uk election

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so what do the brits think about it?

[Teratus]

Hung Parlament atm

if only that was true

just the thought of all them politicians hanging from the ceiling makes me smile hahaha

but on a serious note

I really want labour out thats why i voted conservative
Gorden Brown is a moron with no idea of what he's doing
he's doubled our national debt in one year and is completely ignorant of immigration problem

and apparently a fairy dies evertimes he smiles XD

whats your thoughts on the Uk election?

[straightXed]

Hung Parlament atm

if only that was true

just the thought of all them politicians hanging from the ceiling makes me smile hahaha

but on a serious note

I really want labour out thats why i voted conservative
Gorden Brown is a moron with no idea of what he's doing
he's doubled our national debt in one year and is completely ignorant of immigration problem

and apparently a fairy dies evertimes he smiles XD

whats your thoughts on the Uk election?


Given the recent economic events do you really think anyone else could have done much more to give stability to the UK economy? If so what? And if you look worldwide you will note similar problems in most countires, do you feel the leaders of those countries also do not know what they are doing?

What exactly is it that you disagree with in regards to labours policies on immigration?

My thoughts on the UK election are thus:

The increased turn out was indeed due to a much more focussed media following, i feel this is a both good and bad. The increased turn out is great but the way people have been encouraged to vote is worrying, a lot has been based on individual personalities. David cameron has won well with that as he talks a great game and sells the promise of a prosperous government very well. The focus on the previous problems conservative governments have caused seemed to be ommited almost entirely. I spoke to people who were following cameron and their reasons for voting ranged from "theres no black in the union jack" to "i read the sun and they said he's the countries hero". That honestly frightens the crap out of me, so many people that previously had no interest in voting or politics in general were all of a sudden avid supporters of cameron without any real understanding of the conservative party or the ephasis behind it. I have no problem people voting for conservative but i truly feel many people would be hugely misrepresented, if conservatives had won a majority they would have then shown exactly what was written inbetween the lines of their manifesto. All partys sell themselves at election time and appeal to different demographics with carefully worded "promises" and if we are voting for who is best at that then its definitely a tory win. The media in this country has always had huge clout with favouring certain parties over others and conservative flavoured media organisations did very well but i found the amount of people that truly had no clue about things was shocking, some people knew nothing and obeyed press or what friends said, some simply wouldn't vote and felt bad they knew nothing about politics.

I personally voted lib dem for the local seat as it was won by a conservative mp in the previous general, he has done very little for this town whilst he was in and it has always been a strong lib dem hold in previous years. It was close but conservative took it again, which is not good as hey really fail to keep the outrageous local council in any kind of check. I was hoping for hung parliament and am in favour of a lib lab coalition, i found it quite hilarious how media reported the idea of hung parliament would be catastrophic but the reality is it has actually drawn attention to the flawed voting system.

[Teratus]

In all honesty with you there None of the partys that were in this election are good enough to run the country

All Cameron and Brown do to be honest is bikker and bitch through every single live show they have been on

its pathetic to see mature men acting like children

Nick I dont really know what to think of him tbh

the Bnp are just racists
Ukip wouldnt know how to run a country
and the green party only care about legalising weed sod the economy sod everything Weed Cures all

they are just moron stoners lol

I dont agree with the whole No black in the union Jack but i do belive that immigrants are taking the piss now
there are far to many of them here

British Jobs for british workers was one of browns promises and completely backfired
fact is busnesses are opening here and refusing to employ british people
they get immigrants to work for nothing which in my opinion is slavery

we all know how hard it is to find work here thats why we need a goverment who will do something about this

[straightXed]

In all honesty with you there None of the partys that were in this election are good enough to run the country

All Cameron and Brown do to be honest is bikker and bitch through every single live show they have been on

its pathetic to see mature men acting like children

Nick I dont really know what to think of him tbh

the Bnp are just racists
Ukip wouldnt know how to run a country
and the green party only care about legalising weed sod the economy sod everything Weed Cures all

they are just moron stoners lol

I dont agree with the whole No black in the union Jack but i do belive that immigrants are taking the piss now
there are far to many of them here

British Jobs for british workers was one of browns promises and completely backfired
fact is busnesses are opening here and refusing to employ british people
they get immigrants to work for nothing which in my opinion is slavery

we all know how hard it is to find work here thats why we need a goverment who will do something about this

None of this actually answers the question i asked of you, what action on immigration and illegal immigration that labour set out do you disagree with. Can you provide more information on the buisnesses that are actually refusing to employ british people? are they employing immigrants or illegal immigrants? And if you could also address the question on the economic down turn i would love to hear the answer. How do you feel about our involement in the EU thus far?

[Teratus]

I wish i could give you an answer you would be happy with but i really dont understand polotics that much I tend to avoid getting involved in thinks that make little sense and are designed to confuse you

I know that labour have screwed up and screwed up badly

and about the immigration
it really needs to be stopped before we end up a third world country
and just so im not branded a racist for that im not just talking about black people im talking about european Immigrants, Asian, everyone

we get immigrants from everywhere here and alot of them dont even work or want to work they just scrounge of the goverment and the benifit system which in the end is what our taxes pay for

[rodrigo]

I wish i could give you an answer you would be happy with but i really dont understand polotics that much I tend to avoid getting involved in thinks that make little sense and are designed to confuse you

I know that labour have screwed up and screwed up badly

and about the immigration
it really needs to be stopped before we end up a third world country
and just so im not branded a racist for that im not just talking about black people im talking about european Immigrants, Asian, everyone

we get immigrants from everywhere here and alot of them dont even work or want to work they just scrounge of the goverment and the benifit system which in the end is what our taxes pay for

fuck you

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I wish i could give you an answer you would be happy with but i really dont understand polotics that much I tend to avoid getting involved in thinks that make little sense and are designed to confuse you

I know that labour have screwed up and screwed up badly

and about the immigration
it really needs to be stopped before we end up a third world country
and just so im not branded a racist for that im not just talking about black people im talking about european Immigrants, Asian, everyone

we get immigrants from everywhere here and alot of them dont even work or want to work they just scrounge of the goverment and the benifit system which in the end is what our taxes pay for

if you don't understand that much how can you make a blanket statement about immigration? it also seems kind of weird to vote in an election if you don't understand the issues and what people are saying they'll do to fix them.

[Teratus]

Its simple

Labour made a ton of promises last time they were in a election and managed to stay in office

they didnt deliver a single thing they swore to do
they just ended up making everything worse

in one year our national debt has doubled because of poor leadership

its not a blunt attack on labour its just that if they cant do the job then someone else should take over

[xsecx]

Its simple

Labour made a ton of promises last time they were in a election and managed to stay in office

they didnt deliver a single thing they swore to do
they just ended up making everything worse

in one year our national debt has doubled because of poor leadership

its not a blunt attack on labour its just that if they cant do the job then someone else should take over

right, but last time I looked, there were a lot more than just parties in the UK. So it would seem to me that it would make more sense to look at the other parties to see how things would be done rather than just voting tory out of spite against labour. How did labour's immigration policy double the national debt of the uk?

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I wish i could give you an answer you would be happy with but i really dont understand polotics that much I tend to avoid getting involved in thinks that make little sense and are designed to confuse you

I know that labour have screwed up and screwed up badly

what did they do so badly that you know...are you sure you aren't just confused and don't understand?


and about the immigration
it really needs to be stopped before we end up a third world country
and just so im not branded a racist for that im not just talking about black people im talking about european Immigrants, Asian, everyone

how are we going to end up a third world country exactly? You are refering to legal immigration here right? As you haven't specified illegal immigration. even so, how????

So you think we should let no other cultures into the country? You are against a multicultural society?


we get immigrants from everywhere here and alot of them dont even work or want to work they just scrounge of the goverment and the benifit system which in the end is what our taxes pay for

Show me these, and surely this becomes a benifit issue not an immigration one? i mean what about tha vast amount of non immigrants that live off benifits? And when you say a lot of immigrants don't work do you have a figure or percentage? Are you saying more legal immigrants come here and use the benifit system than come here to work?

[straightXed]

Its simple

Labour made a ton of promises last time they were in a election and managed to stay in office

they didnt deliver a single thing they swore to do
they just ended up making everything worse

in one year our national debt has doubled because of poor leadership

its not a blunt attack on labour its just that if they cant do the job then someone else should take over


Are you actually taking the economic climate and recent problems into account at all?

Did they make things worse than the last time conservatives were in power?

[xsecx]

fuck you

shut up third world!

[rodrigo]

shut up third world!

careful, or i'll take yer jobs!

[Teratus]

Well to be honest I only voted torrie for 2 reasons

1. I wanted Labour out of office
2. They were the onyl party running that could have out voted Labour

It was pointless to vote for a party like Ukip, BNP or Libdem because I knew they had no chance of winning the Public Vote

you say read the policys of all partys before voting

yet how can you do that these days when people will brand you a racist and a facist for even considering to vote BNP?

what happend to freedom of speech hmm?

and im not sure what happend last time the torries were in power
I know the Thatcher era wasnt a good one

but lets look at the facts here
its not Thatcher running for office is it

the people who lead the partys change so doesnt that mean the partys will change aswell?

and for the whole immigration thing
im not against a multi cultural society

but i am against the fact that white british are being put last when it comes to work and other things
that is a fact in the Uk

[straightXed]

Well to be honest I only voted torrie for 2 reasons

1. I wanted Labour out of office
2. They were the onyl party running that could have out voted Labour

Why did you want conservative in though?


It was pointless to vote for a party like Ukip, BNP or Libdem because I knew they had no chance of winning the Public Vote

Ukip and BNP i agree is pointless. Lib dem were in a great place to win more seats and were expected to and with the forcast of hung parliament voting lib dem was even more relative than usual.


you say read the policys of all partys before voting

yet how can you do that these days when people will brand you a racist and a facist for even considering to vote BNP?

Well thats because the policies of BNP are largely fascist and racist, if you follow politics you would be aware of that. If you aren't aware of that read manifestos and look at policies and party behaviour/history. Nothing is stopping you researching this.


what happend to freedom of speech hmm?

What do you mean? You are giving an example of free speech and then asking where it is?


and im not sure what happend last time the torries were in power
I know the Thatcher era wasnt a good one

Might be an idea to look into that before voting, give you an idea of what you are actually voting for, also gathering an understanding for what the party stands for. I feel an informed vote is a good vote and an uniformed vote is a dangerous one.

I mean your understanding of labour is pretty shoddy and it seems your understanding of the party you voted for is even worse.


but lets look at the facts here
its not Thatcher running for office is it

No, its not and i am not making thatcher a focal point here, you are. I am saying there are party lines that will be kept to, there are ideologies that you are either unaware of or haven't thought through with any sensibility and i think that you could do yourself a big favour by getting more informed on this, learn about things from more objective sources and stop trying to justify everything here. And i mean learn about both sides.


the people who lead the partys change so doesnt that mean the partys will change aswell?

Leaders have an impact but leaders still run in line with the parties ideals and leanings, conservative will still have their design as will labour, both of which you seem blissfully unaware.


and for the whole immigration thing
im not against a multi cultural society

The things you say make you seem like you very much are. Are you noticing the reactions you are getting?




but i am against the fact that white british are being put last when it comes to work and other things
that is a fact in the Uk

Its not a fact at all, i am not witnessing this in reality at all. Its negative media hype. Saying it is fact doesn't make it so. How about providing evidence? Proof that white british people are being given any less oppertunities, proof that this isn't just a tyraid against people trying to work against the inherent racism that exists by offering equal oppertunities. Give me facts and figures from a relaible and objective source to back up your claim that suggests white people are being given less oppertunity based on being white. I mean if you don't get a position you apply for and an asian man does get it, is that the white british male being put last? No, but you can bet thats the sort of thing this thinking is spawned from...so yeah, evidence please.

[Teratus]

Why did you want conservative in though?

They were the only party that had a chance of taking labour out of office
I sorta answered that with the previous post



Ukip and BNP i agree is pointless. Lib dem were in a great place to win more seats and were expected to and with the forcast of hung parliament voting lib dem was even more relative than usual.

Lib Dem didnt do very well with the votes though I dont think



Well thats because the policies of BNP are largely fascist and racist, if you follow politics you would be aware of that. If you aren't aware of that read manifestos and look at policies and party behaviour/history. Nothing is stopping you researching this.

True alot of them are but not all of them
and I do agree with some of thier policys
and I have read up on the Bnp quite alot in the past as i was considering them as my vote
but when it comes down to it Nick Griffon is not PM matirial and would bring more problems then he would solve



Might be an idea to look into that before voting, give you an idea of what you are actually voting for, also gathering an understanding for what the party stands for. I feel an informed vote is a good vote and an uniformed vote is a dangerous one.

cant argue with that



No, its not and i am not making thatcher a focal point here, you are. I am saying there are party lines that will be kept to, there are ideologies that you are either unaware of or haven't thought through with any sensibility and i think that you could do yourself a big favour by getting more informed on this, learn about things from more objective sources and stop trying to justify everything here. And i mean learn about both sides.

I was only trying to make a point that Cameron wouldnt want to repeat the mistakes the torries made years ago thats all




The things you say make you seem like you very much are. Are you noticing the reactions you are getting?

Yes but i get that crap all the time anyway
the racist card is stupidly over used these days I've been called a racist puerly because i dont date people from other races how is that racist its just personal preferance
its not racist because your not attracted to other races
tbh i really dont care about other peoples opinions anymore people can say what they want and call me what they want thier opinions really dont mean shit to me





Its not a fact at all, i am not witnessing this in reality at all. Its negative media hype. Saying it is fact doesn't make it so. How about providing evidence? Proof that white british people are being given any less oppertunities, proof that this isn't just a tyraid against people trying to work against the inherent racism that exists by offering equal oppertunities. Give me facts and figures from a relaible and objective source to back up your claim that suggests white people are being given less oppertunity based on being white. I mean if you don't get a position you apply for and an asian man does get it, is that the white british male being put last? No, but you can bet thats the sort of thing this thinking is spawned from...so yeah, evidence please.

Well you must have at least heard about immigrants getting employed over british workes due to they will work for less money
not that its thier fault there they are victims in that
but you cant deny the ammount of busnesses in this country which nearly every worker is foreign

there are hundreds of work places around by me where the entire manual labour side of the busness is worked by immigrants

I applied for a job in several warehouses before i started my current job and half the people i asked for help and directions in these places couldnt even speak english

[straightXed]

They were the only party that had a chance of taking labour out of office
I sorta answered that with the previous post

No, its a different question, i am asking why you wanted them in, what merits they had in order to make voting for them worth it. Basically i know that you wanted labour out but if research highlighted to you that conservative would be worse then would voting for them be wise? The answer is no, and this is why you should make informed choices and if you are faced with two evils choose the lesser of the two.





Lib Dem didnt do very well with the votes though I dont think

They were on course to do a lot better, but the point is they are right now hugely influential in how this country is governed...so voting for them was important and if they just a little more support they would be solely in demand for calling the coalition either way, as it stands with labour they could only make minority so it would need either multiple parties or a very strong argument. Either way they are a significant player as part of a 3 party system and growing and so voting for them has merit.





True alot of them are but not all of them
and I do agree with some of thier policys
and I have read up on the Bnp quite alot in the past as i was considering them as my vote
but when it comes down to it Nick Griffon is not PM matirial and would bring more problems then he would solve

If you have read up on BNP and still would consider casting your vote that way then you are a disgusting and dispicable person, the policies are inherently rascist, the party is inherently racist and if you were to support them you would be, by association, racist.





cant argue with that

This is the general theme of the entire discussion here, you really need to get more information on this.





I was only trying to make a point that Cameron wouldnt want to repeat the mistakes the torries made years ago thats all

They don't accept them as mistakes though, in their eyes they governed the country well and made good choices and defend those choices. This again is part of the issue of needing to understand party lines to be able to actually work towards what you want. If you think they were mistakes and the conservatives don't then there is some serious contention there. And if you understood and researched more you may find a whole lot of other stuff you disagree with them on. All well and good getting a party you dislike out but you have to be aware of what you are putting in.






Yes but i get that crap all the time anyway
the racist card is stupidly over used these days I've been called a racist puerly because i dont date people from other races how is that racist its just personal preferance
its not racist because your not attracted to other races
tbh i really dont care about other peoples opinions anymore people can say what they want and call me what they want thier opinions really dont mean shit to me

If other peoples opinions mean shit to you i must ask, why are you going back and forth with me about opinions? Are you saying that from the outset you don't care what i say? If so, why be on a discussion board?

If you are getting these reactions and you get them all the time then there is probably a damn good reason for it. You do seem to have some racial hang ups and to be honest you seem to have a whole bunch of issues that need addressing. Saying you don't care is just a really half assed way of not addressing things that people bring up that you really probably should address. The racist card is over used in the sense that racism still exists so it has to be used, you don't seem like you are looking to erradicate racism in any way, you are making no positive action towards that from how you present yourself to others here. But no, this doesn't really have anything to do with who you are attracted to, but i would question what you are attracted to. I mean like you said we aren't just talking about black people here, we are including all nations and backgrounds and ethnicity, and how can you be sure you wouldn't find someone of a different race attractive?







Well you must have at least heard about immigrants getting employed over british workes due to they will work for less money
not that its thier fault there they are victims in that
but you cant deny the ammount of busnesses in this country which nearly every worker is foreign

I am not seeing evidence here, just negative and hateful nonsense.

So who works for less money? Legal immigrants don't, they are protected by the same fairness to work rights you and i have and its these people that you see working hard in a lot of buisnesses, serving the public. You won't see or hear too much about the illegal immigrants working illegally and off the book as that is a hugely criminal activity that is constantly under investigation.

You are really chatting out your ass with all this and listening to bullshit hateful nonsense that isn't factual.

So you need to distinguish between legal and illegal immigrants, you need to provide actual factual evidence of all these companys employing foriegners over white british males. Are they only being employed over white british, not asian british or black british? See it all sounds like it comes right from the BNP as some white power propaganda used to recruit suseptable white people into thinking that everything is against white british people. I can tell you that if you are white and want to work then you can, you might not get a job if say an asian is better qualified or whatever but thats fair, you should not be garunteed a job because you are white, if you can provide evidence of employers breaking employment law or actual incidents of what you are claiming then please provide them and we will discuss them but right now its just nonesense.


there are hundreds of work places around by me where the entire manual labour side of the busness is worked by immigrants

Again, legal or illegal? I work for a company that has a huge immigrant work force, they work and get paid the same as everyone else. Illegal immigration is an issue but when you say immigrant and talk of issues of immigrants getting jobs over white british, it seems that you are having an issue with legal immigrants that are here working and not breaking a single law. If they are illegal and breaking the law then shop the employer and be a good citizen


I applied for a job in several warehouses before i started my current job and half the people i asked for help and directions in these places couldnt even speak english

Were they illegal? If so, shop the employer. If they were legal and got the job over you just accept that. I know some people that work in italy, france and spain with shocking language skills when they left to go there. Fortunately the work they do isn't hugely reliant upon language.

[Teratus]

No, its a different question, i am asking why you wanted them in, what merits they had in order to make voting for them worth it. Basically i know that you wanted labour out but if research highlighted to you that conservative would be worse then would voting for them be wise? The answer is no, and this is why you should make informed choices and if you are faced with two evils choose the lesser of the two.

they were the only choice though no other party had the chance of taking labour out of office
in my eyes the conservatives are the lesser of the two evils





If you have read up on BNP and still would consider casting your vote that way then you are a disgusting and dispicable person, the policies are inherently rascist, the party is inherently racist and if you were to support them you would be, by association, racist.

Actually i was mostly considering it because they want to bring back capital punishment
something which i am hugly in support of due to the growing ammount of knife, gun, rape, Drug and murder crime in the Uk
thier whole controlling immigration policy isnt that bad they want to stop more immigrants coming in as they do see we are running out of work here
have you seen the unemployment statistics in the Uk? its rediculous
we dont need people coming in to work we need to get the people already here off thier asses and into work
Labours solution to that problem was to bring in foriegn workers to fill the work void and now we are stuck with thousands of unemployed people scrounging benifits which then requires higher taxes and only effects the working majority




If other peoples opinions mean shit to you i must ask, why are you going back and forth with me about opinions? Are you saying that from the outset you don't care what i say? If so, why be on a discussion board?

atm i am finding this discussion interesting and being as you are straight edge like me I am interested in your opinion
normally i would have lost interest by now but I do not know any straight edge people offline
so i am finding this interesting



If you are getting these reactions and you get them all the time then there is probably a damn good reason for it. You do seem to have some racial hang ups and to be honest you seem to have a whole bunch of issues that need addressing. Saying you don't care is just a really half assed way of not addressing things that people bring up that you really probably should address. The racist card is over used in the sense that racism still exists so it has to be used, you don't seem like you are looking to erradicate racism in any way, you are making no positive action towards that from how you present yourself to others here. But no, this doesn't really have anything to do with who you are attracted to, but i would question what you are attracted to. I mean like you said we aren't just talking about black people here, we are including all nations and backgrounds and ethnicity, and how can you be sure you wouldn't find someone of a different race attractive?

Racism does exsist and in some cases people will play on it for various reasons
In one case i got into a fight with a drunken black guy because i happen to be friends with his GF and he didnt like that so he attacked me
after that he reported me to a police officer and said i attacked him in a racial hate attack and tried to get me arrested

The only reason I wasnt arrested that day was because his Gf stuck up for me and told the police officer exsactly what happend if she hadent been there I would have been in serious trouble for something I didnt even do

But i must correct a mistake I made there as i've kind of gotten used to classing racism and hate crime into the same catagory its not always specific racism i get thrown at me or used against me
its all sorts of discrimination so that was my bad for not separating the two




Again, legal or illegal? I work for a company that has a huge immigrant work force, they work and get paid the same as everyone else. Illegal immigration is an issue but when you say immigrant and talk of issues of immigrants getting jobs over white british, it seems that you are having an issue with legal immigrants that are here working and not breaking a single law. If they are illegal and breaking the law then shop the employer and be a good citizen
Were they illegal? If so, shop the employer. If they were legal and got the job over you just accept that. I know some people that work in italy, france and spain with shocking language skills when they left to go there. Fortunately the work they do isn't hugely reliant upon language.

I do not know if they are legal or not and the problem with that is there is absolutely no way to tell unless you are a police officer
the fact that they couldnt speak english didnt help either

[xsecx]

so yeah apparently hell has frozen over and the libdems and tories are now buddies.

[straightXed]

they were the only choice though no other party had the chance of taking labour out of office
in my eyes the conservatives are the lesser of the two evils

This is what i am asking, based on what, what do you know about conservatives that made you choose them. You are being very wishy washy here.

As for being the only party that had a chance of getting labour out...are you missing the fact that it was left to the liberal democrats to pretty much decide if labour were to stay in power or not. So yourstatement clearly doesn't ring true at all.






Actually i was mostly considering it because they want to bring back capital punishment
something which i am hugly in support of due to the growing ammount of knife, gun, rape, Drug and murder crime in the Uk

What sort of capital punishment do you support, how do you see it working elsewhere? How do you reconcile the racial hatred that would go along with getting a policy you favour to come to fruition?



thier whole controlling immigration policy isnt that bad they want to stop more immigrants coming in as they do see we are running out of work here
have you seen the unemployment statistics in the Uk? its rediculous

The word is ridiculous, not rediculous...i have seen the unemployment, do you seriously think that is down soley to immigration, people are still hiring, companies are still creating more and more work. I know a few people that were recently fired from my company and all have managed to be gainfully employed again, i know one girl who was made redundant art the start of the year. She applied for pretty much every job going and was being offered employment left right and center, she took on two jobs and still 2 weeks into her employment she was being offered work. I know it doesn't always go like that and sometimes you can take a while to find work but i refuse to believe that people can't find a job due to immigration, it is utter bullshit. They create more demand when they are here and thus they actually create jobs by being here. Its just hateful, blind ignorance. Not to mention unemployment has been higher in the early 90's where immigration was not an issue at all really. So what is ridiculous is the xenophobic attitude, stop illegal immigrants yes, ensure people who are unemployed are taking work and ensure they are really trying to find work. A lot of people won't do just any job and won't do whaever it takes to be employed and that is regardless of ethnicity and background.



we dont need people coming in to work we need to get the people already here off thier asses and into work

The two aren't related and you shouldn't penalise people wanting to because of those that don't want to work. The people working are the ones getting off their asses so don't give them crap and accuse them of stealing jobs. They went for an interview, probably lots of interviews and got work and they may not be doing a job they want to do but they are doing something. So right here i would say a lot of people using the benefit system are not doing all they could to get away from that.



Labours solution to that problem was to bring in foriegn workers to fill the work void and now we are stuck with thousands of unemployed people scrounging benifits which then requires higher taxes and only effects the working majority

Labours soloution? I think your argument here is becoming more of an EU issue.

We have unemployed people but we also have jobs. So whats the actual issue here?






atm i am finding this discussion interesting and being as you are straight edge like me I am interested in your opinion
normally i would have lost interest by now but I do not know any straight edge people offline
so i am finding this interesting

Well as you are here we can only hope you learn something from it. By the way, i didn't think you were into hardcore?







Racism does exsist and in some cases people will play on it for various reasons
In one case i got into a fight with a drunken black guy because i happen to be friends with his GF and he didnt like that so he attacked me
after that he reported me to a police officer and said i attacked him in a racial hate attack and tried to get me arrested

Yeah, well based on things you have said and where you have considered voting i will consider that as being just your side of the story as you have done a lot in this discussion to make me think that you and racism are not completely removed from one another. So we agree that racism exists, do we also agree that it is absoloutely wrong and dispicable?


The only reason I wasnt arrested that day was because his Gf stuck up for me and told the police officer exsactly what happend if she hadent been there I would have been in serious trouble for something I didnt even do

like i say, i would need to hear all sides of this story, particulary based on how flipantly you make offensive and poorly thought through statrements when typing...i mean you have time to rethink with typing but still you come across pretty bad. So with that in mind i would really put much weight in this.


But i must correct a mistake I made there as i've kind of gotten used to classing racism and hate crime into the same catagory its not always specific racism i get thrown at me or used against me
its all sorts of discrimination so that was my bad for not separating the two

Yeah i can imagine you get a lot of negative reactions not just based on your racial hatered, perhaps its something you should take the time to be bothered about instead of using lame cop outs like saying you don't care.






I do not know if they are legal or not and the problem with that is there is absolutely no way to tell unless you are a police officer
the fact that they couldnt speak english didnt help either

Well a good start would be looking at the reputablility of the employer, finding out if they do things legitimately. Gather useful information and pass it on to the UK border agency. But if you have no reason to suspect them then you would have to ask yourself why you do? I mean benefit fraud is something else that you could suspect all working people of if you so wished. Of course, employers are made to know what they are responsible for and how they should employ, you know the immigrants are breaking the law often out of desperation but the people employing illegal immigrants are commiting a crime with little on their mind but profit. Again, i think its unfair to penalise those who follow the law and work hard because of others. I can tell you that illegal immigration has caused me a fair few headaches in my current position of employment.

[xsecx]

Actually i was mostly considering it because they want to bring back capital punishment
something which i am hugly in support of due to the growing ammount of knife, gun, rape, Drug and murder crime in the Uk


living somewhere that has capital punishment, it doesn't actually have any effect on crime rates. It doesn't work as a deterrent at all and there are quite a few studies that demonstrate this. Fixing the economy, better policing and schools fix crime rates, not execution.

[Teratus]

living somewhere that has capital punishment, it doesn't actually have any effect on crime rates. It doesn't work as a deterrent at all and there are quite a few studies that demonstrate this. Fixing the economy, better policing and schools fix crime rates, not execution.

maybe

but i hate the whole nobody deserves to be excecuted statment that we hear all to much here

its effective as a punishment
why waste thousands of tax payers money every year taking care of murderers, pedofiles and stuff when its much easier, quicker and perminant to kill the bastards

I always say that the best way to solve a problem is to eliminate it completely

[xsecx]

maybe

but i hate the whole nobody deserves to be excecuted statment that we hear all to much here

its effective as a punishment
why waste thousands of tax payers money every year taking care of murderers, pedofiles and stuff when its much easier, quicker and perminant to kill the bastards

I always say that the best way to solve a problem is to eliminate it completely

because it costs an awful lot more to execute them that it does to imprison them for life.

[Teratus]

This is what i am asking, based on what, what do you know about conservatives that made you choose them. You are being very wishy washy here.

As for being the only party that had a chance of getting labour out...are you missing the fact that it was left to the liberal democrats to pretty much decide if labour were to stay in power or not. So yourstatement clearly doesn't ring true at all.


True but they backed the torries so they must have had a good reason to go against labour





What sort of capital punishment do you support, how do you see it working elsewhere? How do you reconcile the racial hatred that would go along with getting a policy you favour to come to fruition?

I support the death sentence



The word is ridiculous, not rediculous...i have seen the unemployment, do you seriously think that is down soley to immigration, people are still hiring, companies are still creating more and more work. I know a few people that were recently fired from my company and all have managed to be gainfully employed again, i know one girl who was made redundant art the start of the year. She applied for pretty much every job going and was being offered employment left right and center, she took on two jobs and still 2 weeks into her employment she was being offered work. I know it doesn't always go like that and sometimes you can take a while to find work but i refuse to believe that people can't find a job due to immigration, it is utter bullshit. They create more demand when they are here and thus they actually create jobs by being here. Its just hateful, blind ignorance. Not to mention unemployment has been higher in the early 90's where immigration was not an issue at all really. So what is ridiculous is the xenophobic attitude, stop illegal immigrants yes, ensure people who are unemployed are taking work and ensure they are really trying to find work. A lot of people won't do just any job and won't do whaever it takes to be employed and that is regardless of ethnicity and background.

Appologies for the spelling, remember though England has much more citys and is hell of alot bigger than wales

down here were not so luckey with jobs
litterally every unemployed person i know is struggling to find work
most businesses around here are laying people off I only got my job because of my step father highly reccomended me
still the business isnt doing brilliantly well and job losses are possible in the coming few years



The two aren't related and you shouldn't penalise people wanting to because of those that don't want to work. The people working are the ones getting off their asses so don't give them crap and accuse them of stealing jobs. They went for an interview, probably lots of interviews and got work and they may not be doing a job they want to do but they are doing something. So right here i would say a lot of people using the benefit system are not doing all they could to get away from that.

I wasnt


Labours soloution? I think your argument here is becoming more of an EU issue.

We have unemployed people but we also have jobs. So whats the actual issue here?

EU issue? i dont even wana get started on that this convo will never end otherwise XD





Well as you are here we can only hope you learn something from it. By the way, i didn't think you were into hardcore?

tis always good to learn something
and im not into hardcore at all
Music wise I love mostly 80's Rock and metal im not keen on much modern stuff
I have a big love for Japanese music and would love to go out there some day to see the country

as for the Hardcore side of things like gigs and stuff well i avoid them pretty much completely
I will make exceptions for a few bands that i feel are worth the time and money to see but overall i avoid gigs, festivals and all sorts of activitys like that that invole mass ammounts of people
as i have said before i am a Misanthrope so I dont like being around other people unless I know them




Yeah, well based on things you have said and where you have considered voting i will consider that as being just your side of the story as you have done a lot in this discussion to make me think that you and racism are not completely removed from one another. So we agree that racism exists, do we also agree that it is absoloutely wrong and dispicable?

we do agree on that, I dislike discrimination very much and its a massive problem in the Uk I have to deal with it dailey which is partly why i have the ability to not care about peoples opinions
and no i woudlnt say completely removed from one another
total 100% removal is impossible after all everyone laughs at racist jokes same as everyone laughs at some form of misery to other people
we are british and we have a very open sense of humour its one of our well known traits
we will laugh and make a joke out of anything





Well a good start would be looking at the reputablility of the employer, finding out if they do things legitimately. Gather useful information and pass it on to the UK border agency. But if you have no reason to suspect them then you would have to ask yourself why you do? I mean benefit fraud is something else that you could suspect all working people of if you so wished. Of course, employers are made to know what they are responsible for and how they should employ, you know the immigrants are breaking the law often out of desperation but the people employing illegal immigrants are commiting a crime with little on their mind but profit. Again, i think its unfair to penalise those who follow the law and work hard because of others. I can tell you that illegal immigration has caused me a fair few headaches in my current position of employment.

it is a pain but hard to avoid
I dont bame immigrants for wanting to come here for a better life
its not thier fault thier countrys dont care about them

[Teratus]

because it costs an awful lot more to execute them that it does to imprison them for life.

not really just hang them how much could that possibly cost

[xsecx]

not really just hang them how much could that possibly cost

yeah, you might want to actually look into it. and look into the rate of wrongfully convicted. and then think about the possibility of you being wrongfully convicted and then immediately executed after being found guilty and how awesome that probably would be for you to not be able to appeal your sentence.

Your version only works with a flawless legal system, which no country on earth has. You argument is based on emotion, but not on the facts and statistics.

[Teratus]

yeah, you might want to actually look into it. and look into the rate of wrongfully convicted. and then think about the possibility of you being wrongfully convicted and then immediately executed after being found guilty and how awesome that probably would be for you to not be able to appeal your sentence.

Your version only works with a flawless legal system, which no country on earth has. You argument is based on emotion, but not on the facts and statistics.

your right there

no country has a flawless system

actually if your smart enough then anyone can beat the law system in any country

fact is though the evidence would have to be seriously good to declare a death sentence
DNA, Witnesses basicly anything that can put you there with a almost certain guarentie

I wouldnt back a Capital punishement system that just hangs everyone

[xsecx]

True but they backed the torries so they must have had a good reason to go against labour

yes, because the tories agreed to election reform which ultimately mean more libdem seats in parliament and an actual reflection of the public's real votes. I doubt it was for any other reason.

[Teratus]

yes, because the tories agreed to election reform which ultimately mean more libdem seats in parliament and an actual reflection of the public's real votes. I doubt it was for any other reason.

Probably not all partys want the job anyway and are only in this for thier own gain

[straightXed]

True but they backed the torries so they must have had a good reason to go against labour

This still doesn't answer the question







I support the death sentence

Again you are not answering the questions.





Appologies for the spelling, remember though England has much more citys and is hell of alot bigger than wales

down here were not so luckey with jobs
litterally every unemployed person i know is struggling to find work
most businesses around here are laying people off I only got my job because of my step father highly reccomended me
still the business isnt doing brilliantly well and job losses are possible in the coming few years

Its no different, the size of england versus wales makes no difference to this. I am on many job sites and as i live really close to wales i get a lot welsh jobs in my searches, there are jobs available and people to fill them. If you are unable to find work there is a safety net but immigration can create jobs. Anyway, how do you feel about conservative proposals to cut public spending and services which is something that will result in job losses?





I wasnt Well you have been in this entire discussion




EU issue? i dont even wana get started on that this convo will never end otherwise XD

Well do you actually know much about the EU? And i didn't get you started, you initiated it by mentioning things that pertain to it.







tis always good to learn something
and im not into hardcore at all
Music wise I love mostly 80's Rock and metal im not keen on much modern stuff
I have a big love for Japanese music and would love to go out there some day to see the country

as for the Hardcore side of things like gigs and stuff well i avoid them pretty much completely
I will make exceptions for a few bands that i feel are worth the time and money to see but overall i avoid gigs, festivals and all sorts of activitys like that that invole mass ammounts of people
as i have said before i am a Misanthrope so I dont like being around other people unless I know them

You don't sound like you are really part of the straight edge sub culture at all then really, you just sound like a drug free rocker.






we do agree on that, I dislike discrimination very much and its a massive problem in the Uk I have to deal with it dailey which is partly why i have the ability to not care about peoples opinions
and no i woudlnt say completely removed from one another
total 100% removal is impossible after all everyone laughs at racist jokes same as everyone laughs at some form of misery to other people
we are british and we have a very open sense of humour its one of our well known traits
we will laugh and make a joke out of anything


I don't laugh at racist jokes, i find it totally unfunny and a clear sign that not much thought has been put into it. It sounds like your compassion for the problem runs very thin and you don't really have much of an understanding about it at all. Your ability not to care about opinions seems to manifest itself more as an ability to ignore things that require you to actually examine how you think and feel about stuff...its much easier to just say you don't care.

I also think you have a slightly odd view of british humour, british humour is usually noted for its ability to poke fun of ourselves in some self depreciating manner. Yes we have some racist comedians but they are all pretty crap and only gain attention by saying shocking things instead of actual well written funny things.






it is a pain but hard to avoid
I dont bame immigrants for wanting to come here for a better life
its not thier fault thier countrys dont care about them

What is a pain and hard to avoid exactly?

So where does the blame lie?...and you really need to distinguish if you are talking about legal or illegal immigrants because both come here for a better life, would love to know what differences it makes to your opinions when you compare legal and illegal immigrants.

[xsecx]

your right there

no country has a flawless system

actually if your smart enough then anyone can beat the law system in any country

fact is though the evidence would have to be seriously good to declare a death sentence
DNA, Witnesses basicly anything that can put you there with a almost certain guarentie

I wouldnt back a Capital punishement system that just hangs everyone

dna evidence isn't flawless, and witnesses are typically completely unreliable. So with all of this in mind, why exactly would you back capital punishment, when it isn't cheaper and doesn't stop any crime?

[Teratus]

dna evidence isn't flawless, and witnesses are typically completely unreliable. So with all of this in mind, why exactly would you back capital punishment, when it isn't cheaper and doesn't stop any crime?

i just think its easier to eliminate criminals

and i dont see how it is more exspencive than the tax payers litterally feeding clothing and providing for these people for thier sentence time

some people go to prison for most of thier lives im pretty sure that its cheaper to buy and administer a injection than to provide clothes food and other things for most of these peoples lifes

[Teratus]

Its no different, the size of england versus wales makes no difference to this. I am on many job sites and as i live really close to wales i get a lot welsh jobs in my searches, there are jobs available and people to fill them. If you are unable to find work there is a safety net but immigration can create jobs. Anyway, how do you feel about conservative proposals to cut public spending and services which is something that will result in job losses?

Dont trust all job searches
exspecially the job centre ones I applied for a job there that had already been filled 2 months before i applied for it and it was still available on thier systems

well that policy isnt a good one but then again sometimes sacrifices must be made
im not saying i agree with it though

if anything they should be reducing the money people on benifits have
a guy in work with me works the same job same hours and takes home more than double what I do because of his tax credit benifits
how is that fair? he doesnt need that much money every week he has a working partner too who is also claiming benifits its stupid and thousands of people in the Uk are doing this




Well do you actually know much about the EU? And i didn't get you started, you initiated it by mentioning things that pertain to it.

Not much I tend to stay out of the EU side of things all i do know is we put alot of money into it and its money that we cant really afford
someone told me that we put more money into the Eu than any other country but im not sure if its true




You don't sound like you are really part of the straight edge sub culture at all then really, you just sound like a drug free rocker.


Not the Hardcore side of it no hence why i havent posted in the hardcore section of this Board
I dont like those kinds of enviroments i find them boring and rocker wouldnt be appropriate either because as we all know rockers will class themselfs as hardcore going to gigs and stuff
if anything i live the rocker style but not the life



I don't laugh at racist jokes, i find it totally unfunny and a clear sign that not much thought has been put into it. It sounds like your compassion for the problem runs very thin and you don't really have much of an understanding about it at all. Your ability not to care about opinions seems to manifest itself more as an ability to ignore things that require you to actually examine how you think and feel about stuff...its much easier to just say you don't care.

I also think you have a slightly odd view of british humour, british humour is usually noted for its ability to poke fun of ourselves in some self depreciating manner. Yes we have some racist comedians but they are all pretty crap and only gain attention by saying shocking things instead of actual well written funny things.


well I gotta admire that I dont know anyone who doesnt laugh at racist jokes
I have a very open sense of humour i'll laugh at alot of things some people wouldnt find funny
but really can you help it if you find something amusing or not?

and we do poke fun at ourselfs actually ourselfs more than anything
and when i say i dont care i really do mean i really dont care lol
if you were a Misanthrope you would understand how easy it is for us to not care about stuff



What is a pain and hard to avoid exactly?

So where does the blame lie?...and you really need to distinguish if you are talking about legal or illegal immigrants because both come here for a better life, would love to know what differences it makes to your opinions when you compare legal and illegal immigrants.

people causing you problems is a pain and hard to avoid
were encouraged as a speicies to co exsist and to get along even when we dont want to
so in the end everyone has someone who just annoys them or someone who they dont want arround or someone causing you problems its just a side effect of having a social culture

and my problem is with Illigal immigrants i have nothing against people who are here legally

[xsecx]

i just think its easier to eliminate criminals

and i dont see how it is more exspencive than the tax payers litterally feeding clothing and providing for these people for thier sentence time

some people go to prison for most of thier lives im pretty sure that its cheaper to buy and administer a injection than to provide clothes food and other things for most of these peoples lifes

you could try looking at the research that's been done about it? There's a lot of it. It should also show you that it isn't anywhere near as simplistic as you're making it out to be.

[Teratus]

you could try looking at the research that's been done about it? There's a lot of it. It should also show you that it isn't anywhere near as simplistic as you're making it out to be.

maybe

but then again they could at least use criminals for exsperiments instead of torturing animals with them

after all what better way to test new medical treatments and cosmetics than to use a human being as a test subject

[straightXed]

Dont trust all job searches
exspecially the job centre ones I applied for a job there that had already been filled 2 months before i applied for it and it was still available on thier systems

Again you aren't answering what i have asked at all which leads me to believe you are unable to provide an answer as the questions i ask highlight the flaws in what you say.

As for not trusting the searches, i have applied for a fair ammount of postions on the searches i use and all the positions were available at time of posting and have closing dates for applicants etc. I have been receiving updated searches via email for years and the point remains that there are jobs in wales.


well that policy isnt a good one but then again sometimes sacrifices must be made
im not saying i agree with it though

The reason i raise this point is not only do you not agree with it you never even acknowledged it. You made a blind and uninformed vote.


if anything they should be reducing the money people on benifits have
a guy in work with me works the same job same hours and takes home more than double what I do because of his tax credit benifits
how is that fair? he doesnt need that much money every week he has a working partner too who is also claiming benifits its stupid and thousands of people in the Uk are doing this

And why do you think they are entitled to working tax credits?






Not much I tend to stay out of the EU side of things all i do know is we put alot of money into it and its money that we cant really afford
someone told me that we put more money into the Eu than any other country but im not sure if its true

But you know nothing about politics in this country either, if you did you may be able to actually answer all the questions and points you keep ommiting to answer or address.







Not the Hardcore side of it no hence why i havent posted in the hardcore section of this Board
I dont like those kinds of enviroments i find them boring and rocker wouldnt be appropriate either because as we all know rockers will class themselfs as hardcore going to gigs and stuff
if anything i live the rocker style but not the life

So you clearly aren't straightedge.






well I gotta admire that I dont know anyone who doesnt laugh at racist jokes
I have a very open sense of humour i'll laugh at alot of things some people wouldnt find funny
but really can you help it if you find something amusing or not?

Well most people here won't find racist jokes funny and to be honest i think it shows the level you are at if you are laughing at stuff that really isn't funny. And if you find enforcing hateful predjudice amusing and feel that insight into the actuality of that behaviour can't be change then you are really unfortunate.


and we do poke fun at ourselfs actually ourselfs more than anything
and when i say i dont care i really do mean i really dont care lol
if you were a Misanthrope you would understand how easy it is for us to not care about stuff

Wow, you get stuff wrong a lot don't you. Hating humankind shows emotion and caring for something. Its not being completely indifferent and not caring at all, its a case of having a passionate hatred and actually feeling something. And it remains apparent that you just use the idea of not caring as a way to shift focus from things that challenge you too much.




people causing you problems is a pain and hard to avoid
were encouraged as a speicies to co exsist and to get along even when we dont want to
so in the end everyone has someone who just annoys them or someone who they dont want arround or someone causing you problems its just a side effect of having a social culture


and my problem is with Illigal immigrants i have nothing against people who are here legally

Well if thats the case you should be specific and not lump them all together, you should not assume that just because their english isn't strong that they are illegal, you should call for action on illegal immigration not legal immigrants ala BNP. Basically you should just rearrange and retract most of the things you have said in this thread up until now.

[xsecx]

maybe

but then again they could at least use criminals for exsperiments instead of torturing animals with them

after all what better way to test new medical treatments and cosmetics than to use a human being as a test subject

and doing that, you're still stuck with the same problems that exist with execution. it just seems like you don't really like to research things or be informed.

[Teratus]

So you clearly aren't straightedge.

Yes I am
Im just not involved it the Hardcore Sub Culture






Well most people here won't find racist jokes funny and to be honest i think it shows the level you are at if you are laughing at stuff that really isn't funny. And if you find enforcing hateful predjudice amusing and feel that insight into the actuality of that behaviour can't be change then you are really unfortunate.

each to thier own i guess
I find alot of things funny that you probably wouldnt its nothign more than a difference in humour
I probably wouldnt find things that you enjoy funny





Wow, you get stuff wrong a lot don't you. Hating humankind shows emotion and caring for something. Its not being completely indifferent and not caring at all, its a case of having a passionate hatred and actually feeling something. And it remains apparent that you just use the idea of not caring as a way to shift focus from things that challenge you too much.


well if i dont care about it or lose interest is there really any reason for me to continue wasting time on it?

[xsecx]

Yes I am
Im just not involved it the Hardcore Sub Culture


then how are you straight edge as opposed to just being someone who is drug free?

[straightXed]

Yes I am
Im just not involved it the Hardcore Sub Culture


Straightedge is part of hardcore, if you seperate it you just get being drug free.

And you need to answer the questions still, or are you conceeding on those points and withdrawing your statements?







each to thier own i guess
I find alot of things funny that you probably wouldnt its nothign more than a difference in humour
I probably wouldnt find things that you enjoy funny

Racism is based on hate and fear and extreme close minded thinking, making it a joke does nothing but enforces stereotypes and breeds more segregation. I find things funny that don't have to carry all that baggage around. Most people are just to lazy to address this and form their own opinion on it and just ignore the facts about racism...you fit that bill well.







well if i dont care about it or lose interest is there really any reason for me to continue wasting time on it?

Stop wasting time and accept you are wrong then, which you clearly are. I mean you can't change the meaning of the word to suit you.

I mean you said you didn't care and then said you were enjoying the discussion but now you are not even addressing the majority of what is being discussed and just acting like you don't care because its an easier option than learning and actually addressing and evaluating how you think about things.

I know you care enough to respond to this, when you do, go back and address all the points you just ignored or at least say that you are no longer sure that your statements hold up.

[Teratus]

nah thanks

I've gotten bored of this arguing

[straightXed]

nah thanks

I've gotten bored of this arguing

Which translates as you have no legitimate arguement to counter what i have posted. So no argument about you not being straightedge, no ability to answer the questions asked of you, no issue about the negative impact racist jokes have, and no comment on the fact you chop and change when you care or not and it nicely coincides with when your arguement is exposed for having no substance.

[Teratus]

Which translates as you have no legitimate arguement to counter what i have posted. So no argument about you not being straightedge, no ability to answer the questions asked of you, no issue about the negative impact racist jokes have, and no comment on the fact you chop and change when you care or not and it nicely coincides with when your arguement is exposed for having no substance.

Whatever man think what you like

I just cant be arsed with arguing anymore i've got better things to do

[straightXed]

Whatever man think what you like

I just cant be arsed with arguing anymore i've got better things to do


Like what, posting about how you can't be bothered to argue? Sounds great! Truth is you posted loads without adressing anything that i put to you, you weren't doing anything better you just had no cohesive argument to begin with so you were bound to get to this point. Now its just interesting that you are unable to take what was said on board and refuse to accept your arguments were flawed and you need to actually rethink things. Easier to just say you don't care and that you have better stuff to do though i guess.