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Michael
07-05-2006, 02:41 PM
I was just wondering if anyone knew about CM Punk, the wrestler who is sxe? He has been wrestling on the independent circuits for a while and just debuted with ECW on Sci-Fi Network. (Tuesdays at 10 PM) A wrestler being edge sounds crazy with all the drugs and steroids, but Punk apparently is legit.
http://www.rohphotos.com/4images/data/media/41/IMG_6773.JPG

xsecx
07-05-2006, 02:42 PM
I was just wondering if anyone knew about CM Punk, the wrestler who is sxe? He has been wrestling on the independent circuits for a while and just debuted with ECW on Sci-Fi Network. (Tuesdays at 10 PM) A wrestler being edge sounds crazy with all the drugs and steroids, but Punk apparently is legit.
http://www.rohphotos.com/4images/data/media/41/IMG_6773.JPG

using straight edge as a gimmick is a horrible idea.

Michael
07-05-2006, 02:51 PM
He never refers to it as a gimmick, but as his lifestyle. I always thought he was legit, he's into hardcore and everything. Of course being in this kind of spotlight, he will always be criticized by people who are edge and even people who aren't. His gimmick isn't really based on being edge, its just what he is and occasionaly cuts promos on being edge.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CM_Punk

xsecx
07-05-2006, 02:54 PM
He never refers to it as a gimmick, but as his lifestyle. I always thought he was legit, he's into hardcore and everything. Of course being in this kind of spotlight, he will always be criticized by people who are edge and even people who aren't. His gimmick is really based on being edge, its just what he is and occasionaly cuts promos on being edge.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CM_Punk

which is fine, but it still comes down to a gimmick and a way to market himself, especially with lines like "i'm straight edge so that means I'm better than you", and that shit is wack.

mouseman004
07-05-2006, 03:14 PM
I was just wondering if anyone knew about CM Punk, the wrestler who is sxe? He has been wrestling on the independent circuits for a while and just debuted with ECW on Sci-Fi Network. (Tuesdays at 10 PM) A wrestler being edge sounds crazy with all the drugs and steroids, but Punk apparently is legit.
http://www.rohphotos.com/4images/data/media/41/IMG_6773.JPG


I've known about him for a while now, a friend of mine is huge into wresting and we were talking about this guy months ago. Its cool that he can get into the wrestling world without the drugs, but I agree with Dusty, its not cool that he is using it as a gimmick.

xCAMIx
07-13-2006, 03:03 AM
I was just wondering if anyone knew about CM Punk, the wrestler who is sxe? He has been wrestling on the independent circuits for a while and just debuted with ECW on Sci-Fi Network. (Tuesdays at 10 PM) A wrestler being edge sounds crazy with all the drugs and steroids, but Punk apparently is legit.
http://www.rohphotos.com/4images/data/media/41/IMG_6773.JPG
He's sorta old news. It's cool though. And alot of wrestlers skip the drugs. So don't think he's something so special just because he claims edge. And hardcore, I think not his only 2 entrance themes have been A.F.I.'s "This Time Imperfect" and Jay-Z's "99 Problems" (Definately not an edge song or even hardcore for that matter). I really have wanted to see him "wrestle though because I've heard he's got some crazy moves.

xCAMIx
07-13-2006, 03:05 AM
By the way, pro wrestling is NOT[ a sport. It's body art and entertainment.

crissXdravan
07-13-2006, 10:38 PM
CM Punk is one of my inspirations actully.

Being a pro wrestler myself at a young age he is what helps me stay sXe. Only because he has done my dream and shares my beleifes so it lets me know I can do it.

About his music, well can ya really blame him. He works in a business where you get over by the crowd and have to appeal to them even if your a bad guy. I use "Down With The Sickness" by Disturbed because it works for my wrestling character. As does he with A.F.I because his gimmick isnt only sXe in the indies but he is also sapose to be kinda a "lost soul" if you will.

If you seen his feud with wrestler, Raven, over Raven's past drug addiction it was one of the best feuds ever. Although there was a point in the feud where CM Punk was tied to the ropes and had beer poured over him and on his mouth. His promo about sXe and his abusive father is seen as his best stuff.

His finishing move was the Pepsi Plunge (Top rope pedigree)

My gimmick has nothing to do with straight edge although I may mention it. I am also going to sport the X on the hands. CM Punk's straight edge gimmick is sapose to piss of some straight edgers too though thats why he plays a straight edger who forces his beleifes on all.

xvunderx
07-14-2006, 08:41 AM
CM Punk is one of my inspirations actully.

Being a pro wrestler myself at a young age he is what helps me stay sXe. Only because he has done my dream and shares my beleifes so it lets me know I can do it.

About his music, well can ya really blame him. He works in a business where you get over by the crowd and have to appeal to them even if your a bad guy. I use "Down With The Sickness" by Disturbed because it works for my wrestling character. As does he with A.F.I because his gimmick isnt only sXe in the indies but he is also sapose to be kinda a "lost soul" if you will.

If you seen his feud with wrestler, Raven, over Raven's past drug addiction it was one of the best feuds ever. Although there was a point in the feud where CM Punk was tied to the ropes and had beer poured over him and on his mouth. His promo about sXe and his abusive father is seen as his best stuff.

His finishing move was the Pepsi Plunge (Top rope pedigree)

My gimmick has nothing to do with straight edge although I may mention it. I am also going to sport the X on the hands. CM Punk's straight edge gimmick is sapose to piss of some straight edgers too though thats why he plays a straight edger who forces his beleifes on all.

See to me that just makes a mockery of Straight edge, and i think is disrespectful. he might be edge, but I don't think he's doing anything positive for the scene.

In fact I find it all very insulting to all straight edgers.

xCAMIx
08-06-2006, 03:34 PM
See to me that just makes a mockery of Straight edge, and i think is disrespectful. he might be edge, but I don't think he's doing anything positive for the scene.

In fact I find it all very insulting to all straight edgers.
He's giving wrestling fans a direct passage to our world...what's so blasphemous about that? A.F.I. is one of the things that taught me about straight edge, just because they aren't doing anything necissarily great for hardcore or straight edge, does that make them insulting?

xCAMIx
08-06-2006, 03:37 PM
CM Punk is one of my inspirations actully.

Being a pro wrestler myself at a young age he is what helps me stay sXe. Only because he has done my dream and shares my beleifes so it lets me know I can do it.

About his music, well can ya really blame him. He works in a business where you get over by the crowd and have to appeal to them even if your a bad guy. I use "Down With The Sickness" by Disturbed because it works for my wrestling character. As does he with A.F.I because his gimmick isnt only sXe in the indies but he is also sapose to be kinda a "lost soul" if you will.

If you seen his feud with wrestler, Raven, over Raven's past drug addiction it was one of the best feuds ever. Although there was a point in the feud where CM Punk was tied to the ropes and had beer poured over him and on his mouth. His promo about sXe and his abusive father is seen as his best stuff.

His finishing move was the Pepsi Plunge (Top rope pedigree)

My gimmick has nothing to do with straight edge although I may mention it. I am also going to sport the X on the hands. CM Punk's straight edge gimmick is sapose to piss of some straight edgers too though thats why he plays a straight edger who forces his beleifes on all.
Whats your gimmick?
Got a link to your vids or organization?
Oh and in later news, a friend of mine met an ECW writer who knows Nikolai Volkoff (lives here in Maryland), and he might be able to get hooked up with some training.

xsecx
08-06-2006, 03:38 PM
He's giving wrestling fans a direct passage to our world...what's so blasphemous about that? A.F.I. is one of the things that taught me about straight edge, just because they aren't doing anything necissarily great for hardcore or straight edge, does that make them insulting?

the fact that it's a gimmick. the wording. the imagery. How is he giving wrestling fans anything other than entertainment and an incorrect perception as to what straight edge is about?

and I'm glad you can go through and find old posts but can't actually address the recent ones that people have made to you. way to not back down!

xCAMIx
08-07-2006, 03:02 PM
No one said anything about backing down but you... stop being such an asshole because my beliefs aren't yours.

xsecx
08-07-2006, 03:09 PM
No one said anything about backing down but you... stop being such an asshole because my beliefs aren't yours.

but you do back down, repeatedly. I mean, you talked big in the post where your mom almost fought some kids for you. You're steadfast in your beliefs, you don't have to listen, think, research anything. No one can teach you anything, you're a fucking idiot savant. Where are you at in the porn thread? The abortion thread?
The thing that's funny is that you think I'm an asshole because your beliefs aren't mine, and that's not it at all. I'm an asshole to you because you spout shit about how you don't back down and how your beliefs are oh so strong, but you can't even see a simple discussion through to completion. You shoot off your mouth without thinking things through and have a damn near impossible time coming to terms with reality.

xCAMIx
08-07-2006, 04:22 PM
but you do back down, repeatedly. I mean, you talked big in the post where your mom almost fought some kids for you. You're steadfast in your beliefs, you don't have to listen, think, research anything. No one can teach you anything, you're a fucking idiot savant. Where are you at in the porn thread? The abortion thread?
The thing that's funny is that you think I'm an asshole because your beliefs aren't mine, and that's not it at all. I'm an asshole to you because you spout shit about how you don't back down and how your beliefs are oh so strong, but you can't even see a simple discussion through to completion. You shoot off your mouth without thinking things through and have a damn near impossible time coming to terms with reality.
My mom didn't really do anything but push one, not for me, but because he called her a bitch. They thought I'd run away for some reason, but they backed down. I listen you fuckhead, I just know how to keep my opinions. You Abortion thread ended, and I still hold my opinion, just less melted down. So, you can blow that "you can't listen" shit to hell. You hardly ever listen when you really think about it.. you barely acknowledge what I say to you, and at least I've changed a little bit. Damn, you think because you own the site that you can just be a fucking asshole and make people submit. Well not me. And I get pretty damn fustrated with alot of people hatin on me, so I don't bother finishing discussions sometime, why? Because I don't have to and it keeps me from giving a fuck. I'm in reality, bucko.

xsecx
08-07-2006, 06:04 PM
My mom didn't really do anything but push one, not for me, but because he called her a bitch. They thought I'd run away for some reason, but they backed down.


you got your mom involved. this is exactly what I'm talking about you not understanding or accepting reality. You did run away and hid behind your mom.



I listen you fuckhead, I just know how to keep my opinions. You Abortion thread ended, and I still hold my opinion, just less melted down. So, you can blow that "you can't listen" shit to hell. You hardly ever listen when you really think about it.. you barely acknowledge what I say to you, and at least I've changed a little bit. Damn, you think because you own the site that you can just be a fucking asshole and make people submit. Well not me. And I get pretty damn fustrated with alot of people hatin on me, so I don't bother finishing discussions sometime, why? Because I don't have to and it keeps me from giving a fuck. I'm in reality, bucko.

If you listened, you'd actually learn something, you don't and you demonstrate this by saying shit like "I just know how to keep my opinions." You've repeatedly demonstrated time and time again that you can't admit when you're wrong. This has been pointed out by several people. The thread didn't end, you tucked your tail between your legs and stopped responding when it was illustrated that you were wrong. I don't acknowledge what you say, because if you actually go back and read, everything you've argued about with me has been incorrect and not backed up, so why would I acknowledge it? Why do you think people are "hatin" on you? Because of your fucked up inferiority complex and inability to accept and deal with reality, so you build up this fantasy world where straight edge isn't against drinking and jesus wasn't perfect because that's what it takes for your fucked up little opinions to be right. You don't bother finishing anything because you're a fucked up little retard who would rather live a lie than face the truth, real edge dude!

Big_O_is_Stupid
08-10-2006, 12:18 AM
Owned.

xCAMIx
08-19-2006, 04:09 PM
Owned.
When did Fat Bastard from Austin Powers become a part of the wanna be bloods gang?

xCAMIx
08-19-2006, 04:13 PM
you got your mom involved. this is exactly what I'm talking about you not understanding or accepting reality. You did run away and hid behind your mom.



If you listened, you'd actually learn something, you don't and you demonstrate this by saying shit like "I just know how to keep my opinions." You've repeatedly demonstrated time and time again that you can't admit when you're wrong. This has been pointed out by several people. The thread didn't end, you tucked your tail between your legs and stopped responding when it was illustrated that you were wrong. I don't acknowledge what you say, because if you actually go back and read, everything you've argued about with me has been incorrect and not backed up, so why would I acknowledge it? Why do you think people are "hatin" on you? Because of your fucked up inferiority complex and inability to accept and deal with reality, so you build up this fantasy world where straight edge isn't against drinking and jesus wasn't perfect because that's what it takes for your fucked up little opinions to be right. You don't bother finishing anything because you're a fucked up little retard who would rather live a lie than face the truth, real edge dude!
My mom got herself involved. And you weren't around to see anything, so I think you might as well trap it about that situation , because nothing positive seems to come out of your mouth too often lately.
I'm living no lies. I took time to look into things. And I was wrong here and there, but who's not. Sec's never been wrong? Yeah right. I don't care who you are, what site you own, how long youv'e been in hardcore, bro..not everyone's gonna see things exactly the way you do just becuse youv'e been around longer, etc.

xsecx
08-19-2006, 07:00 PM
My mom got herself involved. And you weren't around to see anything, so I think you might as well trap it about that situation , because nothing positive seems to come out of your mouth too often lately.


gee, the big tough don't back down guy sure is getting defensive of his mom fighting his battle's huh?




I'm living no lies. I took time to look into things. And I was wrong here and there, but who's not. Sec's never been wrong? Yeah right. I don't care who you are, what site you own, how long youv'e been in hardcore, bro..not everyone's gonna see things exactly the way you do just becuse youv'e been around longer, etc.
Where have you said you're wrong? Where have you admitted that you're wrong and what you've been wrong about? Sweet jesus you can't even come to terms and admit it. I like how you still haven't accepted reality and turn this into another lame attempt to talk about how you don't care about me, but right after saying you're wrong about things? what's up napoleon? do you walk around with your hand in your shirt too? Is anything you live true? Or do you have this whole fantasy world built up in your head where you're smart, well read, think before you speak and don't have an inferiority complex that makes it so you have to present this bullshit image?

Andies Addiction sXe
09-02-2006, 01:09 PM
i am a pro wrestler and i think his gimmick is great its something that hasnt been done in wrestling yet.

straightXed
09-02-2006, 01:34 PM
i am a pro wrestler and i think his gimmick is great its something that hasnt been done in wrestling yet.

How do you feel about its effect on straightedge as a whole? Do you feel that him using it as a gimmick in this way will actively aid in making straightedge less unique? do you think he gives the immpression that hardcore is not an integral part of what makes up straightedge? Do you really think it should be used as a gimmick?

Whats your prowrestling gimmick?

xvunderx
09-02-2006, 05:06 PM
i am a pro wrestler and i think his gimmick is great its something that hasnt been done in wrestling yet.

What does pro-wrestling have to do with sXe?

I believe that what he is doing cheapens the scene, I also feel he is exploiting the people who have made this scene great to further his own career.

This is how the mainstream has killed off pretty much all subcultures, it saddens me to see him selling every one involved in Edge down the stream for a couple of bucks and his 15 minutes of fame.

mouseman004
09-02-2006, 05:50 PM
What does pro-wrestling have to do with sXe?

I believe that what he is doing cheapens the scene, I also feel he is exploiting the people who have made this scene great to further his own career.

This is how the mainstream has killed off pretty much all subcultures, it saddens me to see him selling every one involved in Edge down the stream for a couple of bucks and his 15 minutes of fame.


It's not that pro wrestling has anything to do with sxe, its more that the majority of professional wrestlers use steriods or other performance enhancing drugs, so CM punk is getting out the fact that he wrestle's with all these guys without doing any of those drugs. I don't necessarily agree with him using it as a gimmick, but I think its cool that there is a wrestler out there who isnt jacked up on some sort of drug all the time.

mouseman004
09-02-2006, 05:54 PM
Maybe we are reading too much into this. Maybe he is not using it as a gimmick to give him money, maybe he is just making it clear that he is straight edge because he is proud of it. I don't think claiming edge as a gimmick would gain him any money or fame because realistically, most of the demographic he is reaching out to, would not even know what straight edge is until after they see him. They wouldn't say "hey hes straight edge, lets buy his shit". Maybe he makes it clear hes edge because he is proud of it and wants people to know.

xvunderx
09-02-2006, 06:16 PM
It's not that pro wrestling has anything to do with sxe, its more that the majority of professional wrestlers use steriods or other performance enhancing drugs, so CM punk is getting out the fact that he wrestle's with all these guys without doing any of those drugs. I don't necessarily agree with him using it as a gimmick, but I think its cool that there is a wrestler out there who isnt jacked up on some sort of drug all the time.

Then why not just be a drug free wrestler?

xvunderx
09-02-2006, 06:19 PM
Maybe we are reading too much into this. Maybe he is not using it as a gimmick to give him money, maybe he is just making it clear that he is straight edge because he is proud of it. I don't think claiming edge as a gimmick would gain him any money or fame because realistically, most of the demographic he is reaching out to, would not even know what straight edge is until after they see him. They wouldn't say "hey hes straight edge, lets buy his shit". Maybe he makes it clear hes edge because he is proud of it and wants people to know.

Yeah but it's a character, he might be sXe, but the story lines etc around it and the "I'm sXe so I'm better than you" stuff has nothing to do with a personal choice and everything to do with setting himself apart from other wrestlers, and thus making himself more successful.

Being sXe gives him story line opportunities and match up, this gives him more fame and money, as well as memorability. It's marketing.

straightXed
09-02-2006, 07:21 PM
Maybe we are reading too much into this. Maybe he is not using it as a gimmick to give him money, maybe he is just making it clear that he is straight edge because he is proud of it. I don't think claiming edge as a gimmick would gain him any money or fame because realistically, most of the demographic he is reaching out to, would not even know what straight edge is until after they see him. They wouldn't say "hey hes straight edge, lets buy his shit". Maybe he makes it clear hes edge because he is proud of it and wants people to know.

But he is using it as a gimmick, his own site even says "Punk is famous for his "Straight Edge" gimmick" its not really relative to wrestling and is used to highlight himself as quite different. He uses it to have an identity or character people can buy into, wrestlers that are straightforward wrestlers with no gimmick don't get remembered and thus don't stick around and make money. Wrestling is full of gimmicks and regardless if he is proud of it he is still using it to be a gimmick and it doesn't show pride of where it all comes from. His site gives a quick mention tominor threat but it pails in comparison to the amount of kids that are going to end up picking up the term and misusing it. He says what you see in the world of him wrestling is exactly how he is but its a bullshit statement, for one wrestleng is all dramatised and two, if he is like that and thats how he supports straight edge - well thats dumb - wanna show how much straightedge means then go to shows, support bands etc. don't just use it as a marketable tool. And unfortunately the demographic he is aimed at is also subject to aim from other sources, for instance hot topic, that give a diluted immpression of straightedge. I mean hot topic love to jump on shit like this and if you look at the number of kids that seem to be enjoying CM punk and end up coming to this site with that as their only knowledge of sxe then you will see that the demogaphic is immpressionable enough to want to buy into the idea. Now imagine hot topic want to bring CM punk merchandise into their stores to further market their approach to straightedge marketing which tends to not support or really encompass the community of hardcore. Its manipulation of a youth market and it all leads to kids taking straightedge out of hardcore and watering down the term straightedge. Kids identify with cm punk, thats fine but cm punk is giving them the idea that hardcore isn't a vital element of straightedge and what it consists of is simply not drinking, smoking or doing drugs - generally giving a disregard to hardcore. And we end up seeing what happens a lot on the internet, kids using a term to describe themselves before they fully understand it. Often they will find that there is more to what they have been calling themselves but a lot of the time they don't really get into the hardcore side of things and what is really unfortunate is that by this time they don't want to let go of their shiny new self describing label, even if it doesn't reflect them correctly. So then we end up with straightedge becoming open to all sorts of interpretation along with a commercial force deciding how they can best utilise this marketable tool to best cash in. This is pretty much how loads of other subcultures ate themselves and became less dynamic and at worst meaningless or little more than a cyclic fashion fad to reinvent. Kids will be using a hardcore term and not support hardcore at all, it happens too often as it is. All this from a wrestler using it as a gimmick, not all down to him but he is part of the problem, hardcore and straightedge isn't about huge corperations, people have worked hard and struggled to create a underground community away from all that, its a major driving point of the whole movement and it shouldn't be forgotten that that is what its about. Its not for sale.

stepinsideissue
09-03-2006, 01:29 AM
When did Fat Bastard from Austin Powers become a part of the wanna be bloods gang?


For some one who says keep it posi all the time way to be a hypocrite.

Tex
09-03-2006, 08:48 AM
But he is using it as a gimmick, his own site even says "Punk is famous for his "Straight Edge" gimmick" its not really relative to wrestling and is used to highlight himself as quite different. He uses it to have an identity or character people can buy into, wrestlers that are straightforward wrestlers with no gimmick don't get remembered and thus don't stick around and make money. Wrestling is full of gimmicks and regardless if he is proud of it he is still using it to be a gimmick and it doesn't show pride of where it all comes from. His site gives a quick mention tominor threat but it pails in comparison to the amount of kids that are going to end up picking up the term and misusing it. He says what you see in the world of him wrestling is exactly how he is but its a bullshit statement, for one wrestleng is all dramatised and two, if he is like that and thats how he supports straight edge - well thats dumb - wanna show how much straightedge means then go to shows, support bands etc. don't just use it as a marketable tool. And unfortunately the demographic he is aimed at is also subject to aim from other sources, for instance hot topic, that give a diluted immpression of straightedge. I mean hot topic love to jump on shit like this and if you look at the number of kids that seem to be enjoying CM punk and end up coming to this site with that as their only knowledge of sxe then you will see that the demogaphic is immpressionable enough to want to buy into the idea. Now imagine hot topic want to bring CM punk merchandise into their stores to further market their approach to straightedge marketing which tends to not support or really encompass the community of hardcore. Its manipulation of a youth market and it all leads to kids taking straightedge out of hardcore and watering down the term straightedge. Kids identify with cm punk, thats fine but cm punk is giving them the idea that hardcore isn't a vital element of straightedge and what it consists of is simply not drinking, smoking or doing drugs - generally giving a disregard to hardcore. And we end up seeing what happens a lot on the internet, kids using a term to describe themselves before they fully understand it. Often they will find that there is more to what they have been calling themselves but a lot of the time they don't really get into the hardcore side of things and what is really unfortunate is that by this time they don't want to let go of their shiny new self describing label, even if it doesn't reflect them correctly. So then we end up with straightedge becoming open to all sorts of interpretation along with a commercial force deciding how they can best utilise this marketable tool to best cash in. This is pretty much how loads of other subcultures ate themselves and became less dynamic and at worst meaningless or little more than a cyclic fashion fad to reinvent. Kids will be using a hardcore term and not support hardcore at all, it happens too often as it is. All this from a wrestler using it as a gimmick, not all down to him but he is part of the problem, hardcore and straightedge isn't about huge corperations, people have worked hard and struggled to create a underground community away from all that, its a major driving point of the whole movement and it shouldn't be forgotten that that is what its about. Its not for sale.


Word

xCAMIx
09-03-2006, 09:55 AM
For some one who says keep it posi all the time way to be a hypocrite.
Posi was a while ago. Posi isn't too realistic. You can't stay happy forever. But I'm molding myself everday, so I guess that's sorta posi...

Andies Addiction sXe
09-04-2006, 10:38 AM
It's not that pro wrestling has anything to do with sxe, its more that the majority of professional wrestlers use steriods or other performance enhancing drugs, so CM punk is getting out the fact that he wrestle's with all these guys without doing any of those drugs. I don't necessarily agree with him using it as a gimmick, but I think its cool that there is a wrestler out there who isnt jacked up on some sort of drug all the time.
that is exactly what he is trying to do, yes i know he is kinda using it just to become more over with fans, but every wrestling gimmick is taken from some other idea. thats what we do in wrestling. we take what is cool and we bring it to a mainstream audience. yes this can be bad but its also nice because it can bring more followers.

xvunderx
09-04-2006, 10:54 AM
that is exactly what he is trying to do, yes i know he is kinda using it just to become more over with fans, but every wrestling gimmick is taken from some other idea. thats what we do in wrestling. we take what is cool and we bring it to a mainstream audience. yes this can be bad but its also nice because it can bring more followers.

But what if that something doesn't want the mainstream? And what if it only brings in uneducated followers? The image he puts out of sXe isn't a complete one, and will probably do more harm than good.

straightXed
09-04-2006, 01:45 PM
that is exactly what he is trying to do, yes i know he is kinda using it just to become more over with fans, but every wrestling gimmick is taken from some other idea. thats what we do in wrestling. we take what is cool and we bring it to a mainstream audience. yes this can be bad but its also nice because it can bring more followers.

Hi, i was wondering why my post wasn't addressed?

Mr. Post It
12-08-2007, 10:41 PM
(Man I'm Late)
Yeah, Punk is definately pushing his gimmick too far. Any CM Punk Merchandise, is being sold as if you buy it you'll be Hardcore Straight Edge.

jams_12
03-15-2008, 05:51 PM
I think some of the people are maybe taking CM Punk too seriously as a fan of his I'm gonna back him he is not a typical member of the sXe community but he does embrace the lifestyle like no other professional athlete well other than fellow wrestlers Josh Prohibition and M-Dogg 20 who are also sXe. Punk has been a favorite of mine since I seen him back in IWA Mid-South years ago and in like his first interview one of the first things he said was "I'm drug-free, alcohol-free, tobacco-free better than you" and he only says the better than you part when he is portraying a heel (bad guy) which helps get the character over, he doesn't believe that he is REALLY better than those people. And about the merchandise, if i wear a G-Unit tee does that make me a member of G-Unit so when people wear the CM Punk tees they are doing in support of HIM not the sXe lifestyle.

rodrigo
03-15-2008, 05:55 PM
you guys seriously consider wrestling a sport?

xsecx
03-15-2008, 05:57 PM
I think some of the people are maybe taking CM Punk too seriously as a fan of his I'm gonna back him he is not a typical member of the sXe community but he does embrace the lifestyle like no other professional athlete well other than fellow wrestlers Josh Prohibition and M-Dogg 20 who are also sXe. Punk has been a favorite of mine since I seen him back in IWA Mid-South years ago and in like his first interview one of the first things he said was "I'm drug-free, alcohol-free, tobacco-free better than you" and he only says the better than you part when he is portraying a heel (bad guy) which helps get the character over, he doesn't believe that he is REALLY better than those people. And about the merchandise, if i wear a G-Unit tee does that make me a member of G-Unit so when people wear the CM Punk tees they are doing in support of HIM not the sXe lifestyle.

yeah, g unit is a brand, for all intents and purposes. cm punk is using straight edge as a marketing tool, and that's as fucked up and retarded as he is.

mouseman004
03-15-2008, 05:59 PM
you guys seriously consider wrestling a sport?

Fake or not, those guys are pretty incredible athletes

rodrigo
03-15-2008, 06:05 PM
Fake or not, those guys are pretty incredible athletes
i think everything they do while working out can be a sport, but on stage they just move weirdly and pretend to be beaten up

jams_12
03-15-2008, 06:13 PM
I was really only using G-Unit as an example any band or whatever like someone was to wear a Minor Threat tee that doesn't mean they are sXe necessarily just that they like the band. Is that wrong when a sXe band release a tee to make money?

straightXed
03-15-2008, 08:34 PM
I was really only using G-Unit as an example any band or whatever like someone was to wear a Minor Threat tee that doesn't mean they are sXe necessarily just that they like the band. Is that wrong when a sXe band release a tee to make money?

I don't think sxe band t-shirts are wrong but i also don't really get how that relates to what CM punk does, i mean hardcore and straightedge go hand in hand...wrestling and straightedge do not.

jams_12
03-15-2008, 10:02 PM
The people earlier said that fans might put on a CM Punk tee and think they are straight edge when obviously they ain't (unless they are sxe of course) but my point is just because wrestling and sxe doesn't go hand and hand doesn't mean it can't. I mentioned earlier the names of two wrestlers that I know of (i'd imagine there's more) that are sxe also and so it may not be a majority thing but it does exist in the wrestling business.

straightXed
03-16-2008, 06:17 AM
The people earlier said that fans might put on a CM Punk tee and think they are straight edge when obviously they ain't (unless they are sxe of course) but my point is just because wrestling and sxe doesn't go hand and hand doesn't mean it can't. I mentioned earlier the names of two wrestlers that I know of (i'd imagine there's more) that are sxe also and so it may not be a majority thing but it does exist in the wrestling business.

Using straightedge as a gimmick like marketing tool is not cool, wrestling and straightedge have no connection and mr chick magnet is simply taking straightedge and using it for his own ends. If you can explain how sxe and wrestling could be linked in the way that hardcore and sxe are then you'd have a point but i don't think thats possible.

xsecx
03-16-2008, 08:41 AM
The people earlier said that fans might put on a CM Punk tee and think they are straight edge when obviously they ain't (unless they are sxe of course) but my point is just because wrestling and sxe doesn't go hand and hand doesn't mean it can't. I mentioned earlier the names of two wrestlers that I know of (i'd imagine there's more) that are sxe also and so it may not be a majority thing but it does exist in the wrestling business.

no, in my case I ran into someone that was wearing a shirt that said sraight edge hardcore and had no clue what it was about. How is that something that should be encourage? And how is it something that is at all tied with what straight edge actually is, since none of those wrestlers have anything to do with the straight edge scene as a whole?

angelchickjb
09-23-2008, 06:51 PM
I posted about CM Punk...didn't know you did too sorry.

XDamonXHawkinsX
09-30-2008, 10:22 AM
cm punk is pretty much the only wrestler i take interest anymore i remeber his first promo on ecw about straightedge and i was like oh sweet.he got the message of straightedge out there but i also think he started up alot of posers.

Xedge mofoX
12-16-2008, 12:36 PM
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7637/barfsmileyzr9.gif

Rpayne
01-01-2009, 01:54 PM
the fact that it's a gimmick. the wording. the imagery. How is he giving wrestling fans anything other than entertainment and an incorrect perception as to what straight edge is about?

and I'm glad you can go through and find old posts but can't actually address the recent ones that people have made to you. way to not back down!

The fact that he really is straightedge is awesome. He doesnt use it as a gimmick its just always in the spotlight because he has it tattooed across his abs. The guy is legit about everything he says.

xsecx
01-01-2009, 02:23 PM
The fact that he really is straightedge is awesome. He doesnt use it as a gimmick its just always in the spotlight because he has it tattooed across his abs. The guy is legit about everything he says.

the fact that he's straight edge at this point is debatable, but if you think he's not using it as a marketing tool at this point, you're fooling yourself. I really don't understand why teenage boys especially are such fanboys for wrestlers and raise them up to some kind of status that somehow anything they think or feel is relevant to anything.

mouseman004
01-01-2009, 02:59 PM
The fact that he really is straightedge is awesome. He doesnt use it as a gimmick its just always in the spotlight because he has it tattooed across his abs. The guy is legit about everything he says.

As a wrestler I like him, but him being straight edge is questionable. He has a pepsi symbol tattooed on his arm. And he does use it as a gimmick, he X's up the tape on his hands when he wrestles and he calls himself the straight edge superstar.

Wicked Brown
02-25-2009, 02:21 PM
this guy is awsome he iz my idol

Segadoway
02-25-2009, 11:40 PM
this guy is awsome he iz my idol

if i wasnt trying to be better behaved..........

xTonyThreatx
02-27-2009, 03:25 PM
I think at first he just X'ed up his fists, but it so obvious now he uses it as a gimmick.
He takes every pictures raising his fists making an X.
But on the other hand, he spreads straight edge through an extremely mainstream media, so whether he is edge and "drug-free" (as it is tattooed on his knuckles) or not, at least he is getting it out there.
Plus, the few times I have seen him he is always wearing a decent band tee. So he's not completely fake.

xMaggotAzzAx
04-15-2009, 04:02 PM
I don't think he uses it as a gimmick. It allows him to show what he is and be proud. On the subject of his music it is now 'This Fire Burns' by Killswitch Engage (which is an awesome band and song) and he knows how to hardcore dance to it :P so i think it is fine to show it and be proud.

Wicked Brown
04-29-2009, 08:50 AM
i was just wondering if anyone knew about cm punk, the wrestler who is sxe? He has been wrestling on the independent circuits for a while and just debuted with ecw on sci-fi network. (tuesdays at 10 pm) a wrestler being edge sounds crazy with all the drugs and steroids, but punk apparently is legit.
http://www.rohphotos.com/4images/data/media/41/img_6773.jpg

he's awsome

alex147
05-09-2009, 10:40 AM
I dunno...I love WWE but I can't get into CM Punk. He tries WAY too hard and honestly I don't think he's that good a wrestler. The fact that he's Edge is great but as a performer I don't rate him at all.
If you get so many tattoos proclaiming yourself to be Straight Edge then I doubt it's a gimmick, but he's really putting it out there and it's sort of annoying.

straightXed
05-09-2009, 01:33 PM
I dunno...I love WWE but I can't get into CM Punk. He tries WAY too hard and honestly I don't think he's that good a wrestler. The fact that he's Edge is great but as a performer I don't rate him at all.
If you get so many tattoos proclaiming yourself to be Straight Edge then I doubt it's a gimmick, but he's really putting it out there and it's sort of annoying.

How is he not using it as a gimmick though, i mean if i started marketing myself as a straightedge wrestler the straightedge part is the gimmick and not really relevent as anything but being a gimmick. If he is or isn't straightedge really isn't indicative of it being used as a gimmick or not.

alex147
05-09-2009, 09:34 PM
How is he not using it as a gimmick though, i mean if i started marketing myself as a straightedge wrestler the straightedge part is the gimmick and not really relevent as anything but being a gimmick. If he is or isn't straightedge really isn't indicative of it being used as a gimmick or not.

He probably is using it as a gimmick, but I don't doubt that he is Straight Edge. He's using it as a selling point.

straightXed
05-09-2009, 11:37 PM
He probably is using it as a gimmick, but I don't doubt that he is Straight Edge. He's using it as a selling point.

If he is or he is not, I doubt his passion for it is as deep as his passion for having it as a wrestling gimmick.

alex147
05-10-2009, 01:47 AM
If he is or he is not, I doubt his passion for it is as deep as his passion for having it as a wrestling gimmick.

You wouldn't get a huge tattoo on your stomach if you weren't somewhat dedicated to it. Doesn't really matter to me though. I watch the WWE for other reasons besides Punk.

straightXed
05-10-2009, 10:40 AM
You wouldn't get a huge tattoo on your stomach if you weren't somewhat dedicated to it. Doesn't really matter to me though. I watch the WWE for other reasons besides Punk.

If it was part of your livlihood to do so and that was a very prosperous livlihood, why wouldn't you? But that isn't what i was saying, i was saying that i feel he is way more passionate about wrestling and having a wrestling gimmick/persona than he is about the actual longevity and integrity of the straightedge hardcore scene. His actions do somewhat reflect that.

On another note, I have to say it is kind of laughable that the idea of punk and wrestling entertainment are being fused together and alarm bells don't ring in peoples heads? I think thats a clear sign to anyone who wasn't entire sure or caught up...that punk is dead.

mouseman004
05-10-2009, 11:49 AM
You wouldn't get a huge tattoo on your stomach if you weren't somewhat dedicated to it. Doesn't really matter to me though. I watch the WWE for other reasons besides Punk.

He can actually be straight edge, but still use it as a gimmick. Suggesting that he uses it as a gimmick doesn't mean he necessarily isn't straight edge.

alex147
05-12-2009, 09:30 PM
Honestly? I don't care one way or the other.

straightXed
05-12-2009, 10:36 PM
Honestly? I don't care one way or the other.

Honestly, i do actually care about how straightedge is percieved and interperated.

alex147
05-16-2009, 05:11 AM
I doubt very much that anyone takes an absolute asshole like CM Punk seriously. He's often called out as one of the guys who doesn't care about his fans and the one that is just a jackass backstage. At the end of the day my decison to be Straight Edge wasn't one I made after watching WWE for a few weeks and certainly wasn't influenced by CM Punk, it was made because I'm positive that my parents smoke and drink enough for me as well. Whether or not he uses it as a gimmick or whatever is his decision to make. How he chooses to use a legitimate lifestyle isn't what I'd advocate but and it's certainly not the way I'd want to let people know about it but if he's OK with it then it's on him.

straightXed
05-16-2009, 08:04 AM
I doubt very much that anyone takes an absolute asshole like CM Punk seriously. He's often called out as one of the guys who doesn't care about his fans and the one that is just a jackass backstage. At the end of the day my decison to be Straight Edge wasn't one I made after watching WWE for a few weeks and certainly wasn't influenced by CM Punk, it was made because I'm positive that my parents smoke and drink enough for me as well. Whether or not he uses it as a gimmick or whatever is his decision to make. How he chooses to use a legitimate lifestyle isn't what I'd advocate but and it's certainly not the way I'd want to let people know about it but if he's OK with it then it's on him.


Well thats all well and good until you are faced with the ramifications of his actions, which can and do influence people and also can give less legitimate ideas of what straightedge and hardcore are really about. Its quite clear in this thread that people do take him seriously so your doubt is already called into question. But the fact that you don't care about that is a little sad really, i can tell you that most people here do care about it and are here actively promoting what straightedge and hardcore are really about and it really is a worthwhile thing in my eyes.


I am in no way discussing the legitimacy of his lifestyle or why you chose to become straightedge but rather the fact that using it as a gimmick, which he clearly does, should be spoken out about. You say you don't advocate it and thats great but why are you ok with it. Is it because you don't see any potential problem with it? How about the idea of straightedge being removed from hardcore and adopted as something known to wrestling fans without any understanding of its true meaning and p,lace within the hardcore scene. How about the idea that i would lose definition and meaning and become a marketable fad much the same as the idea of punk did? personally treasure the hard work and efforts put in by all the hardcore kids over the years to keep straightedge as something special and unique to hardcore and i care enough to speak out on that. I am hoping this post will inspire you to see where i and others on here are comming from as its really worth looking at things this way.

easy
05-16-2009, 10:12 AM
i really don't know anything about this guy but i can't stand pro wrestling and to be honest i can't see how anyone can really enjoy it! does this guy promote sxe? i don't want to be represented by a pro wrestler but thats just me! i think the possibility of it being associated with pro wrestling is quite scary because the fans of pro wrestling do dumb shit like hold their own wrestling matches in their backyards and shit and break their necks hahahaha

Wicked Brown
05-18-2009, 10:59 AM
I doubt very much that anyone takes an absolute asshole like CM Punk seriously. He's often called out as one of the guys who doesn't care about his fans and the one that is just a jackass backstage. At the end of the day my decison to be Straight Edge wasn't one I made after watching WWE for a few weeks and certainly wasn't influenced by CM Punk, it was made because I'm positive that my parents smoke and drink enough for me as well. Whether or not he uses it as a gimmick or whatever is his decision to make. How he chooses to use a legitimate lifestyle isn't what I'd advocate but and it's certainly not the way I'd want to let people know about it but if he's OK with it then it's on him.

it's in the fuckin script!

mouseman004
05-18-2009, 03:41 PM
it's in the fuckin script!

I am pretty sure that is not true. He is generally pretty active in the hardcore scene, and he has been "the straight edge superstar" since his amatuer wrestling days before the WWE, so I think that he really does support it. I just think its stupid to use as a wrestling gimmick.

mouseman004
05-18-2009, 03:43 PM
i really don't know anything about this guy but i can't stand pro wrestling and to be honest i can't see how anyone can really enjoy it! does this guy promote sxe? i don't want to be represented by a pro wrestler but thats just me! i think the possibility of it being associated with pro wrestling is quite scary because the fans of pro wrestling do dumb shit like hold their own wrestling matches in their backyards and shit and break their necks hahahaha

Haha I enjoy professional wrestling every once and a while. I don't watch it because I think it is real and I actually care who wins or loses matches. Its just entertaining to watch every once and a while and I respect the athleticism of the wrestlers (the ones who aren't ripped on steroids).

And the guy tries to promote straight edge in wrestling. His nickname is "the straight edge superstar" and he X's up before every fight. It's pretty lame.

easy
05-19-2009, 01:39 AM
Haha I enjoy professional wrestling every once and a while. I don't watch it because I think it is real and I actually care who wins or loses matches. Its just entertaining to watch every once and a while and I respect the athleticism of the wrestlers (the ones who aren't ripped on steroids).

And the guy tries to promote straight edge in wrestling. His nickname is "the straight edge superstar" and he X's up before every fight. It's pretty lame.

is he like a serious dude or is he a big joke? is he making fun? or does he think its a cool gimmick? fuck this either way hahaha

xsecx
05-22-2009, 04:47 PM
is he like a serious dude or is he a big joke? is he making fun? or does he think its a cool gimmick? fuck this either way hahaha

everything in wrestling is a big joke.

easy
05-23-2009, 01:10 AM
everything in wrestling is a big joke.

no argument there

alex147
05-27-2009, 01:50 AM
everything in wrestling is a big joke.

A little bit, but it's like a big soap opera! It's incredibly addictive!
StraightXed, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. While I see your point, I can't see the effect you think it would have. CM Punk was probably asked to show Straight Edge to the public so it's more than likely that it is a stipulation in his contract, but I still think people who might be considering becoming Straight Edge would have the good sense to research the entire concept first.

xVinceWHCx
07-06-2009, 03:00 AM
Okay so I haven't read the all pages XD but here is my point of view about CM Punk :

So I don't think he is a liar about his way of life or OR he was realy stupid when he get tatooed 'cause get a tatoo as : STRAIGHT EDGE on his stomach or his DRUG FREE tatoo on his finger ... and I think that if he was a fake he won't be on the Nothing To Prove clip of H2O doing X with his arms with Toby at his side ! :)

Btw I think he is a good wrestler, his gimmick (now) is realy cool :) he can be the new Edge :) mwhahahaha and about wrestling we all know that it's not true but we enjoy it :p (but now I think I prefer watching TNA 'cause they are more active in what they do , I don't know if you see what I mean :s)

straightXed
07-06-2009, 09:43 AM
Okay so I haven't read the all pages XD but here is my point of view about CM Punk :

So I don't think he is a liar about his way of life or OR he was realy stupid when he get tatooed 'cause get a tatoo as : STRAIGHT EDGE on his stomach or his DRUG FREE tatoo on his finger ... and I think that if he was a fake he won't be on the Nothing To Prove clip of H2O doing X with his arms with Toby at his side ! :)

Btw I think he is a good wrestler, his gimmick (now) is realy cool :) he can be the new Edge :) mwhahahaha and about wrestling we all know that it's not true but we enjoy it :p (but now I think I prefer watching TNA 'cause they are more active in what they do , I don't know if you see what I mean :s)

I think you should read the whole thread.

xVinceWHCx
07-06-2009, 09:46 AM
XD I think too I will do that after :)

straightXed
07-06-2009, 10:01 AM
XD I think too I will do that after :)

Ok, let us know if it changes anything?

xAdamSx
09-02-2009, 02:40 PM
Well, I've liked wrestling for a long time, although I haven't seen it much in the last year or two. Punk is a very good wrestler, and his character is unique in wrestling, but what you have to remember is that there is a difference between the character CM Punk and Phil Brooks, the man who plays him. Having met him, I can say he's a sound guy from my experience, and he is a true follower of straight edge. The thing is, most things in wrestling are obviously exaggerated, so when he is portraying 'CM Punk', especially as a heel/bad guy, he plays up his straight edge lifestyle, I suppose you could say his heel character is more akin to the attitude of a 'militant edger', whereas as a face he doesn't play up on it too much.

At the end of the day, the character got him over in Ring of Honor, and after he came to the WWE, the writing team saw an opportunity to take a unique idea in wrestling and turn it into a successful gimmick. They've had blood-spitting satanic vampires and 'undead' supernatural characters become popular before, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

xsecx
09-02-2009, 03:23 PM
At the end of the day, the character got him over in Ring of Honor, and after he came to the WWE, the writing team saw an opportunity to take a unique idea in wrestling and turn it into a successful gimmick. They've had blood-spitting satanic vampires and 'undead' supernatural characters become popular before, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

yeah, but that's the actual issue, satanic vampires and the supernatural aren't real, so whatever they do doesn't reflect against a larger completely unrelated community.

mouseman004
09-04-2009, 07:03 PM
They've got him doing the preachy "im better than you for being straight edge" thing. Its really lame.

straightXed
09-04-2009, 07:12 PM
They've got him doing the preachy "im better than you for being straight edge" thing. Its really lame.

I'm better than cm punk.

mouseman004
09-05-2009, 12:52 PM
I'm better than cm punk.

I don't doubt that!

Misfit
09-08-2009, 05:48 AM
If he can influence anyone to make the choice to abstain from poison by promoting straight edge, or using it as a "gimmick," then the more power to him.

I wouldn't even care if he was talking shit about edge, atleast he would be getting it out there for kids to see.

straightXed
09-08-2009, 12:17 PM
If he can influence anyone to make the choice to abstain from poison by promoting straight edge, or using it as a "gimmick," then the more power to him.

I wouldn't even care if he was talking shit about edge, atleast he would be getting it out there for kids to see.

What about the issues raised in this thread that suggest its a bad idea, how do you address those points?

xBUDDYx
09-12-2009, 06:48 PM
I love pro wrestling.
I am a fan of CM Punk.

But I feel he is not properly portraying something I've dedicated my life too.
He is Straight Edge, and he has brought on alot of fakes because of his "superstardom".

If he came out and really talked about the true nature of being Edge then I wouldn't mind.
But him just coming out every week and saying "I'm sXe" why not go in depth about it.

Misfit
09-13-2009, 04:14 AM
What about the issues raised in this thread that suggest its a bad idea, how do you address those points?

Him using edge as a selling point is a bad idea, I agree with that, even though its probably not his choice necessarily. But in this situation, the good outweighs the bad in my opinion.

straightXed
09-13-2009, 06:19 AM
Him using edge as a selling point is a bad idea, I agree with that, even though its probably not his choice necessarily. But in this situation, the good outweighs the bad in my opinion.

Of course its his choice, how is it not his choice to be a part of it?

So you are ok with the idea of spreading a half baked conception of what straightedge is?

And ok with the negative effect on the actual straightedge hardcore scene that his promotion incurs?

How does the good outweigh the bad?

I mean he could quite easily promote drug free life without taking the term of straightedge and removing it from hardcore, so he could make good without incuring any bad if he wasn't focussed on selling straightedge as a cool gimic. He puts across an idea to people who have no interest in hardcore and does little to stress where straightedge is apparent, the importance of hardcore or anything like that, they then take the term on and you end up with people negating the importance of hardcore in the meaning and make up of what straightedge is. Further more the marketing involved enforces this idea until the term becomes empty and useless and all the years put in by all the kids who actually care about the music risk being insignificant or wasted. The drive behind the straightedge hardcore scene was generally always about creating a scene by ourselves for ourselves, not some marketable term that was used to sell wrestling. Its about kids in a music scene that identify with each other, that share a viewpoint on drugs, something they can personally be active in and fully participate in on any level. I find it incredibly sad when i hear of kids that think straightedge has nothing to do with that scene or that it isn't inherently relevent to the term and unfortunately CM Punk has ensured an influx of people with that mindset. Him being straightedge really has no bearing on things, his actions and choice to use the term in a way that leaves it open to mass misinterpetation by his fan base does have rather negative ramifications. I mean underground diy music scenes do not go hand in hand with massive entertainment corperations and theres a lot of reasons why people over the years have worked hard to keep the hardcore scene underground and diy in that respect. And i write this in hope that there are still people who value that ethic enough to realise that CM Punk is not a good thing.

xAdamSx
09-13-2009, 01:51 PM
Of course its his choice, how is it not his choice to be a part of it?


What people who are not fans of pro-wrestling may not realise is that it's not as simple as saying 'I'm using straiht edge as my gimmick'. Punk has made this gimmick work very well on the 'indy' circuit in RoH and IWA:MS, among other places, and therefore when the WWE noticed him and took him on they wanted him to continue on with the CM Punk straight-edge gimmick. Now he has made this work and he is a true follower of the lifestyle, and of course he isn't going to say 'sorry Vince, I don't want to do this gimmick'. It isn't his choice, as Misfit stated, because if Vince (McMahon, owner of the company for anyone confused) can decide whether Phil Brooks portrays a Straight Edge wrestler or a tap-dancing clown, simple. The wrestlers will go with it and try to make it work as it is international exposure on a stage they have always aspired to be on, and if they had a problem with the gimmick to the point where they refused to do it, they wold be kicked to the curb and told to go back to their indy jobs which pay far less money and bring far less exposure.

Is the whole furure over CM Punk being 'bad' for sXe to do with the fact that he doesn't tie-in hardcore with his gimmick? Because it seems a lot of people get caught up in the fact sXe was an underground movement with a pretty large majority of people who were in the hardcore punk scene. For me, I'm all for evolution and gradual development of something, and I think it shouldn't matter if somebody professing straight edge is really into the hardcore scene or not, and the movement really is starting to expand itself out of the underground state it was originally in. At least from what I've noticed anyway. I'm not saying people should claim straight edge without knowing about it or it's history and origins of course, and I agree on the point of his merchandise and people who don't claim edge buying it just because it is Punk's merchandise etc. But I don't see how Punk being in the mainstream with this gimmick is a bad thing for sXe at all, because it brings it to the attention of a lot of people who have likely never heard of it.

Misfit
09-13-2009, 04:20 PM
Of course its his choice, how is it not his choice to be a part of it?

So you are ok with the idea of spreading a half baked conception of what straightedge is?

And ok with the negative effect on the actual straightedge hardcore scene that his promotion incurs?

How does the good outweigh the bad?

I mean he could quite easily promote drug free life without taking the term of straightedge and removing it from hardcore, so he could make good without incuring any bad if he wasn't focussed on selling straightedge as a cool gimic. He puts across an idea to people who have no interest in hardcore and does little to stress where straightedge is apparent, the importance of hardcore or anything like that, they then take the term on and you end up with people negating the importance of hardcore in the meaning and make up of what straightedge is. Further more the marketing involved enforces this idea until the term becomes empty and useless and all the years put in by all the kids who actually care about the music risk being insignificant or wasted. The drive behind the straightedge hardcore scene was generally always about creating a scene by ourselves for ourselves, not some marketable term that was used to sell wrestling. Its about kids in a music scene that identify with each other, that share a viewpoint on drugs, something they can personally be active in and fully participate in on any level. I find it incredibly sad when i hear of kids that think straightedge has nothing to do with that scene or that it isn't inherently relevent to the term and unfortunately CM Punk has ensured an influx of people with that mindset. Him being straightedge really has no bearing on things, his actions and choice to use the term in a way that leaves it open to mass misinterpetation by his fan base does have rather negative ramifications. I mean underground diy music scenes do not go hand in hand with massive entertainment corperations and theres a lot of reasons why people over the years have worked hard to keep the hardcore scene underground and diy in that respect. And i write this in hope that there are still people who value that ethic enough to realise that CM Punk is not a good thing.

I understand where you are coming from. The truth is I have yet to see any effect of it at all. Also, if they get interested in straight edge because of this CM Punk character, who's to say the won't get into the hardcore scene. I'm sure they all have google, they can look it up.

straightXed
09-13-2009, 06:32 PM
I understand where you are coming from. The truth is I have yet to see any effect of it at all. Also, if they get interested in straight edge because of this CM Punk character, who's to say the won't get into the hardcore scene. I'm sure they all have google, they can look it up.

Theres already enough people online that feel hardcore is not a crucial element of straightedge. I can point you to evidence of this if you really like. And if some take the time to learn about what straightedge truly is before making a choice then thats great, thats why this site is here, so that people who have questions on the matter can ask and find out...and a lot do, i am noticing quite a lot of people coming here because they have learnt about straightedge through cm punk.

Some don't like the answers and leave it, some learn and become straightedge, some are just not interested in accepting what others say as they have grown accustomed to the idea that being a fan of cm punk is relative enough and continue to disregard hardcore. Some won't ever bother to find out much at all, based on many reactions from cm punk threads and discussions it tends to be that the hardcore scene isn't really relative to a lot of the kids that are into theatrical wrestling, i think the ammount of kids that truly get involved sincerely with the hardcore scene as a byproduct of wrestling is rather few compared to the percentage of the cm punk fanbase that are happy to mindlessly apply the term straightedge as descriptive of themselves.

XRobLupusX
09-20-2009, 01:28 PM
Saying wrestling fans are stupid is just unfair and ignorant
The internet, in fact, has killed the wrestling bussiness which is why if you ask any pro wrestler they'll say that fans are see the "biz" for what it is: showmanship
this is why i think WWE has went down to a PG rating to appeal to more of the younger demo and why ppl who hate wrestling now view fans basically like sheep, CM Punk came into WWE well known for his gimmick so everyone knew what sXe is b/c of the internet. the kids are going to be the "posers" for some time but the teens know a lot even if their are some idiots. so yea maybe they might get into HC (even that HC is part of it) and so he might be doing more good. but punk has said that he does it for himself and that he doesn't belong to a sXe community.

CM Punk is sXe and involved in the scene and if you ask me if he's accepted by H20 and other legends if you will, then he's down.

Punk has been sXe since 93~94 waaay longer than any of us so if he wants to use his "gimmick" on t.v. i think he deserves to, WWE does NOT own the straight edge gimmick so it's unfair to say he disrespects or doesn't care for the scene.
he's not trying to taking HC out of sXe on the contrary he's promoting the HC part of it too their is even an article on his wwe page about his part in the "nothing to prove" h20 video. so kids may get into HC and when they grow up they know what its about but for now the drug free thing a positive message so far. teens know about sXe because the internet has been a big part of wrestling awareness but the real idoits out there would hate him because he's a heel (badguy)

Punk is a veteran so I think ppl should give him the benefit of the doubt about his intentions. and yes sXe is getting more mainstream awareness but that doesn't mean it will turn commercialized (or separated from HC) especailly because of its image some places as a gang, there has to be a transitional period where ppl have to understand it even if in the process ther will be some posers. this just helps to give edge a better name.

as a side note, ppl can be drug free for life but won't always be involved in the scene forever. ppl get old and stop going to shows and such and so their has to be a new generation, and like it or not that generation will bring a change of opinions eventually it will run counter to the beginnings as with all movements and ideas.

straightXed
09-20-2009, 05:31 PM
Saying wrestling fans are stupid is just unfair and ignorant
The internet, in fact, has killed the wrestling bussiness which is why if you ask any pro wrestler they'll say that fans are see the "biz" for what it is: showmanship
this is why i think WWE has went down to a PG rating to appeal to more of the younger demo and why ppl who hate wrestling now view fans basically like sheep, CM Punk came into WWE well known for his gimmick so everyone knew what sXe is b/c of the internet. the kids are going to be the "posers" for some time but the teens know a lot even if their are some idiots. so yea maybe they might get into HC (even that HC is part of it) and so he might be doing more good. but punk has said that he does it for himself and that he doesn't belong to a sXe community.

not sure who this is in response too, who are you saying is ignorant?

How has the internet killed wrestling?

I first experienced the WWE/WWF in the 80's and people held negative views of those who followed it then i don't think thats anything new. not entirely sure what you are saying with the part about sxe, the internet, posers etc. But if he says he is not a part of the straightedge community then how is he straightedge?


CM Punk is sXe and involved in the scene and if you ask me if he's accepted by H20 and other legends if you will, then he's down.

So why would he say he is not a part of the community? Why does he not speak more of the community and give a proper understanding to what it truly means to be straight edge? Thats the issue i have.


Punk has been sXe since 93~94 waaay longer than any of us so if he wants to use his "gimmick" on t.v. i think he deserves to, WWE does NOT own the straight edge gimmick so it's unfair to say he disrespects or doesn't care for the scene.

How is it unfair, you don't have to own something to damage it. And it doesn't really matter how long he has been edge if he is no longer supporting that community besides there are some folks on here that have been edge longer than that...does that really make any difference? nope!



he's not trying to taking HC out of sXe on the contrary he's promoting the HC part of it too their is even an article on his wwe page about his part in the "nothing to prove" h20 video.

Then he has made quite the U-turn because his words of the past made no mention of the importance of hardcore and how thats what makes straightedge unique.



so kids may get into HC and when they grow up they know what its about but for now the drug free thing a positive message so far. teens know about sXe because the internet has been a big part of wrestling awareness but the real idoits out there would hate him because he's a heel (badguy)

well unfortunately the fact remains that a lot of kids that learn about straightedge via wrestling have little to no idea about the vital aspect of hardcore. Thats what i see when a lot of kids turn up here and other places discussing straightedge and its great when they come here because people here will point them in the right direction but there are other places where people don't appreciate the importance of hardcore and thus things get lost and you end up with kids claiming edge with no idea what hardcore even is let alone going to a show. Thats the reality of it and thats why its dangerous.


Punk is a veteran so I think ppl should give him the benefit of the doubt about his intentions.

What kind of reasoning is that?



and yes sXe is getting more mainstream awareness but that doesn't mean it will turn commercialized (or separated from HC) especailly because of its image some places as a gang, there has to be a transitional period where ppl have to understand it even if in the process ther will be some posers. this just helps to give edge a better name.

Well it being used as a gimmick to market a wrestler is commercialisation is it not? And if there are kids claiming edge based on watching wrestling and never going to a show or picking up a judge record then unfortunately that is seperation from hardcore and it does happen.


as a side note, ppl can be drug free for life but won't always be involved in the scene forever. ppl get old and stop going to shows and such and so their has to be a new generation, and like it or not that generation will bring a change of opinions eventually it will run counter to the beginnings as with all movements and ideas.

Yes you are right people do move on and the scene does change, it has changed a lot in my short time involved in it but there are still core ethics that run true in the lyrics and the actions of those involved, if it sways to far away from what it was it becomes something else...at that point its over. Straightedge has lasted well because all the people involved are the same people its aimed at and it works out. there will always be new opinions voiced, thats what has always been so good about a scene where everyone involved moulds it but there are somethings that are just inherent to its very existance that you cannot really ignore...like the platform that these ideas are put accross on...i.e. hardcore.

XRobLupusX
09-20-2009, 09:08 PM
not sure who this is in response too, who are you saying is ignorant?
Sorry I can't figure out this reply thing for the forums. This Guy

i think the possibility of it being associated with pro wrestling is quite scary because the fans of pro wrestling do dumb shit like hold their own wrestling matches in their backyards and shit and break their necks hahahaha

Well first off the internet was ruined the wrestling biz b/c people now know all about how it works and also know the private lives of wrestlers. It's easier to predict outcomes of matches and so WWE, I suspect, appeals to kids who don't care to find out so they write storylines that are too simplistic with goodguy badguy (but that's another story sorry I was getting off track there. in that last post)

Like I said there is always going to be posers. Even without Punk so why does it bother you that more ppl are discovering sXe? He says he's Straight Edge for himself although he is friends with some sXe bands. WWE like I said appeals to kids so they only want to air the parts about the drug free stuff. It sends a positive message first but who knows maybe will in the future. He's been in wwe for a while but its only been about 2 years since he's been recognized by fans that hadn't already known his awesome career in the indies. I think he thinks that ppl already know about sXe or that it hasn't occured to him. He has said in an interview in his early WWE career that straight edge was a underground subculture (at the time he started claiming it) that was heavily involved in music.
based on what he says in interview that he "sometimes hates to label different genres of music. There's good music and bad music. he says. so that's why he doesn't specify HC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCH3xRq5guk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1W08po8-6o

As for the whole he's a veteran so give him the benefit of the doubt, about that part, first off minor threat never said anything about "I (don't) smoke, don't drink, don't listen to other forms of music. at least I can f-ing think"

What about commercialism? that's eventually going to happen (and already has remember the partnership for drug free america commercials? I seen them on youtube)
It's not going to make the movement meaningless because its not like a corporation can own the term or anything lol. if the only reason you don't want anyone to commercialize about sXe is b/c you don't want posers than like i said there is always going to be ppl who call themselves sXe but don't know about it. if they find out through CM Punk they go online and look it out, its not hard. the wikipedia page I think shows the history of sXe. but personally CM Punk has motivated me to read up on it more by ordering some book on it by Ross Heifler and others. And I'm now proud to say Punk inspired me to be sXe. that's my experience.

I'm not saying sXe and HC don't go hand in hand but what happend in the furute when ppl who are true get too old to go to shows and such (but still support the bands) but some band are preaching they're take on sXe as just a choice and a lifestyle, that would raise lots of kids to turn that way as it grows (and we do want edge to stay it will only grow it does) it might be inevitable. and then the older members have tattooes and still take the same stance? doesn't that still make them edge even if they're done with scene stuff and have a family to raise? I hope that clarifies things.

straightXed
09-21-2009, 04:01 PM
Sorry I can't figure out this reply thing for the forums. This Guy

But don't some fans get involved in that backyard wrestling?



Well first off the internet was ruined the wrestling biz b/c people now know all about how it works and also know the private lives of wrestlers. It's easier to predict outcomes of matches and so WWE, I suspect, appeals to kids who don't care to find out so they write storylines that are too simplistic with goodguy badguy (but that's another story sorry I was getting off track there. in that last post)

I don't get it, what did the internet do exactly? What is known now that wasn't known before? Haven't the story lines always been pretty predictable?


Like I said there is always going to be posers. Even without Punk so why does it bother you that more ppl are discovering sXe?

Did you not read what i wrote? I already explained what my issue is with people discovering sxe in a way that doesn't give them the full picture. This is not about posing or punk this is about not being clear on things and allowing misconceptions to widespread.




He says he's Straight Edge for himself although he is friends with some sXe bands.

It could come accross as a pretty selfish attitude you know.



WWE like I said appeals to kids so they only want to air the parts about the drug free stuff. It sends a positive message first but who knows maybe will in the future.

And if i were he that would bother me, if i am asked questions on straightedge for peoples school work, zines or whatever then i will ensure that the musical aspect and the scene itself is discussed. The only reason i can see for the music not to be put forward by WWE is that it would take away from the cool factor to a fair few kids. Whats not positive abvout a scene that is run by kids involved and embraces people with positive mindsets...the drug free stuff is not straightedge until you add the scene and the music. As for where it will go in the future...well it certainly lays a path toward possible misconception, you can't argue that.



He's been in wwe for a while but its only been about 2 years since he's been recognized by fans that hadn't already known his awesome career in the indies.

Ok?


I think he thinks that ppl already know about sXe or that it hasn't occured to him. He has said in an interview in his early WWE career that straight edge was a underground subculture (at the time he started claiming it) that was heavily involved in music.
based on what he says in interview that he "sometimes hates to label different genres of music. There's good music and bad music. he says. so that's why he doesn't specify HC

Well thats all well and good but labels are important, hardcore is a genre of music related to straightedge, we use these labels to describe and define things. Nothing in those interviews really combats the potential problems him using straightedge as a wrestling gimmick could cause. Having a job that doesn't allow you to give the full picture and/or emphasise the importance of the music and the scene with straightedge does kind of question how important that scene is to him, how much value or importance does he place on what makes straightedge alive and real.



As for the whole he's a veteran so give him the benefit of the doubt, about that part, first off minor threat never said anything about "I (don't) smoke, don't drink, don't listen to other forms of music. at least I can f-ing think"

What has minor threat got to do with anything? And who said don't listen to other forms of music? How does that explain the veteren thing at all?

Minor threat are not gospel, they actually didn't even allign themselves with the straightedge movement. They coined a term in the song straight edge (so why you quote out of step is curious) a term that was addopted by haerdcore kids in the scene and who became the driving force of making that subculture exist. I am not belittling minor threat here but it could just as easily been something said by uniform choice or whatever. The kids that were involved in making the scene a place where drug free hardcore kids could enjoy themselves with there all ages srtraightedge shows which were self promoted etc. These kids are the true voice, and the bands that play are made up by these same kids. The importance of the scene and the music seems to get understated and even ignored all to quickly and even more so when kids aren't experiencing it first hand.


What about commercialism? that's eventually going to happen (and already has remember the partnership for drug free america commercials? I seen them on youtube)

And the point i am driving home is that to keep straightedge and hardcore alive and well you have to ensure the controlling force of that scene and subculture resides with the kids within it.



It's not going to make the movement meaningless because its not like a corporation can own the term or anything lol.

Yeah laugh out loud, you seem to miss the point that i wrote in the previous post. Its not about owning the term...like i said you don't need to own something to damage it. Its marketable, they are free to market it as they please and essentially milk it until it becomes as meaningless as the term punk. If you don't give a fuck about that then you need to think about it some more because attitude towards it stinks.


if the only reason you don't want anyone to commercialize about sXe is b/c you don't want posers than like i said there is always going to be ppl who call themselves sXe but don't know about it.

You are obviously having a hard time reading, this was never about poseurs, i don't even know what you are on about with posuers, i am refering to and always have been refering to misconceptions.



if they find out through CM Punk they go online and look it
out, its not hard.

But a lot of kids don't do that and a lot of kids will just continue to think the term applies to them because they see a lot of other kids involved in wrestling using the term. Its creating a pocket of people that can grow external to the scene. They may get used to the term before they even come accross hardcore and at that point they might hate hardcore but will be reluctent to stop using their new found term to describe themselves. It has been happening on the internet for quite sometime and unfortunately this CM punk explosion serves to cater to it more so.


the wikipedia page I think shows the history of sXe. but personally CM Punk has motivated me to read up on it more by ordering some book on it by Ross Heifler and others. And I'm now proud to say Punk inspired me to be sXe. that's my experience.

Its a very new dynamic, its like cm punk is a hero figure, hardcore never really had those so much, everyone was equal, the bands that play were no more important than the kids that show up or made the show, all voices were equal. Suggesting reading a wikipeadia page is bullshit, you should suggest going to a show and getting involved in the scene. Be the history and be active in shaping it. Its great that you are straightedge and its great that you are all about hardcore and the hardcore scene but you seem somewhat blinkered to the possible flipside of the coin and its becoming clear that is because you have placed a particular value on cm punk and his influence.


I'm not saying sXe and HC don't go hand in hand

Good because if you did you would be the wrongest you have ever been.


but what happend in the furute when ppl who are true get too old to go to shows and such (but still support the bands)

I don't go to many shows nowadays, i am older...i am under no delusions that for me straightedge may become irrelevent to me one day. But as it stands i go to shows once in a while i still buy records and am still actively supporting the scene in that way. I fail to see what this has to do with anything though?



but some band are preaching they're take on sXe as just a choice and a lifestyle, that would raise lots of kids to turn that way as it grows (and we do want edge to stay it will only grow it does) it might be inevitable.

This is impossible to understand, proof read please!!


and then the older members have tattooes and still take the same stance? doesn't that still make them edge even if they're done with scene stuff and have a family to raise? I hope that clarifies things.

It clarifys nothing, what does having a tattoo have to do with it? You are way out there on a tangent. If they are done with it then they are done with it, what stance would they be taking if they were done with hardcore? It would be a personal one and not one of straightedge. If they have grown apart from the scene and were no longer involved or had any interest then they would just be a typical drug free dude who was once straightedge. You can't take away what they were but that remains the past and you have to look at what they are now. Little of this has any relevence to the actual point i have here though so i am unsure what you are actually getting at.

XRobLupusX
09-21-2009, 09:06 PM
What has minor threat got to do with anything? And who said don't listen to other forms of music? How does that explain the veteren thing at all?

Minor threat are not gospel, they actually didn't even allign themselves with the straightedge movement. They coined a term in the song straight edge (so why you quote out of step is curious) a term that was addopted by haerdcore kids in the scene and who became the driving force of making that subculture exist. I am not belittling minor threat here but it could just as easily been something said by uniform choice or whatever. The kids that were involved in making the scene a place where drug free hardcore kids could enjoy themselves with there all ages srtraightedge shows which were self promoted etc. These kids are the true voice, and the bands that play are made up by these same kids. The importance of the scene and the music seems to get understated and even ignored all to quickly and even more so when kids aren't experiencing it first hand.

And the point i am driving home is that to keep straightedge and hardcore alive and well you have to ensure the controlling force of that scene and subculture resides with the kids within it.

You are obviously having a hard time reading, this was never about poseurs, i don't even know what you are on about with posuers, i am refering to and always have been refering to misconceptions.

If you're not involved in the HC scene you're not straight edge, I get that but come on for life? the way to be involved firsthand is by going to shows that's what gives you the right to voice you opinion or by starting a band. I don't know about you but I can't be going to shows all my life either. Once you get so old you don't really have a voice anymore even if you're active in forums like these and if new kids get into the scene and they have new ideas: let's say they put less emphasis on the whole scene aspect and stress more about just the drug free aspect, even though they go to shows which I am seeing very often. and you try to correct them but you can't because who's going to listen to an old man who's too old for shows? Do you mean to say when you get that old so that you can't protect the emphasis on the scene and bands etc., you aren't straight edge anymore but someone who is just now only drug free. weren't you the one who said that sXe has changed in the time you joined? but the underlying concepts stay the same.

Minor threat didn't want to identify with sXe because of the gang association and fanaticism in the early 90s, they were sXe before that and set the very first core values of sXe which originally was that Ian didn't drink or smoke. Kids followed that and made it a movement even though he didn't intend it to be movement, he still promoted the values. so he has been active in the scene enough to take those opinions seriously. Now other ppl entering the sXe scene had there say but I think Ian's message was simple enough. Like you said the reflections of what sXe should be representational of those involved. CM PUNK is involved and obviously in the beggining you didn't have to be involved in the scene for life. the issue was never addressed.
I'm not saying that you think this but I'm curious how you or anyone else would address this issue by the line reasoning mentioned in that first paragraph. eventually in the long run the ppl who have impacted edge will die and the next generation will have a set of different opinions. I think ppl are beggining to demphasize the consumerist part of buying albums and stuff or (even going to shows) which is sad but there may not much the veteran edgers can do if speecking on the long run. correct me if i'm wrong, honestly I'm not being sarcastic. I don't think you have to voice your opinion for life because the only way you can is by going to shows and being apart of other edgers and if you do who would listen to an old clique. even if you could tell newer generations the truth what can you do after so long. It's not destoying edge its changing it. Like you said everyone has an equal voice and to dismiss other's opinions as destructive to sXe is egocentric. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just stating my opinions as edge myself.

maybe you're right CM PUNK involentarily sending a simplistic view on sXe and as a result kids will call themselves straight edge without caring for HC. I got me there. You don't have to bite my head off. I'm trying to have detached discourse here without the emotional tension. oh by the way CM Punk isn't my only hero, and I respect and try to consider all the influential bands and people who shaped edge. Oh and CM Punk isn't the only force behind this change in edge. plz don't go there.

btw however you respond I'm happy to have a conversation w/ someone like you who really cares enough to correct newbies like me. Really, I'm trying my hardest to understand the finer details of sXe. You're right wikipedia can't give me an good enough take on straight edge neither have I got anything good enough on the internet either. Straightedge.com only gave a short list of sxe ideals but I this forum did.

xsecx
09-22-2009, 10:34 AM
If you're not involved in the HC scene you're not straight edge, I get that but come on for life? the way to be involved firsthand is by going to shows that's what gives you the right to voice you opinion or by starting a band. I don't know about you but I can't be going to shows all my life either. Once you get so old you don't really have a voice anymore even if you're active in forums like these and if new kids get into the scene and they have new ideas: let's say they put less emphasis on the whole scene aspect and stress more about just the drug free aspect, even though they go to shows which I am seeing very often. and you try to correct them but you can't because who's going to listen to an old man who's too old for shows? Do you mean to say when you get that old so that you can't protect the emphasis on the scene and bands etc., you aren't straight edge anymore but someone who is just now only drug free. weren't you the one who said that sXe has changed in the time you joined? but the underlying concepts stay the same.

Minor threat didn't want to identify with sXe because of the gang association and fanaticism in the early 90s, they were sXe before that and set the very first core values of sXe which originally was that Ian didn't drink or smoke. Kids followed that and made it a movement even though he didn't intend it to be movement, he still promoted the values. so he has been active in the scene enough to take those opinions seriously. Now other ppl entering the sXe scene had there say but I think Ian's message was simple enough. Like you said the reflections of what sXe should be representational of those involved. CM PUNK is involved and obviously in the beggining you didn't have to be involved in the scene for life. the issue was never addressed.
I'm not saying that you think this but I'm curious how you or anyone else would address this issue by the line reasoning mentioned in that first paragraph. eventually in the long run the ppl who have impacted edge will die and the next generation will have a set of different opinions. I think ppl are beggining to demphasize the consumerist part of buying albums and stuff or (even going to shows) which is sad but there may not much the veteran edgers can do if speecking on the long run. correct me if i'm wrong, honestly I'm not being sarcastic. I don't think you have to voice your opinion for life because the only way you can is by going to shows and being apart of other edgers and if you do who would listen to an old clique. even if you could tell newer generations the truth what can you do after so long. It's not destoying edge its changing it. Like you said everyone has an equal voice and to dismiss other's opinions as destructive to sXe is egocentric. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just stating my opinions as edge myself.

maybe you're right CM PUNK involentarily sending a simplistic view on sXe and as a result kids will call themselves straight edge without caring for HC. I got me there. You don't have to bite my head off. I'm trying to have detached discourse here without the emotional tension. oh by the way CM Punk isn't my only hero, and I respect and try to consider all the influential bands and people who shaped edge. Oh and CM Punk isn't the only force behind this change in edge. plz don't go there.

btw however you respond I'm happy to have a conversation w/ someone like you who really cares enough to correct newbies like me. Really, I'm trying my hardest to understand the finer details of sXe. You're right wikipedia can't give me an good enough take on straight edge neither have I got anything good enough on the internet either. Straightedge.com only gave a short list of sxe ideals but I this forum did.

based on your introduction thread, you stated that this is all pretty new to you. Do you really think you know enough about straight edge and it's history to start talking about it to people who have been involved in it for years and years? There are a lot of statements you've made that come off as naive and some that are simply incorrect. I think you need to go to some shows, talk to some people and try to get a real understanding why some people, a lot of people in straight edge, aren't all that happy about CM Punk and how he portrays straight edge as a wrestling gimmick.

straightXed
09-22-2009, 11:44 AM
If you're not involved in the HC scene you're not straight edge, I get that but come on for life?

If you no longer have an interest in hardcore and the scene how are you involved? If you aren't involved and don't have an interest in it then what makes you straightedge in the now? Are you even reading what i wrote?


the way to be involved firsthand is by going to shows that's what gives you the right to voice you opinion or by starting a band. I don't know about you but I can't be going to shows all my life either. Once you get so old you don't really have a voice anymore even if you're active in forums like these and if new kids get into the scene and they have new ideas: let's say they put less emphasis on the whole scene aspect and stress more about just the drug free aspect, even though they go to shows which I am seeing very often. and you try to correct them but you can't because who's going to listen to an old man who's too old for shows?

This is complete ignorance, you really show yourself up here. These kids that may lessen the association of hardcore are working away from straightedge, straightedge is more than drug free purely because of the music based subculture...once you remove that there is nothing unique and to describe it as straightedge is not only erronous but also pointless as it is simply then nothing but being drug free. You have a messed up idea of things and its not one that rings true of how the scene actually is right now. And for the record, its people who are active in the scene young and old alike that are correcting those that lessen the importance of the hardcore element.


Do you mean to say when you get that old so that you can't protect the emphasis on the scene and bands etc., you aren't straight edge anymore but someone who is just now only drug free. weren't you the one who said that sXe has changed in the time you joined? but the underlying concepts stay the same.

When did i suggest that...you seem to be replying to things i simply havent said. I mean to say that when hardcore and the scene is no longer of any interest to you that straightedge is also no longer of interest because you cannot remove harsdcore and still have straightedge...that is one of the things that make it what it is. And yes i was the one that said the straightedge scene has changed in my time, what of it?




Minor threat didn't want to identify with sXe because of the gang association and fanaticism in the early 90s, they were sXe before that and set the very first core values of sXe which originally was that Ian didn't drink or smoke.

Wrong. I think its time to research that a little more.



Kids followed that and made it a movement even though he didn't intend it to be movement, he still promoted the values. so he has been active in the scene enough to take those opinions seriously.

You have a messed up version of how things went down and an odd perception of active in the scene.



Now other ppl entering the sXe scene had there say but I think Ian's message was simple enough.

See you sound like what mackaye said was somehow gospel, way too much emphasis on one guy whos involvement is way overstated


Like you said the reflections of what sXe should be representational of those involved. CM PUNK is involved and obviously in the beggining you didn't have to be involved in the scene for life. the issue was never addressed.

Its simple logic...if you aren't involved with it now you aren't involved with it now...no one is saying about it being for life, i am simply saying quite clearly that if you choose to take a path away from hardcore and leave that behind then that is exactly what you do and thus at that point you are no longer involved.




I'm not saying that you think this but I'm curious how you or anyone else would address this issue by the line reasoning mentioned in that first paragraph.


What?


eventually in the long run the ppl who have impacted edge will die and the next generation will have a set of different opinions.

If i have a car and i take two wheels off, swap out the steering for handlebars, rebuild the engine and put it in between two wheels, remove the chassis, make a bike like frame and add a saddle until it represents a motor bike. At that point do i still have a car or has it now become something new...a bike? If things change enough they become something different and new...if the new opinions remove hardcore that is enough for it to no longer be straightedge.


I think ppl are beggining to demphasize the consumerist part of buying albums and stuff or (even going to shows) which is sad but there may not much the veteran edgers can do if speecking on the long run.

What?






correct me if i'm wrong, honestly I'm not being sarcastic.

I will try but you don't make things very clear!


I don't think you have to voice your opinion for life because the only way you can is by going to shows and being apart of other edgers and if you do who would listen to an old clique.

What are you even discussing here? Who is talking about expressing their opinion for life? And why wouldn't someone listen to someone involved in the scene for a long time, a lot of bands are made up by older guys, a lot of older guys are still in the scene and share the same views as the younger kids...you just don't get it.



even if you could tell newer generations the truth what can you do after so long. It's not destoying edge its changing it. Like you said everyone has an equal voice and to dismiss other's opinions as destructive to sXe is egocentric. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just stating my opinions as edge myself.

Your opinions are ignorant and ignore the issue though. This isn't about old and young at all but those that understand straightedge and those that see fit to remove a vital and crucial element...the music. I never said everyone one had an equal voice, they don't, everyone involved in the scene has an equal voice those that don't care about the scene and all that it involves can fuck off. And newer generatiopns have been comming to straightedge for years and all that time of like 30 years it has remained in hardcore and has been active in that music scene and has had new kids and old kids learning from each other and sharing ideas to create a scene that remains self sufficiant in so many ways. It has continually been a topic of songs over the years to keep this scene alive. Its something those involved are pasionate about and new kids who get involved in shows feel exactly the same way.


maybe you're right CM PUNK involentarily sending a simplistic view on sXe and as a result kids will call themselves straight edge without caring for HC.

I think i was wrong to use the word inadvertantly, as he does it by choice, he chooses to let things be that way.


I got me there. You don't have to bite my head off.

I didn't bite your head off in the slightest, you may be feeling sensitive about the honesty of the response is all.



I'm trying to have detached discourse here without the emotional tension.

To be honest your discourse seems to be largely detached from the things i am actually saying.



oh by the way CM Punk isn't my only hero, and I respect and try to consider all the influential bands and people who shaped edge. Oh and CM Punk isn't the only force behind this change in edge. plz don't go there.

When did i "go there"? Why do you suspect i am not aware of other negative impacts on the straightedge scene? I wasn't really making a point of him being your only hero but rather discussing the idea of having heroes at all. Read it again, you might understand what i was getting at better.


btw however you respond I'm happy to have a conversation w/ someone like you who really cares enough to correct newbies like me. Really, I'm trying my hardest to understand the finer details of sXe. You're right wikipedia can't give me an good enough take on straight edge neither have I got anything good enough on the internet either. Straightedge.com only gave a short list of sxe ideals but I this forum did.

And thats precisely the point...you know more about CM Punk than a lot of people but still are demonstrating a really sketchy understanding of straightedge, the only way you understand straightedge is by being involved with the scene, you learn so much that way and it shows you its true colours, all the stuff that simply doesn't translate on websites or by wrestling etc. theres a reason kids young and old who are involved in it are so passionate about things like cm punk and the more you get involved the more you will see how the two perceptions are worlds apart. One is a vibrant and alive world with values and goals passion and the other is just lacking anything of significant substance and the later is what i am speaking out against.

xBigAlx
10-01-2009, 02:09 AM
I understand where you are coming from. The truth is I have yet to see any effect of it at all. Also, if they get interested in straight edge because of this CM Punk character, who's to say the won't get into the hardcore scene. I'm sure they all have google, they can look it up.

I'm on the WWE forums now, and there are more then a few people who only claim edge because of CM Punk. Now, not saying that's a bad thing, but with his current gimmick, the whole "I'm straight edge and therefore I'm better then you" everyone thinks that that is the way edge works.. I had a discussion with 2 blokes that didn't know mostly anything about edge 'cept the not drinking and drug free bit now claim edge cos of him..

straightXed
01-07-2010, 09:19 AM
I bet those kids weren't Edge when CM Punk kicked Jeff Hardys's ass... But seriously, of course there's gonna be some posers, but there's gonna be real sXe:s as well. I got to know sXe because of CM Punk and then found Minor Threat and the story goes on.

I don't think the term posers really addresses the issue...i think the words misdirecting and unrelated are words that i would use.

haighy15
01-14-2010, 03:23 AM
I know some of the people in here dont like CM Punk, but I myself am a wrestling fan. If it wasn't because of him, I would have probably have never known about the straightedge movement.

I know it appears to be a gimmick, but he is actually staightedge in real life. When he is a face (good guy) he is just his normal self, but as a heel (bad guy) he pushes the fact he is better than everyone because he is straightedge.

He's not a bad guy or doing bad things for the movement, in my eyes he is promoting it :)

xvunderx
01-14-2010, 07:49 AM
I know some of the people in here dont like CM Punk, but I myself am a wrestling fan. If it wasn't because of him, I would have probably have never known about the straightedge movement.

I know it appears to be a gimmick, but he is actually staightedge in real life. When he is a face (good guy) he is just his normal self, but as a heel (bad guy) he pushes the fact he is better than everyone because he is straightedge.

He's not a bad guy or doing bad things for the movement, in my eyes he is promoting it :)

Except he only promotes a small part of it, the anti drug stance, and forgets to mention the music and subculture that actually make straight edge what it is. Something that has leas to a lot of people calling themselves edge who aren't and diluting the scene and the meaning of straight edge.

straightXed
01-14-2010, 08:17 AM
I know some of the people in here dont like CM Punk, but I myself am a wrestling fan. If it wasn't because of him, I would have probably have never known about the straightedge movement.

I know it appears to be a gimmick, but he is actually staightedge in real life. When he is a face (good guy) he is just his normal self, but as a heel (bad guy) he pushes the fact he is better than everyone because he is straightedge.

He's not a bad guy or doing bad things for the movement, in my eyes he is promoting it :)

Yeah, the thing is just because he is straightedge in real life doesn't make any difference to it being a gimmick or not. If anyone of us here were to do the same thing it would be using straightedge as a gimmick. But as has already been mentioned he isn't exactly promoting straightedge...he is taking elements of straightedge to promote himself...its just a bit weak and can give a rather undesired effect.

Pilaf
01-25-2010, 09:17 PM
Except he only promotes a small part of it, the anti drug stance, and forgets to mention the music and subculture that actually make straight edge what it is. Something that has leas to a lot of people calling themselves edge who aren't and diluting the scene and the meaning of straight edge.

He actually did name drop a few Edge bands a couple weeks ago, specifically he mentioned Minor Threat, Youth of Today and Have Heart. While that's far from a comprehensive list we have to remember he mentioned three bands most wrestling fans have never heard of on the air in front of thousands of people, and he didn't HAVE to do that. I got the impression it was his idea to show some love and respect to hardcore during that promo, and that he meant it.

xsecx
01-25-2010, 09:25 PM
He actually did name drop a few Edge bands a couple weeks ago, specifically he mentioned Minor Threat, Youth of Today and Have Heart. While that's far from a comprehensive list we have to remember he mentioned three bands most wrestling fans have never heard of on the air in front of thousands of people, and he didn't HAVE to do that. I got the impression it was his idea to show some love and respect to hardcore during that promo, and that he meant it.

if he wanted to show love and respect to straight edge and hardcore, he'd use another gimmick.

MrMcKeigue
01-26-2010, 12:26 AM
if he wanted to show love and respect to straight edge and hardcore, he'd use another gimmick.

I agree. If the WWE tells him to, he becomes the "heel" wrestler and starts waving around the "I'm sXe I'm better" flag. If he really wanted to show serious positivity toward sXe, he wouldn't let that wouldn't happen. It just makes an ass image out of sXers. And if you're one of those people who doesn't routinely watch wrestling but may stay on it a few minutes when channel-flipping, that's not a good representation to stick with you.

xAdamSx
01-30-2010, 04:01 PM
To be fair to the guy, if he actually refused to do a gimmick, then he'd likely either get jobbed out by Vince McMahon or fired. The wrestling business is ruthless, and wrestlers who get there know that it's a rare opportunity and that you go with what you're told to do. I once spoke to a pro wrestler who was having a WWE tryout, and he said that he'd dress in women's clothes and portray a transvestite if that was the gimmick given to him because it's such a good job opportunity to be in the WWE.

In short, Punk made his name using his sXe lifestyle as a gimmick on the indies and obviously it's worked for him after advancing it somewhat in the WWE. Changing the gimmick that has worked for him since he got into the business would be foolish.

xsecx
01-30-2010, 04:36 PM
To be fair to the guy, if he actually refused to do a gimmick, then he'd likely either get jobbed out by Vince McMahon or fired. The wrestling business is ruthless, and wrestlers who get there know that it's a rare opportunity and that you go with what you're told to do. I once spoke to a pro wrestler who was having a WWE tryout, and he said that he'd dress in women's clothes and portray a transvestite if that was the gimmick given to him because it's such a good job opportunity to be in the WWE.

In short, Punk made his name using his sXe lifestyle as a gimmick on the indies and obviously it's worked for him after advancing it somewhat in the WWE. Changing the gimmick that has worked for him since he got into the business would be foolish.

so wrestlers have never changed gimmicks?

straightXed
01-30-2010, 05:47 PM
To be fair to the guy, if he actually refused to do a gimmick, then he'd likely either get jobbed out by Vince McMahon or fired. The wrestling business is ruthless, and wrestlers who get there know that it's a rare opportunity and that you go with what you're told to do. I once spoke to a pro wrestler who was having a WWE tryout, and he said that he'd dress in women's clothes and portray a transvestite if that was the gimmick given to him because it's such a good job opportunity to be in the WWE.

In short, Punk made his name using his sXe lifestyle as a gimmick on the indies and obviously it's worked for him after advancing it somewhat in the WWE. Changing the gimmick that has worked for him since he got into the business would be foolish.

Well theres integrity for you!!!

Pilaf
02-03-2010, 07:49 PM
so wrestlers have never changed gimmicks?

A lot of them change gimmicks all the time - usually when they are stuck in a dead end gimmick that's not advancing their career. Phil Brooks is straight edge in real life and has naturally always used it as his gimmick, ever since he first started in the pro wrestling business. It's worked for him so far. He's even been World Champion. He's drawing lots of ratings and "heat" (he gets a lot of boos as a heel or villain persona), and for the WWE that means dollar signs. So they probably won't be having him change his gimmick anytime soon, for better or worse. It's just going over too well. People love to hate CM Punk right about now.

That's to say nothing of how people might come to view straight edge or people who adhere to the doctrine but aren't militant or cultlike, like the character Phil Brooks is portraying, but the WWE hasn't exactly had a good track record of accommodating groups who complain, especially fringe groups. His current gimmick about forming a stable or a following is just a re hashed version of what the Undertaker did in the late 90's with his Ministry of Darkness, which was a Satanic cult of sorts. The WWE got a lot of backlash both from Christians and neo pagans for those portrayals back in the day, but the gimmick was kept for over a year.

xsecx
02-03-2010, 08:34 PM
A lot of them change gimmicks all the time - usually when they are stuck in a dead end gimmick that's not advancing their career. Phil Brooks is straight edge in real life and has naturally always used it as his gimmick, ever since he first started in the pro wrestling business. It's worked for him so far. He's even been World Champion. He's drawing lots of ratings and "heat" (he gets a lot of boos as a heel or villain persona), and for the WWE that means dollar signs. So they probably won't be having him change his gimmick anytime soon, for better or worse. It's just going over too well. People love to hate CM Punk right about now.

That's to say nothing of how people might come to view straight edge or people who adhere to the doctrine but aren't militant or cultlike, like the character Phil Brooks is portraying, but the WWE hasn't exactly had a good track record of accommodating groups who complain, especially fringe groups. His current gimmick about forming a stable or a following is just a re hashed version of what the Undertaker did in the late 90's with his Ministry of Darkness, which was a Satanic cult of sorts. The WWE got a lot of backlash both from Christians and neo pagans for those portrayals back in the day, but the gimmick was kept for over a year.

So what does any of this have to do with the fact that the guy is just using it for money and not doing any good for anyone who actually is straight edge? best thing that dude could do at this point is to drink a beer on tv.

xearvasex
03-05-2011, 09:43 AM
I was just wondering if anyone knew about CM Punk, the wrestler who is sxe? He has been wrestling on the independent circuits for a while and just debuted with ECW on Sci-Fi Network. (Tuesdays at 10 PM) A wrestler being edge sounds crazy with all the drugs and steroids, but Punk apparently is legit.
http://www.rohphotos.com/4images/data/media/41/IMG_6773.JPG

CM Punk is awsome. He is one of my favorited wrestlers(Not due to him only being SE). Him and his in ring and mic skills are some for the best I seen in a long time. And I loved the heel Punk he is god on the mic.

CM Punk is the one that got me in to Straight Edge. I have never want it drink or do drugs.
I am a big wrestling fan and CM Punk is the first ever straight edge world world champion. And I find out me and the straight edge lifestyle are the same.

xearvasex
03-05-2011, 09:49 AM
which is fine, but it still comes down to a gimmick and a way to market himself, especially with lines like "i'm straight edge so that means I'm better than you", and that shit is wack.

Due to CM Punk I find you what Straight Edge was and is about. It is the best way for him to be heel is to be himself to a point and just be a ass with it.

linsee
03-15-2011, 10:12 AM
Okay, so I'll totally admit I've been watching wrestling for the past 6 months or so. That being said, I think CM Punk is a good wrestler, and I'm entertained by him.
As far as the straight edge jesus stuff, I'm not a fan of that. I haven't seen any of that until I youtube'd it. Clearly wrestling takes aspects of people and exaggerates them, hence what they did with being straight edge for him. I'm glad that's died down, because I don't think portraying straight edge in that way is cool, let alone a good thing.
He's an entertainer, bottom line. Knowing he's also straight edge should just be a little extra fact, and not exploited like it has been.