sXe loosing it's true meaning?

[Optic]

Looking around, and even strongly noticing on these sites, it looks like the meaning of sXe has been cloaked under the "rules" to follow.

From all of my knowladge, from the music, early people, and just common sense, sXe was about Clear Thinking, and Self Power. Three things plagued us from these things immensely.

1. Smoking - Atering our brains, lungs, bodies. Via ciggs, and especially pot. Pot took away clear thought, when you're stoned, you're not yourself, and usually do stupid shit. With Ciggs, you become some little white sticks bitch, it runs in your blood and you crave to suck the dick of a tobbacco company that makes money off your life.

2. Drinking - Much like pot, causes you to do stupid shit, and like ciggs can become a high addiction. Why can't you just go enjoy yourself somewhere, are you so selfless that you on your own can't find things fun that you have to fuck yourself up to enjoy life? Maybe you should consider a swift bullet to the skull because it'll end your misery sooner.

3. Fucking ( permiscuious sex, random lusting ) - Not to be confused with making love to your lover. Fucking really does get in the way of having a clear mind in a big way. Some guys see a girl and are just obsessed with nailing her, to the point where they don't even see what kind of friendship or anything as a person she really has to offer. Also, it tends to be very addictive.


These were the founding princibles behind the sXe movement. They were not rules...rules is something that a higher power is telling you you can't do. If your sXe, then you DON'T WANT to do them, it's a self choice for yourself, right?

It just looks to me like the kids who are picking it up now n days do it for an excuse not to drink or smoke cause they don't want to get in trouble, yet still want to look cool. They fail to get the real concepts behind the whole lifestyle and movement. even on this board I feel a huge sense of that being lost. It's a lot of these same kids/teens that will go out as soon as they're 21 and get drunk off their ass - so you decifer that one.

Has the reasonings behind sXe changed, or is the true meanings to it just lost now?

[xvunderx]

I hear what your are saying, but I think people forgetting that sXe is a subculture and trying to make it just another term for drug is a big part of the problem too.

[flame_still_burns]

well. what is more disturbing is that there was no mention of the fact that straightedge is tied to hardcore music. this is not a political party or a religion... kids wanna call themselves straightedge but have nothing to do with the subculture that makes up straightedge.

how could anyone call themselves straightedge and want nothing to do with hardcore music or straightedge bands?

[Optic]

Agreed, I love the music, as well as all other kinds, but you must remember how straight edge came to be. hXc'rs revolting against the people who were fucking themselves up and darkening the scene. They took a stand to it all and spawnd what we know as sXe now.

A lot of these kids today don't even know how it got to be an X on the hand or anything, I always have to explain it to people. ( people who have the damn thing on themselves! )

[xDOUGxDIGGLERx]

so fucking is against SXE but also wanting to fuck is against it too?

cos that happens to me a lot, i'm not celebate, i just can't get layed.

[drug free adult]

straight edge is not against fucking you idiot. fucking is slang for having sex period. whether with the one you love or your lover for the night.

[flame_still_burns]

Originally posted by drug free adult
straight edge is not against fucking you idiot. fucking is slang for having sex period. whether with the one you love or your lover for the night.

wait... you mean i can actually have sex with my wife and still be straightedge? cool! now i can stop telling everyone my kids are adopted. thanks!

[xvunderx]

Originally posted by flame_still_burns
wait... you mean i can actually have sex with my wife and still be straightedge? cool! now i can stop telling everyone my kids are adopted. thanks!

I know for me true love was waiting to hear that, now I've heard it i'm going to go get laid!!!!!

I have to say I do get tired of people asking if they can have sex etc, I personaly have never slept around, but like my being vegitarian, thats just the way I am and has nothing to do with my being edge.

[Optic]

Originally posted by drug free adult
straight edge is not against fucking you idiot. fucking is slang for having sex period. whether with the one you love or your lover for the night.

Lmao, what ever you say guy. There's a huge difference between some random fuck with someone you have no real attachments to, and making love to your wife, fiance, or just very long time girlfriend.

Like I said, we clearly have people going around on here who don't even know the true basis of sXe, sad.

[flame_still_burns]

Originally posted by Optic
Lmao, what ever you say guy. There's a huge difference between some random fuck with someone you have no real attachments to, and making love to your wife, fiance, or just very long time girlfriend.

Like I said, we clearly have people going around on here who don't even know the true basis of sXe, sad.

if you listen to the song straight edge by minor threat. the song that gave name to this movement, you won't see one reference to anything about sex. (unless he literally wants to fuck his head)

I'm a person just like you
But I've got better things to do
Than sit around and fuck my head
Hang out with the living dead
Snort white shit up my nose
Pass out at the shows
I don't even think about speed
That's something I just don't need
I've got the straight edge
I'm a person just like you
But I've got better things to do
Than sit around and smoke dope
'Cause I know I can cope
Laugh at the thought of eating ludes
Laugh at the thought of sniffing glue
Always gonna keep in touch
Never want to use a crutch
I've got the straight edge

on the song 'out of step' he mentions the 'i don't fuck' line...

i wasn't around to witness the founding principles of straightedge. is it the song straightedge? or a combonation of straightedge and out of step? or are these principles unwritten and just implied?

obviously drinking, smoking and doing drugs are in opposition to the straightedge lifestyle... but sex is not so easily defined. i'm curious what would lead you to say that people on this board are running around with no idea what the true basis of straightedge is.

i'm not saying that i'm in support of going around and fucking with reckless abandon, but i suppose the lines are not so clear with this one. there are certain items in regards to straightedge, like drinking for instance- that are cut and dry. with sex (as well as caffeine and veg(etari)anism) i think the best course of action is to let the individual define their own terms. what you consider 'fucking', someone else may not think is that at all. all i'm saying is with sex, it's up to each individual to decide what is harmful vs. healthy behavior.

[Optic]

Straight Edge came about to get out the crap, addictions, and poisons of hXc. It was brought out to be about CLEAR THINKING, as well as SELF POWERMENT.... Yes, Drinking and Smoking are easy one's for most sXe's because that's something a lot of people don't do for various reasons anyways!

Then you have the "fucking" aspect something a lot of these "sXe's" will fight about, simply because this is something that affects them more in direct! Well like it or not buddy, sex is a huge thing in the world, that can be just as, if not plenty more addictive then driniking and smoking combined, where as you want to accept it or not.

An sXe'r should be able to talk to, get along with, and enjoy the company of someone else, without all these lustfull thoughts and just wanting to get in their pants. It's something that clouds, even consumes weak people, and the ones who are trying to say fucking isn't apart of sXe are just too primative to accept that.

sXe's about respect yourself, giving your mind clear thought, being in controll of your every move, and the thin's it touches down on all greatly effect that.

Like I've clearly said already though, there's a huge difference between fuck, and sex/making love with your partner in a strong, mutual relationship. - and yes, it goes beyond a Minor Threat song!! Quit being ignorant to your own means!

I guess if sex was my big weakness I'd make excuses or try to weasel my way out of it too, so that I could feel justified as a full fledge sXe.

[xsecx]

Originally posted by Optic
Straight Edge came about to get out the crap, addictions, and poisons of hXc. It was brought out to be about CLEAR THINKING, as well as SELF POWERMENT.... Yes, Drinking and Smoking are easy one's for most sXe's because that's something a lot of people don't do for various reasons anyways!

Then you have the "fucking" aspect something a lot of these "sXe's" will fight about, simply because this is something that affects them more in direct! Well like it or not buddy, sex is a huge thing in the world, that can be just as, if not plenty more addictive then driniking and smoking combined, where as you want to accept it or not.

An sXe'r should be able to talk to, get along with, and enjoy the company of someone else, without all these lustfull thoughts and just wanting to get in their pants. It's something that clouds, even consumes weak people, and the ones who are trying to say fucking isn't apart of sXe are just too primative to accept that.

sXe's about respect yourself, giving your mind clear thought, being in controll of your every move, and the thin's it touches down on all greatly effect that.

Like I've clearly said already though, there's a huge difference between fuck, and sex/making love with your partner in a strong, mutual relationship. - and yes, it goes beyond a Minor Threat song!! Quit being ignorant to your own means!

I guess if sex was my big weakness I'd make excuses or try to weasel my way out of it too, so that I could feel justified as a full fledge sXe.

number one, hardcore didn't exist when straight edge started. they started at the same time. and straight edge was a response to punk, not hardcore.

number two, what are you basing this on? songs? zine articles?

number three, you do realize that the 3 people you're arguing about sXe loosing it's true meaning have all been sXe and dealing with sXe for over 15 years each?

number four, there are no chemicals in sex which make it additive and it's no more addictive than any other behavior. Is gambling against the edge? it's addictive. Shopping? TV? Internet?

[Optic]

1. It can really be tossed around either way, I'm sure hardcore was out a few before straight edge, if you could give me dates I'd be more then happy to take my statement back.

2. Basing off songs, articles, people I've met over the years, and my own common sense

3. Does it really matter? Look at things in the world, a preacher could be raised into and have preached 40 years, but they still "sin" don't they? - I know that's a little off as to our discussion, but gets the point across a little. I could have been doing something all my life, doesn't mean that I've always been doing it the way it was intended, I'm sure I'd end up adjusting it to myself as I expanded myself in life, which then takes it a little out of context. Despite how you want to justify things, the orignal won't change.

4. I consider sex very addictive to many. Why do we have so many guys who ruin girls lives, rape and what not? People become easily obsessed with it. Although Your gambelling argument is valid, it's still not something so common and widespread as drinking and smoking.

In the end, it all challenges your clear perception, and reguardless of what you say, that's not very edge. As we all know though, it can be slanderd here and there, ie: caffine

[flame_still_burns]

first of all. i don't have time to write a full response to optic because i have to go work. however, how am i being ignorant to my own means? i'm simply stating that it is not always a clear line between what is promiscuous, casual, or meaningful sex.

i also don't understand how you can claim this board is full of people who don't know about the true meaning of straightedge...when as best i can tell you can tell you made your post on the one of the first days you were on this board...

perhaps i was playing devils advocate more than i should have. but i think your post was self righteous and presumptious. you don't really know anyone on this board and you sure as hell don't know our history or our sex lives. i can understand that you think there are issues that are given less attention than others in straightedge...

however, don't even mention my name in the same breath as being anything less that full fledged straightedge. you don't know a goddamn thing about me...

[xsecx]

Originally posted by Optic
1. It can really be tossed around either way, I'm sure hardcore was out a few before straight edge, if you could give me dates I'd be more then happy to take my statement back.

2. Basing off songs, articles, people I've met over the years, and my own common sense

3. Does it really matter? Look at things in the world, a pearcher could be raised into and have preached 40 years, but they still "sin" don't they? - I know that's a little off as to our discussion, but gets the point across a little. I could have been doing something all my life, doesn't mean that I've always been doing it the way it was intended, I'm sure I'd end up adjusting it to myself as I expanded myself in life, which then takes it a little out of context. Despite how you want to justify things, the orignal won't change.

4. I consider sex very addictive to many. Why do we have so many guys who ruin girls lives, rape and what not? People become easily obsessed with it. Although Your gambelling argument is valid, it's still not something so common and widespread as drinking and smoking.

In the end, it all challenges your clear perception, and reguardless of what you say, that's not very edge. As wel all know though, it can be slanderd here and there, ie: caffine

1. not really go read dance of days where they talk about the creation of straight edge and apparently ian coining the term hardcore in an interview.

2. which songs, which articles? Which people?

3. it does matter since you're the one trying to talk about sXe loosing it's true meaning. The people who have been doing it the longest tend to have the most clue.

4. If you knew anything about rape, you'd realize it wasn't about sex at all.
and now you're getting circular. If one thing is wrong because it's addictive than anything and everything that is additive is wrong. Regardless of how widespread they are.

[Optic]

To flame_still_burns,

Sorry I wasn't specific enough for you, I was speaking more in terms of people I've met in real life and talked to around the net more so then people specificly on this board. If you noticed, when I made refrences to the board before, I made sure to say that I saw a couple, not meaning more so then not more so.

You're right, I know nothing of you, and I'm not trying to judge you what so ever, I never even pointed a single comment of mine twords you. Like I said, I speak more on a scale of people I've had personal experiance with.

Now xsecx,
( by the way quoting an entire post every time is highly uneeded )

As I said, you you have proof otherwise then I'd be more then happy to stand corrected and I thank you for clearing that up. I speak from what I see myself and I accept I won't always be right.

I really don't need to dig into it, but I've herd plenty of songs with refrences, just can't think of any at this point ( I don't memorize too much, fuck me ) As for people, people who I've met at concerts, in town that notice my X and get into convos with, and people over the net. Some of them I'm sure have been into the scene just as equally as long. Obveiously I herd the same things well enough times from different sources to draw a fair conclusion that permiscuious sex was a big part of it.

I know rape is about controll more then sex, I'm not blinded, but still, it does play a big part in a lot of negativity in sociaty, but thank you for picking only select parts of my points to call out on that really don't hold solid relivance to my orignal discussion and were said more as a side note, I appreciate that ;)

If you can't agree that it was clearly said in the start of sXe that fucking was an orignal concept then I guess we can just agree to disagree, because I feel comfortable that it was.

Sorry to anyone I may have offended, I'm just trying to make discussion. =)

[xsecx]

Originally posted by Optic

Now xsecx,
( by the way quoting an entire post every time is highly uneeded )

As I said, you you have proof otherwise then I'd be more then happy to stand corrected and I thank you for clearing that up. I speak from what I see myself and I accept I won't always be right.

I really don't need to dig into it, but I've herd plenty of songs with refrences, just can't think of any at this point ( I don't memorize too much, fuck me ) As for people, people who I've met at concerts, in town that notice my X and get into convos with, and people over the net. Some of them I'm sure have been into the scene just as equally as long. Obveiously I herd the same things well enough times from different sources to draw a fair conclusion that permiscuious sex was a big part of it.

I know rape is about controll more then sex, I'm not blinded, but still, it does play a big part in a lot of negativity in sociaty, but thank you for picking only select parts of my points to call out on that really don't hold solid relivance to my orignal discussion and were said more as a side note, I appreciate that ;)

If you can't agree that it was clearly said in the start of sXe that fucking was an orignal concept then I guess we can just agree to disagree, because I feel comfortable that it was.

Sorry to anyone I may have offended, I'm just trying to make discussion. =)

it's etiquette. you quote what you're responding to so that when more than 2 people are talking, people will know what's being refereneced.

and yes, you do need to dig into it. You're making a statement. For that statement to be valid you are required to provide proof. So far you've just made statements and no support evidence. If there are plenty of things, then find them and list them.

and as for when sXe started, when it started it was considered ok for a beer every now and then. When it started people weren't all that worried about sex. In fact, no other early sXe band besides minor threat wrote a song about sex, at all. It's cool if you want to disagree with this, but you need to provide evidence of why you believe what you believe.

[Optic]

Ok, allow me to flip the script, where's your proof that no other band did't ever talk about sex? I remember ideas I've herd from songs, just not specific lyrics and what not. I admit, most of my music is cd burned compilations I've bought and downloaded songs, so a lot of the times I don' know what artists I'm listening to, which is why it's hard for me to get quotes.. I have a song that clearly puts sex out there though...

"Decaying in my brain
too much is just not enough
pushing me to make me break
now all i know is i want to fuck
is it me or a deamon inside
i can't fuckin make up my mind
too late i'm caught up again
give in to the deadly sin"

If anyone reccognizes that please tell me =)

They also have a song, I think the name's..erm, Burning Ash, not sure, I can tell they're early, if not early then early styled.

but yeah, I guess I just loose in this argument lol.. I'll still continue as I believe though, just because I know myself that it can be such a horrible part of sociaty that can completely demeen people of themselvs and crush's lifes.

[xsecx]

Originally posted by Optic
Ok, allow me to flip the script, where's your proof that no other band did't ever talk about sex? I remember ideas I've herd from songs, just not specific lyrics and what not. I admit, most of my music is cd burned compilations I've bought and downloaded songs, so a lot of the times I don' know what artists I'm listening to, which is why it's hard for me to get quotes.. I have a song that clearly puts sex out there though...

"Decaying in my brain
too much is just not enough
pushing me to make me break
now all i know is i want to fuck
is it me or a deamon inside
i can't fuckin make up my mind
too late i'm caught up again
give in to the deadly sin"

If anyone reccognizes that please tell me =)

They also have a song, I think the name's..erm, Burning Ash, not sure, I can tell they're early, if not early then early styled.

but yeah, I guess I just loose in this argument lol.. I'll still continue as I believe though, just because I know myself that it can be such a horrible part of sociaty that can completely demeen people of themselvs and crush's lifes.

My proof is that none of the releases of ssd, dys, uniform choice, government issue, or 7 seconds had a song about sex on it.

yeah, but just because something is a horrible part of society doesn't make it part of straight edge. If you've noticed no one has said at all that casual or promiscious sex was a good idea, just that it doesn't have anything to do with straight edge.
Child abuse is horrible, but what does edge have to do with beating children?
Not everything you believe has to be linked to one source.