Coffee, Caffine, Sex?

[xstefahnx]

What are your guys' beliefs on drinking coffee and things like soda?
Can i also get some opinions on sex and different stances.

[xsecx]

What are your guys' beliefs on drinking coffee and things like soda?
Can i also get some opinions on sex and different stances.

caffeine's a drug, so I avoid it in amounts that can effect me like any other drug.


I don't think sex really matters in terms of straight edge.

[Sand Stealer]

I don't drink caffeine because, like Dusty, I believe it's a drug, like alochol and nicotine, so should be avoided.

As for sex, I'm not the type of person to sleep around anyway, but I don't necessarily believe it's part of straight edge.

[Pilaf]

I'm not anal about caffeine. I drink tea, because it's a healthy beverage. I get decaffeinated when I can, but I don't obsess if I drink small amounts of caffeine now and then.

Also, the hardcore kids of the eighties chugged coca cola like a mofo.

As for the sex thing, I think a person with the mindset to want to embrace Straight Edge has to make up his or her own mind. I personally wanna be friends with someone at least before sleeping with them.

[xsecx]

I'm not anal about caffeine. I drink tea, because it's a healthy beverage. I get decaffeinated when I can, but I don't obsess if I drink small amounts of caffeine now and then.


why is caffeine different from other drugs? decaffeniated tea would be a small amount, caffeinated would not.




As for the sex thing, I think a person with the mindset to want to embrace Straight Edge has to make up his or her own mind. I personally wanna be friends with someone at least before sleeping with them.

so how does sex relate to straight edge?

[Pilaf]

There seem to be a lot of kids who take the lyrics from "Out of Step" to be some sort of all encompassing doctrine, and think that "Don't Fuck" means no sex, period. Which is silly, really, since even in the really early days of Straight Edge, it was understood that not only is that not what it meant, but that there was an implied "I" at the start of every verse of that song.

In my mind, there's no direct correlation between straight edge and sex. There's, yet again, that "logical lifestyle extension" thing that goes on, like the whole vegetarianism thing. You notice a lot of vegetarian edge people, but that's not part of it, just a decision they made as an extension of core values. I think the attitudes about sex are the same.

[xsecx]

There seem to be a lot of kids who take the lyrics from "Out of Step" to be some sort of all encompassing doctrine, and think that "Don't Fuck" means no sex, period. Which is silly, really, since even in the really early days of Straight Edge, it was understood that not only is that not what it meant, but that there was an implied "I" at the start of every verse of that song.


It was not understood at all, which is why there were so many articles about it and why the song was re-recorded.



In my mind, there's no direct correlation between straight edge and sex. There's, yet again, that "logical lifestyle extension" thing that goes on, like the whole vegetarianism thing. You notice a lot of vegetarian edge people, but that's not part of it, just a decision they made as an extension of core values. I think the attitudes about sex are the same.

How is it an extension of the core values? This statement is a massive stretch. The attitudes about sex tend to be kids who took 1 song that a lot of them have never heard literally and who are for the most part virgins and usually have weird sexual hangups and unhealthy views of sex and uses straight edge as an excuse.

and what about the caffeine part?

[D1988]

I believe caffeine is a drug and I avoid consuming ammounts of caffeine that are going to effect me. It's no big deal, there is tonnes of stuff out there that has no caffeine yet alot of people think avoiding caffeine would be realy difficult.

As for sex, I don't agree with sleeping with strangers or having like one night stands. I don't feel this is part of straight edge but I see it as a matter fo self respect. Nobody should be going around sleeping with random people, atleast get to know them a bit before getting involved with things like that.

[xstefahnx]

thank you for everyones opinions on here. i appreciate the help..

[XxXOMENXxX]

i dont know about caffeen but i beleive that the sex thing applies only in terms of one night stands
if you know the person and you are in a deep relationship then i dont think it matters

[xvunderx]

Caffeines a drug so i avoid it, and I'm an avid tea drinker! I drink decaf or herbal teas.

Sex I've never been one to sleep around, but don't see it as an issue associated with edge.

[xANTI-HUMANx]

I think no promiscuous sex is a core part of edge. I think promiscuous sex can become like drugs, in that it takes over the lives of weak-minded individuals and blinds the person to how what they're doing is harming people. It can be destructive to oneself, not to mention the emotional damage it does to others.
The way I see it, when punk rock first started they were still in the whole "sex, drugs, and rock & roll" mindset, and straight-edge dropped that attitude- the edgers didn't do drugs, they played hardcore punk, losing the rock designation (and eventually even the punk), and they didn't obsess over having as much mindless sex as they possibly could.
Caffiene, not so much, for a few reasons. Caffiene, while you can get addicted to it, isn't as mentally addictive as drugs, alcohol, and sex. People don't base their lives around the consumption of caffiene. Sure, it's a drug, sure it's addictive, and sure it's harmful in large amounts, but it's not going to destroy your life other people's lives.

[D1988]

Caffiene, not so much, for a few reasons. Caffiene, while you can get addicted to it, isn't as mentally addictive as drugs, alcohol, and sex. People don't base their lives around the consumption of caffiene. Sure, it's a drug, sure it's addictive, and sure it's harmful in large amounts, but it's not going to destroy your life other people's lives.

But some people only drink alcohol in very small ammounts and it is pretty harmless. Some people smoke some weed maybe every now and again, that isn't so extreme and isn't life ruining. So why is it OK to consume a little caffiene but absolutely no alcohol or drugs at all? Caffeine is a drug aswell remember.

Like 98% of people I know drink things with caffeine in it every single day, its just an everyday thing to them, so because the effects aren't as obvious as someone drinking alcohol everyday what your saying is that people dont base their lives around the consumption of caffeine but if they were drinking alcohol everyday they would be basing their life around alcohol.

You don't seem to realise that caffeine is not recognised for it infact being a very addictive drug, but because anyone and everyone can buy and consume as much as they want day to day it isn't noticed at all. There was a site posted up by Dusty that told you some interesting facts, I will see if I can find the link.

[truetilldeath_xxx]

caffeine's a drug, so I avoid it in amounts that can effect me like any other drug.


I don't think sex really matters in terms of straight edge.

ok so no alcohol but some caffeine?

and ya read the lyrics of minor threat's straight edge again...
sex is a part of straight edge. the ORIGINAL thing was no alcohol, drugs, smoking, and promiscuous sex.

[straightXed]

ok so no alcohol but some caffeine?

and ya read the lyrics of minor threat's straight edge again...
sex is a part of straight edge. the ORIGINAL thing was no alcohol, drugs, smoking, and promiscuous sex.

The song straight edge by minor threat makes no mention of sex at all, perhaps you should be the one to read the lyrics again. And for the record minor threat also never mentioned the word promiscuous, you aren't really coming across as very smart here i suggest you educate yourself before you try to educate others.

Oh and the amount of caffeine we are talking about is so minimal it would be comparable to the alcohol found in soy sauce or the effect mouthwash has on a person. And straightedge people with any sense wouldn't avoid soy sauce or mouthwash, so its not a case of saying no alcohol and some caffeine its a case of looking at it with a clear logical state of mind. If someone wants to avoid soy sauce then fine but there reasons to do so shouldn't be based on the minute levels of alcohol in it, caffeine in the doses found in coffee, tea and soda are enough to effect the body, the minimal amount of caffeine in chocolate really isn't, to consume enough to get an effect you would have to eat more than enough to make you sick, the same goes with soy sauce. You should try and look at things realistically.

[D1988]

ok so no alcohol but some caffeine?

and ya read the lyrics of minor threat's straight edge again...
sex is a part of straight edge. the ORIGINAL thing was no alcohol, drugs, smoking, and promiscuous sex.

To avoid alcohol and caffeine completely and 100% is impossible, there is trace ammounts of each in things you would not expect.

Some people say sex is a part of straight edge, some say it isn't, just like some say avoiding caffeine is part of straight edge and some don't. For me having one night stands every weekend and having sex with people you don't know or want to know is stupid and its a matter of respecting yourself and not doing that, it isn't a matter of whether it is straight edge or not for me. If people want to have sex with tonnes of random people let them, but to me they are stupid and need to learn to respect themselves and their body alot more than they are.

[D1988]

The song straight edge by minor threat makes no mention of sex at all

This is true.

The lyrics you are probably thinking about say "don't fuck", which basically says don't have sex, so this promiscious thing that people have incorporated is pretty bogus.

[straightXed]

This is true.

The lyrics you are probably thinking about say "don't fuck", which basically says don't have sex, so this promiscious thing that people have incorporated is pretty bogus.

And i'd like to add those are the lyrics to out of step, not to straight edge. And minor threat are by no means an authority on what straight edge is, they don't support the movement and aside from coining the term with that one song have not been active in creating this straightedge community. There are a lot of confused people and they often look to minor threat as an authority, we have a rich history for a young sub culture one that people really need to draw upon when looking at what this movement really is.

[xsecx]

ok so no alcohol but some caffeine?

and ya read the lyrics of minor threat's straight edge again...
sex is a part of straight edge. the ORIGINAL thing was no alcohol, drugs, smoking, and promiscuous sex.

the ORIGINAL thing was not having those things control your life, but still doing them. Straight edge ORIGINALLY and what it is now are totally different things. And ya, you might want to read the lyrics again, since like the bible you apparently read what you wanted there and not what was actually there.

[hxcsxe]

caffeine's a drug, so I avoid it in amounts that can effect me like any other drug.


I don't think sex really matters in terms of straight edge.

u avoid caffen in amouts it effects ,
what about drink in amounts that it wont effect coz sum poeple drink 2 and are fine, i truly dont believe this because i dont drink eaither

[hxcsxe]

in hardcore we all have respect for eachova but havin sex ect i dont think most do have respect for womam which is why there are so many abused ladys in this fucked up world, so i dont abuse ladys form there body or for the sake of a cheap shag,

[xsecx]

u avoid caffen in amouts it effects ,
what about drink in amounts that it wont effect coz sum poeple drink 2 and are fine, i truly dont believe this because i dont drink eaither

if you drink 2 cokes it effects you. it's the same with alcohol. you drink a single beer and it will have an effect, it will just have a greater effect on different people.

[xsecx]

in hardcore we all have respect for eachova but havin sex ect i dont think most do have respect for womam which is why there are so many abused ladys in this fucked up world, so i dont abuse ladys form there body or for the sake of a cheap shag,

this is completely discounting women as anything other than weak creatures.

[straightXed]

in hardcore we all have respect for eachova but havin sex ect i dont think most do have respect for womam which is why there are so many abused ladys in this fucked up world, so i dont abuse ladys form there body or for the sake of a cheap shag,


i was wondering if you could clarify this post, i'm not sure what you are saying exactly. Right now it seems to say people in hardcore all respect each other (not necesarily true) but that these people don't respect women (not sure if you meant women are disrespected in hardcore or in general). I'm not sure if you are attributing the reason for there being abused woman to people having sex? Abuse is a rather different thing from sex. Your language, albeit hard to decipher, does seem to have you denoting women as people that you get to decide how you treat whilst ignoring a womans choice of treatment of herself and others. Woman can decide to initiate one night stands and have sexual relationships on their own terms, you don't seem to be relating this to multitudes of weak and abused men. Abuse is a serious issue and i'm not sure you are making a relevent commentry on it, you seem to take a leap from consensual sex to sexual abuse without any explanation.

[Lifestyle_X]

so did some of you guys drunk coffee after you decided to be edge ?

[straightXed]

so did some of you guys drunk coffee after you decided to be edge ?

i never drank coffee much but i still drank tea for a while. I stopped all caffiene inadvertantly and then a while later i had a cup of green tea and i felt it effect me quite strongly. Nowadays i have an occasional decaf green tea.

[WorkingClassSkin]

I don't avoid it on purpose (caffeine). I can't remember which one of you said it, but I agree. It's about not letting these things control your life. I'm not gonna stop drinking Coke because it has a bit of caffeine in it because I don't drink it to get a buzz.

Coke tastes good and I'm not addicted to it. I don't see that as an issue.

And I think y'all have the sex thing pretty well covered. I'll leave that one alone.

[xsecx]

I don't avoid it on purpose (caffeine). I can't remember which one of you said it, but I agree. It's about not letting these things control your life. I'm not gonna stop drinking Coke because it has a bit of caffeine in it because I don't drink it to get a buzz.

Coke tastes good and I'm not addicted to it. I don't see that as an issue.

And I think y'all have the sex thing pretty well covered. I'll leave that one alone.

why is caffeine different than any other drug? Do you think you could drink 1 beer a night and still be straight edge?

[WorkingClassSkin]

I see your point, but I think the seriousness (for lack of a better term) of caffeine is far less than that of alcohol. I guess I don't worry too much about the level of caffeine in a Coke as much as I might the level of alcohol in a bottle of beer.

You're right, though. It's a drug nonetheless. Hmmm.

[xsecx]

I see your point, but I think the seriousness (for lack of a better term) of caffeine is far less than that of alcohol. I guess I don't worry too much about the level of caffeine in a Coke as much as I might the level of alcohol in a bottle of beer.

You're right, though. It's a drug nonetheless. Hmmm.

the level of caffeine in a coke is enough to effect you, just like the amount of alcohol is. The only reason people treat caffeine differently is because of societal conditioning, when the reality is they're both drugs. they're both addictive and they're both used recreationally.

[WorkingClassSkin]

Yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at. Good point.
But where does one draw the line? Acetominophen and aspirin are drugs. Both are perfectly legal. Both are widely socially accepted, and both are used to obtain a specific result, much like caffeine and alcohol. I just choose to steer clear of alcohol because of its impairing nature.

[xsecx]

Yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at. Good point.
But where does one draw the line? Acetominophen and aspirin are drugs. Both are perfectly legal. Both are widely socially accepted, and both are used to obtain a specific result, much like caffeine and alcohol. I just choose to steer clear of alcohol because of its impairing nature.

yeah, except both of those are used as medicine and not recreational drugs like alcohol and most uses of caffeine. 1 beer wouldn't impair you though.

[PROPER JERK]

Yeah, that's kinda what I was getting at. Good point.
But where does one draw the line? Acetominophen and aspirin are drugs. Both are perfectly legal. Both are widely socially accepted, and both are used to obtain a specific result, much like caffeine and alcohol. I just choose to steer clear of alcohol because of its impairing nature.

I find that painkillers like aspirin or paracetemol effect me far worse than any soda, also I think painkillers are highly abused.

What are your thoughts on that Dusty/anyone else?

[D1988]

I find that painkillers like aspirin or paracetemol effect me far worse than any soda, also I think painkillers are highly abused.

What are your thoughts on that Dusty/anyone else?

Yeah, painkillers are designed to have an effect on you when you are ill/sick/in pain. If you are in pain and you take a painkiller it should obviously effect you for the better. This is medical use not recreational. Someone who is feeling fine and healthy who is poppping painkillers all day would be abusing them, and I agree that they are abused by some people.

[xsecx]

I find that painkillers like aspirin or paracetemol effect me far worse than any soda, also I think painkillers are highly abused.

What are your thoughts on that Dusty/anyone else?

Effect you far worse how though? In that you notice their effect or that there's an ill effect?

I don't see how use of a painkiller when you have a headache is abuse, unless you're talking about thinks like oxycotin or morphine.

[PROPER JERK]

If I take painkillers they basically knock me out... I feel dizzy and tired. It's the same way some people might have a stronger reaction to alcohol or some types of drugs.

Plenty of people abuse painkillers, they use them for the slightest bit of discomfort or pain they might feel. I know people who use painkillers on a regular basis because they have permanent injuries to their back or neck and that to me is a good reason to use medicine to help with pain.

In my eyes taking aspirin or other kinds of painkillers for the common headache is just as weak as drinking coffee to get a jolt or using drugs/alcohol to get a high.

I accept that drugs serve a place and are needed in some circumstances for various reasons but taking them because you have a "headache" is just like using caffeine to wake you up or using drugs to feel high or relax.

The common headache is usually your body telling you it might need either sleep, hydration, food, space, air or even temperature change.

More serious head pain such as sinus headaches or migraines are different and are often dehabilitating, there is not much you can do for these anyway except rest and recover.

Would you agree with other drugs used medically like sleeping pills for people with bad insomnia or drugs like valium or xanax for people with anxiety or panic attacks?

[xsecx]

If I take painkillers they basically knock me out... I feel dizzy and tired. It's the same way some people might have a stronger reaction to alcohol or some types of drugs.

Plenty of people abuse painkillers, they use them for the slightest bit of discomfort or pain they might feel. I know people who use painkillers on a regular basis because they have permanent injuries to their back or neck and that to me is a good reason to use medicine to help with pain.


That's not abuse though. I don't really understand the mentality that you should go through pain because taking a painkiller is somehow wrong.



In my eyes taking aspirin or other kinds of painkillers for the common headache is just as weak as drinking coffee to get a jolt or using drugs/alcohol to get a high.


Ok, why? Why is using something as medicine at all comparable to using something recreationally?




I accept that drugs serve a place and are needed in some circumstances for various reasons but taking them because you have a "headache" is just like using caffeine to wake you up or using drugs to feel high or relax.


Not really. you're trying to compare medicine to recreational use. Just because you don't think the pain of a headache is enough to take a pain killer doesn't make it anywhere near the same as recreational drug use.



The common headache is usually your body telling you it might need either sleep, hydration, food, space, air or even temperature change.

More serious head pain such as sinus headaches or migraines are different and are often dehabilitating, there is not much you can do for these anyway except rest and recover.


So why would/should you suffer the pain of a "common" headache? What's the negative effect of taking an aspirin?



Would you agree with other drugs used medically like sleeping pills for people with bad insomnia or drugs like valium or xanax for people with anxiety or panic attacks?

yes, why wouldn't I? I have no problem with people using drugs medicinally. When you stop using them medicinally, you go into the realm of actual abuse. Why do you think people with sleep disorders or panic attacks should refuse medication?

[mouseman004]

Yeah this is just going to further what has been said by both Dusty and Dean. The difference between an action or a drug breaking edge and not breaking edge is the term recreationally vs. medicinally. It is not a case of which drug effects you the most. If my arm has been blown off, i am not going to turn down morphine or other heavy pain killers because it might break edge. If I am not sleeping at all, I am not going to turn down sleep aids because some might consider it drug abuse. The major idea is whether the drug is used for a medical purpose, or a recreational purpose.

Caffiene on the other hand may not effect you heavily, however the only reason to do it is recrationally, not because you need it. I am not edge because I drink caffiene, but I am not going to argue that caffiene is not a recreational drug because clearly it is.

[PROPER JERK]

Caffeine is recreational there is no denying it, but you have to understand that medicinal drugs are still drugs.. just because they are legal doesnt mean they still dont cause ill effects.

Look at it this way Marijuana is considered both a great sleeping aid and a good pain relief drug, since it is both recreational and medicinal does that mean I could smoke some bongs before bed every night because the doc said so and still be sxe?

Of course if you need an operation or you are badly injured, there is no choice other than to use drugs and that is where they serve their place.

Why did I ask you the question about sleeping pills and valium etc? Because they are the most abused over the counter drugs in the world but because they are legal and medicinal people dont see it as a problem.

[xsecx]

Caffeine is recreational there is no denying it, but you have to understand that medicinal drugs are still drugs.. just because they are legal doesnt mean they still dont cause ill effects.

Look at it this way Marijuana is considered both a great sleeping aid and a good pain relief drug, since it is both recreational and medicinal does that mean I could smoke some bongs before bed every night because the doc said so and still be sxe?

Of course if you need an operation or you are badly injured, there is no choice other than to use drugs and that is where they serve their place.

Why did I ask you the question about sleeping pills and valium etc? Because they are the most abused over the counter drugs in the world but because they are legal and medicinal people dont see it as a problem.

Do you understand the difference between recreational and medicinal and how something can't be both at the same time?

[PROPER JERK]

Do you understand the difference between recreational and medicinal and how something can't be both at the same time?

Are you fuckin kidding me?

Morphine both medicinal and recreational

Marijuana both medicinal and recreational

Valium both medicinal and recreational

ketamine both medicinal and recreational

In most cases it's the medicinal drugs that are abused, just because the user might not see his valium or sleeping pill addiction as recreational and just something he needs to sleep or stop them from freaking out in most cases the drugs are overused.

Just because pfizer or some big drug company sells the drug it makes it better than the illegal drugs?

Sure straight edge is stance against recreational drugs, but using any other drug you use medicinally is ok?

[mouseman004]

Are you fuckin kidding me?

Morphine both medicinal and recreational

Marijuana both medicinal and recreational

Valium both medicinal and recreational

ketamine both medicinal and recreational

In most cases it's the medicinal drugs that are abused, just because the user might not see his valium or sleeping pill addiction as recreational and just something he needs to sleep or stop them from freaking out in most cases the drugs are overused.

Just because pfizer or some big drug company sells the drug it makes it better than the illegal drugs?

Sure straight edge is stance against recreational drugs, but using any other drug you use medicinally is ok?


Dusty is not saying (correct me if i am wrong here) that because a drug can be used medically that it is okay to take any time. If you are taking morphine because it makes you feel good but you have no purpose for taking it, that is taking the drug recreationally and would be breaking edge. If however you have a medical reason (such as being covered in third degree burns) for taking the drug, or you need it for medical purposes, then you are not using it recreationally and therefore it is not breaking edge.

[PROPER JERK]

Dusty is not saying (correct me if i am wrong here) that because a drug can be used medically that it is okay to take any time. If you are taking morphine because it makes you feel good but you have no purpose for taking it, that is taking the drug recreationally and would be breaking edge. If however you have a medical reason (such as being covered in third degree burns) for taking the drug, or you need it for medical purposes, then you are not using it recreationally and therefore it is not breaking edge.

Yeh, I'm not stupid... I said to him before that if I was to take a recreational drug medically such as Marijuana for a sleep disorder or for pain relief could I still be sxe?

Obviously taking any kind of substance recreationally would be breaking sxe.

[D1988]

Yeh, I'm not stupid... I said to him before that if I was to take a recreational drug medically such as Marijuana for a sleep disorder or for pain relief could I still be sxe?

Out of all of the legal medicines to take for such problems why would you choose marijuana which is a class C drug and is illegal? There are more than enough legal drugs out there for this sort of problem so there would be no need to use marijuana medically at all. It annoys me how people in the UK even are trying to get this shit legalised for "medical" reasons because its fucking ridiculous.

[xsecx]

Are you fuckin kidding me?

Morphine both medicinal and recreational

Marijuana both medicinal and recreational

Valium both medicinal and recreational

ketamine both medicinal and recreational

In most cases it's the medicinal drugs that are abused, just because the user might not see his valium or sleeping pill addiction as recreational and just something he needs to sleep or stop them from freaking out in most cases the drugs are overused.

Just because pfizer or some big drug company sells the drug it makes it better than the illegal drugs?

Sure straight edge is stance against recreational drugs, but using any other drug you use medicinally is ok?

if you're using something medicinally you can't abuse it and you're not using it recreationally. Most drugs can be used as either and the definitions of each are pretty clear that they are mutually exclusive. If you're suffering from addiction, you're not using something medically at that point, you're abusing it by definition. So I still don't see your point or issue with people using a "drug" medicinally.

[xsecx]

Yeh, I'm not stupid... I said to him before that if I was to take a recreational drug medically such as Marijuana for a sleep disorder or for pain relief could I still be sxe?

Obviously taking any kind of substance recreationally would be breaking sxe.

Why wouldn't it be? What makes one drug ok to use medically and another not? If I'm suffering from glaucoma and there's no other treatment available, why would I not use Marijuana? Or should people just be forced to suffer from that too?

[PROPER JERK]

Why wouldn't it be? What makes one drug ok to use medically and another not? If I'm suffering from glaucoma and there's no other treatment available, why would I not use Marijuana? Or should people just be forced to suffer from that too?

Alright cool I am glad you agree with that, there is so many people that seem to think that because it's a legal drug they are taking it's ok to abuse it or they dont think of it as abuse. Point I was trying to get at is that people really overuse painkillers everytime they feel the slightest bit unhappy or unwell.

[xsecx]

Alright cool I am glad you agree with that, there is so many people that seem to think that because it's a legal drug they are taking it's ok to abuse it or they dont think of it as abuse. Point I was trying to get at is that people really overuse painkillers everytime they feel the slightest bit unhappy or unwell.

yeah, but why should people suffer pain or a cold needlessly?

[BornAgainVirginDrugs]

If you don't need the drugs, don't take them. It's that simple.