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View Full Version : Hello, my name is Vegan Freak



CarlaRant
09-17-2009, 01:16 AM
As many of you know, I started working at a new school this academic year. We had our Open House on Monday, so many of us teachers didn't go home right after school. Instead, we stayed to prep our rooms. When my tummy was rumbling, I sought out my colleagues to see what they had planned for dinner.

Of course, when we ordered at Chiptole, they noticed that my Burrito Bowl didn't include cheese or sour cream. Then the questions came: Why are you vegan? Do you eat fish/chicken/eggs/milk? What do you do for protein/calcium/vitamins? What do you eat exactly? Is your husband vegan? How are you going to raise your kids? Is it an ethical thing? Is it a religious thing? Are you part of PETA? Is your family veg*n? Et cetera, et cetera.

Or the stories: "I used to be/knew someone who was veg*n once...I/they got really sick" or "I could never do that, I like ___________ too much"

I try to answer questions as tactfully as posisble, but it makes me uncomfortable at times to be put on the spot. It also gets to a point where some people go on the offensive about their decision, which then puts me on the defensive. I tend to not tell people that I'm vegan right off the bat. I'm not a pushy individual and don't ever want to come off as abrasive.

So anyway, do any of you encounter this as much as I do? Do you ever just want to print up a card to hand to these people?

xGriffox
09-17-2009, 01:19 AM
So anyway, do any of you encounter this as much as I do? Do you ever just want to print up a card to hand to these people?
I am fortunate to be part of a community that understands veganism and to live with someone who is also vegan straight edge, but I do become tired of such explanations at family junctions or other social events where there aren't many punks/radicals/whatever.

SgtD
09-17-2009, 12:45 PM
As many of you know, I started working at a new school this academic year. We had our Open House on Monday, so many of us teachers didn't go home right after school. Instead, we stayed to prep our rooms. When my tummy was rumbling, I sought out my colleagues to see what they had planned for dinner.

Of course, when we ordered at Chiptole, they noticed that my Burrito Bowl didn't include cheese or sour cream. Then the questions came: Why are you vegan? Do you eat fish/chicken/eggs/milk? What do you do for protein/calcium/vitamins? What do you eat exactly? Is your husband vegan? How are you going to raise your kids? Is it an ethical thing? Is it a religious thing? Are you part of PETA? Is your family veg*n? Et cetera, et cetera.

Or the stories: "I used to be/knew someone who was veg*n once...I/they got really sick" or "I could never do that, I like ___________ too much"

I try to answer questions as tactfully as posisble, but it makes me uncomfortable at times to be put on the spot. It also gets to a point where some people go on the offensive about their decision, which then puts me on the defensive. I tend to not tell people that I'm vegan right off the bat. I'm not a pushy individual and don't ever want to come off as abrasive.

So anyway, do any of you encounter this as much as I do? Do you ever just want to print up a card to hand to these people?
fuck, i would hate to be in that situation so much. why care what other people eat, or what choices/personal decisions they make? even if they meant well with all these questions, it must have been really annoying.

linsee
09-17-2009, 06:51 PM
One of my best friends and her husband are vegan, and that has definitely helped me understand veganism a lot better and not be one of those people that sounds like an idiot when speaking to someone that is vegan. I still catch myself worrying sometimes about if there's something they can or cannot eat when we go out, but it's always fine. They have taught me to love lots of delicious vegan things as well. I've thought about trying out veganism, but I just don't think it's something I could do at this point.

CarlaRant
09-17-2009, 09:54 PM
I am fortunate to be part of a community that understands veganism and to live with someone who is also vegan straight edge, but I do become tired of such explanations at family junctions or other social events where there aren't many punks/radicals/whatever.

Lucky you. My husband is vegetarian, but not vegan nor straightedge. Our general circle of friends are neither. I guess I miss not having to explain myself. At least these people can pronounce the word "vegan" correctly.


fuck, i would hate to be in that situation so much. why care what other people eat, or what choices/personal decisions they make? even if they meant well with all these questions, it must have been really annoying.
My sentiments exactly. :)


One of my best friends and her husband are vegan, and that has definitely helped me understand veganism a lot better and not be one of those people that sounds like an idiot when speaking to someone that is vegan. I still catch myself worrying sometimes about if there's something they can or cannot eat when we go out, but it's always fine. They have taught me to love lots of delicious vegan things as well. I've thought about trying out veganism, but I just don't think it's something I could do at this point.
That's cool. Most of my friends are accepting and are probably in a similiar boat as you. They tend to worry on occassion, particularly when we go out to eat. Eventually they get over the whole "can she eat this? It touched the meat pan...uh..." moment and realize that I am quite capable of figuring it out on my own.

linsee
09-17-2009, 11:12 PM
That's cool. Most of my friends are accepting and are probably in a similiar boat as you. They tend to worry on occassion, particularly when we go out to eat. Eventually they get over the whole "can she eat this? It touched the meat pan...uh..." moment and realize that I am quite capable of figuring it out on my own.

Isn't it funny how everyone thinks you can't figure out what you can or cannot eat? Every non-vegan becomes the vegan expert.

funwithpinetrees
09-20-2009, 07:46 PM
As a teacher I think it is like a teaching experience, and people are interested in different points of view and lifestyles. You might be the first vegan they met, and even though for you, you are the line of life and you intersect with all these people who are always curious, these people intersect vegans occasionally. They don't know what the deal is. and like being vegan is almost like taking a stand against like animal oppression so like maybe it is cool to talk about it and explain your views and let them know as much as they want.

You know one cool thing is like being the person who tells anyone. And if you don't want to talk about it change the subject.

CarlaRant
09-20-2009, 09:39 PM
I guess my general annoyance is when the people won't let the subject drop when I attempt to change it. Even moreso, is when they get defensive.

I don't understand this sentence: "You know one cool thing is like being the person who tells anyone." I am always open to converse with anyone who asks, but like I said, it's when people get defensive about their decisions.

CarlaRant
02-07-2010, 08:22 AM
I picked up "Vegan Freak: Being Vegan in a Non-Vegan World" yesterday from the library and just finished it this morning. It's different than the other books I've read because it doesn't fully revolve around the definition of veganism and health. Instead, it focuses on talking to non-vegans without completely alienating them. There was even a section on conversing with vegetarians and ex-veg*ns, which can be the most infuriating.

I would highly recommend this book to any of my veggie friends. :)

straightXed
02-07-2010, 01:18 PM
I picked up "Vegan Freak: Being Vegan in a Non-Vegan World" yesterday from the library and just finished it this morning. It's different than the other books I've read because it doesn't fully revolve around the definition of veganism and health. Instead, it focuses on talking to non-vegans without completely alienating them. There was even a section on conversing with vegetarians and ex-veg*ns, which can be the most infuriating.

I would highly reocmmnend this book to any of my veggie friends. :)


yay, i'm an ex-vegan!

annex_punk
02-25-2010, 06:05 PM
yeah, i used to be vegan too, but am no longer. actually, to be more accurate, i was a vegetarian for 2 years. then i decided to go vegan. i lasted 2 weeks and broke the "fast" with 3 hamburgers. i craved them so much, but when i actually ate them, they didnt even taste all that good. i think theres something in the meat itself that addicts us, maybe a feeling we get when we ingest blood, a sort of rush, or "effect" we get from it. anyways, ups to you if you can keep a strict vegan diet, im down to cheese, and chicken or fish twice a week.

lo0m
02-26-2010, 01:09 AM
both milk products and meat are actually mild drugs per se..

annex_punk
02-26-2010, 01:27 AM
both milk products and meat are actually mild drugs per se..

i kinda had a feeling. naturally they wouldnt clinically be considered so, i dont think the medical community would say that drinking milk is mind altering. but if you would consider it to be mind or body altering enough, woudnt any food fall into the same category? if you dont eat for a week, then eat vegetable soup, it will have a very pleasing effect on the body and mind!? just some thoughts for debate.

SgtD
02-26-2010, 05:03 AM
both milk products and meat are actually mild drugs per se..

i almost believe you. almost. how is milk a drug? how is meat a drug? why do you always have the need to put your foot in your mouth?

lo0m
02-26-2010, 05:48 AM
i almost believe you. almost. how is milk a drug? how is meat a drug? why do you always have the need to put your foot in your mouth?

I fail to find a proof for meat being a drug (will try to find that article, I promise - it was basically about some chemicals in meat, which alter brain function and are responsible for dementia - meateaters are twice likely to develop it), however i do have one in case of milk. Milk contains proteine called caseine. Caseine is converted by digestive organs into peptide casomorphine. Which is an opioid. It's there for the babies to return to their mothers and to drink as much milk as possible (in order to grow up and gain strength). Casomorphine acts on adults i.a. as histamine releaser, which is cause to allergic reactions. It (histamine) contracts smooth muscles, influences gastric acid secretion, and in high doses it can cause anaphylactic shock... Also cheese has even much higher doses of caseine as it makes the cheese melt. Caseine causes addiction and can (in case of long term use) lead to cancer tumours.

btw i didn't mean to say that meat or milk will get you high as heroin, pervitin, etc.. more comparable to chocolate or tea..

xsecx
02-26-2010, 10:46 AM
Caseine causes addiction and can (in case of long term use) lead to cancer tumours.

proof for this statement?

lo0m
03-01-2010, 12:55 AM
proof for this statement?

According to The China Study (Cornell University, Oxford University and China’s health research laboratory joint research - 65000 adults researched for 20 years), quoting, "the connection between casein and cancer was so profound that the scientists could literally turn cancer growth on and off in the laboratory animals, like a light switch, simply by altering the level of casein protein in their diets. Interestingly, they also found that feeding the animals the same levels of plant based protein (gluten and soy) did not at all promote cancer growth."

"The peptides from gluten [gliadorphin] and casein [casomorphin] are important because they react with opiate receptors in the brain, thus mimicking the effects of opiate drugs like heroin and morphine."—Dr. Charles Parker

""Opiates hide inside casein, the main dairy protein. As casein molecules are digested, they break apart to release tiny opiate molecules, called casomorphins. One of these compounds has about one-tenth the opiate strength of morphine. The especially addicting power of cheese may be due to the fact that the process of cheese-making removes water, lactose and whey proteins so that casein is concentrated."

hope that is what you've been asking for. I'm not trying to put this as straight, unshakeable facts (you know i'm little bit sceptic about "error free" science) but as far as i know these are the latest discoveries int his field..

xsecx
03-01-2010, 08:58 AM
According to The China Study (Cornell University, Oxford University and China’s health research laboratory joint research - 65000 adults researched for 20 years), quoting, "the connection between casein and cancer was so profound that the scientists could literally turn cancer growth on and off in the laboratory animals, like a light switch, simply by altering the level of casein protein in their diets. Interestingly, they also found that feeding the animals the same levels of plant based protein (gluten and soy) did not at all promote cancer growth."

"The peptides from gluten [gliadorphin] and casein [casomorphin] are important because they react with opiate receptors in the brain, thus mimicking the effects of opiate drugs like heroin and morphine."—Dr. Charles Parker

""Opiates hide inside casein, the main dairy protein. As casein molecules are digested, they break apart to release tiny opiate molecules, called casomorphins. One of these compounds has about one-tenth the opiate strength of morphine. The especially addicting power of cheese may be due to the fact that the process of cheese-making removes water, lactose and whey proteins so that casein is concentrated."

hope that is what you've been asking for. I'm not trying to put this as straight, unshakeable facts (you know i'm little bit sceptic about "error free" science) but as far as i know these are the latest discoveries int his field..

The cancer stuff seems up in the air for most things. You'll find studies that show pretty much that everything causes cancer and you'll find other than it doesn't. I was mostly asking about the addiction/morphine angle. Logically it doesn't really make sense. if it was strong enough to cause an addiction, it should also be strong enough to be felt by the individual. Granted, I don't eat very much cheese but I've never felt anything similar to the time I given morphine after surgery.
I also found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8169274

which doesn't look like it's very likely that it is addictive.

I don't think anyone would argue that cheese is the healthiest thing to eat but I think it's stretch to call addictive and a drug.

lo0m
03-02-2010, 01:22 AM
The cancer stuff seems up in the air for most things. You'll find studies that show pretty much that everything causes cancer and you'll find other than it doesn't.

yes, but i still see a slight difference between series of studies and propably the biggest nutrinional research in human history. Which again doesn't mean that we should take it without questions, but still..

I was mostly asking about the addiction/morphine angle. Logically it doesn't really make sense. if it was strong enough to cause an addiction, it should also be strong enough to be felt by the individual. Granted, I don't eat very much cheese but I've never felt anything similar to the time I given morphine after surgery.

the question is: how do they measure it? are we talking about straight 1:10 ratio in let's say miligrams? i don't even remotely know what doses of morphine they use after surgery. I read about 4mg per kg - but that doesn't make much sense, or does it?. Do you fell effect of chocolate on you? I've read about people who didn't eat cheese for some time and when they ate it, they felt a little bit high. I guess it can be weight/age/type of cheese dependent.


I also found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8169274

thanks. it's 15 years old and they don't specify which casomorphine they use (seems that casein in human and goat milk doesn't have the same effects as that in cow milk).. good point anyway


which doesn't look like it's very likely that it is addictive.

I don't think anyone would argue that cheese is the healthiest thing to eat but I think it's stretch to call addictive and a drug.

as i said, i didn't mean to compare effects of cheese to those of morphine/heroin. maybe it is comparable. more to chocolate, coffee and other similar substances, which act as drugs (i.e. does affect brain in some way and may in case of long term use cause and "addiction" - not comparable to heavy drug addiction - so no physical addiction as in case of morphine) but are not recognized as such.

xsecx
03-02-2010, 09:16 AM
yes, but i still see a slight difference between series of studies and propably the biggest nutrinional research in human history. Which again doesn't mean that we should take it without questions, but still..


Are you talking about the china study? There's actually been a lot of issues found with it.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=385




the question is: how do they measure it? are we talking about straight 1:10 ratio in let's say miligrams? i don't even remotely know what doses of morphine they use after surgery. I read about 4mg per kg - but that doesn't make much sense, or does it?. Do you fell effect of chocolate on you? I've read about people who didn't eat cheese for some time and when they ate it, they felt a little bit high. I guess it can be weight/age/type of cheese dependent.

No I don't, which is why I still eat chocolate. I haven't read anything that leads me to believe that there's any validity that cheese has a morphine like effect when consumed. I find things that say

"But there is no proof that casomorphins enter the bloodstreams of adults, turning them into Brie-gobbling junkies. Researchers have uncovered some evidence that certain foods stimulate more dopamine release in mammals than others--critical to the legal argument that those foods are unreasonably addictive and dangerous--but their findings are tentative or difficult to replicate in humans"

They also talk about chocolate as well.
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2005/0110/063_print.html



thanks. it's 15 years old and they don't specify which casomorphine they use (seems that casein in human and goat milk doesn't have the same effects as that in cow milk).. good point anyway


I'm sure they do in the actual study, just not in the abstract.



as i said, i didn't mean to compare effects of cheese to those of morphine/heroin. maybe it is comparable. more to chocolate, coffee and other similar substances, which act as drugs (i.e. does affect brain in some way and may in case of long term use cause and "addiction" - not comparable to heavy drug addiction - so no physical addiction as in case of morphine) but are not recognized as such.

yeah, but what bothers me about it that the only place I've found any information about this has been on vegan websites. Sites with an agenda. I haven't found any nonbiased sources that mention this at all.