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xMaggotAzzAx
08-10-2009, 04:39 PM
I absolutely and totally despise this religious group and I am not a religious person. However, I wanted to see everyone's views on the matter especially Christians, whether they count them as part of the Christian faith or if they could denounce them etc. I know they have to be allowed their own beliefs but they are horrible, offensive and downright disrespectful. Thanks for sharing.

xKILLERx
08-10-2009, 09:05 PM
ok im a christian and i think what there doing is wrong

xsecx
08-10-2009, 09:58 PM
ok im a christian and i think what there doing is wrong

well your god does hate homosexuals.

lo0m
08-11-2009, 02:22 AM
that's not true i believe.. he loves homosexuals but he banned homosexuality.. love the sinner, hate the sin, i believe.. just to be precise

straightXed
08-11-2009, 09:30 AM
that's not true i believe.. he loves homosexuals but he banned homosexuality.. love the sinner, hate the sin, i believe.. just to be precise

But he thinks they should die...not exactly loving is it.

xsecx
08-11-2009, 09:38 AM
that's not true i believe.. he loves homosexuals but he banned homosexuality.. love the sinner, hate the sin, i believe.. just to be precise

just to be precise, calling it a sin is still showing hatred from homosexuality. And they're still condemned to hell for it so I can't really see how you could spin that into love.

xMaggotAzzAx
08-11-2009, 03:05 PM
However, God says he loves all of his 'flock' even if i am not christian. However, this is if they repent meaning they are no longer homosexual. is there references to homosexuality directly in the bible?

On another note I was more disgusted at them picketing a dead soldiers funeral with a sign saying God hates dead soldiers, this was downright hateful and disrespectul whatever their beliefs it made me so angry I wished someone would kill them.

xsecx
08-11-2009, 05:22 PM
However, God says he loves all of his 'flock' even if i am not christian. However, this is if they repent meaning they are no longer homosexual. is there references to homosexuality directly in the bible?

On another note I was more disgusted at them picketing a dead soldiers funeral with a sign saying God hates dead soldiers, this was downright hateful and disrespectul whatever their beliefs it made me so angry I wished someone would kill them.


the story of Saddam and Gomorrah. If that's how god loves his flock, then count me out.

straightXed
08-11-2009, 05:45 PM
However, God says he loves all of his 'flock' even if i am not christian. However, this is if they repent meaning they are no longer homosexual. is there references to homosexuality directly in the bible?

Its not really loving if they have to be someone they are not in order to be loved though and yes there are direct references in the bible claiming it to be a sin and an abomination and that they should be put to death. Oh, and obviously there is the small matter of a destroying cities of those that lived "ungodly".


On another note I was more disgusted at them picketing a dead soldiers funeral with a sign saying God hates dead soldiers, this was downright hateful and disrespectul whatever their beliefs it made me so angry I wished someone would kill them.

God is great at hating, he does a lot of that for a compassionate god. What i would really love is christians to actually be upfront about all the things they hate and all the things their religion actually stands for because way to many just seem intent on ignoring the bad bits. I find the religion to be very hateful and disrespectful and just wish all the people that omit the negative aspects would either omit the religion entirely or agree with it entirely. There is too much ignorant belief, the religion lacks true compassion and i feel many who follow really aren't thinking straight, in some crazy way, the abhorant, unsavory, disgusting gay hating christians actually seem more on the ball. I mean at least their beliefs coincide with that of their god.

xMaggotAzzAx
08-12-2009, 06:39 AM
be upfront about all the things they hate and all the things their religion actually stands for because way to many just seem intent on ignoring the bad bits..

That's a good point as you never really hear Christians in the majority talking about the negative points of Christianity or what God dislikes except for putting fear into people by rattling on about how you WILL go to hell if you don't do as we say. If Westboro is what Christianity turns into then and should be then I would dislike it even more as a religion as with the anti-gay thoughts it likes to a kind of ancient facism in a strange way

lo0m
08-12-2009, 06:52 AM
just to be precise, calling it a sin is still showing hatred from homosexuality. And they're still condemned to hell for it so I can't really see how you could spin that into love.

no, you're wrong..everyone is a sinner according to Bible but everyone is also loved (according to you everyone should be hated?).. and i didn't spin anything.. i just pointed your mistake that doesn't really mean nothing regarding the topic...

xsecx
08-12-2009, 07:35 AM
no, you're wrong..everyone is a sinner according to Bible but everyone is also loved (according to you everyone should be hated?).. and i didn't spin anything.. i just pointed your mistake that doesn't really mean nothing regarding the topic...

well no, the bible contradicts itself. Jesus says that he loves everyone, but then god does a bunch of shit that shows that he doesn't and jesus never actually addressed that and condoned those actions. You can't really argue the whole jesus is love thing when his love is conditional. If you don't accept jesus as god and don't stop sinning you'll go to hell, that's a fucked up kind of love.

xsecx
08-12-2009, 07:37 AM
That's a good point as you never really hear Christians in the majority talking about the negative points of Christianity or what God dislikes except for putting fear into people by rattling on about how you WILL go to hell if you don't do as we say. If Westboro is what Christianity turns into then and should be then I would dislike it even more as a religion as with the anti-gay thoughts it likes to a kind of ancient facism in a strange way

that hatred has always been there. Catholics for instance are anti gay. this is nothing new, they're just more direct about it. Find some pentacostals in england and talk to them, I think you'll be surprised at what you hear.

lo0m
08-12-2009, 08:38 AM
well no, the bible contradicts itself. Jesus says that he loves everyone, but then god does a bunch of shit that shows that he doesn't and jesus never actually addressed that and condoned those actions. You can't really argue the whole jesus is love thing when his love is conditional. If you don't accept jesus as god and don't stop sinning you'll go to hell, that's a fucked up kind of love.

well, yes, it is.. i just wanted point out your post was misleading... you fixed that with this post better than I did, i agree with it :-)

xMaggotAzzAx
08-12-2009, 07:13 PM
Catholics for instance are anti gay. this is nothing new, they're just more direct about it.

Yet, haven't they changed the 'rules' , if you will, on how gay priests can still give sermons etc. if so they cannot change the rules written in the bible or that would just be corruption of the system because they are priests in the hierarchy, would it not?

funwithpinetrees
08-13-2009, 04:17 AM
However, God says he loves all of his 'flock' even if i am not christian. However, this is if they repent meaning they are no longer homosexual. is there references to homosexuality directly in the bible?

On another note I was more disgusted at them picketing a dead soldiers funeral with a sign saying God hates dead soldiers, this was downright hateful and disrespectul whatever their beliefs it made me so angry I wished someone would kill them.

Oh the Westboro Baptist Church, what a bunch of silly dillies.
Whenever they are brought up i think of that thing people say, "Don't feed the trolls." They are in real life trolls, just trying to rile people up.
For example Can I direct attention to the point that you disagree with them so much that you wish for their death? That is sort of hateful, I think. I have felt that way about them before, but then I realized that I was the hateful one and they are just a bunch of buffoons that aren't worth anyone's time. I don't like it when they are portrayed in the media as a legitimate group. They are just an extremely small group who make up like .00000015 percent of Americans.

The beliefs of this group are considered false by every religious group other than themselves. Even the most fundamentalist, gay-hating groups don't think that god kills innocent people in disasters to punish other people. That violates the logic of religion. No one of any faith believes in anything this group has to say. In fact, I do not think they believe it themselves. If they believed in a super angry omnipotent God, would they be deceiving people about the scripture, and leading them astray?

The Westboro Baptist Church is something that I think is really funny and amusing. They are like one big postmodernist joke; putting together lots of different cultural things together and then ending it with because God Hates Fags. I appreciate what they do for freedom of speech rights, even if what they say is immensely disrespectful. I also appreciate what they do for gay rights, because they have undermined the credibility of other anti gay groups. Of course this is a double edge sword, it also tarnishes what evangelical Christianity is to a lot of people.

If you have a problem with them, ignore them. They are an Internet troll. They are fame obsessed absurdists babbling on in an ironic parody of themselves. They prove that if you are outrageous enough then you can capture peoples attention, and become famousish.

By paying attention to them, talking about them, legitimizing them, or getting mad at them you are only making them stronger. So if you are abhorred by them the best thing you can do is ignore them in every way. They are a stupid thought virus. If you hear about them it makes you sick and disgusted, and then it spreads more. And it is not like getting this virus makes you smarter or more insightful, it just makes you sick. So how about we avoid spreading it?

They want people to be angry at them. It is funny because the Westboro Baptist Church claims to be hateful, but I think they are just disrespectful and ignorant. People claim they despise them, but that is just a weasel word for a terrible feeling inside you that is hatefulness. So avoid that.

funwithpinetrees
08-13-2009, 05:04 AM
Also I feel like people here don't understand Christianity the way i do.

I think people on this thread have an anti-Christianity attitude that is tainting an unbiased objective atmosphere of uncompromised discourse.

I understand the need to rip apart religion and criticize it immensely, so that it cannot ever control people as much as it did in the past.

But there is nonreligion, there is atheism, and there is anti-Christianity. And it is not like anti-Christianity is a big civil rights or oppression issue, it is more of an equality and not being presumptuous thing.

Do you know what I mean, because I spent a long time trying to articulate that, and I don't even know if I mean it anymore.

But maybe I feel this way because I am a Christian.

However I think everything that has been said in regards to Christianity and also it's view on LGBT stuff is not what I believe in. I don't think homosexuality as we know it today is even known in the Bible. When you say Catholics are anti-gay, it is not like they against gay love, it is just because they don't understand what it means to be gay. They believe that the only purpose of sexual activity is procreation, and so they are just not in favor of anyone having sex, or masturbating, If they could make babies since they hold life as sacred. I don't believe in that at all, but it is not like they hate gay people. They really love them and don't understand that it would be best if they loved gay love instead of not knowing what to do.

I also don't believe homosexuals are going to hell for any reason. Even if I didn't believe in universal salvation, I think that God made love and everyone special, and that being queer or gay or bi is using love in a different way which still reflects the glory of God.
But I believe that everyone will be saved whether they accept Christ or not.


Here is a thing that may or may not be relevant that I skimmed through while thinking about hings discussed here http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
I think that is an easily resolvable issue, God loves gay people how they are and for what they do, and loves their love.
What I don't like or know how to reconcile is all the killing in the Bible, just take the plague of firstborn for example. That was cruel if it happened.

This is why I think, Why is it all or nothing with the bible and religion? What is wrong with disagreeing with something you read and not accepting it and following it, while following other things you do agree with?

That may undermine everything I have said, and be really contradictory, but I wouldn't think less of someone if they held fast to what was true and good I would say good job at discerning.

straightXed
08-13-2009, 10:05 AM
I don't think homosexuality as we know it today is even known in the Bible.

What makes you say that?




I also don't believe homosexuals are going to hell for any reason.

So is the bible wrong? Or simply full of contradiction and you have to choose which bit suits?



But I believe that everyone will be saved whether they accept Christ or not.

So why the focus on people needing to accept god, again i must ask, is the bible wrong?



Here is a thing that may or may not be relevant that I skimmed through while thinking about hings discussed here http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian
I think that is an easily resolvable issue, God loves gay people how they are and for what they do, and loves their love.

To be honest the link does not really hold much weight with me...i mean it doesn't give what i would call a satisfactory alternative to the versus citing homosexuality. It just simply claims they refer to something else. Its pretty weak really.


This is why I think, Why is it all or nothing with the bible and religion? What is wrong with disagreeing with something you read and not accepting it and following it, while following other things you do agree with?

The problem is this is supposedly what god said, you are free to disagree but it does kind of then suggest that you think god is wrong...do you think god is wrong? If so that makes your god fallable doesn't it?

lo0m
08-14-2009, 01:36 AM
hey funwithpinetrees, thanx for sharing your thoughts with us.. I could see some provoking thoughts of yours, but I won't question your faith from the position of unbeliever.. your thoughts are the change in church that i would love to see...

funwithpinetrees
08-17-2009, 03:18 AM
I have thought a lot about these questions and I spent a whole lot of time answering parts, so here is one part. I really liked them and they helped me to identify and shape my ideas about what I have to believe in to be a Christian and all that





The problem is this is supposedly what god said, you are free to disagree but it does kind of then suggest that you think god is wrong...do you think god is wrong? If so that makes your god fallable doesn't it?
The problem is this is supposedly what god said, you are free to disagree but it does kind of then suggest that you think god is wrong...do you think god is wrong? If so that makes your god fallible doesn't it?

These are good questions that make me think, I know exactly what I believe, but they sort of lead me to think that standardly, Christians and religious people do not believe what I believe. I have a really super liberal view about religion that is almost an atheist Unitarian Universalist perspective.

In this concept of God that exists in the Judeo-Christian tradition I hear God is infallible. Now, I fully accept the fact that everything in my religion quite possibly be a series of myths based in story telling and explanations for things 4000 years ago. So when I talk about God I think why not make it all the way, and not some wishy washy demigod who is sort of something. To me if there is God then He (and I use that term loosely) would be infallible.
The bible is the word of God but it was definitely written by people. Even orthodox Jews in the Beit Midrash can tell you that there is a discrepancy between where it says the Lord and where it says God. The books of Moses were written by two different people and compiled by a third sometime later. And Luke wrote Luke and Habakkuk wrote Habakuk
So if something is wrong it is a human error. Or at least that is how religious people account for the inaccuracies.
If there is a God Xe would not be wrong. If there is not a God then people were wrong. No big deal either way. I can have my cake and eat it too. That is not empirical at all, I know! But it is really like an almost extended conditioning thing.
I just may be the worst Christian apologist ever.

straightXed
08-17-2009, 10:47 AM
I have thought a lot about these questions and I spent a whole lot of time answering parts, so here is one part. I really liked them and they helped me to identify and shape my ideas about what I have to believe in to be a Christian and all that


The problem is this is supposedly what god said, you are free to disagree but it does kind of then suggest that you think god is wrong...do you think god is wrong? If so that makes your god fallible doesn't it?

These are good questions that make me think, I know exactly what I believe, but they sort of lead me to think that standardly, Christians and religious people do not believe what I believe. I have a really super liberal view about religion that is almost an atheist Unitarian Universalist perspective.

In this concept of God that exists in the Judeo-Christian tradition I hear God is infallible. Now, I fully accept the fact that everything in my religion quite possibly be a series of myths based in story telling and explanations for things 4000 years ago. So when I talk about God I think why not make it all the way, and not some wishy washy demigod who is sort of something. To me if there is God then He (and I use that term loosely) would be infallible.
The bible is the word of God but it was definitely written by people. Even orthodox Jews in the Beit Midrash can tell you that there is a discrepancy between where it says the Lord and where it says God. The books of Moses were written by two different people and compiled by a third sometime later. And Luke wrote Luke and Habakkuk wrote Habakuk
So if something is wrong it is a human error. Or at least that is how religious people account for the inaccuracies.
If there is a God Xe would not be wrong. If there is not a God then people were wrong. No big deal either way. I can have my cake and eat it too. That is not empirical at all, I know! But it is really like an almost extended conditioning thing.
I just may be the worst Christian apologist ever.


So does that leave the bible, and teachings based on the bible, somewhat redundant to potentially being just human error?