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xsecx
11-07-2011, 05:44 PM
what does everyone think about the various occupy groups?

CarlaRant
11-08-2011, 09:56 AM
Let me ramble a bit:

The Bank Transfer Day FB page says, "While the Bank Transfer Day movement acknowledges the enthusiasm from Occupy Wall Street, the Bank Transfer Day movement was neither inspired by, derived from nor organized by the Occupy Wall Street movement, and the Bank Transfer Day movement does not endorse any activities conducted by Occupy Wall Street." However, there were plenty of individuals at the Occupy Wall Street/Oakland/Phoenix that were carrying signs pleading for people to switch banks; to hit the corporations in their pocketbooks.

Occupy Wall Street one of the major protests that has gotten the attention of the American public. "They picked up 650,000 customers, which, just to put it in perspective, is more than they gained in the entire prior year," points out "Today Show" financial editor Jean Chatzky (in reference to National Bank Transfer Day). The official numbers are still out as to how many actually participated on November 5th. <Guy Fawkes Day>

I am a little ashamed that I'm not more a part of this here in Phoenix.

xsecx
11-08-2011, 12:37 PM
my main point of confusion at this point is that there doesn't really seem to be anything pointed coming out of it. yes people are pissed about the wealth gap but not really doing anything other than camping.

rodrigo
11-09-2011, 08:22 AM
my main point of confusion at this point is that there doesn't really seem to be anything pointed coming out of it. yes people are pissed about the wealth gap but not really doing anything other than camping.

i like that they have their hearts in the right place. but i dont think anything will come out of this.

i dont think there's much they can actually do to shorten the gap, we've been having a now 5 month students strike for a better education system and all that comes with that, cheaper or at least pointing for it being free (more than a half of our public schools have dudes getting more and more money out of redirecting gov's funds to get richer). in any case, a one day strike down here goes pretty much unnoticed, so i can see how they dont want to go home. maybe it's something like that there too?

Lifestyle_X
11-09-2011, 01:22 PM
I'm just curious, that's all.

mouseman004
11-10-2011, 08:58 PM
i like that they have their hearts in the right place. but i dont think anything will come out of this.

This is how I feel about it too. I support the sentiment behind the movements, but the protests themselves (specifically Toronto) have been a joke. Most of the people "protesting" by camping in a park (that has porta potties and a food tent set up) actually have no idea what they are protesting. What seems even worse is that nobody has put forward any meaningful suggestions for change. All I keep hearing about is how capitalism breeds inequality and the rich are too rich. Unfortunately I think a lot of it is just people looking for a way to cause shit. I really do sympathise for the FEW informed protestors that are involved in these movements and have their hearts in the right places, because they are being overshadowed by a lot of stupidity.

rodrigo
11-11-2011, 06:00 AM
This is how I feel about it too. I support the sentiment behind the movements, but the protests themselves (specifically Toronto) have been a joke. Most of the people "protesting" by camping in a park (that has porta potties and a food tent set up) actually have no idea what they are protesting. What seems even worse is that nobody has put forward any meaningful suggestions for change. All I keep hearing about is how capitalism breeds inequality and the rich are too rich. Unfortunately I think a lot of it is just people looking for a way to cause shit. I really do sympathise for the FEW informed protestors that are involved in these movements and have their hearts in the right places, because they are being overshadowed by a lot of stupidity.

i wouldnt say they have no idea what they're protesting about, bunch of people here use that same argument against the student movement i talked about on the previous message, the students may not know the political terms of what they're fighting, they may not know the economic items they're dealing with, but they do know that they're studing in a school that has no glasses on the windows, and that they freeze to death during winter, or that they go to a school that when a bunch of students got together in a room in the second floor, the whole thing went down and fell to the first floor... and they see that public schools in richer places have none of those problems. you can't say they don't know what they're protesting, you know?

i'd imagine same sort of thing goes for the occupy movement, i wouldnt know how much the wealth gap hurts over there in toronto or the states, since i dont live there, but i wouldnt go as far as saying they have no idea, cause i'm pretty sure a huge amount of them does have an idea of what's hurting them.

and the're gonna be asshats in every place that ruin things for everything, so that i can see.

mouseman004
11-12-2011, 11:34 AM
i wouldnt say they have no idea what they're protesting about, bunch of people here use that same argument against the student movement i talked about on the previous message, the students may not know the political terms of what they're fighting, they may not know the economic items they're dealing with, but they do know that they're studing in a school that has no glasses on the windows, and that they freeze to death during winter, or that they go to a school that when a bunch of students got together in a room in the second floor, the whole thing went down and fell to the first floor... and they see that public schools in richer places have none of those problems. you can't say they don't know what they're protesting, you know?

i'd imagine same sort of thing goes for the occupy movement, i wouldnt know how much the wealth gap hurts over there in toronto or the states, since i dont live there, but i wouldnt go as far as saying they have no idea, cause i'm pretty sure a huge amount of them does have an idea of what's hurting them.

and the're gonna be asshats in every place that ruin things for everything, so that i can see.

Yeah I get what you're saying, but simply sitting in a park because they are aware of the gap between the rich and the poor to me doesn't necessarily mean that they know why they are there. In your example with the school I can understand that because they specifically know what they are fighting for. At the occupy Toronto movement there are signs for free tuition, there are gay pride flags at all of the marches, there are native rights groups waving Mohawk flags, there are people who are there making claims about companies and taxes that are just flat out wrong and others yelling out we are living in a police state. There is just a lack of cohesion and unity that to me is discrediting the actual occupy movement.

Kid Edge
11-16-2011, 11:25 AM
I seriously wish I could be there with the occupy protesters.I can just imagine myself there,standing up for my rights,and shoving my middle finger in the face of all those corporats

xvunderx
11-16-2011, 12:54 PM
I think a lot of things have kinda of glommed together and that does seem to make the message seem a little murkier perhaps, but one thing I do think/hope it might be doing is show that there is a lot of people, with a lot of feeling that is contrary to the current loud dogs out there.

It's seemed in recent years that the conservative right have been very vocal, and received/presented as, and to some extent certainly they believe themselves to be, the true voice of America and what it wants (christian, conservative etc...). I hope if nothing else the occupy movement will at least show that the strongly conservative movement in America isn't the whole country, and that there is another motivated tide on the other side.

I also hope that although the interests with the $$$ certainly have by their bank accounts a platform for a loud voice in trying to sway the country in the directions they want (For eg the laughable ads from the Petroleum companies we see on TV the "I'm just a simple lady from middle America and I can't understand why the government wants to punish oil companies, surely that's bad for us all? paid for by petroleum companies of America...") That again if nothing else happens, that they at least are putting some dialog no matter how garbled in the arena again that at least goes up against that.

I do think it would be more powerful if the groups involved could put together a more cohesive message or collection of messages, and that they have created a platform and have eyes and ears on them, they just need to be as talented at using that platform as the other players on the other side.

xVeganAnarchistx
11-21-2011, 07:01 PM
Yeah I get what you're saying, but simply sitting in a park because they are aware of the gap between the rich and the poor to me doesn't necessarily mean that they know why they are there. In your example with the school I can understand that because they specifically know what they are fighting for. At the occupy Toronto movement there are signs for free tuition, there are gay pride flags at all of the marches, there are native rights groups waving Mohawk flags, there are people who are there making claims about companies and taxes that are just flat out wrong and others yelling out we are living in a police state. There is just a lack of cohesion and unity that to me is discrediting the actual occupy movement.

You might not see unity here but its a pretty common notion in progressive politics that all struggles are tied, you can break capitalist oppression from racism from sexism from heterosexism. So seeing anti-capitalists and gay positive people protesting alongside Native groups might seem confusing but in fact its pretty coherent on the left.

mouseman004
11-22-2011, 02:19 PM
You might not see unity here but its a pretty common notion in progressive politics that all struggles are tied, you can break capitalist oppression from racism from sexism from heterosexism. So seeing anti-capitalists and gay positive people protesting alongside Native groups might seem confusing but in fact its pretty coherent on the left.

That could be true in a general sense, but the occupy Toronto movement has only continued to become more and more unorganised and splintered. They recieved an eviction notice saying that they can be at the park for 19.5 hours of the day, but they can't set up tents or spend the night at the park anymore. All of the organisers of the movement went on TV publicly and said that they respect the rule of law, so they will leave peacefully, but there are others who have chained themselves to a tent and have threatened to burn 200 books in their "library" if the police tried to remove them. The organisers and majority of the protestors have publicly distanced themselves from those refusing to leave and who are willing to get violent, and have argued themselves that these people don't understand the true purpose of the movement. Obviously I don't speak for all of the movements, I am just speaking specifically about the Toronto movement.

And I don't necessarily see the link between every struggle. I can understand the logic, but I don't think they can/should be grouped together. I am completely a capitalist (although I do recognize the inherent flaws in the way the system is right now), but at the same time I am 100 percent gay positive, and I support most of the native rights movements. So if I went to a rally supporting gay rights, and suddenly I am standing beside people at the same rally who are there to denounce capitalism, I wouldn't be happy, because I wouldn't want to be grouped with those protestors. It would take away from the views that I am trying to put forward if the person standing beside me is there for a completely different reason.