Can You Be Christian And Straight Edge?

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Originally Posted by atXdawnXweXburn

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...termission.jpg

let's all just take a break, eat some s'mores, and sing a nice song...

im singin in the rain
just singin in the rain
what a glorious feelin
i'm happy again

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hippie!

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

yes, remember he died on the cross for are sins. he died so we didnt have to do the old rituals such as drink whine.

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seems like you don't really get the christian belief!

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Originally Posted by xsecx

yeah. here's the problem you're a human. you're not immortal. you're not supernatural. you're not omniscient. you aren't perfect. god by the very fact of what it is, is. so, somehow you think you can disagree with god on ANYTHING and think that it's ok.

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Dude, nobody said christians are immortal...jesus died so that we don't have to be anything other than his followers. i'm not going to drink, but i'm not going to be crucified or walk on water. does that mean that i'm disagreeing with god because I'm not doing exactly what his son did?

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Originally Posted by SgtD

hippie!

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nah, i just like s'mores and old fred astaire movies.

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Originally Posted by atXdawnXweXburn

nah, i just like s'mores and old fred astaire movies.

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i'm more of a frank sinatra guy myself, never cared much for ol' fred...

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Originally Posted by collin

i'm more of a frank sinatra guy myself, never cared much for ol' fred...

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indeed, ol' blue eyes was quite the singer.

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Originally Posted by collin

Dude, nobody said christians are immortal...jesus died so that we don't have to be anything other than his followers. i'm not going to drink, but i'm not going to be crucified or walk on water. does that mean that i'm disagreeing with god because I'm not doing exactly what his son did?

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thanks for demonstrating that you don't even understand the issue.

You know, Im really suprised that this thread has even gotten to 25 pages

hmmm, Now if I could just find that one picture...

yea better then you do apparently. now i figured out why its so hard for you to see it. i was haveing a hard time why you didnt get it. but you said you were raised chritian not that you accepted christ and you became a christain. if you did you would see his insight. do you understand no you dont hes not in you. he lives in me i disagree with drinking so iam a christian and sXe

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

yea better then you do apparently. now i figured out why its so hard for you to see it. i was haveing a hard time why you didnt get it. but you said you were raised chritian not that you accepted christ and you became a christain. if you did you would see his insight. do you understand no you dont hes not in you. he lives in me i disagree with drinking so iam a christian and sXe

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yeah, because you somehow believe him dying for your sins is somehow related to you being able to to think that jesus was something he wasn't capable of. How can he live in someone that doesn't believe he's god?

see i do you dont. he lives in me. so your saying he was incapale of not drinking?

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

see i do you dont. he lives in me. so your saying he was incapale of not drinking?

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man you're dense. I'm saying that if Jesus was god he isn't capable of being wrong. You're saying not only was he capable, but that he was wrong. Jesus drank. Jesue provided alcohol to others. You believe that drinking is wrong and that the behavior that jesus did was wrong. So what else were jesus and god wrong about? Do you kids honestly don't get that you can't think anything jesus did on any level is wrong or it completely fucks up your religion?

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Originally Posted by xsecx

man you're dense. I'm saying that if Jesus was god he isn't capable of being wrong. You're saying not only was he capable, but that he was wrong. Jesus drank. Jesue provided alcohol to others. You believe that drinking is wrong and that the behavior that jesus did was wrong. So what else were jesus and god wrong about? Do you kids honestly don't get that you can't think anything jesus did on any level is wrong or it completely fucks up your religion?

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So what if we dont believe that jesus was god, or that jesus is perfect?

dont you get it. the whine meant nothing to him. it was a symbol of his blood! being that it was whine wasnt the point. it could have been anything.

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

dont you get it. the whine meant nothing to him. it was a symbol of his blood! being that it was whine wasnt the point. it could have been anything.

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don't you get it, he drank wine because culturally,historically and traditionally it's what people did and continue to do. It couldn't have been anything because it was the passover meal, if you're talking about the eucharist. He could have turned water into anything, but he CHOSE wine. Your god had no problem with people drinking wine, yet you somehow do. So I'm still wondering, what else was god and jesus wrong about? What else do you know better than they do about?

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Originally Posted by XshiXnyX

So what if we dont believe that jesus was god, or that jesus is perfect?

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then you're not a christian?

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

dont you get it. the whine meant nothing to him. it was a symbol of his blood! being that it was whine wasnt the point. it could have been anything.

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the entire point is that jesus drank wine, and made it readily available to others. at the last supper he even passed it around and ENCOURAGED the drinking of it ("drink this in rememberence of me")

therefore the religion and sXe are at a flawed compatability. apparently you're the one who doesnt get it.

yea he doesnt with people drinking it. its this modern time when its become a hobby to see how cool you are. i hate drinking i hate what it does to you i hate all of it but do you think if it wasnt this way we would still think the same way? do you think if people drank it like he did we would have a problem? what we have become is because of the way the devil has used it to destroy people not because god drank it.

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

yea he doesnt with people drinking it. its this modern time when its become a hobby to see how cool you are. i hate drinking i hate what it does to you i hate all of it but do you think if it wasnt this way we would still think the same way? do you think if people drank it like he did we would have a problem? what we have become is because of the way the devil has used it to destroy people not because god drank it.

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this is a bullshit argument though. drunkness didn't just happen. It's been a problem since the beginning of time. Hinduism and Buddhism, which predate christianity are both very clear that any consumption of alcohol get in the way. Judaism and Christianty aren't this way. Jesus drank alcohol because he was a jew and had no problem with it. You're still back to the same point in thinking something Jesus did was wrong, and that you're right. Jesus is either right for his time or right for all time. You can't have it both ways. And you still haven't answered what else jesus and god have been wrong about.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

this is a bullshit argument though. drunkness didn't just happen. It's been a problem since the beginning of time. Hinduism and Buddhism, which predate christianity are both very clear that any consumption of alcohol get in the way. Judaism and Christianty aren't this way. Jesus drank alcohol because he was a jew and had no problem with it. You're still back to the same point in thinking something Jesus did was wrong, and that you're right. Jesus is either right for his time or right for all time. You can't have it both ways. And you still haven't answered what else jesus and god have been wrong about.

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you're completely right

even noah was a winemaker, and a BIBLE DOCUMENTED alcoholic

i say nothing. but the devil has used it forever against god. dont you see they used it yes but didnt abuse it. they dint kill themselves with it. did they? why was sXe started? because kids hated how people destroyed themselves with it not because they didnt agree with god.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

then you're not a christian?

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oh, guess im not. hmm, alwasy though I at least kind of wa.

Learn new things everyday =P

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Originally Posted by atXdawnXweXburn

you're completely right

even noah was a winemaker, and a BIBLE DOCUMENTED alcoholic

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the old testament is full of some fucked up shit. lot's daughters getting him drunk and essentially raping him.

people turning to salt. a benevolent god flooding the earth. incest (adam and eve. come on now. if they were the only 2 made, how did six billion+ people come about?)

isnt incest supposed to be a sin?

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

i say nothing. but the devil has used it forever against god. dont you see they used it yes but didnt abuse it. they dint kill themselves with it. did they? why was sXe started? because kids hated how people destroyed themselves with it not because they didnt agree with god.

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right then your issue should be with the abuse of alcohol, not the consumption of it. then your beliefs wouldn't contradict. And the kids who started straight edge very much didn't agree with god.

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Originally Posted by atXdawnXweXburn

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...termission.jpg

let's all just take a break, eat some s'mores, and sing a nice song...

im singin in the rain
just singin in the rain
what a glorious feelin
i'm happy again

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That was not very hXc.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

right then your issue should be with the abuse of alcohol, not the consumption of it. then your beliefs wouldn't contradict. And the kids who started straight edge very much didn't agree with god.

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and the differce is?

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

and the differce is?

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being straight edge means being against any level of consumption of alcoholic beverages.

yep. and iam.

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

yep. and iam.

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so you think jesus was wrong for drinking wine and providing wine to others.

When "Straight Edge" first came about, it was never about a No Tolerence Policy. it was about not getting fucked up. If you have one glass of wine, its not going to fuck you up, but it could lead to that, which is bad. But, if you do drugs then your reality is automatically inpaired, rendering you out of control of your bady. Hence, making you fucked up. Same with sex. It was never about chastity and not having sex, it was about staying in control of your body and only having sex with one partner. The image of straight edge that we have today is a bastardized, raped, and mutated form and a warped reality of what it should be.

Straight edge is about staying in control of your body, NOT about a no tolerence policy.

when i tried saying that i couldnt fine the words. dusty will tell you thats not true, or atleast he did me.

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Originally Posted by THEGROUPCONSCIOUS

When "Straight Edge" first came about, it was never about a No Tolerence Policy. it was about not getting fucked up. If you have one glass of wine, its not going to fuck you up, but it could lead to that, which is bad. But, if you do drugs then your reality is automatically inpaired, rendering you out of control of your bady. Hence, making you fucked up. Same with sex. It was never about chastity and not having sex, it was about staying in control of your body and only having sex with one partner. The image of straight edge that we have today is a bastardized, raped, and mutated form and a warped reality of what it should be.

Straight edge is about staying in control of your body, NOT about a no tolerence policy.

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when "straight edge" came about as a movement, and not a song, it was actually about a no tolerence policy. Unless you have some evidence that it wasn't?

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

when i tried saying that i couldnt fine the words. dusty will tell you thats not true, or atleast he did me.

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that's because it's not true. unless you want to tell me how you drink a beer and still be straight edge?

i cant. i dont think you can drink a beer and be sXe. i forgot he had said the no Tolerence Policy. but i agree with its all about control.

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Originally Posted by XBILLYX

i cant. i dont think you can drink a beer and be sXe. i forgot he had said the no Tolerence Policy. but i agree with its all about control.

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no one ever said that it wasn't all about control.

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Originally Posted by xsecx

when "straight edge" came about as a movement, and not a song, it was actually about a no tolerence policy. Unless you have some evidence that it wasn't?

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Well, I am going by what Ian has said in articles and interviews about it. It wasn't like a caucus sat down and said "THIS IS STRAIGHT EDGE" ... its personal beliefs and personal choices.

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Ian Mackaye:

"From my point of view, I am not interested in intolerance. I am interested in respect for people's decisions in their lives. I have my own opinions and I live my own fucking life by those opinions. If someone leaned on me, told me what to do, I would tell them to fuck off. People who did that really pissed me off."




"All Ages: Reflections on Straight Edge"
By Beth Lahickey
Pg 103

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Originally Posted by THEGROUPCONSCIOUS

Well, I am going by what Ian has said in articles and interviews about it. It wasn't like a caucus sat down and said "THIS IS STRAIGHT EDGE" ... its personal beliefs and personal choices.

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please read the part where it says became a movement. when that happened ian mackaye had nothing to do with it and who's opinion on the subject doesn't really matter at this point.

PSF: How did the idea of 'straight-edge' come about?

It was just the title of a song that i wrote. I guess I coined the phrase but certainly never intended to start a movement.

PSF: Do you still follow this?

I am still straight, but have never really been involved with the 'straight edge movement'.

http://www.furious.com/PERFECT/fugazi.html

When did I ever say that I embrace the movement? I embrace the lifestyle. When it becomes a movement, it becomes a trend.

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Originally Posted by THEGROUPCONSCIOUS

When did I ever say that I embrace the movement? I embrace the lifestyle. When it becomes a movement, it becomes a trend.

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there is no lifestyle, there's only the movement at this point. And since it became a movement 20 years ago, I'm not really sure what your point is since no one involved in straight edge would agree with you that drinking a beer would be ok.