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strombollii
02-11-2007, 11:28 AM
I really wasn't sure where to post this, because he certainly isn't hardcore, he's a rapper...but I happen to like him and he embodies the ideals that i stand for...straightedge and his political stance.


Anyone ever heard of Sage Francis or have any opinion on him?

http://www.myspace.com/sagefrancis

xsecx
02-11-2007, 12:34 PM
I really wasn't sure where to post this, because he certainly isn't hardcore, he's a rapper...but I happen to like him and he embodies the ideals that i stand for...straightedge and his political stance.


Anyone ever heard of Sage Francis or have any opinion on him?

http://www.myspace.com/sagefrancis

his old stuff is a lot better than his new stuff. now it just sounds over produced.

straightXed
02-11-2007, 12:40 PM
I really wasn't sure where to post this, because he certainly isn't hardcore, he's a rapper...but I happen to like him and he embodies the ideals that i stand for...straightedge and his political stance.


Anyone ever heard of Sage Francis or have any opinion on him?

http://www.myspace.com/sagefrancis

Yeah, i think its nice that he speaks about certain issues regarding drinking or drugs etc. but i also feel that if he were to claim his opinions to be straightedge then its a negative action towards straightedge as a subculture, its essentially the action of removing straightedge from hardcore. Sometimes people myopically see straightedge as just abstinance and the act of being drug free, but what actually makes straightedge unique is its inherent involvement of hardcore, this is what makes sage francis not straightedge, although his stance is admirable none the less. I own a couple of his records as i actually quite like hip hop, its interesting but its not great, it would be nice to see a similar subculture in hip hop come about where drugs and drink are avoided but it would be a new subculture and shouldn't be called straightedge, perhaps it could be hip hop kids that avoided guns, drugs and bling, similar but different and much more relevent to the hip hop world. If it caught on and established itself with a name altough many hardcore kids wouldn't support guns drugs or bling it wouldn't make them a part of this subculture, it would be relevent to hip hop kids as opposed to hardcore kids. Thats really the only issue i have with sage francis aside from certain composition issues.

xGriffox
02-11-2007, 07:00 PM
anyone listen to superXcontra an all straightedge rap group from queens?
They are actually really good and remind me a lot of wu-tang meets a tribe called quest.

edit: what sage francis albums would you recommend? I only have one song and don't know where to go from here.

xsecx
02-11-2007, 07:35 PM
anyone listen to superXcontra an all straightedge rap group from queens?
They are actually really good and remind me a lot of wu-tang meets a tribe called quest.

edit: what sage francis albums would you recommend? I only have one song and don't know where to go from here.

personal journals was good. healthy distrust was not.

strombollii
02-15-2007, 05:42 PM
Yeah, i think its nice that he speaks about certain issues regarding drinking or drugs etc. but i also feel that if he were to claim his opinions to be straightedge then its a negative action towards straightedge as a subculture, its essentially the action of removing straightedge from hardcore. Sometimes people myopically see straightedge as just abstinance and the act of being drug free, but what actually makes straightedge unique is its inherent involvement of hardcore, this is what makes sage francis not straightedge, although his stance is admirable none the less. I own a couple of his records as i actually quite like hip hop, its interesting but its not great, it would be nice to see a similar subculture in hip hop come about where drugs and drink are avoided but it would be a new subculture and shouldn't be called straightedge, perhaps it could be hip hop kids that avoided guns, drugs and bling, similar but different and much more relevent to the hip hop world. If it caught on and established itself with a name altough many hardcore kids wouldn't support guns drugs or bling it wouldn't make them a part of this subculture, it would be relevent to hip hop kids as opposed to hardcore kids. Thats really the only issue i have with sage francis aside from certain composition issues.

Actually, he doesn't address the fact that he is straightedge in any of his songs, but I know where you're coming from and agree wholeheartedly. It's disheartening to see the direction that hiphop has turned towards (blatent drug use, degredation of women)...of course it's always been a decidedly drug-friendly (sub)culture.

As for the comment about Healthy Distrust being a bad record as a whole, I have to say that I like a few songs off of it, but I think that (as afore mentioned) his older stuff was far better.


anyone listen to superXcontra an all straightedge rap group from queens?
They are actually really good and remind me a lot of wu-tang meets a tribe called quest.

edit: what sage francis albums would you recommend? I only have one song and don't know where to go from here.

As Dusty said, Distrust is very over-produced and reflects what alot of rap/hiphop sounds like today (think eminem as a fair comparison), I'd say Personal Journals is the fairest balance between the two extremes.

Michael
02-15-2007, 05:58 PM
I definitely like xReign of Terrorx better than Sage Francis, though i've only heard Healthy Distrust which doesn't seem like its all that well compared to his other stuff.

strombollii
02-15-2007, 06:09 PM
I definitely like xReign of Terrorx better than Sage Francis, though i've only heard Healthy Distrust which doesn't seem like its all that well compared to his other stuff.

xReign of Terrorx is dope as hell.

unrelated to XROTX, but does anyone like Atmosphere?

straightXed
02-16-2007, 08:44 AM
Actually, he doesn't address the fact that he is straightedge in any of his songs, but I know where you're coming from and agree wholeheartedly. It's disheartening to see the direction that hiphop has turned towards (blatent drug use, degredation of women)...of course it's always been a decidedly drug-friendly (sub)culture.

He does speak of abstinance from drinking and doing drugs in his lyrics and he has addressed being straightedge in numerous interviews. I never said he addressed being straightedge in his songs but i did say if he were to claim his opinions were that of being straightedge that it wouldn't be all that benificial. Its quite easy for people to read about a rapper, who says they are straightedge and raps about negative points of drugs, to attach the label of straightedge to that music. He has described himself as straightedge in interviews and has mentioned a partial vague interest in early hardcore bands, well he's heard of minor threat! But i generally tend to find his views unsupportive of straightedge as a real subculture and more like a description of being drug free so i suggest to you that it is debateable that his being straightedge is fact.

yeah, hip hop hasn't really turned towards blatent drug use it has started there, it could however turn in a new direction and evolve something new just as hardcore was a new direction away from the blatent drug use and nihilistic attitude present in punk..




As for the comment about Healthy Distrust being a bad record as a whole, I have to say that I like a few songs off of it, but I think that (as afore mentioned) his older stuff was far better.

there wasn't a comment about that record in the text you quoted, i believe you are addressing someone else at this point.

xGriffox
02-16-2007, 09:26 PM
I don't see how he can do any harm to straight edge other than making the name a little off. I mean if a kid hears a rapper rap about abstaining from drugs and then decides that drugs aren't for him either and starts to call himself straight edge, i could care less. It's a label. It's really not THAT important. Hell if it makes someone make a positive change in their life i am not gonna stand there and criticize them for not knowing who ian mackaye is. In my opinion the final product of someone living drug free is more important than if they know exactly what straight edge is, i mean you can inform them, but you don't have to be so aggressive about it like i see on these boards so constantly.

And sage francis is into a lot of heavier stuff, i heard somewhere he has a metal side project or something of the sorts so he probably at one point listened to or still does listen to hardcore.

xsecx
02-16-2007, 09:37 PM
I don't see how he can do any harm to straight edge other than making the name a little off. I mean if a kid hears a rapper rap about abstaining from drugs and then decides that drugs aren't for him either and starts to call himself straight edge, i could care less. It's a label. It's really not THAT important. Hell if it makes someone make a positive change in their life i am not gonna stand there and criticize them for not knowing who ian mackaye is. In my opinion the final product of someone living drug free is more important than if they know exactly what straight edge is, i mean you can inform them, but you don't have to be so aggressive about it like i see on these boards so constantly.


Positive change is one thing, leading to the co-opting of a subculture is another. The final product that you're talking about is someone temporarily calling themselves straight edge, telling other people their incorrect view of what it is, and a further diluting the subculture. The fact is that the message and everything that goes along with it is what makes straight edge actually attractive and what influences people. it isn't something simply saying "just say no". you keep having people "becoming straight edge" that have no clue and no connection to the actual subculture, then that actual subculture dies. This is why you see people be aggressive about it, because it is about the preservation of the subculture AND the education of people coming into it, in the hopes that in a few years straight edge will actually still exist and won't just be a label like you think it is.

straightXed
02-16-2007, 11:58 PM
I don't see how he can do any harm to straight edge other than making the name a little off. I mean if a kid hears a rapper rap about abstaining from drugs and then decides that drugs aren't for him either and starts to call himself straight edge, i could care less. It's a label. It's really not THAT important. Hell if it makes someone make a positive change in their life i am not gonna stand there and criticize them for not knowing who ian mackaye is. In my opinion the final product of someone living drug free is more important than if they know exactly what straight edge is, i mean you can inform them, but you don't have to be so aggressive about it like i see on these boards so constantly.

dusty covered all this perfectly. Oh, except for you said "could care less" when you meant couldn't care less unless you were making an exclamation of caring as opposed to not caring. Thats just a personal pet hate. But i would love for you to illustrate exactly what was aggressive about my post? Was it just because you feel threatened by a different viewpoint than your own that makes you feel its aggressive, if thats the case i understand but if thats not the case then please point to the aggression you speak of.


And sage francis is into a lot of heavier stuff, i heard somewhere he has a metal side project or something of the sorts so he probably at one point listened to or still does listen to hardcore.

I'd just like to say that listening to heavy music like metal doesn't automatically tie you to hardcore, its a flawed and strained association with nothing to suggest its valid of true. I mean lots of kids listen to metal and have never heard hardcore or are even aware of the straightedge subculture.

xGriffox
02-18-2007, 12:00 PM
well it wasn't directed at this thread exactly but in other threads people have gotten pretty aggressive when it came to the topic of people not being straight edge if they don't listen to hardcore. It's true, but no need to be so aggressive when it comes to it.

I'm not even gonna try to debate in this thread anymore because i know i can't win with you two.

strombollii
02-18-2007, 07:47 PM
I'll side with ya, xgriffox.
I mean, I'm sure that I'll get flamed for this, but if the guy claims to listen to hardcore but raps instead as a means of expressing himself, i see no reason why the two conflict?