sXe Philosophy

[XAdamSkaX]

I think that it's important to remember the roots. (or learn them).
There was no real rules, no real limits to be a sXe.
Straight Edge was and is about thinking about yourself and others. And the future.
It was about not drinking, not taking drugs and no one night stands.

But now, the sXe movement is hated and not respected, some places, because of the "intolerant wannabes". The violent ones, that think you need to hear hardcore to be straight edge, and the people that ain't like you, is bad. That was what the movement fighted originally. Straight Edge is not only about hardcore music. It's about fighting the bad habbits and living the life.
Against people, killing themselves. And all religions was allright and respected.
sXe's ain't no hateful maniacs that think all people should be the same, Straight Edge is also about to think for yourself.

And i also think that people that ain't straight edgers should be respected, as well as straight edgers should, not hated, in my opinion, they are the only masters for their own life.

[xsecx]

I think that it's important to remember the roots. (or learn them).
There was no real rules, no real limits to be a sXe.
Straight Edge was and is about thinking about yourself and others. And the future.
It was about not drinking, not taking drugs and no one night stands.

But now, the sXe movement is hated and not respected, some places, because of the "intolerant wannabes". The violent ones, that think you need to hear hardcore to be straight edge, and the people that ain't like you, is bad. That was what the movement fighted originally. Straight Edge is not only about hardcore music. It's about fighting the bad habbits and living the life.
Against people, killing themselves. And all religions was allright and respected.
sXe's ain't no hateful maniacs that think all people should be the same, Straight Edge is also about to think for yourself.

And i also think that people that ain't straight edgers should be respected, as well as straight edgers should, not hated, in my opinion, they are the only masters for their own life.

what are you basing this belief of what straight edge is and what it's about on?

[straightXed]

I think that it's important to remember the roots. (or learn them).
There was no real rules, no real limits to be a sXe.
Straight Edge was and is about thinking about yourself and others. And the future.
It was about not drinking, not taking drugs and no one night stands.

No real limits except the limits you mentioned? Doesn't really make sense.


But now, the sXe movement is hated and not respected, some places, because of the "intolerant wannabes". The violent ones, that think you need to hear hardcore to be straight edge,

Umm, how are you straightedge if you aren't involved in the straightedge movement which is based in hardcore? And what violence are you talking about? it would be nice to see what you are basing this on.



and the people that ain't like you, is bad. That was what the movement fighted originally. Straight Edge is not only about hardcore music. It's about fighting the bad habbits and living the life.

"Not only about hardcore music"...so you agree it is about hardcore music among other things, such as personal stance against drug use.


Against people, killing themselves.

evidence of this? What is supporting that statement?



And all religions was allright and respected.

Umm, evidence tends to disagree but i'd like to see what you are basing this on too?


sXe's ain't no hateful maniacs that think all people should be the same, Straight Edge is also about to think for yourself.

Right, you have to think for yourself in all aspects of life. Just thinking for yourself doesn't make you straightedge, if when you do think foryourself your thoughts coincide with the concepts of straightedge then it means you are straightedge but you can't just adopt the term to cover all your beliefs on religion and suicide. Those are external thoughts and can often be contradictive to what straight edge is about


And i also think that people that ain't straight edgers should be respected, as well as straight edgers should, not hated, in my opinion, they are the only masters for their own life.

I respect non straightedge people that deserve respect. I respect those who deserve it and theres plenty of straightedge people that i don't respect and plenty of non straightedge people i do.

[XAdamSkaX]

A little time ago, i heard a man talking about straight edge, and their beliefs. I thought "Cool, that's how i have bin for a long time!", and then i would check it more out. All these things i wrote was things that i red in Wikipedia and BBC. And i thought that those two were pretty serious sites?
I don't wan't to provocate anyone in here, that's not my target.
But you may just rate my if i'm wrong.

And sorry, i didn't mean "Against people, killing themselves", but i'm not so good at english. Sorry.
And i don't think that you can make a way of living so narrow, that you only may listen to hardcore. That can't be right.
I see my own thoughts as the straight edge thoughts, but i don't listen to hardcore music. That is like, making a way of living, were you may only eat burritos. Right?
I know and respect the punk and hardcore scene, but i'm not into that music, i don't listen to it.

[xsecx]

A little time ago, i heard a man talking about straight edge, and their beliefs. I thought "Cool, that's how i have bin for a long time!", and then i would check it more out. All these things i wrote was things that i red in Wikipedia and BBC. And i thought that those two were pretty serious sites?
I don't wan't to provocate anyone in here, that's not my target.
But you may just rate my if i'm wrong.

And sorry, i didn't mean "Against people, killing themselves", but i'm not so good at english. Sorry.
And i don't think that you can make a way of living so narrow, that you only may listen to hardcore. That can't be right.
I see my own thoughts as the straight edge thoughts, but i don't listen to hardcore music. That is like, making a way of living, were you may only eat burritos. Right?
I know and respect the punk and hardcore scene, but i'm not into that music, i don't listen to it.

yeah but what makes straight edge what it is is a way of living. You're trying to describe it just as a set of beliefs but it isn't. It's a complete subculture and lifestyle. Why can't that be right, when that's exactly what it is? The relationship between the beliefs and the music is what makes it a subculture and not just a philosophy. The philosophy part of it isn't unique at all, but the lifestyle is. If you look at the BBC and the wikipedia descriptions they include stuff about bands, the reason they do that is because it's what it is.

[straightXed]

A little time ago, i heard a man talking about straight edge, and their beliefs. I thought "Cool, that's how i have bin for a long time!", and then i would check it more out. All these things i wrote was things that i red in Wikipedia and BBC. And i thought that those two were pretty serious sites?
I don't wan't to provocate anyone in here, that's not my target.
But you may just rate my if i'm wrong.

Straightedge isn't just being drug free, drug free is just being drug free. When you look at hardcore music and the scene itself then you get a much better understanding of what straightedge is. All the symbolism of straightedge links directly with hardcore, hardcore is the vehicle which transports the communication of straightedge, hardcore is the place you will find other straightedge people. Straightedge simply cannot be removed from hardcore without negating a large part of what it is, when you do seperate it you end up with something else - being drug free with no link to hardcore so you have to ask why you would want to adopt a label that refers to a subculture of the hardcore scene?


And sorry, i didn't mean "Against people, killing themselves", but i'm not so good at english. Sorry.
And i don't think that you can make a way of living so narrow, that you only may listen to hardcore. That can't be right.

whats narrow about only using labels that accurately describe you? What i find narrow is people needing to adopt labels that don't accurately describe them, i mean if you have no interest in hardcore why would you need to use hardcore terminology to describe yourself? whats wrong with looking at your beliefs and labelling yourself drug free instead of labelling yourself with direct reference to hardcore? And supporting straightedge hardcore bands and shows doesn't mean you can't listen to anything else but hardcore, iot just means other musical tastes don't have any relevence to straightedge. Being straightedge means being actively involved in hardcore to some extent even if its just buying records, but you should want to support the shows and experience the sing alongs to songs that carry the message of the people involved in this scene, the vehicle of hardcore has always been what made straightedge what it is and something more than being just drug free.




I see my own thoughts as the straight edge thoughts, but i don't listen to hardcore music. That is like, making a way of living, were you may only eat burritos. Right?
I know and respect the punk and hardcore scene, but i'm not into that music, i don't listen to it.

But your burritos analogy is also true of other aspects of straight edge, you may only drink non alcoholic drinks for instance. Why is one definite rule ok but others aren't?

And like i said before you can listen to other music also it just has no relevence to straightedge, hardcore has a great deal of relevence to straightedge and you can't really say your thoughts are straight edge if they remove themselves from hardcore. What your thoughts are is drug free as they don't really have any connection to hardcore and don't need to be defined as anything other than drug free, the term straightedge relates to something more than just drug free. I hope you can read this as i did my best to follow what you were trying to write.

[xCAMIx]

A little time ago, i heard a man talking about straight edge, and their beliefs. I thought "Cool, that's how i have bin for a long time!", and then i would check it more out. All these things i wrote was things that i red in Wikipedia and BBC. And i thought that those two were pretty serious sites?
I don't wan't to provocate anyone in here, that's not my target.
But you may just rate my if i'm wrong.

And sorry, i didn't mean "Against people, killing themselves", but i'm not so good at english. Sorry.
And i don't think that you can make a way of living so narrow, that you only may listen to hardcore. That can't be right.
I see my own thoughts as the straight edge thoughts, but i don't listen to hardcore music. That is like, making a way of living, were you may only eat burritos. Right?
I know and respect the punk and hardcore scene, but i'm not into that music, i don't listen to it.

Um, I see where you are coming from. But one note: We here on the site aren't all Southern, so please speak upright grammar.

[SES-SXE]

i believe that straight-edge is for everyone. why should we deny someone with the same lifestyle just because they dont listen to hardcore, or hang out with hardcore kids? its just labeling ourselves, and that can be a bad thing. we want to SPREAD the straight-edge lifestyle, not isolate it to a specific group. we need to share the love guys, share the straight-edge society!

[xsecx]

i believe that straight-edge is for everyone. why should we deny someone with the same lifestyle just because they dont listen to hardcore, or hang out with hardcore kids? its just labeling ourselves, and that can be a bad thing. we want to SPREAD the straight-edge lifestyle, not isolate it to a specific group. we need to share the love guys, share the straight-edge society!

if they don't listen to hardcore then they're not living the same lifestyle. that's kind of the point.

[xvunderx]

i believe that straight-edge is for everyone. why should we deny someone with the same lifestyle just because they dont listen to hardcore, or hang out with hardcore kids? its just labeling ourselves, and that can be a bad thing. we want to SPREAD the straight-edge lifestyle, not isolate it to a specific group. we need to share the love guys, share the straight-edge society!

See you're talking about the Drug free Lifestyle, no one here is discouraging of that, of saying that isn't worth spreading, just that sXe isn't another word for drugfree, it's a word for hardcore kids against drugs.

[goodcleanbritt]

See you're talking about the Drug free Lifestyle, no one here is discouraging of that, of saying that isn't worth spreading, just that sXe isn't another word for drugfree, it's a word for hardcore kids against drugs.

exactly. straight edge was born out of hardcore, and it should remain directly linked to hardcore.

if you're not into hardcore, it's great that you're drugfree but just leave it at that; you're drugfree. the term straight edge should be exclusive to those within the hardcore scene, or those who listen to hardcore.

you can be drug free and not straight edge.
and it's great that you're drug free. but i don't believe that indie kids who call themselves edge have the same view on what is edge as i do, being an active member of the hardcore scene.

[SES-SXE]

ok guys, i understand.... you guys are right, i didnt really think it through. well, sXe for life guys (and yes, i do listen to hardcore)

[tute]

mhhh i think straight edge its more than a subculture¡¡¡¡¡
straight edge is a movement of concience that can manifestate itself within many subcultures, its shoudlnt be reduced to hardcore¡¡¡ straight edge is there for any one that wants to live in a positive way.
why should straight edge be open to anyone? well because straight edge is the asnwer to all the shit that society tries to push into kids nowdays, straight edge opens a new perspective on things and shows kids the real values of being a positive inidvidual.
straight edge is a weapon that allows us (the youth) to be alert and take on life as it is.

sxe isnt about rules¡¡¡

[xsecx]

mhhh i think straight edge its more than a subculture¡¡¡¡¡
straight edge is a movement of concience that can manifestate itself within many subcultures, its shoudlnt be reduced to hardcore¡¡¡ straight edge is there for any one that wants to live in a positive way.
why should straight edge be open to anyone? well because straight edge is the asnwer to all the shit that society tries to push into kids nowdays, straight edge opens a new perspective on things and shows kids the real values of being a positive inidvidual.
straight edge is a weapon that allows us (the youth) to be alert and take on life as it is.

sxe isnt about rules¡¡¡

define what you think straight edge is then?

[tute]

define what you think straight edge is then?

Straight edge for me is a revolution that comes from within the concience of each individual that wants to live a life based on reality, truth and friendship.
Straight edge is a revolution that comes from the inside (each person) and explodes in the outside(society), straight edge is the revolution that keeps me alive and positive.

[Big_O_is_Stupid]

Straight edge for me is a revolution that comes from within the concience of each individual that wants to live a life based on reality, truth and friendship.
Straight edge is a revolution that comes from the inside (each person) and explodes in the outside(society), straight edge is the revolution that keeps me alive and positive.


I think you're trying to give a lifestyle a fancy name.

There's a difference between a drug free/allthestuffSXEstandsfor lifestyle, and the movement of straightedge within the hardcore/punk community.

[straightXed]

I think you're trying to give a lifestyle a fancy name.

There's a difference between a drug free/allthestuffSXEstandsfor lifestyle, and the movement of straightedge within the hardcore/punk community.

And the difference is?

[Big_O_is_Stupid]

And the difference is?


Straightedge was started for and within the hardcore/punk community.
It includes being involved in music, spreading messages through different techniques (too lazy to broaden the horizon here).


It wasn't for some kid named Ben who listens to Hanson and works at a shoe shop, only to come home to a lazy wife, where off he would sit on his couch and play playstation the remainder of the day, hungry because Helba won't make dinner.

(Yes, quite random and irrelivant, and I'm sure you won't get my point, or understand my answer.)

[xsecx]

Straight edge for me is a revolution that comes from within the concience of each individual that wants to live a life based on reality, truth and friendship.
Straight edge is a revolution that comes from the inside (each person) and explodes in the outside(society), straight edge is the revolution that keeps me alive and positive.

that doesn't explain what straight edge actually is? What makes someone straight edge? where did it come from? What are the characteristics of straight edge? and what makes you think it's more than a subculture and a revolution?

[straightXed]

Straightedge was started for and within the hardcore/punk community.
It includes being involved in music, spreading messages through different techniques (too lazy to broaden the horizon here).


It wasn't for some kid named Ben who listens to Hanson and works at a shoe shop, only to come home to a lazy wife, where off he would sit on his couch and play playstation the remainder of the day, hungry because Helba won't make dinner.

(Yes, quite random and irrelivant, and I'm sure you won't get my point, or understand my answer.)

But how is straightedge not a lifestyle? How is veing involved in hardcore music etc. not a lifestyle?

[tute]

that doesn't explain what straight edge actually is? What makes someone straight edge? where did it come from? What are the characteristics of straight edge? and what makes you think it's more than a subculture and a revolution?

It might not explain TO YOU what straight edge actually is.

For me the history of straight edge is just a way to put straight edge into a context, but it doesnt explain what sxe really means to me.
I take straight edge as something so important to me that i wouldnt even try to describe it quoting its history and minor thread's song "out of step".
For me is way more than not drinking,not smoking, not taking drugs, not being promiscuous, etc. (this is just a part of wat sxe means to me)
For me it means being free and not depending on anything, straight edge means not taking your life for granted and embracing the real and important things in life such as friendship,loyalty,honesty,honor, truth, respetc, etc.

i think sxe is more than a subculture, cause straight edge means life to me.

but i agree with the idea that sxe is a revolution.

[xsecx]

It might not explain TO YOU what straight edge actually is.

For me the history of straight edge is just a way to put straight edge into a context, but it doesnt explain what sxe really means to me.
I take straight edge as something so important to me that i wouldnt even try to describe it quoting its history and minor thread's song "out of step".
For me is way more than not drinking,not smoking, not taking drugs, not being promiscuous, etc. (this is just a part of wat sxe means to me)
For me it means being free and not depending on anything, straight edge means not taking your life for granted and embracing the real and important things in life such as friendship,loyalty,honesty,honor, truth, respetc, etc.

i think sxe is more than a subculture, cause straight edge means life to me.

but i agree with the idea that sxe is a revolution.

well no, you list a bunch of adjectives but don't actually go into detail as to what straight edge is, what makes someone straight edge, etc. This post still doesn't. If for you it's way more than not drinking not smoking and not taking drugs, what is it specifically and why do you think that? what more is it? It's like saying for me being a dog is always running after cars, it means living life to the fullest and never having regrets. It's licking your nuts and not caring. it's a total lifestyle!

[tute]

well no, you list a bunch of adjectives but don't actually go into detail as to what straight edge is, what makes someone straight edge, etc. This post still doesn't. If for you it's way more than not drinking not smoking and not taking drugs, what is it specifically and why do you think that? what more is it? It's like saying for me being a dog is always running after cars, it means living life to the fullest and never having regrets. It's licking your nuts and not caring. it's a total lifestyle!

all right i see waht you mean.............
in a very un-abstract fashion ill say sxe to me is:

staying away from all external things that might take you away from your goals, straight edge is a family thats made out of all the people that believe in a positive life free of all those things (i would take all my life listing all of them) that take you away form your goals and true intentions.
even though hardcore is the most important way of delivering the sxe message, you dont have to be part of the hardcore scene to be sxe. You do have to see your way of living as something that makes you part of a big family to be sxe, you definitely have to be a positive person in order to have the sxe in you, cuase theres alot of people that dont drink, dont smoke, etc,etc.....that arent sxe cuase they are negative,depressive and violent.

theres no way someone can realize they are sxe if they have never heard a hardcore/punk band with and sxe message in it.....you might have the sxe in you but you only realize that when you listen to a straight edge message in a hardcore band or go to a hardcore show....then you say "wait i minute im like that...i can totally relate with this message".

[xsecx]

all right i see waht you mean.............
in a very un-abstract fashion ill say sxe to me is:

staying away from all external things that might take you away from your goals, straight edge is a family thats made out of all the people that believe in a positive life free of all those things (i would take all my life listing all of them) that take you away form your goals and true intentions.
even though hardcore is the most important way of delivering the sxe message, you dont have to be part of the hardcore scene to be sxe. You do have to see your way of living as something that makes you part of a big family to be sxe, you definitely have to be a positive person in order to have the sxe in you, cuase theres alot of people that dont drink, dont smoke, etc,etc.....that arent sxe cuase they are negative,depressive and violent.

theres no way someone can realize they are sxe if they have never heard a hardcore/punk band with and sxe message in it.....you might have the sxe in you but you only realize that when you listen to a straight edge message in a hardcore band or go to a hardcore show....then you say "wait i minute im like that...i can totally relate with this message".

but then you're taking what actually makes straight edge unique and different and discarding it leaving only the message. The message isn't unique, the message isn't the only thing that makes straight edge what it is. what you're describing isn't straight edge at all, but is something different. It's the ideal without the subculture and the movement. I also know and have known a shitload of edge people that I wouldn't describe as positive but I would describe them as straight edge.

[tute]

but then you're taking what actually makes straight edge unique and different and discarding it leaving only the message. The message isn't unique, the message isn't the only thing that makes straight edge what it is. what you're describing isn't straight edge at all, but is something different. It's the ideal without the subculture and the movement. I also know and have known a shitload of edge people that I wouldn't describe as positive but I would describe them as straight edge.

i think being positive is an essential part of bieng sxe, what sense does it make to be edge and staying away from drugs if youre going to become a drug to society?

i also think youre putting youreself in a place where you get to judge whats right and whats not based on your personal opinion.

[xsecx]

i think being positive is an essential part of bieng sxe, what sense does it make to be edge and staying away from drugs if youre going to become a drug to society?


because people have different reasons for avoiding drugs and alcohol and not all of them are positive.



i also think youre putting youreself in a place where you get to judge whats right and whats not based on your personal opinion.
how do you figure that? you're the one saying that you aren't straight edge if you're not positive? I'm also not sure how I'm talking about my personal opinion when I'm saying straight edge is a subculture, which it is, and not just a set of ideas, which it isn't? I find it weird that you haven't answered why you think straight edge is as you describe it but then want to accuse me of dictating right and wrong? Please explain why you think straight edge is as you describe it and why you cameto that opinion and what supports your opinion?

[tute]

because people have different reasons for avoiding drugs and alcohol and not all of them are positive.


how do you figure that? you're the one saying that you aren't straight edge if you're not positive? I'm also not sure how I'm talking about my personal opinion when I'm saying straight edge is a subculture, which it is, and not just a set of ideas, which it isn't? I find it weird that you haven't answered why you think straight edge is as you describe it but then want to accuse me of dictating right and wrong? Please explain why you think straight edge is as you describe it and why you cameto that opinion and what supports your opinion?


because people have different reasons for avoiding drugs and alcohol and not all of them are positive.

well some of this people that avoid drugs without positive reasons can be know as hardline.



I find it weird that you haven't answered why you think straight edge is as you describe it but then want to accuse me of dictating right and wrong? Please explain why you think straight edge is as you describe it and why you cameto that opinion and what supports your opinion

I think you are dictating righ or wrong cause you say thigs like "Thats not what sxe is about" insted of saying "i dont agree with what you think straight edge is about"

i think straight edge is as i describe it cuase thats the way i been living the edge....thats what the edge has given to me, thats what i have learned and realized trough hardcore and trough my personal experience.
im not saying straight edge inst a subculture....im just saying that even though straight edge is a subculture, its not only that¡¡¡¡
Sxe can go far behond being just a subculture, it just dependes on wich perspective you are looking at sxe.
if your a reporter thats doing a story on sxe, sxe can seem like a subculture to you, but if youre sxe you then realize that straight edge means way more than just a subculture.

So.....sxe for me is way more than another subculture cause i know im gonna have it in me for the rest of my life, because straight edge has pushed me really far and has showed me a positive outlook on things.
Something that keeps you alive and fighting has to be more than just a subculture.
What supports my oipinion? well next time you go to a hardcore show take a moment to look at all the energy thats involved, and then you might say "this just cant be reduced to another subculture".

[straightXed]

well some of this people that avoid drugs without positive reasons can be know as hardline.

this is getting away from you a bit, hardline is established as something else you can't really use that term do describe this.



I think you are dictating righ or wrong cause you say thigs like "Thats not what sxe is about" insted of saying "i dont agree with what you think straight edge is about"

But to be fair its not him dictating right or wrong its just describing what straightedge's general accepted qualitys are, where as you are suggesting further qualitys that you haven't really given a foundation or example for.


i think straight edge is as i describe it cuase thats the way i been living the edge....thats what the edge has given to me, thats what i have learned and realized trough hardcore and trough my personal experience.

the thing about when you sum straightedge up with a personal experience is it gets confused. You are straightedge and from that you have gained much personal insight but that does not make straightedge the sum of your personal insight. People will have different personal experiences but how can they be what straightedge is? Say after becoming straight edge you became increasingly involved in animal rights and became vegan, this does not make veganism an attribute of being straightedge. You gave a list of things you feel describes straightedge, well if a straightedge kid lies has he broken edge? If a straightedge kid shows you no respect is he no longer straightedge?

The goals you spoke of in a previous post, are they personal goals or goals of straightedge hardcore as a whole?

And the issue of negativity, say someone has some kind of depressive attitude, perhaps a chemical imbalnce in their brain, would you deny that person being straightedge? Say they go to shows and abstaing from drink and drugs, how aren't they straightedge?


im not saying straight edge inst a subculture....im just saying that even though straight edge is a subculture, its not only that¡¡¡¡
Sxe can go far behond being just a subculture, it just dependes on wich perspective you are looking at sxe.

ok what cannot be more than its fundamental description when you skew your perspective? A rock can be so much more it can be a paper weight or a weapon or a focus of garden scenery. That does not mean a rock is all these things because if i put a rock in a room and told you to tell me what it is you should hopefully say a rock. What you use it for is a personal choice, same as the collective of perticular abstinance coupled with hardcore is called straightedge but when you use that to acheive something extra curiculer that becomes something new, its fundamentally still straightedge or a rock but you have manipulated its usage to suit you. The problem comes when you then try to establish this manipulation as the definition of straightedge, not all rocks make paper weights but all are rocks, its what ties it across the spectrum as a definitive meaning of what straightedge is. What it means to individuals is vast and vauge, if we all suggested straightedge should be defined by our personal experiences we would have a big mess with no substantial meaning. Anything can go beyond being its fundamental basis, not just rocks and straightedge, i mean the internet is just a huge computer network but it means so much more to some people, this doesn't change what it is this makes it something people can take from and utilise. Straightedge remains a subculture based on hardcore and abstinance but you can use that personally to spark other elements in your life, that makes it a case of you using it for other purposes based on your personal judgement that don't apply to its meaning.


if your a reporter thats doing a story on sxe, sxe can seem like a subculture to you, but if youre sxe you then realize that straight edge means way more than just a subculture.

Its provided you a basis as a subculture for you to spark other things, this does not make those things the sum of what straightedge is, learning a fundamental english course and later going on to be a playwrite does not make the act of being a playwrite does not get described by a fundamental english course. Where you go with things is your choice and you may grow to drop straightedge whilst remaining abstinent, the first step is not the whole journey and all these other things you have come to feel have just been follow on steps from one that seems a significant step. Straightedge seems significant because of its mutual attributes between many, its nature as a subculture makes it a highlighted point on your journey but there were steps before it that were just as important individually and steps after also, don't try and sum up everywhere you go after straightedge with the word straightedge, it will eventually be confining as well as ultimately giving you a confusing time explaining where you are comming from.


So.....sxe for me is way more than another subculture cause i know im gonna have it in me for the rest of my life, because straight edge has pushed me really far and has showed me a positive outlook on things.

You did the pushing not straightedge, to attribute these things to entitys you have little power over, you made a choice to allign with straightedge ideals and further chose to build on them to get where you are know. And whilst straightedge will always be significant in this time in your life in the future it may become a distant step that no longer has the relevance to you that it has now. In a sense you will have had it in your life and it will have turned you on to many new things but more than likely it will not be where you are at in 30 years time. This is not to suggest you will drink or smoke although all these things are possibilities, it suggestes that you take the choices that still apply and move with them, you continue to make evaluation on your life and make choices, the things you are learning about and chosing to do in 30 years time are not described by straightedge, nor are they described by significant choices before straightedge, they are simply your choices, nothing more nothing less.



Something that keeps you alive and fighting has to be more than just a subculture.

But anything can have profound effects on different individuals, a glass of water can save your life but it doesn't make it anything more than a glass of water. What you get from it is of course different to every person.



What supports my oipinion? well next time you go to a hardcore show take a moment to look at all the energy thats involved, and then you might say "this just cant be reduced to another subculture".

You make subculture sound like nothing, people being very fanatic about being involved in straightedge doesn't make straightedge anything more - going back to the internet equation, a network of computers is what it is yet how many people enjoy that vastly - a network of computers doesn't sound as interesting as what the end user derives from it. Sub-cultures can be a shit load of fun especially when you indentify with them. And hardcore is what makes it a subculture and that has always had energy attributed to it.


I hope this post sheds some light in areas, i do hope you take it on board in order to question what you have said thus far. If you do dispute what is said then i would encourage you to answer the questions included within the post in a legitimate manner because those are things that generally make what you have said hard to follow and see as something that stands, thank you for your time.

[tute]

i understand your point of view and i think is very interesting how you discuss my perspective on straight edge....i agree that im not a consecuence of straight edge, but in stead the fact that im straight edge is a consecuence of the way that i live.
i also think that i dont like to refer to straight edge only as a subculture cuase then it might be mistaken for "just another stereotype".... anyone who is edge knows that straight edge is something that we hold very close to our hearts and its not just another shallow movement of young people with an identity crisis.

thank you for taking the time to read and discuss what i think, and also for feeding this discussion.

[xsecx]

i understand your point of view and i think is very interesting how you discuss my perspective on straight edge....i agree that im not a consecuence of straight edge, but in stead the fact that im straight edge is a consecuence of the way that i live.
i also think that i dont like to refer to straight edge only as a subculture cuase then it might be mistaken for "just another stereotype".... anyone who is edge knows that straight edge is something that we hold very close to our hearts and its not just another shallow movement of young people with an identity crisis.


Yeah but you also can't deny the fact that to a majority of people involved now, in the past and in the future it is a movement for people with an identity crisis and because of that it's impossible to give straight edge credit for being anything more than a subculture. That being said, subcultures can be amazing things so I'm not quite sure why you're so down on the idea of calling straight edge what it is.

[straightXed]

i understand your point of view and i think is very interesting how you discuss my perspective on straight edge....i agree that im not a consecuence of straight edge, but in stead the fact that im straight edge is a consecuence of the way that i live.

whats consecuence?




i also think that i dont like to refer to straight edge only as a subculture cuase then it might be mistaken for "just another stereotype".... anyone who is edge knows that straight edge is something that we hold very close to our hearts and its not just another shallow movement of young people with an identity crisis.

But a stereotypical straightedger will define the attributes of what makes up straightedge. No drink,drugs etc. Its not a stereotypical youth movement because of these things but it does have stereotypical attributes that give an idea of what it is, things like fashion given it stereotypical themes also.

I'm not really sure what your problem with stereotyping is or how it being a subculture makes it a problem. Just because something has stereotypical attributes it doesn't make it shallow, people who choose only to base their opinion on a given stereotype are where the shallowness is. This is the same for anything, i mean theres stereotypes for loads of things which don't accurately describe whats going on or don't paint a complete picture. I mean England has plenty of stereotypes that aren't supported when you acctually visit the country as does America, its not wrong to know these things as cultures just because the stereotypes don't give the whole picture.

Besides it seems like the stereotypes are ones that pertain to young people as a whole as opposed to the sub culture, many young people do live up to their stereotype of latching on to this fad or that, in some cases it turns out to be something that means a lot to them but the high drop out rate of straightedge shows how it does reinforce the stereotypes of young people.

straightedge is a subculture but you are more than just straightedge, you can't be summed up by straightedge, that describes a very small part of who you are. Like being treated as a young person and dealing with the stuff that comes with that happens weather you are edge or not, thats an association to age, there are associations to many facets of your life that harbour stereotypes that you will deal with.


thank you for taking the time to read and discuss what i think, and also for feeding this discussion.

no problem

[xAlexinex]

Straightedge was started for and within the hardcore/punk community.
It includes being involved in music, spreading messages through different techniques (too lazy to broaden the horizon here).


It wasn't for some kid named Ben who listens to Hanson and works at a shoe shop, only to come home to a lazy wife, where off he would sit on his couch and play playstation the remainder of the day, hungry because Helba won't make dinner.

(Yes, quite random and irrelivant, and I'm sure you won't get my point, or understand my answer.)


I appreciate your take on life Big :)

And maybe people who know the music, who have actually lived with it and been with it (sadly to say us people in our later 20's early 30's), seem to understand the hardcore lifestyle a bit more. I think there's just a strange fascination with belonging to something that is forcing young kids to declare sXe without knowing any of the history behind it (I'm not judging those who really know the deal ) just what is written on Wiki and other places. Supporting indie and some confusing i dunno if I wanna be punk bands, and another form of fitting in, instead of being just drug free or free of whatever.

[Suzy]

I think Straight Edge was originally meant as 'Don't drink, don't smoke, don't fuck around'.

Or at least, that's when you see the Minor Threat songs as the origin of Straight Edge which is not completely true but at least they gave it a name. When you search on places like Wikipedia you'll find Minor Threat as the origin of Straight Edge, with their slogan 'don't drink, don't smoke, don't fuck around'.

I do like hardcore, but I don't feel comfortable around these 'hardcore-hate-everything-vegan-straightedge-radical people that smack people in the face for smoking and spit at girls who had an abortion. That has nothing to do with straight edge and only a very little tiny bit with the straightedge hardcore movement, or at least with the scene / movement I identify myself with.

[straightXed]

I think Straight Edge was originally meant as 'Don't drink, don't smoke, don't fuck around'.

Or at least, that's when you see the Minor Threat songs as the origin of Straight Edge which is not completely true but at least they gave it a name. When you search on places like Wikipedia you'll find Minor Threat as the origin of Straight Edge, with their slogan 'don't drink, don't smoke, don't fuck around'.

The problem with that is the song minor threat made called straight edge had no mention of sex, the slogan you refer to came from the song out of step. If you are going to take the lyrics of other monor threat songs as indication to the meaning then its left widely open to interpretation. Straight edge bands continued to make little reference to sex as an aspect of straightedge and it just seems to be a misconception based on the catchiness of the lyrics of the "out of step" song.


I do like hardcore, but I don't feel comfortable around these 'hardcore-hate-everything-vegan-straightedge-radical people that smack people in the face for smoking and spit at girls who had an abortion. That has nothing to do with straight edge and only a very little tiny bit with the straightedge hardcore movement, or at least with the scene / movement I identify myself with.

How do you differentiate straightedge and the straightedge hardcore movement?

The abortion thing seems more to do with hardline than straightedge, the two are seperate beliefs and shouldn't be confused. As for the militant types its very unfortunate and isn't the consensus of the majority within straightedge and is seemingly born of ignorance.

[Reticent Jester]

Um, I see where you are coming from. But one note: We here on the site aren't all Southern, so please speak upright grammar.

If you'd bothered to read his posts here, and look at where he's from, you'd notice he said something to the effect of "sorry I'm not very good at English" and he's from Denmark.

Just for curiosity's sake, to see what everyone's opinion (probably more Dusty's opnion, as he is the expert here) is it not edge to smoke certain things? ie, my friends mother makes natural smokes out of things such as mint, sprouts, lettuce, and other things that don't actually give you any change in feeling, or any high. These are used primarily in helping people quit smoking cigarettes. Now because it's not tobacco, and it's not a drug, is it against the edge? My own personal view is that it's not, as it doesn't give you a high, and it doesn't cause any sort of disease; Also, as it is a viable alternative to tobacco for those who're having problems quitting, I see it in certain cases as being almost an aid to one's sXe behavior. Let me know what you guys think.

[straightXed]

If you'd bothered to read his posts here, and look at where he's from, you'd notice he said something to the effect of "sorry I'm not very good at English" and he's from Denmark.

Just for curiosity's sake, to see what everyone's opinion (probably more Dusty's opnion, as he is the expert here) is it not edge to smoke certain things? ie, my friends mother makes natural smokes out of things such as mint, sprouts, lettuce, and other things that don't actually give you any change in feeling, or any high. These are used primarily in helping people quit smoking cigarettes. Now because it's not tobacco, and it's not a drug, is it against the edge? My own personal view is that it's not, as it doesn't give you a high, and it doesn't cause any sort of disease; Also, as it is a viable alternative to tobacco for those who're having problems quitting, I see it in certain cases as being almost an aid to one's sXe behavior. Let me know what you guys think.

If its not a drug i don't see how its even an issue.

[Reticent Jester]

If its not a drug i don't see how its even an issue.

That's what I had figured, although the whole caffiene/taurine thing sort of confused me a bit.

[Suzy]

I actually said songs and thus referring to a lot of Minor Threat songs. I know the lines I quoted are from out of step. A lot of Minor Threat songs have contributed to the general idea of Straight Edge: except for straight edge & out of step: in my eyes, bottled violence.

I personally do consider the 'no [casual] sex' part as an important part of straight edge. Straight edge is about anti addiction and keeping a clear mind and I think our society is much too focused on sex. There's no need to think about sex 24/7, sex was originally meant to get pregnant and not just for fun. I'm not saying that it's wrong to have pleasure from sex, but our society is really to much focused on the pleasure-part.

[straightXed]

That's what I had figured, although the whole caffiene/taurine thing sort of confused me a bit.

How so?

[straightXed]

I actually said songs and thus referring to a lot of Minor Threat songs. I know the lines I quoted are from out of step. A lot of Minor Threat songs have contributed to the general idea of Straight Edge: except for straight edge & out of step: in my eyes, bottled violence.

In that case how is religion able to coincide with straightedge? I mean lets look at filler. And lets also look at the other bands that made straightedge what it is and lets not forget that minor threats intent was rather different to what straightedge became, lets look at the consensus of what straightedge came to mean with the people that adopted the term. The point remains that the song titled straightedge does not describe sex and this doesn't prevail as something straightedge focusses on. They become personal choices you make but if you have sex it has absoloutely no bearing on being straightedge whatsoever.


I personally do consider the 'no [casual] sex' part as an important part of straight edge.

But personal interpretation means what? That your personal thought has more bearing than the entire collective of people that established what straightedge is? straightedge does not focus on not fucking, which you personally interpret as no casual sex. I don't think its importance is in question just that its clearly not a straightedge issue. I'm happy for your personal choice but its not one shared throughout the straightedge community.


Straight edge is about anti addiction and keeping a clear mind and I think our society is much too focused on sex.

see you say straightedge is about 'x' and that you think 'y', this does not mean 'y' adheres to what straightedge is about just because you personally think it. If you think theres to much focus on sex then fine but its not an edge issue otherwise it would be prevelant within lyrics and people within the community etc.



There's no need to think about sex 24/7, sex was originally meant to get pregnant and not just for fun.

Says who? thats a rather homophoibic stance to take, homosexual sex doesn't result in procreation so you allude that sex has no meaning, who says this is what sex is meant for? seriously i want to know? Does companionship and enjoyment have no bearing? How do these things take second place and who says they do?

Is this just our society or is there a lot of sex in say the animal kingdom that doesn't happen just for procreation? yes there is, and yes sometimes that is homosexual and has no chance of being about procreation, so how is that somehow second place to procreational sex? I don't plan on having kids anytime soon, should i stop having sex? no, because sex is good and healthy regardless of procreation


I'm not saying that it's wrong to have pleasure from sex, but our society is really to much focused on the pleasure-part.

You are saying that pleasure is somehow less important than procreation, yet that our society finds the pleasure part to be more of a reason to have sex. So society already tells you your opinion doesn't fit with them, so why do you think that is? Because they are all addicted to sex or something? How much focus is to much focus on enjoyment? I don't believe there is to much focus on pleasure from sex and i don't think its a bad thing and i definitely don't see it as an aspect of straightedge at all. There are negative aspects of sex too, such as std's etc. and whilst i think they are things people should be aware of i don't see straightedge as a vehicle to give awareness for every negative activity, besides an avoidence of sex can be very unhealthy and suggesting all these negative aspects can give people a lot of hang ups about sex. And whilst its rather clear cut to have a stance against drugs to have one against sex is really vague, you have chosen to refer to it as casual sex, well what is casual sex? and is it not completely possible to get std's within a relationship? If a sexual drive is a very natural and healthy thing to have why would supressing it be a positive thing to do? Essentially if you are careful you can have lots of casual sex with no problems whatsoever and what the hell is wrong with that if you enjoy it? I mean people get enjoyment from long term relationships but sometimes people would prefer a short fling and between two consenting adults where is the problem? Is deriving pleasure from it really what you are against? Perhaps video games should be a focus of straightedge? I mean computers weren't intended in their first conception to be for home entertainment and we focus on that a lot. I'm sorry but i find your argument heavily flawed but its your personal choice not an aspect of straightedge so it doesn't really matter.

[xCrucialDudex]

That your personal thought has more bearing than the entire collective of people that established what straightedge is?


If you think theres to much focus on sex then fine but its not an edge issue otherwise it would be prevelant within lyrics and people within the community etc.

Let us imagine that if a bunch of bands will form and start singing about abstinence from sex is straight edge, will it become an issue then? I mean, many people seem to have dim understanding of what the straight edge is and these people may form a large group within straigt edge community and what then? Will the current group of straight edge kids be able to enlighten as much other kids as it makes it possible for the "right" interpretation of what straight edge is survive through whatever future brings? I mean, couldn't it be so that prevalence of another interpretation of straight edge will oust the current one?

[xCrucialDudex]

If a sexual drive is a very natural and healthy thing to have why would supressing it be a positive thing to do?

The whole deal about this issue is that many people find themselves under pressure or better call it stimulation to have sex, which is due to many multifarious circumstances and effects of the history of the current society, they find themselves unprotected from it, with no clear cut personal take on the subject, not ready to understand that they just don't want any sex, or other way round want it more or in some other quality and try to fit this sexual move into the table of Society's Opinion (which doesn't exist, in fact. random people say too much sex is bad, some say any sex is bad, some say it's damn good, some say homosexualism is a serious deviation, others are just bisexual...)

[straightXed]

Let us imagine that if a bunch of bands will form and start singing about abstinence from sex is straight edge, will it become an issue then?


Its possible but doubtful, its like many bands have made a lot of stuff about animal rights and whilst it shares space in the hardcore scene and often accompanies straightedge its not a straightedge issue.


I mean, many people seem to have dim understanding of what the straight edge is and these people may form a large group of straigt edge bands and what then?

see above, if people try to recreate it however then it would mean essentialy be ignoring the history and/or creating something new if so then surely it should get a way to define itself from what it was based upon. Much like people add a prefix to straightedge to attribut the vegan belief "vegan straightedge" - its actually just 2 seperate beliefs being coupled. Things do change in hardcore and straightedge and whilst you are suggesting something a little imaginary you have to remember that a definition is something that is largely definitive of what it describes. Now across the board it is pretty much definitive that straightedge is an anti drug stance rooted in hardcore. when you attribute extra beliefs it begins to make things vague, like i have a lot of personal beliefs which people may not share and if i begin to suggest they are straightedge beliefs because i find people with similar mindsets then how does that encompass the already established scene who simply believe in an anti drug stance rooted in hardcore? If however it became the consensus of straightedge people everywhere and was completely uncontended then sure it would create change. That has happened in the history of straightedge but it seems you are suggesting a group with slightly different beliefs could emerge and call themselves straightedge it ignores how they have set themselves apart from an active scene. I mean whilst they share common ground the entirity of their movements belief actually goes beyond what straightedge fundamentally means. Looking at the straightedge scene as is it doesn't give light to no sex being a fundamental.



Will the current group of straight edge kids be able to enlighten as much other kids as it makes it possible for the "right" interpretation of what straight edge is survive through whatever future brings? I mean, couldn't it be so that prevalence of another interpretation of straight edge will oust the current one?

Yeah you mean like hot topic ignores the fundamentals of what is already there, and just lift the marketable aspect. And religious groups or white power groups using straightedge as a cool vehicle to get their message accross and recruit. Its very possible they will create a lot of misconception and all of this is why straightedge has fought to remain in hardcore and away from mass marketing, its a scene that is created by and for hardcore kids, people within that scene govern what it is as equals and sometimes its kinda sad when theres a negative element and we speak out against it by supporting bands that speak out in favour of keeping this scene very alive, very real and very much in touch with itself. There are some online groups that are happy to ignore any relevence hardcore has to being straightedge and people will gain misconception in such places to the point that its very difficult to let them even see how wrong they are about exactly what straightedge is, its an issue that is already in existance. What's impotant to remember is that straightedge surrvived for a long time based only on the people that attended shows and the people that picked up the music of bands at these shows. This continued by hardcore kids working to keep there own thing alive and it grew world wise. If that attitude continues and the people involved continue to believe what they believe then i don't see how it will ever be truly ousted by people who come along and say straightedge means x, y or z. However if people did retard the scene so much with new beliefs then sure the scene would dissipate and we would be left with a new straightedge with a new meaning and a really ugly history behind it.

[straightXed]

The whole deal about this issue is that many people find themselves under pressure or better call it stimulation to have sex, which is due to many multifarious circumstances and effects of the history of the current society, they find themselves unprotected from it, with no clear cut personal take on the subject, not ready to understand that they just don't want any sex, or other way round want it more or in some other quality and try to fit this sexual move into the table of Society's Opinion (which doesn't exist, in fact. random people say too much sex is bad, some say any sex is bad, some say it's damn good, some say homosexualism is a serious deviation, others are just bisexual...)

Long sentence! And hard to read too, but i'll try to understand what you are attempting to say.



The whole deal about this issue is that many people find themselves under pressure or better call it stimulation to have sex

The issue about pressure can come from any angle, peer pressure from others around you saying sex is wrong may make you feel wrong about having perfectly healthy sexual thoughts. Theres pressure when growing up to have sex and theres pressure not too also, mainly from peers, peer presure manifests in many ways but strasightedge only really addresses the peer pressure of drugs.



which is due to many multifarious circumstances and effects of the history of the current society, they find themselves unprotected from it,

so what are you saying here? That they have no concept of precuations against pregnancy etc. Isn't this an issue for either parents or schooling? Its not a straightedge issue is it?



with no clear cut personal take on the subject, not ready to understand that they just don't want any sex,

ok, so with no personal take on the subject they have one group of peers with a take saying sex is good and another group of pears saying it should be avoided. They will still be confused and it is a personal issue and thus not one that straightedge as a movement can really make a stance on as a) its not a drug related issue and b) neither choice is clearly the right or wrong choice.


or other way round want it more or in some other quality and try to fit this sexual move into the table of Society's Opinion (which doesn't exist, in fact. random people say too much sex is bad, some say any sex is bad, some say it's damn good, some say homosexualism is a serious deviation, others are just bisexual...)

This all just makes no sense here really and i've struggled to find what you are trying to say with this post. The fact that some say sex is good and some say sex is bad isn't really the issue its that its not a straightedge issue, much like veganism isn't a straightedge issue. homosexuality is not a serious deviation from being human the only thing it really devaites from is being hetrosexual. The point of course is that if sex is meant for procreation then somehow homosexual sex has less meaning than hetrosexual sex but it is extremely valid. And it pretty much stands as a testament as proof that the importance of sex goes way beyond procreation.

[xCrucialDudex]

That has happened in the history of straightedge but it seems you are suggesting a group with slightly different beliefs could emerge and call themselves straightedge it ignores how they have set themselves apart from an active scene.

Could you please tell me what that "that" was exactly?
I'm curious about it.


This all just makes no sense here really and i've struggled to find what you are trying to say with this post.

Exactly what the post says. I mean, I should've added that straight edge has nothing to do with the regulations to have a sex. I failed to express myself quite clearly, so I'm saying sorry for that now.


The fact that some say sex is good and some say sex is bad isn't really the issue its that its not a straightedge issue

Exactly.
It is NOT a straight edge issue by all means.
It is NOT an issue at all unless and until one understands that there's no any sort of regulation on the subject, there's only his/her personal demand and decision.

[straightXed]

Could you please tell me what that "that" was exactly?
I'm curious about it.

"That" = wasn't any one thing, its a collective of incidents depending on how you look at things. I would suggest looking at what was regarded as the norm for straightedge in the early 80's to what was considered the norm now, there has been changes.




Exactly what the post says. I mean, I should've added that straight edge has nothing to do with the regulations to have a sex. I failed to express myself quite clearly, so I'm saying sorry for that now.

I still have no idea what you said in the part i quoted in the last post.



Exactly.
It is NOT a straight edge issue by all means.
It is NOT an issue at all unless and until one understands that there's no any sort of regulation on the subject, there's only his/her personal demand and decision.

So whats your issue?

[xCrucialDudex]

I don't have any. Should I?

[straightXed]

I don't have any. Should I?

You seemed to have issue with my comment/question - "If a sexual drive is a very natural and healthy thing to have why would supressing it be a positive thing to do?"

Your response didn't really address that question and i have no idea what you have been addressing although i tried to address, to the best of my ability, what you said. I just don't understand how that has relevence to the comment/question i made.

I am more confused now as its not an issue at all and you suggest it only becomes an issue when people realise there is no regulation, i don't understand that and i also don't understand what regulation we are talking about? Law? Health?

I believe suppressing sexuality and sexual drives is an issue. Ok its not something that pertains to straightedge but the question i made is about what is healthy and positive, not what is straightedge. You chose to isolate that one sentence and haven't really addressed it, you have brought up the issue of suppression of a healthy drive and how or why that would be positive so whats your issue with that?

[xCrucialDudex]

You seemed to have issue with my comment/question - "If a sexual drive is a very natural and healthy thing to have why would supressing it be a positive thing to do?"

Not really, I agree completely with what you said.


Your response didn't really address that question and i have no idea what you have been addressing although i tried to address, to the best of my ability, what you said.

I just failed to express my thought quite clearly (if not at all). At the moment of sending the message I thought it could let you know what I meant, but I was wrong.


I am more confused now as its not an issue at all and you suggest it only becomes an issue when people realise there is no regulation, i don't understand that and i also don't understand what regulation we are talking about? Law? Health?

Mistaken POV?


I believe suppressing sexuality and sexual drives is an issue.

So it is. I didn't speak against it neither I do now, in fact.


You chose to isolate that one sentence and haven't really addressed it, you have brought up the issue of suppression of a healthy drive and how or why that would be positive so whats your issue with that?

I isolated your sentence not to address it because of an issue I have just to support your statement and continue with reasoning.

[kelly]

are you guys just arguing about how much you agree with each other?

[straightXed]

I isolated your sentence not to address it because of an issue I have just to support your statement and continue with reasoning.

Ok it just seemed unrelated to what you isolated which made it harder to understand what you were on about.

[straightXed]

are you guys just arguing about how much you agree with each other?


Shut up.

[kelly]

Shut up.
i don't wanna

[straightXed]

i don't wanna


It was more a philosophy than a demand

[kelly]

It was more a philosophy than a demand
way to keep it on topic.

[straightXed]

way to keep it on topic.

Thank you

[XWereHoundX]

To what extent would you have to listen to hardcore music to be able to label yourself as a sxe? Since most of us know that sxe came from hxc, how "hardcore" would you have to be?

and a second subject matter is that i was just wondering, does anyone find that being a sxe is a contradictory in itself? i.e. drugs and alchohol are in the food we eat (not all), but does every sxe have to go through the ingredients to figure out if it would be edible or not? If this isn't an issue to sxe'rs then the whole no drugs/alchohol would seem to contradict itself. Or is the true meaning of sxe is about no mind affecting consumables? but then everything affects our minds in one way or another. sometimes positively and sometimes negatively. and as for pain killers? yes we know its a drug. but because someone is sxe they can't take pain killers? cuz if they did they wouldnt be sxe anymore? what is the straight definition of stright edge because it varies from people to people/ place to place.... even though it started from hxc.

[xsecx]

To what extent would you have to listen to hardcore music to be able to label yourself as a sxe? Since most of us know that sxe came from hxc, how "hardcore" would you have to be?


it's a 1 or a 0. you either are or you aren't. You either like hardcore and are apart of it or you aren't and you don't. Knowing where something comes from isn't the same as being a part of it.



and a second subject matter is that i was just wondering, does anyone find that being a sxe is a contradictory in itself? i.e. drugs and alchohol are in the food we eat (not all), but does every sxe have to go through the ingredients to figure out if it would be edible or not? If this isn't an issue to sxe'rs then the whole no drugs/alchohol would seem to contradict itself. Or is the true meaning of sxe is about no mind affecting consumables? but then everything affects our minds in one way or another. sometimes positively and sometimes negatively. and as for pain killers? yes we know its a drug. but because someone is sxe they can't take pain killers? cuz if they did they wouldnt be sxe anymore? what is the straight definition of stright edge because it varies from people to people/ place to place.... even though it started from hxc.

If you're against the recreational consumption of drugs and alcohol, then why would you consume products that contain them? I'm also not quite sure what you mean that straight edge varies from place to place or person to person. It has a clear definition. It's a subculture centered around hardcore music and is against the recreational use of drugs.

[straightXed]

To what extent would you have to listen to hardcore music to be able to label yourself as a sxe? Since most of us know that sxe came from hxc, how "hardcore" would you have to be?

To echo what has already been said, its not a measure of "how hardcore" someone is, it s just people either being into and enjoying hardcore or not.


and a second subject matter is that i was just wondering, does anyone find that being a sxe is a contradictory in itself? i.e. drugs and alchohol are in the food we eat (not all), but does every sxe have to go through the ingredients to figure out if it would be edible or not? If this isn't an issue to sxe'rs then the whole no drugs/alchohol would seem to contradict itself. Or is the true meaning of sxe is about no mind affecting consumables? but then everything affects our minds in one way or another. sometimes positively and sometimes negatively. and as for pain killers? yes we know its a drug. but because someone is sxe they can't take pain killers? cuz if they did they wouldnt be sxe anymore? what is the straight definition of stright edge because it varies from people to people/ place to place.... even though it started from hxc.

Straightedge isn't contradictory, if food or drink carries a level of drugs or alcohol that is not negligible and would cause effect after consumption you would obviously avoid that but how often does that occur? It isn't going result in fastidious label searching for every meal however theres nothing wrong with knowing exactly what you are consuming prior to consumming it.

The stance is obviously against the recreational use of mind altering drugs, you go on to say everything effects our mind. This is a problematic statement in the understanding this is an anti-drug stance. Music changes our thought pattern but this isn't the result of drug induced stimulus, so the statement ignoring the factoring in of recreational usage of drugs.

Pain killers, or any medicine taken for medicinal purposes does not constitute breaking edge as the ideology behind straightedge is not about abstinace for drugs needed for good health. It is about abstinace of the use of drugs that have no legitimate purpose, recreational drug use, drugs that can be used to alter the mind for fun and leisure. Its a ridiculous notion to refuse medicinal help based on being straightdge and its not in line with being straightedge. I have heard of some idiots who refused anesthetic when having their teeth pulled because of the drugs, its idiotic, can cause complications and make procedures harder. Anyone who thinks that the idea of this movement is against the world medicine and its progression is misguided and i'm yet to see a decent argument for refusing medicine based on straightedge. Self administrating medicine is obviously different and should be used in line with common sense, popping pain killers willy nilly just because its legal isn't clever and if it isn't needed then it would indeed infringe the ideology of what straightedge is about as it then comes into a recreational useage.

This is the accepted idea of what straightedge is, people who vary from that are generally trying to change it to fit themselves when the common accepted version doesn't describe them. But within hardcore the active straightedge movement pretty much adheres to this ideology.

[XWereHoundX]

it's a 1 or a 0. you either are or you aren't. You either like hardcore and are apart of it or you aren't and you don't. Knowing where something comes from isn't the same as being a part of it.


To echo what has already been said, its not a measure of "how hardcore" someone is, it s just people either being into and enjoying hardcore or not.


Well lets say that someone does enjoy hardcore music and own hardcore albums. How much would they have to listen to it? Like if someone listens to punk rock, metal, etc. AND hardcore but not as much hardcore as punk. Would they be rejected for calling themselves straightedge instead of: [a person who is against the recreational use of drugs/alcohol.] (or whatever non-hardcore listeners might call themselves) ?


I'm also not quite sure what you mean that straight edge varies from place to place or person to person. It has a clear definition. It's a subculture centered around hardcore music and is against the recreational use of drugs.

he explained it :


This is the accepted idea of what straightedge is, people who vary from that are generally trying to change it to fit themselves when the common accepted version doesn't describe them. But within hardcore the active straightedge movement pretty much adheres to this ideology.

[straightXed]

Well lets say that someone does enjoy hardcore music and own hardcore albums. How much would they have to listen to it?

What on earth? There aren't record listening quotas!




Like if someone listens to punk rock, metal, etc. AND hardcore but not as much hardcore as punk. Would they be rejected for calling themselves straightedge instead of: [a person who is against the recreational use of drugs/alcohol.] (or whatever non-hardcore listeners might call themselves) ?

But they wouldn't be non-hardcore listeners if they listen to some hardcore. The way you have constructed this statement seems that you feel they have to primarily listen to hardcore in order to be a hardcore listener, i feel that is innacurate.

[xCrucialDudex]

But personal interpretation means what? That your personal thought has more bearing than the entire collective of people that established what straightedge is?

Could you please explain how do you personally and exactly get to know what the entire collective of people within the straight edge hardcore movement thinks? How do you exactly know when this entire collective of people (within the straight edge hardcore movement) reaches or reached a consensus concerning anything? What methods do you use (if any particular) to obtain such an information?


I'm happy for your personal choice but its not one shared throughout the straightedge community.

How can you speak for the whole community and be sure that what you tell people here represents each persons' point of view and agreement within the mentioned community (which is straight edge hardcore community as far as I can understand)?


If however it became the consensus of straightedge people everywhere and was completely uncontended then sure it would create change.

I suppose you meant to say "completely unintended" but not "uncontended", correct? So, my question to you is how do you exactly know if it was completely unintended?


That has happened in the history of straightedge but it seems you are suggesting a group with slightly different beliefs could emerge and call themselves straightedge it ignores how they have set themselves apart from an active scene. I mean whilst they share common ground the entirity of their movements belief actually goes beyond what straightedge fundamentally means.

There're many people out there who say that straightedge is possible to be separated from straightedge hardcore music. This is what many of new kids to the whole straightedge thing believe and you and the others go on again and again in this forum explaining to them that it's not possible to deprive straightedge of its linkage to hardcore music. The point I'm making that it's not a "slightly different beliefs" but an absolutely incorrect understanding. Given that and hypothetically steady and relatively fast growing number of people adopting this incorrect understanding of what the Straight Edge is as the only possible correct definition what the outcome will be like? You say it's doubtful that this group of people will be able to turn the tables on the current state of things but it's just the same rate of possibility that they will succeed.


Yeah you mean like hot topic ignores the fundamentals of what is already there, and just lift the marketable aspect. And religious groups or white power groups using straightedge as a cool vehicle to get their message accross and recruit. Its very possible they will create a lot of misconception...

Haven't they created a lof it yet?
I tend to see many people claiming "straightedge doesn't mean hardcore" as (just) one of the evidences of it.

[xCrucialDudex]

so what are you saying here? That they have no concept of precuations against pregnancy etc.
No, I am saying that they find themselves unprotected from the pressure.

[xCrucialDudex]

It has a clear definition. It's a subculture centered around hardcore music and is against the recreational use of drugs.

If this is really a definition for straightedge then who defined it?

[xsecx]

If this is really a definition for straightedge then who defined it?
the same way all subcultures are, by the people who are a part of it.

[straightXed]

Could you please explain how do you personally and exactly get to know what the entire collective of people within the straight edge hardcore movement thinks? How do you exactly know when this entire collective of people (within the straight edge hardcore movement) reaches or reached a consensus concerning anything? What methods do you use (if any particular) to obtain such an information?

are you just being stupid today?




How can you speak for the whole community and be sure that what you tell people here represents each persons' point of view and agreement within the mentioned community (which is straight edge hardcore community as far as I can understand)?

i'm not speaking for individuals, i'm refering to the views of the community as a defining majority.




I suppose you meant to say "completely unintended" but not "uncontended", correct? So, my question to you is how do you exactly know if it was completely unintended?

Nope, i meant uncontended.




There're many people out there who say that straightedge is possible to be separated from straightedge hardcore music. This is what many of new kids to the whole straightedge thing believe and you and the others go on again and again in this forum explaining to them that it's not possible to deprive straightedge of its linkage to hardcore music. The point I'm making that it's not a "slightly different beliefs" but an absolutely incorrect understanding. Given that and hypothetically steady and relatively fast growing number of people adopting this incorrect understanding of what the Straight Edge is as the only possible correct definition what the outcome will be like? You say it's doubtful that this group of people will be able to turn the tables on the current state of things but it's just the same rate of possibility that they will succeed.

I say its doubtful, where? I say its something that people, who have worked hard to keep straightedge and hardcore a vital and crucial entity, would not want to see happen. The point is if you seperate straightedge from hardcore what makes being straightedge unique? It ignores the history and further more sets it up to mean nothing. People passionate about this belief arent looking for that, people who just want a name will try and co-opt the idea but change it to fit them. I think its very possible that straightedge could have the tables turned and that would be rather sad. After all it is something i am passionate about. I mean its pretty simple really if you remove the hardcore element its not straightedge anymore, straightedge was always and still is about hardcore kids that don't do drugs. Besides the passage you quated was about something different.




Haven't they created a lof it yet?
I tend to see many people claiming "straightedge doesn't mean hardcore" as (just) one of the evidences of it.

Yeah and people used to claim that straightedge was just a starting point to krsna conciousness, or that hardcore was about white power. Point is people always try to co opt this but throughout the years people have faught to keep this relevent and crucial and worked bloody hard to do that. People like to take stuff, co-opt it, use it, abuse it, wipe there ass with it and then forget about it, being aware of that is why i said the things i said.

[straightXed]

No, I am saying that they find themselves unprotected from the pressure.

Rightio bob, perhaps protection or unprotected is not the best word/phrase to use in that context, generally protection when discussing sex and/or pregnancy will refer to contreception - for your future reference.

[strHATEdge]

damn everyone needs to stop being so critical. i mean, we are all sXe right? isnt that what matters? and besides, im sure everyone wasnt straight edge at one time or another and wether they realized it or not.

[xsecx]

but with ou the philosophy, it would be nothing. how would any band be able to be considered anything if they had no philosophy behind them. and im sorry to say but even rap has a certain phlosophy behind it. the bottom line is without philosophy, life would be balnk and meaningless.

where did I say that it had no philosophy behind it?

[xCrucialDudex]

the same way all subcultures are, by the people who are a part of it.

Good, there are many people who say that hardcore is a part of straightedge and exists only within this environment. There are also many people who say that there's just nothing that mandates its linkage to hardcore music and scene and that straightedge can go beyond its "roots" (hardcore scene and music). All of these people see themselves as straightedge, as part of the sub-culture. You and the rest you're opposed to you all do contribute to development of this sub-culture. The significance of your contribution is equal. So how can any party belonging to the same sub-culture argue against the other and claim that their interpretation of the notion (namely straightedge we're discussing) is the only true? You say that they are wrong but as long as they're a part of the same sub-culture they're as just right as you are. Or should I say that you are just as wrong as you claim that they are?

[rodrigo]

Good, there are many people who say that hardcore is a part of straightedge and exists only within this environment. There are also many people who say that there's just nothing that mandates its linkage to hardcore music and scene and that straightedge can go beyond its "roots" (hardcore scene and music). All of these people see themselves as straightedge, as part of the sub-culture. You and the rest you're opposed to you all do contribute to development of this sub-culture. The significance of your contribution is equal. So how can any party belonging to the same sub-culture argue against the other and claim that their interpretation of the notion (namely straightedge we're discussing) is the only true? You say that they are wrong but as long as they're a part of the same sub-culture they're as just right as you are. Or should I say that you are just as wrong as you claim that they are?
if its not in hardcore, its not straight edge, even if they say so, it would be a different subculture.

[xCrucialDudex]

if its not in hardcore, its not straight edge, even if they say so, it would be a different subculture.

Alright. Have you got any other argument besides "even if they say so"?

[rodrigo]

Alright. Have you got any other argument besides "even if they say so"?
i believe that the argument there was the "another subculture"

[xsecx]

Good, there are many people who say that hardcore is a part of straightedge and exists only within this environment. There are also many people who say that there's just nothing that mandates its linkage to hardcore music and scene and that straightedge can go beyond its "roots" (hardcore scene and music). All of these people see themselves as straightedge, as part of the sub-culture. You and the rest you're opposed to you all do contribute to development of this sub-culture. The significance of your contribution is equal. So how can any party belonging to the same sub-culture argue against the other and claim that their interpretation of the notion (namely straightedge we're discussing) is the only true? You say that they are wrong but as long as they're a part of the same sub-culture they're as just right as you are. Or should I say that you are just as wrong as you claim that they are?

except that the people who claim that hardcore isn't a part of it only exposure to the subculture is through the internet. I've yet to see any real gathering, group or organzation of any kind that isn't internet only claim this. how can you make claims as to what a subculture is and isn't without any real involvement in it? my point is that they actually aren't a part of the same subculture at all.

[xCrucialDudex]

except that the people who claim that hardcore isn't a part of it only exposure to the subculture is through the internet. I've yet to see any real gathering, group or organzation of any kind that isn't internet only claim this.

That sounds quite reasonable but back to the question I've already asked previously: how do you know for sure that these people come and talk about straightedge and the way they see it exclusively on the Internet? The fact you haven't seen any gathering in real life doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You're just not able physically to track down all of the changes happening within this environment (i.e. straightedge hardcore movement). It's possible though but it would require investments which is I don't think is the case with you.

Doest it really matter if people gather on the Internet or in real life to just talk about something? I mean these people are most likely going out to shows just like other do. Just like you communicating in this forum with virtual users and then going out to real shows in real life to communicate with real people. After all, the Internet is just means of communication. How does it influence the validity of message being spread so that it becomes less significant than a message spread in a real life, face-to-face communication?

How can you know if anyone talking in the Internet forums is exposed to the subculture only through the Internet?

This is just something you can't really be sure of until you go and ask each and other member of that forum if they are.


how can you make claims as to what a subculture is and isn't without any real involvement in it?

What makes you think that any person in the Internet forum isn't involved in the subculture? Can't a person be an active Internet forum user and be involved in the movement at the same time?

When you say it like this it really sounds as an unsubstantiated allegation. My guess it doesn't only sound like that but it is.


my point is that they actually aren't a part of the same subculture at all.

How is that? Who on earth can tell if they are or not? A gathering of people in real life can do that? What if we count people in the gatherings and figure out that those saying straightedge isn't linked with hardcore outnumber those who say it is? That would be an effective method and it would tell us more or less exactly who's right and who's wrong and how straight edge changed through the history and what it has become and what it is now at the current stage of its development.

I've not seen yet any evidence of why straight edge cannot be separated from hardcore. I myself don't really like (I don't like it all to be honest) the idea of Indie or Hip-Hop Straight Edge but I don't know of any reason prohibiting or preventing straight edge from being separated from hardcore music and hardcore scene.

Is there any?

[xsecx]

That sounds quite reasonable but back to the question I've already asked previously: how do you know for sure that these people come and talk about straightedge and the way they see it exclusively on the Internet? The fact you haven't seen any gathering in real life doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You're just not able physically to track down all of the changes happening within this environment (i.e. straightedge hardcore movement). It's possible though but it would require investments which is I don't think is the case with you.


it is possible, however there is no evidence that this is the case. For it to be the case, then it would be very easy to physically track it down.



Doest it really matter if people gather on the Internet or in real life to just talk about something? I mean these people are most likely going out to shows just like other do. Just like you communicating in this forum with virtual users and then going out to real shows in real life to communicate with real people. After all, the Internet is just means of communication. How does it influence the validity of message being spread so that it becomes less significant than a message spread in a real life, face-to-face communication?


Yes, considering the subculture isn't based on the internet and consists more than internet forums and people talking.



How can you know if anyone talking in the Internet forums is exposed to the subculture only through the Internet?


Because there isn't any evidence to the contrary. People exposed to it from the actual subculture, i.e. the music and things involved with the music don't question the link between the 2.



What makes you think that any person in the Internet forum isn't involved in the subculture? Can't a person be an active Internet forum user and be involved in the movement at the same time?


sure, but the ones that claim that you don't have to be involved in the musical aspect of it, aren't involved in the subculture and in some cases quite dislike hardcore in general.




When you say it like this it really sounds as an unsubstantiated allegation. My guess it doesn't only sound like that but it is.


How so? If you aren't involved in something that's actually happening outside of the internet, how are you at all in a position to discuss what that something is or isn't?



How is that? Who on earth can tell if they are or not? A gathering of people in real life can do that? What if we count people in the gatherings and figure out that those saying straightedge isn't linked with hardcore outnumber those who say it is? That would be an effective method and it would tell us more or less exactly who's right and who's wrong and how straight edge changed through the history and what it has become and what it is now at the current stage of its development.


This is the entire point that you either seem to be missing or ignoring. The people making these claims haven't had an effect on the subculture, because their involvement begins and ends on the internet. There is no evidence of this outside of the internet. the only place you are sure to find straight edge people is still hardcore shows, so how has it actually changed?




I've not seen yet any evidence of why straight edge cannot be separated from hardcore. I myself don't really like (I don't like it all to be honest) the idea of Indie or Hip-Hop Straight Edge but I don't know of any reason prohibiting or preventing straight edge from being separated from hardcore music and hardcore scene.

Is there any?

The simple fact of the matter is that when something changes and mutates and it becomes something new, that's exactly what it is. Something new. It ceases being what it was. It simply doesn't make sense for an Indie or hip hop based drug free movement to call itself straight edge, simply because of common roots. This is how/why new subcultures are created, and there is nothing preventing this from happening, but there doesn't appear to be any effort to make this a reality. If you took the old punk mindset and fashion and brought it into hiphop, would it still make sense to call it punk?

[Meteor]

You're saying that people think, straight edge does mean hardcore? Here it's totally the other way round I think.
Most people don't even know straight edge has it's origin in the hardcore-scene. They think Straight Edgers (or how do you call straight edge people?) are babbitts, and babbitts normally don't like loud music (to simplify it a bit), and most people associate straight edge not a bit with punk, 'cause many punks are alcoholics (I just mirror the popularly point of view!! And they don't even think about that there are exceptions who don't find it good).
So what I want to say, according where you come from, the points of view are different.

And I've never heard someone talking about the role of straight edge at the internet or something. Well, I got not so a lot of connections to regional Straight Edgers, so I don't really know what there opinion is about it. But I don't think that here the Internet is important to that.

[xsecx]

You're saying that people think, straight edge does mean hardcore? Here it's totally the other way round I think.
Most people don't even know straight edge has it's origin in the hardcore-scene. They think Straight Edgers (or how do you call straight edge people?) are babbitts, and babbitts normally don't like loud music (to simplify it a bit), and most people associate straight edge not a bit with punk, 'cause many punks are alcoholics (I just mirror the popularly point of view!! And they don't even think about that there are exceptions who don't find it good).
So what I want to say, according where you come from, the points of view are different.


I don't understand how people can know what straight edge is , but then be totally ignorant of it's history and where it's base is.



And I've never heard someone talking about the role of straight edge at the internet or something. Well, I got not so a lot of connections to regional Straight Edgers, so I don't really know what there opinion is about it. But I don't think that here the Internet is important to that.

Then how did you find out about straight edge?

[Meteor]

I don't understand how people can know what straight edge is , but then be totally ignorant of it's history and where it's base is.

That are just the people who aren't straight edge. They aren't interested in the history. They just know prejudices and what people who don't like the scene say. That's a big problem.




Then how did you find out about straight edge?

There were lots of different situations where I heard about it.

Hm... when I was younger I read a magazine... top of the pops I think... there was a story 'bout a guy who was straight edge. Already at that time, I thought that it was a good idea, not to take drugs and so on. But I didn't see any reason not to drink alcohol...

And some friends of mine used it as an abuse to say "ahh you're straight edge" to someone, for example if he didn't want to drink alcohol (most time it was me, but at this time I wasn't straight edge). I don't think they ever thought I could really become straight edge.

But that was long ago... There where a lot of occurrences after that, before I decided to be straight edge. During this time, I also heard things about straight edge, but I don't remember wherefrom! Hmm... seems Iike there are a lot of holes in my memory^^. Don't know from where I got more informations, but I'm totally sure it wasn't the internet! I just looked for straight edge at the internet right after I decided to be straight edge (that was how I found this Forum here) to find other people.
Hm... I think it's different here... I think nearly no one in Germany gets to know a scene just from the internet. Most time by friends, but I hadn't ever had straight edge friends. Where do you come from? Is it really that way, that people get to know a scene by (is it "by" or "from"?) the internet? That's totally new to me.

[xsecx]

That are just the people who aren't straight edge. They aren't interested in the history. They just know prejudices and what people who don't like the scene say. That's a big problem.


Even if they aren't, if they know the term, they know everything that goes along with that, and music is a huge part of it.




There were lots of different situations where I heard about it.

Hm... when I was younger I read a magazine... top of the pops I think... there was a story 'bout a guy who was straight edge. Already at that time, I thought that it was a good idea, not to take drugs and so on. But I didn't see any reason not to drink alcohol...

And some friends of mine used it as an abuse to say "ahh you're straight edge" to someone, for example if he didn't want to drink alcohol (most time it was me, but at this time I wasn't straight edge). I don't think they ever thought I could really become straight edge.

But that was long ago... There where a lot of occurrences after that, before I decided to be straight edge. During this time, I also heard things about straight edge, but I don't remember wherefrom! Hmm... seems Iike there are a lot of holes in my memory^^. Don't know from where I got more informations, but I'm totally sure it wasn't the internet! I just looked for straight edge at the internet right after I decided to be straight edge (that was how I found this Forum here) to find other people.
Hm... I think it's different here... I think nearly no one in Germany gets to know a scene just from the internet. Most time by friends, but I hadn't ever had straight edge friends. Where do you come from? Is it really that way, that people get to know a scene by (is it "by" or "from"?) the internet? That's totally new to me.

It sounds like a lot of it is use of a generic term, but not actually talking about straight edge though. Being straight edge is more than just not drinking and doing drugs.

[comicbookhero]

I have a couple questions. Firstly, is it necessary that I listen to hardcore/punk music in order for me to consider myself straight edge? Keep in mind I understand the history of the straightedge ideal and it's roots in the hardcore scene - but that's just not my sort of music. However, sXe is my sort of thing. My question is really just me wondering if I'd be considered, in a way, sort of a poser(for lack of a better word) if I don't listen to hardcore. Could someone answer this for me? I'm feeling a bit conflicted about it, because I have been reading that straightedge is a different experience for every person and it seems that it's starting to break out of the hardcore scene a little bit.

Thanks.

EDIT: I do, currently, consider myself someone who subscribes to the sXe dogma of not smoking, drinking, or having promiscuous sex. So yes, I consider myself straightedge - but without the hardcore music.

[D1988]

See below, I screwed up this post.

[D1988]

I have a couple questions. Firstly, is it necessary that I listen to hardcore/punk music in order for me to consider myself straight edge?

Anyone claiming straight edge I think should be involved with hardcore in some way shape or form.


Keep in mind I understand the history of the straightedge ideal and it's roots in the hardcore scene - but that's just not my sort of music. However, sXe is my sort of thing.

I do not see how straight edge could be your thing if hardcore is not? Hardcore is as much a part of straight edge as living your life drug free.


My question is really just me wondering if I'd be considered, in a way, sort of a poser(for lack of a better word) if I don't listen to hardcore. Could someone answer this for me?

The word poser does get flung around silly these days, but I would say you are drug free and not straight edge. It's awesome that you want to live your life drug free and you should be very proud of that. Other people might interpret that in there own way and call it what they want.


I'm feeling a bit conflicted about it, because I have been reading that straightedge is a different experience for every person and it seems that it's starting to break out of the hardcore scene a little bit.

Straight edge started in the hardcore scene and belongs only in the hardcore scene. I know there are maybe artists or bands out there who are "straight edge" that aren't involved or playing hardcore but to me they are not straight edge. I think this was the sort of thing you were refering to when you said "breaking out of the hardcore scene"?


EDIT: I do, currently, consider myself someone who subscribes to the sXe dogma of not smoking, drinking, or having promiscuous sex. So yes, I consider myself straightedge - but without the hardcore music.

You are living a drug free lifestyle which is great, I am sure you will see the positive sides of living this way.

[Meteor]

Even if they aren't, if they know the term, they know everything that goes along with that, and music is a huge part of it.

xD that's what you think but they don't do so. They just heard a bit abbout it and bad mouth it and they are not interested to know the history. People here are ignorant towards other scenes. And they just say "Straight Edgers don't drink and don't have sex and don't eat meat" and so on, and everybody believs that, and nobody questions it, so they don't like Straight Edgers 'cause they think they're kill-joys.



I do not see how straight edge could be your thing if hardcore is not? Hardcore is as much a part of straight edge as living your life drug free.

I think there are a lot of discriminatory thoughts here.
Straight Edge is a subculture accrued in the hardcore-/hardcorepunk-/punk-scene (to make clear it wasn't just hardcore), you're right. But what's the problem? The idea is all-important. I like hardcore, but I like Punk/Metal a bit better than Hardcore (I mean I listen to more Punk- or Metalbands than to Hardcorebands). And I see no reason why that should be a problem while being straight edge.

I don't wanna say that everyone who doesn't take drugs is straight edge. It goes more with it than just not to take drugs.
But if you make to many rules what you have to do if you are straight edge, sometime there will be so less persons who apply to that, and the straight edge scene may become very, very small (I say it so exaggerated to make you understand what I mean).
Nobody is entitled to decide what is necessary to be straight edge and when someone is sraight edge or not.

But to me the most important fact is:
You don't listen to hardcore (or do no drugs or... so on), 'cause you are straight edge,
you are straight edge 'cause you listen to hardcore (and don't do drugs and so on).

[xsecx]

xD that's what you think but they don't do so. They just heard a bit abbout it and bad mouth it and they are not interested to know the history. People here are ignorant towards other scenes. And they just say "Straight Edgers don't drink and don't have sex and don't eat meat" and so on, and everybody believs that, and nobody questions it, so they don't like Straight Edgers 'cause they think they're kill-joys.


That just illustrates the point that people are using the term incorrectly, and aren't actually talking about straight edge at all.



I think there are a lot of discriminatory thoughts here.
Straight Edge is a subculture accrued in the hardcore-/hardcorepunk-/punk-scene (to make clear it wasn't just hardcore), you're right. But what's the problem? The idea is all-important. I like hardcore, but I like Punk/Metal a bit better than Hardcore (I mean I listen to more Punk- or Metalbands than to Hardcorebands). And I see no reason why that should be a problem while being straight edge.
[
I don't wanna say that everyone who doesn't take drugs is straight edge. It goes more with it than just not to take drugs.
But if you make to many rules what you have to do if you are straight edge, sometime there will be so less persons who apply to that, and the straight edge scene may become very, very small (I say it so exaggerated to make you understand what I mean).
Nobody is entitled to decide what is necessary to be straight edge and when someone is sraight edge or not.


It's not a matter of discrimination, it's a matter of meeting criteria. Straight edge exists within hardcore. You say you don't want everyone who doesn't take drugs be straight edge, then what do you want? You're just talking about expanding the criteria to fit you and others, which doesn't really make sense. If it becomes seperate from the music, it'll be something else, but it just simply isn't there yet. If you look at straight edge, you look at the musical part of it, since it's what makes it unique and different. It's not really possible to talk about the subculture without talking about the musical side of it. If you don't like the musical side of it and aren't part of the subculture, why would you want to associate with something that doesn't really describe you?

[D1988]

But if you make to many rules what you have to do if you are straight edge, sometime there will be so less persons who apply to that, and the straight edge scene may become very, very small (I say it so exaggerated to make you understand what I mean).
Nobody is entitled to decide what is necessary to be straight edge and when someone is sraight edge or not.

I am not trying to identify or set rules on what people must do in order to be straight edge. I am basically just saying that, TO ME, someone who doesn't involve themselves with hardcore at all and lives drug free is not straight edge. That ain't a worlwide rule that all straight edge kids must abide, that is what I think personally.


If you look at straight edge, you look at the musical part of it, since it's what makes it unique and different. It's not really possible to talk about the subculture without talking about the musical side of it. If you don't like the musical side of it and aren't part of the subculture, why would you want to associate with something that doesn't really describe you?

Like Dusty said, it is hardcore that makes straight edge unique. If it wasn't for it's links to hardcore we would all be drug free kids, there would be nothing there to make it any different from being drug free would there?

[Meteor]

I think you missunderstood me. (But maybe I don't articulate right^^)


That just illustrates the point that people are using the term incorrectly, and aren't actually talking about straight edge at all.
I know that. Tell it to them.




You say you don't want everyone who doesn't take drugs be straight edge, then what do you want?

I don't want anybody to do anything.
I just said that I don't want to say that everyone who doesn't take drugs is straight edge.




If you don't like the musical side of it and aren't part of the subculture, why would you want to associate with something that doesn't really describe you?

I never said that I don't like the musical side. I'd like to go to hardcore-concerts. But it's not my favourite musical direction. What I wanted to say was that straight edge doesn't mean you have to listen only to hardcore and hardcore has to be your favourite musical direction. I see no problem, if someone likes other kinds of styles better than hardcore.
Well, it's a difference if someone, let's just say "thinks", he is straight edge, who listens to punk, or if someone thinks he is straight edge who listens to hip hop.




You're just talking about expanding the criteria to fit you and others, which doesn't really make sense.

I don't say it 'cause I want the criteria to fit me, I say that 'cause I feel confident that that could be good (I don't want to say the right, at least everyone maybe has to form his own opinion) criterias to define straight edge.




It's not a matter of discrimination, it's a matter of meeting criteria. Straight edge exists within hardcore.
(...)
If it becomes seperate from the music, it'll be something else, but it just simply isn't there yet. If you look at straight edge, you look at the musical part of it, since it's what makes it unique and different. It's not really possible to talk about the subculture without talking about the musical side of it.

I don't say the musical side wasn't important. I agree with you, if you say, that music played a big part at the formation (or development? not sure which word fits best) of straight edge and also today is important for the scene.



I am not trying to identify or set rules on what people must do in order to be straight edge. I am basically just saying that, TO ME, someone who doesn't involve themselves with hardcore at all and lives drug free is not straight edge. That ain't a worlwide rule that all straight edge kids must abide, that is what I think personally.

That's okay.

[xsecx]

I think you missunderstood me. (But maybe I don't articulate right^^)


I did, sorry.

[swallow]

There was no real rules, no real limits to be a sXe.
Straight Edge was and is about thinking about yourself and others. And the future.
It was about not drinking, not taking drugs and no one night stands.

Straight Edge is not only about hardcore music. It's about fighting the bad habbits and living the life.
Against people, killing themselves. And all religions was allright and respected.
sXe's ain't no hateful maniacs that think all people should be the same, Straight Edge is also about to think for yourself.

And i also think that people that ain't straight edgers should be respected, as well as straight edgers should, not hated, in my opinion, they are the only masters for their own life.

Dude. You're so speaking my language here.

[XDamonXHawkinsX]

the same way all subcultures are, by the people who are a part of it.

but the reason why most people frown at us edge folks is because some other edgers just go around fucking around and giving us a bad name.

[chadfitzy]

which can be said for a lot of things though to be to extreme, anarchist, muslims, christians, communist, almost anything because in everything someones done something to offend antoher person.

[XDamonXHawkinsX]

well in my opinion i do respect people that are'nt straightedge and me im not like one of those fsu or overagressive hardliners but when i hear people glorifying weed and drugs and drinking it does irritate me greatly considering i have had many personal problems with my family doing drugs and smoking and drinking but rarely do i ever go around fucking people up because they do what they do.

[chadfitzy]

well in my opinion i do respect people that are'nt straightedge and me im not like one of those fsu or overagressive hardliners but when i hear people glorifying weed and drugs and drinking it does irritate me greatly considering i have had many personal problems with my family doing drugs and smoking and drinking but rarely do i ever go around fucking people up because they do what they do.

haha, thats completly opposite for me. since its happened, and still dose, in my family, i tend to just brush it all off and dont take a second mind to it.