to anybody who isn't edge so your parents teachers and boss are all edge right? So the laws you follow everyday were passed by people who were edge right? EDGE ISN'T THE BE ALL AND END ALL GET OVER IT!!!!!!
And also after reading this thread I am truely amazed by how stupid and self righteous a lot of you guys are. And this brings me back to one of my favorite sayings " love hardcore hate hardcore kids "
How is edge a movement? What is edge trying to change. What effect on society does edge have besides on a few kids who listen to core? Edge is not a movement it is a lifestyle. And if it is a movement then why were all you guys bitchin' about militant kids saying kill your local drug dealer? A movement takes action. It doesn't sit on internet boards and bitch about kids who are christian and edge. I'm done with this site.
Watch your booty on the door there buddy, it might hurt when it hits you.Quote:
Originally Posted by asiankaos
if you read it, then you'd hopefully had read how it's not matter of religion, but in fact, a matter of Christianity and how the beliefs do in fact contradict. I'm glad you actually addressed the logical argument instead of just ranting. wait. all you did was rant and say that people were wrong, but didn't actually explain how/why.Quote:
Originally Posted by asiankaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by asiankaos
so jesus was just a human and not perfect? Or was jesus divine and perfect? If jesus was perfect, then how can you find fault in anything he did? If he wasn't perfect, then how could he have not sinned and therefore able to die for the sins of the world?
i agree with the asian kid.
and you know what im not going to argue about my Bible. you choose to believe what you believe.
as will i.
i would rather just know why it's sooo bad to be different than all of yall.
and we dont use hardcore to "recruit". we go to CHRISTIAN hardcore bands. its screaming and head banging but with a more positive message.
God is life. so is sxe. why can't they co-exsist.???
then maybe you can answer the questions I asked him too.Quote:
Originally Posted by xmegx
So you have no intention of actually looking at yourself and your religion and understanding how some of your beliefs contradict with some of your other beliefs?Quote:
and you know what im not going to argue about my Bible. you choose to believe what you believe.
as will i.
Did you even read what was said? Do you even understand that argument that's been made as to why you can't christian and edge?Quote:
i would rather just know why it's sooo bad to be different than all of yall.
so you don't hand out flyers to the shows, don't advertise them? Don't try and get people to listen to them because of their awesome message?Quote:
and we dont use hardcore to "recruit". we go to CHRISTIAN hardcore bands. its screaming and head banging but with a more positive message.
because your god likes to drink wine and sxe thinks your god is wrong.Quote:
God is life. so is sxe. why can't they co-exsist.???