russians are suspect

[xsecx]

they're trying to challenge the sovereignty of georgia. I have a strong feeling the cold war or a full on real war is about to start.

[straightXed]

they're trying to challenge the sovereignty of georgia. I have a strong feeling the cold war or a full on real war is about to start.

It certainly seems that way, i'm wondering how much of an effect americas support of georgia will have on russias actions.

[xsecx]

It certainly seems that way, i'm wondering how much of an effect americas support of georgia will have on russias actions.

it'll have some effect, I don't think the russians want full out war, but I do have to wonder if there is going to be another push for russian expansion in the region.

[mouseman004]

it'll have some effect, I don't think the russians want full out war, but I do have to wonder if there is going to be another push for russian expansion in the region.

I assumed something like this was on its way last year when Putin started building Russia's air force again and questioning the United States again.

[xWiglex]

I must disagree .

Georgia attacked Tshinvali ( in South Ossetia.. the third time in 100 years ) before Russian troops started DEFENDING Ossetia from Georgia . Georgia attacked on the same day the Olimpics started . You can find some footage of Georgian troops killing civlians ( who hid from the war in their houses ) that includes old people , women , kids . After what Russia went to protect their people ( over 50% of South Ossetians are russian civilians ( blame google thats the only definition i found for "гражданин" ) ) . So the defended Tshinvali and attacked Georgian war bases ( that where out to attack Ossetia ) .

Georgia also had a plan to invade "Abhazia" ( another respublic ) . As seen from georgian military maps ( found near the corpses of georgian troops ) .

Interesting facts :
* - American and Georgian troops held cooperative training 2 months before the invasion .
* - Some Georgian terrorists ( captured yesterday ) wanted to ( darn.. did i forget my english all of a sudden ? ) well , bomb stuff .
* - There are 120 American Military Advisers in Georgia .
* - Mihail Saakashvili - spoke to HIS OWN NATION IN ENGLISH.. Meaning , it wasn't meant for them . It was made to get the symphaty of the english press .
* - A couple of days ago Mihail Saakashvili - tried to make it seem he was tried to be assasined ( yet , he started running too fast.. so it just looked dorky ) .
* - Democracy.. Georgia ?? A few gay people tried to protect their rights ( as they were discriminated ) a few months ago.. So the georgian police ATACKED THEYR OWN CIVILIANS.. and that's true for every picket in georgia.. you will get attacked if it's not Pro-georgian ( i just know that , i have a relative there )


And yeah.. i saw some footage from CNN.. they claimed it to be "Russians shooting rockets into Georgia" . You Know the funny part ? Its the footage of GEORGIAN ARMY atacking Tshinvali 1 day ago ( 1 day before the airing that is ).




P.S. Sorry for my english , i never got into english war terms

[mouseman004]

I must disagree .

Georgia attacked Tshinvali ( in South Ossetia.. the third time in 100 years ) before Russian troops started DEFENDING Ossetia from Georgia . Georgia attacked on the same day the Olimpics started . You can find some footage of Georgian troops killing civlians ( who hid from the war in their houses ) that includes old people , women , kids . After what Russia went to protect their people ( over 50% of South Ossetians are russian civilians ( blame google thats the only definition i found for "гражданин" ) ) . So the defended Tshinvali and attacked Georgian war bases ( that where out to attack Ossetia ) .

Georgia also had a plan to invade "Abhazia" ( another respublic ) . As seen from georgian military maps ( found near the corpses of georgian troops ) .

Interesting facts :
* - American and Georgian troops held cooperative training 2 months before the invasion .
* - Some Georgian terrorists ( captured yesterday ) wanted to ( darn.. did i forget my english all of a sudden ? ) well , bomb stuff .
* - There are 120 American Military Advisers in Georgia .
* - Mihail Saakashvili - spoke to HIS OWN NATION IN ENGLISH.. Meaning , it wasn't meant for them . It was made to get the symphaty of the english press .
* - A couple of days ago Mihail Saakashvili - tried to make it seem he was tried to be assasined ( yet , he started running too fast.. so it just looked dorky ) .
* - Democracy.. Georgia ?? A few gay people tried to protect their rights ( as they were discriminated ) a few months ago.. So the georgian police ATACKED THEYR OWN CIVILIANS.. and that's true for every picket in georgia.. you will get attacked if it's not Pro-georgian ( i just know that , i have a relative there )


And yeah.. i saw some footage from CNN.. they claimed it to be "Russians shooting rockets into Georgia" . You Know the funny part ? Its the footage of GEORGIAN ARMY atacking Tshinvali 1 day ago ( 1 day before the airing that is ).




P.S. Sorry for my english , i never got into english war terms

I agree that it was wrong for Georgia to have made the first move and I think that Russia had a right to respond. However, invading their country, taking over half of Georgia and questioning the sovereignty of all of Georgia was an excessive response to what should have been seen as a minor military confrontation.

And Putin is a scary man.

[xWiglex]

I agree that it was wrong for Georgia to have made the first move and I think that Russia had a right to respond. However, invading their country, taking over half of Georgia and questioning the sovereignty of all of Georgia was an excessive response to what should have been seen as a minor military confrontation.

And Putin is a scary man.



They never entered georgia . They just moved torwards the border ( to attack the Georgian miltary if they plan to make another attack).

And not only Russians fought ! The South Ossetian army , also deffended themselves from georgians .

[xsecx]

They never entered georgia . They just moved torwards the border ( to attack the Georgian miltary if they plan to make another attack).

And not only Russians fought ! The South Ossetian army , also deffended themselves from georgians .

russian troops were/are in Gori. Whatever news source you're getting stuff from isn't telling you the truth, as I said before the russian government is suspect.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/14/georgia.russia4?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

[straightXed]

russian troops were/are in Gori. Whatever news source you're getting stuff from isn't telling you the truth, as I said before the russian government is suspect.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/14/georgia.russia4?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront


Did you see that video of the turkish journalists being shot at, that was pretty nuts.

[D1988]

My parents go to Turkey next week on holiday. I said they should take a day trip to either Georgia or Iraq. Good times!

[D1988]

Oh for fuck sake Russia -

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20080815/tpl-uk-georgia-ossetia-poland-43a8d4f.html

Yeah, just nuke the Polish, great idea guys.

[xWiglex]

russian troops were/are in Gori. Whatever news source you're getting stuff from isn't telling you the truth, as I said before the russian government is suspect.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/14/georgia.russia4?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront



Dusty.. do you know where Gori is ?
It's a city on the South Ossetian - Georgian border...
And , russians just were there to destroy Georgian weapons .
BTW : Russians started gathering evidence of Georgian genocide against
South Ossetia .


Oh for fuck sake Russia -

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200808...d-43a8d4f.html

Yeah, just nuke the Polish, great idea guys.

Russians offered their Anti-Missle systems for free . Yet , you need them in Eastern Europe.. Why ?
Already the 2 nd president of Russia tries to settle things down . And yeah.. These can't reach any terrorist nation . Yet , it's just good enough to attack Russia..

America is acting pretty wierd . I hope Obama will win the election , i think he's not interested in war as mutch as Bush & mccain is .

[xsecx]

Dusty.. do you know where Gori is ?
It's a city on the South Ossetian - Georgian border...
And , russians just were there to destroy Georgian weapons .
BTW : Russians started gathering evidence of Georgian genocide against
South Ossetia .


yeah, and it's also within non disputed Georgia. from the artcile
"Gori lies south of disputed South Ossetia and controls the main east-west road through Georgia. Yesterday, Russia denied it even had troops in the area despite witnesses saying they saw tanks on the streets."

How are you going ot believe anything from the Russians at this point when they straight up lie about where they have forces?




Russians offered their Anti-Missle systems for free . Yet , you need them in Eastern Europe.. Why ?
Already the 2 nd president of Russia tries to settle things down . And yeah.. These can't reach any terrorist nation . Yet , it's just good enough to attack Russia..

America is acting pretty wierd . I hope Obama will win the election , i think he's not interested in war as mutch as Bush & mccain is .

Being from latvia are you seriously going to tell me you actually trust the Russians? I understand that you were born after the fall of the USSR but would you really want things to go back to the way they were?

[xWiglex]

yeah, and it's also within non disputed Georgia. from the artcile
"Gori lies south of disputed South Ossetia and controls the main east-west road through Georgia. Yesterday, Russia denied it even had troops in the area despite witnesses saying they saw tanks on the streets."

How are you going ot believe anything from the Russians at this point when they straight up lie about where they have forces?




Being from latvia are you seriously going to tell me you actually trust the Russians? I understand that you were born after the fall of the USSR but would you really want things to go back to the way they were?

1. They really didnt have any military forces there , im not sure about South Ossetians..
Well , how mutch times did georgians lie ? From what i saw Saakashvili didn't say a damn phrase without lying .

2. I hate communists.. Yet , Putin made his point . Russia is not the USSR . And Stalin wasn't Russian ( quite a coincidence.. he was Georgian.... ) . And , there was no occupation.. he made a point "The Baltics joined USSR in 1939.. how could USSR occupy Latvia in 1941 ?? "


Still , im a pretty huge anti-russian in a way.. But , this time they are right..

[xsecx]

1. They really didnt have any military forces there , im not sure about South Ossetians..
Well , how mutch times did georgians lie ? From what i saw Saakashvili didn't say a damn phrase without lying .


the reports disagree with you. How can you really trust what the russians say at this point?



2. I hate communists.. Yet , Putin made his point . Russia is not the USSR . And Stalin wasn't Russian ( quite a coincidence.. he was Georgian.... ) . And , there was no occupation.. he made a point "The Baltics joined USSR in 1939.. how could USSR occupy Latvia in 1941 ?? "


Still , im a pretty huge anti-russian in a way.. But , this time they are right..

Given the fact that Putin refuses to leave power and is in the process of setting up a new dictatorship, all of the crackdowns media within the country, I really don't understand how you can trust anything that comes out of the russian government at this point.

[mouseman004]

Given the fact that Putin refuses to leave power and is in the process of setting up a new dictatorship, all of the crackdowns media within the country, I really don't understand how you can trust anything that comes out of the russian government at this point.

What?! I thought Medvedev was in power now!


(completely joking....)

[xWiglex]

the reports disagree with you. How can you really trust what the russians say at this point?



Given the fact that Putin refuses to leave power and is in the process of setting up a new dictatorship, all of the crackdowns media within the country, I really don't understand how you can trust anything that comes out of the russian government at this point.


Medvedev is the president , and he has more guts then Putin .

[mouseman004]

Medvedev is the president , and he has more guts then Putin .

Medvedev was hand picked by Putin to be President. Medvedev is nothing more than Putin's puppet. Putin still holds the majority of power in Russia.

[xWiglex]

Medvedev was hand picked by Putin to be President. Medvedev is nothing more than Putin's puppet. Putin still holds the majority of power in Russia.


Not true , and he wasnt picked . Medvedev was the leader of the "Edinaja Rossia" party , witch Putin later joined .

[xsecx]

Medvedev was hand picked by Putin to be President. Medvedev is nothing more than Putin's puppet. Putin still holds the majority of power in Russia.


Not true , and he wasnt picked . Medvedev was the leader of the "Edinaja Rossia" party , witch Putin later joined .


uh. it was widely reported that Medvedev was picked to be the successor of Putin, by Putin. There were/are a bunch of reports about issues with the election. I wouldn't be surprised at all if after the terms is over that Putin "runs" again for president. The general consensus in the west is that he is nothing more than a puppet put in place because Putin couldn't continue to be president.

[xWiglex]

[QUOTE=xsecx;90177]uh. it was widely reported that Medvedev was picked to be the successor of Putin, by Putin. There were/are a bunch of reports about issues with the election. I wouldn't be surprised at all if after the terms is over that Putin "runs" again for president. The general consensus in the west is that he is nothing more than a puppet put in place because Putin couldn't continue to be president.[/QUOTE

Well , Russian people did want him to change the constitution , so he can rule the ountry even more.. That just shows , he's a great president and people love em !

[xsecx]

Well , Russian people did want him to change the constitution , so he can rule the ountry even more.. That just shows , he's a great president and people love em !

uh huh. Do you seriously believe that? Especially in light of the crackdown on the media, the jailing of critics and the voting violations?

now back to the original point, doesn't the fact that the russians aren't withdrawing troops like they said they would seem slightly suspicious?

[holdXtrue]

Guys, actually Russia did not attack Georgia. This conflict is obviously provoked by the Georgian management for strain of relations in region and as I consider on NATO's guidance. War is not necessary to us. Russia protected people of South Ossetia and no more that. It's not expansion. I saw that that showed on the western telechannels such as BBC it is not the truth, is information war, I was in a shock from that that there spoke it so the bald lie. I do not support Putin and other politics, i have some anarchysts views but in the given situation I consider the truth on our side.

p.s Fuck politics, Georgians and Russians are frends. It's fuckin information war begun by the governments of the western countries led by the Bush, I hope the new president of the USA will put to it the end. ((((

p.p.s
peace =)

[xsecx]

Guys, actually Russia did not attack Georgia. This conflict is obviously provoked by the Georgian management for strain of relations in region and as I consider on NATO's guidance. War is not necessary to us. Russia protected people of South Ossetia and no more that. It's not expansion. I saw that that showed on the western telechannels such as BBC it is not the truth, is information war, I was in a shock from that that there spoke it so the bald lie. I do not support Putin and other politics, i have some anarchysts views but in the given situation I consider the truth on our side.

p.s Fuck politics, Georgians and Russians are frends. It's fuckin information war begun by the governments of the western countries led by the Bush, I hope the new president of the USA will put to it the end. ((((

p.p.s
peace =)
what was a lie and why would the western news organzations lie?

[holdXtrue]

what was a lie and why would the western news organzations lie?
They showed the Georgian tanks, and commentator spoke about that as the Russian tanks fire Georgia and Southern Ossetic villages.
I do not know why Western telechannels told lies, probably by someone it is favourable that people were are adjusted against Russia (for the majority it is a unique source of the information) probably someone would like again to kindle cold war. Maybe Russian TV don't tell whole truth, maybe. Not You not i can't know whole truth. But I call you to listen for that that I speak, there is no reason for me to say lies.
The Russian armies were in this territory as peacemakers, these are the Georgian armies despite of all arrangements have opened fire on peacemakers and their Russian occupy have then started to blow in all that. People of Obhasia and South Ossetia has the right of to self-determination, why Georgian dictatorship Saakashvili does not give them such right? Why the Western Media likes to recollect independence of Tibet why the NATO has the right to separate Kosovo from Serbia and to bomb Yugoslavia? Why when Russia has started to carry out the peace-making function ordered to it agreements that all have started talking about expansion???? Double standards and unequality=(
Saakashvili try to arrange a genocide of Southern ossetic people wishing to gain independence, when it have tried to stop all have started to blow about an attack of Russia. = (

[xsecx]

They showed the Georgian tanks, and commentator spoke about that as the Russian tanks fire Georgia and Southern Ossetic villages.
I do not know why Western telechannels told lies, probably by someone it is favourable that people were are adjusted against Russia (for the majority it is a unique source of the information) probably someone would like again to kindle cold war. Maybe Russian TV don't tell whole truth, maybe. Not You not i can't know whole truth. But I call you to listen for that that I speak, there is no reason for me to say lies.
The Russian armies were in this territory as peacemakers, these are the Georgian armies despite of all arrangements have opened fire on peacemakers and their Russian occupy have then started to blow in all that. People of Obhasia and South Ossetia has the right of to self-determination, why Georgian dictatorship Saakashvili does not give them such right? Why the Western Media likes to recollect independence of Tibet why the NATO has the right to separate Kosovo from Serbia and to bomb Yugoslavia? Why when Russia has started to carry out the peace-making function ordered to it agreements that all have started talking about expansion???? Double standards and unequality=(
Saakashvili try to arrange a genocide of Southern ossetic people wishing to gain independence, when it have tried to stop all have started to blow about an attack of Russia. = (

all I know is that as far as I'm aware there's no global conspiracy against russia and the Russian government has had an awful lot of history especially recently of repressing the news and jailing reporters.

http://gizmodo.com/5012666/russian-state-tv-digitally-and-messily-erases-government-critics-from-the-airwaves

[holdXtrue]

During attempts of the newspaper the SIGHT to pay attention of the western mass-media to a roller where the Georgian soldiers with joyful shouts shoot inhabited quarters Tshinvaly, was found out, what the western telechannels consider? Nonprofessional? To use on air rollers with YouTube. However, apparently, it concerns only cases when the maintenance of a roller mismatches representations of a telechannel about the validity. If it is possible to show this roller with? Correct? Treatment, about? Professionalism? Forget. For example, one of leading Spanish telechannels has declared, that it is the Russian armies fire ÆåØÝÒÐÛ. Owing to the letter of one of our readers in Spain it became known, that the sensational videoclip on which the Georgian armies fire at residential areas Tskhinvala, has been shown on air of the news program of one of the most popular Spanish telechannels RTVE. However, during display of this roller ×ÐÚÐÔàÞÒëÙ the voice of the announcer has informed, that on video are represented firing Tshivaly the Russian armies.? The American vice-president Dik Chejni now is in Georgia where it has met the president of the country Michael Saakashvili and has confirmed continuation of cooperation of the United States with Georgia. All this occurs in day when one of the Russian telechannels broadcasts this staff?, - the leader then on the screen there is staff with joyfully whooping soldiers scorching in all of the party from machine guns speaks. VIDEO? On them that moment when the Russian armies enter in Tshinval, capital of South Ossetia is shown, - the voice of the leader of news RTVE. is distributed for the staff - the Soldier removes this staff on the chamber of the mobile phone while the tank fires at city, - it explains, and passes to a theme of number of victims of war. - now it is precisely not known, how many the person was lost in this war. The international independent organizations inform on several hundreds victims...? As correspondents of the newspaper have found out the SIGHT in conversation with representatives of the western broadcasting companies, the first With YouTube on air they name a condition of display of a roller check of its reliability. And, how it is represented to us, during such check it is quite good to analyse retorts, at least? Heroes? A roller. We, naturally, have made it. Also we do not result these retorts as, basically, the obscene abuse in the Georgian language there contains. Hardly at Russian the soldier there would be a necessity to pass from the native language on Georgian - as is known, opportunities of Russian in this sense are much wider. Thus, it is possible to ascertain, one of two: or nonprofessional journalists who do not check the information even at the most superficial level are engaged in news RTVE. Or the Spanish telechannel within the limits of information war against Russia has gone on direct lies. To suspect of nonprofessionalism of workers of news service of one of leading European telechannels difficultly. Meanwhile, the newspaper the SIGHT continues to acquaint representatives of leading western telechannels with a videoclip from ÆåØÝÒÐÛÐ. Answers different. So, in edition USA Today to us have informed, what resource YouTube on which for the first time there was video? Does not cause in them trust?.? USA Today the chance possesses access to various information resources worldwide, therefore, that we shall ever address to resources YouTube, is insignificant is small. At least, it is nonprofessional?, - the representative of edition ºÕÒØÝ in conversation with the correspondent of the SIGHT has noted. We shall notice in brackets, what any? Nonprofessionalism? Never earlier prevented to show the American and European telechannels on air the staff from amateur video. For example, broadcasting company CNN in the ethers so actively uses amateur video, what even has opened special project-satellite Ireport on which suggests to spread the interesting staff who has been removed by nonprofessionals. As the newspaper already wrote the SIGHT, video from ÆåØÝÒÐÛÐ already for a long time hangs on this site. However the request of the newspaper the SIGHT to explain the further destiny of a roller on a telechannel, apparently, has put Workers CNN in deadlock.? It is such complicated question. At all I do not know, what department can help you. We can write down only your phone number and call back, if your inquiry will receive any answer?. We have dictated our number, now we look forward to hearing. On American telechannel ABC too work? Nonprofessionals? (if to start with the estimation of our interlocutor with? USA Today?): Video with YouTube there frequently appear. But as to video from ÆåØÝÒÐÛÐ? This roller at us was not. Most likely, because we could not check up its reliability. So we did not place it and, probably, it we shall not do?, - have declared in ABC. There was a textbook on a survival in army Baturin has answered ÀãÔÚÞÒáÚÞÙ, ±ØÛÐÝã and ¿ÛîéÕÝÚÞ Representative CBS news has declared (video), that in its broadcasting company simply did not see this video. On the offer of the correspondent of the SIGHT to send it the reference to a roller, the American journalist has declared, what it? Escapes on an emergency meeting and anything to speak and write down? Any more will not be. The meeting was obviously tightened? It any more does not approach to phone. We shall remind, several days earlier the SIGHT has directed detailed letters with a statement of a situation both to all the set forth above mass-media, and in many other things, including, Fox news, Sky news, BBC and ARD. The answer while to receive it was not possible. But we have received already more than 100 letters from our readers from abroad. Today we publish some responses, and also we assure, that the newspaper the SIGHT continues attempts to reach up to the western mass-media. We are still grateful for any information on destiny of video from ÆåØÝÒÐÛÐ and other examples of information aggression against Russia. Our electronic address: info@vz.ru. And if on your computer it is established a web-chamber, you can send us letters in a video-format.

p.s
I used computer translation, but I think serious mistakes should not be


http://vz.ru/politics/2008/9/8/205443.html - source and here you can watch video

Some sources to translating, you can use some computer translator from Russsian to English :
http://vz.ru/politics/2008/8/8/194748.html
http://www.vz.ru/politics/2008/8/25/200201.html



http://vz.ru/society/2008/8/17/197237.html - source and video
briefly:
Top of shamelessness has named the Kremlin an ether of telechannel Fox News in which statements South Osetian refuge have interrupted with advertising. It not only has thanked the Russian army for protection, but also has accused Michael Saakashvili of military aggression. The president of Russia Dmitry Medvedev calls mass-media to understand, who is guilty in beginning violence over a zone of the georgian-ossetic conflict. In the meantime of a management of the USA are assured, that know the answer, and prepare for Russia unpleasant surprises.