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Meteor
01-04-2008, 01:31 PM
Hey buddys, please be a bit more tolerant!
I often saw people asking questions here, about what is sxe and what's not, and if you are sxe if you do... whatever.
And every time that's questioned, it happens that people react, er, well, let's say <unfriendly>.
I think it's a problem that we have to talk about (no, don't wanna play the forums psychologist, I just think it's important for the forum's ambience).
The main problem is, well I don't know if that's with intent, but it seems like you want to persuade the other users of your opinion. And that's well-worded.
It dwindles into that, that users may feel outcasted, if they don't do what you do or forgo what you forgo. I think the best word for it is >peer pressure<.
Of course, everyone somehow wants to make people do what (he/she thinks) is right. But you put pressure on people if you tell them they aren't sxe if they don't do that or leave that, and they may stop something without really knowing why and without it's really their own will, just to stay in the "clique".
When people ask questions like that, tell them "no that's okay" or "if you do that, you aren't sxe".
But don't say it like you want say they >mustn't< do that. It's a small difference which words you take, but makes a big difference in how it comes over.
Please, just try to be fair, and try to be kind to people who have another opinion.
Maybe you didn't want to tell people what to do, but like I said, it happens that it comes over like you want to kick people out who don't follow (what you think are) the rules of sxe.

Your's,
Meteor

xCrucialDudex
01-07-2008, 09:02 AM
The main problem is, well I don't know if that's with intent, but it seems like you want to persuade the other users of your opinion. And that's well-worded.
It dwindles into that, that users may feel outcasted, if they don't do what you do or forgo what you forgo. I think the best word for it is >peer pressure<.

........

But you put pressure on people if you tell them they aren't sxe if they don't do that or leave that, and they may stop something without really knowing why and without it's really their own will, just to stay in the "clique".

...........

Maybe you didn't want to tell people what to do, but like I said, it happens that it comes over like you want to kick people out who don't follow (what you think are) the rules of sxe.


It's only your perception (many may share it, though). Point is that someone raises a question and a discussion begins. A sound and serious discussion is full of arguments and valid information. A few core forum members can and often lead such a discussion. Many though fail to support such a discussion and respond with good arguments and valid information due to various reasons. For instance, you often here forum members telling everyone that sex doesn't have to do anything with the definition of straight edge. Someone may argue that but most people fail to argument well their point of view or what they belief. Furthermore, many also fail to realise the others' arguments even though they've usually been carefully detailed and explained. This is not a peer pressure to tell someone either explicitly or implicitly that they've failed to realize an argument. This is just a call to reconsider what has been discussed.

That how people react to the call and what that reaction consequently leads to (feeling outcasted etc.) is not a peer pressure. This is a completely different issue.

stepinsideissue
01-07-2008, 01:02 PM
Hey buddys, please be a bit more tolerant!
I often saw people asking questions here, about what is sxe and what's not, and if you are sxe if you do... whatever.
And every time that's questioned, it happens that people react, er, well, let's say <unfriendly>.

I think this is a grave misconception. If people have honest questions for the most part most of the people here share the same views and are inclined to anwser them " friendly " There are however people that troll here or come here to just criticize and I believe it's those people that get the blunt of the intolerence that you speak of. Then there are people that when you tell them things as a suggestion or any other thought they simply wish to argue and annoy just to argue and annoy. You cant blame some one for getting irritated and defending thier stance in a discussion. Then there are those who simply are not that bright and come on strong with false statements and no back up with them. If you're gonna be lazy and not do the research and have no profound back up to your bs and nothing valuable to add to a discussion then yeah sometimes you deserve some of the reactions you get.



I think it's a problem that we have to talk about (no, don't wanna play the forums psychologist, I just think it's important for the forum's ambience).

What is the problem. What is there to talk about and why? What exactly is the forums ambience? Isn't that for the sites moderator to decied really?


The main problem is, well I don't know if that's with intent, but it seems like you want to persuade the other users of your opinion. And that's well-worded.
It dwindles into that, that users may feel outcasted, if they don't do what you do or forgo what you forgo. I think the best word for it is >peer pressure<.


I don't feel that any one here tries to force thier opinions on any one else. It's just a matter of education. Sxe is what it is. Nothing more nothing less. If people tell you this is or isn't part of it thats because a majority of the people here have been for years upon years and have been there for the majority of the history. If anything we are doing the exact opposite of forcing our opinions on people by showing them the history and what sXe really is and asking them why they must try so hard to make thier lives fit a lable that really doesn't fit thier life style. To some it's exactly that. It's a label a trend a fashion statement. And I cant speak for any one else but to me that is a HUGH insult to me and the way I have lived my life and I won't stand by and let this cheapen my values and everything I believe in and have fought and watched others fight for for years.


Of course, everyone somehow wants to make people do what (he/she thinks) is right. But you put pressure on people if you tell them they aren't sxe if they don't do that or leave that, and they may stop something without really knowing why and without it's really their own will, just to stay in the "clique".

How is showing people that the lable they use to describe them selves putting pressure on them. No one says hey you live like we live be straight edge. Do they? If so who? And where? All I ever see that is said is hey try to find a diffrent term to describe your self because the lable you have choosen doesn't fit you. No one that I recall at this moment has ever said there is anything wrong with being just drug free or being just anything. I doubt anyone here cares how any one else lives their life. It's just self perservation! Why cheapen what we have as a whole by letting whom ever distort what sXe truely is so it fits thier mold?

What "clique" are you talking about?



When people ask questions like that, tell them "no that's okay" or "if you do that, you aren't sxe".
But don't say it like you want say they >mustn't< do that. It's a small difference which words you take, but makes a big difference in how it comes over.
Please, just try to be fair, and try to be kind to people who have another opinion.
Maybe you didn't want to tell people what to do, but like I said, it happens that it comes over like you want to kick people out who don't follow (what you think are) the rules of sxe.


Considering that Dusty is the only one who can really "kick people out" does it really matter what others think there too. Don't talk to that person or resond to them. If it's that big of a deal don't give them that satisfaction of letting them know they got to you.

And I'm pretty sure I and many others know ( or as you put it think we know ) the "rules" of sxe. Do you?

xsecx
01-07-2008, 02:59 PM
I'd really like to see specific examples where someone has asked a legitimate question about straight edge and got an unfriendly response.

Meteor
01-08-2008, 02:32 PM
I think this is a grave misconception. If people have honest questions for the most part most of the people here share the same views and are inclined to anwser them " friendly " There are however people that troll here or come here to just criticize and I believe it's those people that get the blunt of the intolerence that you speak of. Then there are people that when you tell them things as a suggestion or any other thought they simply wish to argue and annoy just to argue and annoy. You cant blame some one for getting irritated and defending thier stance in a discussion. Then there are those who simply are not that bright and come on strong with false statements and no back up with them. If you're gonna be lazy and not do the research and have no profound back up to your bs and nothing valuable to add to a discussion then yeah sometimes you deserve some of the reactions you get.

You're downplaying it.




What is the problem. What is there to talk about and why? What exactly is the forums ambience? Isn't that for the sites moderator to decied really?
It's down to every user I think.




And I cant speak for any one else but to me that is a HUGH insult to me and the way I have lived my life and I won't stand by and let this cheapen my values and everything I believe in and have fought and watched others fight for for years.
No one wants to cheapen your values. You don't have to be annoyed of people who do ("fight") less than you for gaining the same. There's nothing you can do about it, but the others aren't to blame for what they don't know.



What "clique" are you talking about?


Considering that Dusty is the only one who can really "kick people out"(...)

That's meant figuratively. That's why it is in apostrophes.




And I'm pretty sure I and many others know ( or as you put it think we know ) the "rules" of sxe. Do you?

That's not what I want to discuss about.
But would it be so hard to show more tolerance to people who don't know them?
I just want to say you could only tell them what >you< think and leave it at that?




@xsecx: Didn't I say it's especially about the atmosphere and not individual incidents?
It happens often here, I think that's for everyone to see. Please make sure how people apprehend what you say! Before you send a message, think of how it and how people understand it, and if they maybe feel attacked.

xsecx
01-08-2008, 02:33 PM
@xsecx: Didn't I say it's especially about the atmosphere and not individual incidents?
It happens often here, I think that's for everyone to see. Please make sure how people apprehend what you say! Before you send a message, think of how it and how people understand it, and if they maybe feel attacked.

if it happens here often, then I'd like to see examples of what you're talking about.

Meteor
01-08-2008, 02:49 PM
Hm I just hinted it in another traid, I'll continue in others, that's better than make a list here, ok?

xsecx
01-08-2008, 02:51 PM
Hm I just hinted it in another traid, I'll continue in others, that's better than make a list here, ok?

yeah, but if you think that response that you hinted at was in any way unfriendly or at all related to straight edge, I think you may have a different perception of what makes something unfriendly than everyone else.

stepinsideissue
01-09-2008, 08:15 PM
if it happens here often, then I'd like to see examples of what you're talking about.


I'd like to see specific examples of this too.

Meteor
01-12-2008, 06:19 AM
I'd like to see specific examples of this too.

ok some will follow
but I've not much time to come here so you've to wait

Meteor
02-02-2008, 10:09 AM
"There's a younger kid, and he's just like me. And for him, I'm gonna fight it. I'll give him every chance that was given to me. And make sure that he's never silenced."

It's all a lie.


Have you ever thought about what this sentence means (to you)?

xsecx
02-02-2008, 10:22 AM
It's all a lie.


Have you ever thought about what this sentence means (to you)?

I'm glad that for some reason you've developed a chip on your shoulder.

and yes, I have. Have you even heard that song or understand the context?

Meteor
02-02-2008, 10:35 AM
I'm glad that for some reason you've developed a chip on your shoulder.
Wtf? Do you really except me to understand that? Is that an idiom?


and yes, I have. Have you even heard that song or understand the context?
Yeah, but it doesn't involve the context, 'cause you've only that small part of the text in the page. And that sentence being written on top of the cover page, I assume that you refer it to youself, or sxe, or whatever (if not, I think you should delete it from that page).
If you do, that text is a big lie.

xsecx
02-02-2008, 10:38 AM
Wtf? Do you really except me to understand that? Is that an idiom?

it's a widely used idiom, and you'd think that if you came across something you didn't understand you'd look it up, so that way you'd learn.



Yeah, but it doesn't involve the context, 'cause you've only that small part of the text in the page. And that sentence being written on top of the cover page, I assume that you refer it to youself, or sxe, or whatever (if not, I think you should delete it from that page).
If you do, that text is a big lie.

it completely involves the context. How is it a big lie? Do you understand that there is a difference between helping to give people a voice isn't the same as being forced to agree with them and not debate or argue?

Meteor
02-02-2008, 11:24 AM
if you came across something you didn't understand you'd look it up

Where??




it completely involves the context. How is it a big lie? Do you understand that there is a difference between helping to give people a voice isn't the same as being forced to agree with them and not debate or argue?
Do you claim you ever gave anyone a voice?
No.
If at all, you took voices away.

xsecx
02-02-2008, 11:33 AM
Where??
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Chip+on+your+shoulder&btnG=Google+Search

or even more to the point
http://m-w.com/dictionary/chip%20on%20one's%20shoulder



Do you claim you ever gave anyone a voice?
No.
If at all, you took voices away.

um. ok. how exactly? seriously, what are you even talking about? How is this exchange happening? How have I taken voices away? have you noticed that anyone is free to sign up to this site and post? That people join all the time that don't agree with me or other people on this site?

stepinsideissue
02-02-2008, 05:53 PM
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Chip+on+your+shoulder&btnG=Google+Search

or even more to the point
http://m-w.com/dictionary/chip%20on%20one's%20shoulder



um. ok. how exactly? seriously, what are you even talking about? How is this exchange happening? How have I taken voices away? have you noticed that anyone is free to sign up to this site and post? That people join all the time that don't agree with me or other people on this site?



I'd like to add to this Meteor that a great deal of us here that do talk to each other on a regular basis and get along for the most part don't always agree with each other on everything but we take each others words in stride and to heart and learn from it and accept the others opinion and continue to talk to each other as friends on a regualr basis and don't simply stop because of a simple disagreement on one issue or the next. Heated or hatefull words may or may not have been said from time to time or people make jokes at others expense but no one seems to get so up tight with it like you do. Thats what these forums are for. Thats what friends with a common ground do. Why do you take so much of it to heart and let it get to you?