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Mallrat
02-27-2006, 09:56 AM
Hey guys, newbie to the board. Found this a couple of days ago and figured it's a cool way to talk to other people like me.

So, a few things about me...

I found about Straight Edge while watching pro wrestling, strangely enough. I went to a show my freshman year of high school for an independent promotion called Jersey Championship Wrestling and they were having a tournament. One wrestler I was following throughout the tournament because he was really impressive was this guy named C.M. Punk. He had a great intro song (A.F.I. Miseria Cantare) and cool X's on his wrist tape across his hands. All the while I was wondering what they were for and what the words "straight edge" tattooed across his stomach meant. So after the show I happened to catch him backstage and asked him what it was all about, and he explained Straight Edge for me. Real nice guy. (And for any pro wrestling fans, in my opinion, one of the best out there today)

After learning all this, I realized, "Wow, I've been straight edge all my life and didn't realize it." And when I learned that there was a way that I could express it, I felt even more apart of a greater cause.

I had always felt left out, not fit to be apart of any social cliques. It felt awkward not to be involved with anyone while trying to be unique at the same time. I didn't like to drink. I didn't want to do drugs. I had no intention of treating sex like it was a hobby. I didn't know where to look to. When I finally found that there were people like me out there as well, who happened to have a lot in common with me, I felt better about being who I was and who I am today.

xsecx
02-27-2006, 10:16 AM
Hey guys, newbie to the board. Found this a couple of days ago and figured it's a cool way to talk to other people like me.

So, a few things about me...

I found about Straight Edge while watching pro wrestling, strangely enough. I went to a show my freshman year of high school for an independent promotion called Jersey Championship Wrestling and they were having a tournament. One wrestler I was following throughout the tournament because he was really impressive was this guy named C.M. Punk. He had a great intro song (A.F.I. Miseria Cantare) and cool X's on his wrist tape across his hands. All the while I was wondering what they were for and what the words "straight edge" tattooed across his stomach meant. So after the show I happened to catch him backstage and asked him what it was all about, and he explained Straight Edge for me. Real nice guy. (And for any pro wrestling fans, in my opinion, one of the best out there today)

After learning all this, I realized, "Wow, I've been straight edge all my life and didn't realize it." And when I learned that there was a way that I could express it, I felt even more apart of a greater cause.

I had always felt left out, not fit to be apart of any social cliques. It felt awkward not to be involved with anyone while trying to be unique at the same time. I didn't like to drink. I didn't want to do drugs. I had no intention of treating sex like it was a hobby. I didn't know where to look to. When I finally found that there were people like me out there as well, who happened to have a lot in common with me, I felt better about being who I was and who I am today.

Welcome. The real concern I have with people coming into things via CM Punk is that they may not be getting a full picture of what straight edge is, so I'm a little curious as to how he described it to you and what he said straight edge was.

rodrigo
02-27-2006, 10:22 AM
...and on that note, we cue the music...

Mallrat
02-27-2006, 10:36 AM
He just flat out told me, "No drugs, no drinking, and no casual sex." These were things I had always thought of anyways, so I realized that inside I was always Straight Edge, I just didn't have anything to call it by.

xsecx
02-27-2006, 10:38 AM
He just flat out told me, "No drugs, no drinking, and no casual sex." These were things I had always thought of anyways, so I realized that inside I was always Straight Edge, I just didn't have anything to call it by.

that's what I was afraid of. that's part of what straight edge is, but not all of it. This history of it does a pretty good job of outlining what edge is and what's it's about. http://www.straightedge.com/whatissxe.html

Mallrat
02-27-2006, 11:21 AM
Oh, dude, totally told me about Minor Threat, the meaning of the X, and a lot more. I just gave the abriged version. Hope that clears things up. I know it's not as popular as it once was, but hopefully this culture won't die.

xsecx
02-27-2006, 11:28 AM
Oh, dude, totally told me about Minor Threat, the meaning of the X, and a lot more. I just gave the abriged version. Hope that clears things up. I know it's not as popular as it once was, but hopefully this culture won't die.

the thing that always worries me about it is that from other people who have come into it via wrestling is that they don't understand how important the music side of it is, that it's more than just a series of beliefs and that sometimes the message gets muddied, ie. you thinking that straight edge means no casual sex.

Mallrat
02-27-2006, 11:40 AM
Well maybe I got that part wrong but I do know a lot about the music side of it. I'm a big fan of punk rock and hardcore and as far as the sex thing goes, I know from many others telling me that it's basically something you reserve for a committed relationship which I do with my girlfriend who I am very committed to.

Oh, and thanks for that link to the website about the history. Now I've got something to give to others if they want to know about it.

xsecx
02-27-2006, 11:45 AM
Well maybe I got that part wrong but I do know a lot about the music side of it. I'm a big fan of punk rock and hardcore and as far as the sex thing goes, I know from many others telling me that it's basically something you reserve for a committed relationship which I do with my girlfriend who I am very committed to.

Oh, and thanks for that link to the website about the history. Now I've got something to give to others if they want to know about it.

what edge bands are you into?

and as far as the sex thing goes, if out of step was never written we wouldn't be having this conversation. There's a massive amount of misunderstanding about sex and how it relates to straight edge. THe reality is that with exception of out of step, there's just not very many references to sex within straight edge. So people just go back to that one song because a lot of the time, that's where their knowledge of straight edge begins and ends with Minor Threat. Problem being that there is 20 years of history now between that band, Ian rejecting what straight edge has become, and now.

stepinsideissue
02-28-2006, 10:50 AM
Hey guys, newbie to the board. Found this a couple of days ago and figured it's a cool way to talk to other people like me.

So, a few things about me...

I found about Straight Edge while watching pro wrestling, strangely enough. I went to a show my freshman year of high school for an independent promotion called Jersey Championship Wrestling and they were having a tournament. One wrestler I was following throughout the tournament because he was really impressive was this guy named C.M. Punk. He had a great intro song (A.F.I. Miseria Cantare) and cool X's on his wrist tape across his hands. All the while I was wondering what they were for and what the words "straight edge" tattooed across his stomach meant. So after the show I happened to catch him backstage and asked him what it was all about, and he explained Straight Edge for me. Real nice guy. (And for any pro wrestling fans, in my opinion, one of the best out there today)

After learning all this, I realized, "Wow, I've been straight edge all my life and didn't realize it." And when I learned that there was a way that I could express it, I felt even more apart of a greater cause.

I had always felt left out, not fit to be apart of any social cliques. It felt awkward not to be involved with anyone while trying to be unique at the same time. I didn't like to drink. I didn't want to do drugs. I had no intention of treating sex like it was a hobby. I didn't know where to look to. When I finally found that there were people like me out there as well, who happened to have a lot in common with me, I felt better about being who I was and who I am today.


I just have 1 question about your post. How is it you have been sXe all your life.

Gia De Los Muertos
02-28-2006, 02:52 PM
I'm waiting for the crucification now, but I am a newbie, but not in a good way. I have been into the Punk-rock & hardcore scene since I was 11 years old. But unlike the rest of you, I have not been clean or sober for a very long time. I started smoking at 10, drinking at 12, and cocaine when I was 15. Yes, I was very self-distructive. I know that there are alot of haters out there against the straight-edge scene, but I have never felt that way. Even in my darkest hour, I always looked up to those with the self-respect to stay clean and sober.

I have stopped doing all drugs, drinking and promiscious sex. I am having alot of difficulty with people about this, but those are people I am cutting out of my life. It seems like people that were family to you begin to hate you for bettering yourself, well looks like I can live a long life without ever having to worry about them.

My life has been a living hell that I put myself into and I'm ready to be the strongest I have ever been and walk on my own two feet for once. With the help of a couple old straight-edge friends and my family, I am clean and sober and will never return no matter how difficult it becomes.

I have lost too many friends to cocaine and booze, and hurt myself too badly. My ex- best friend is my anti-drug. At almost 25 years old, she steals money from the rich grandparents she lives with to snort 2 and 3 grams of coke and buy 750 mL of whiskey every night. I stopped being her friend hoping it would make her stop, she went on a rampage. Then she went missing for 5 days. I got calls from her family wondering where she was and I was sickened. I called her cell phone repeatedly and left messages crying and begging her just to let me know she was okay. Then on day 5, she just walked into her grandparent's home barefoot and in the clothes from the last time they saw her, ignored everyone, took a shower and went back out to party. I guess people don't care that that shit destroys everyone around you.

I know alot of you are very devout, and I know how much pride you have, believe me on that one. I got all the respect for you old-schoolers as much as you new-school kids. It was very hard for me to write what I have, so no disrespect to anyone,but these are steps I got to take. No, I am not doing this JUST to sober up. The punk and hardcore scene are very important to me, they are my life. I have tattoos that I cannot cover for a reason. At this point though, I got to give back and give the kids someone to look upto and not down to. It hurts to have to face your mistakes, but no pain, no gain right?

xsecx
02-28-2006, 02:57 PM
I'm waiting for the crucification now, but I am a newbie, but not in a good way. I have been into the Punk-rock & hardcore scene since I was 11 years old. But unlike the rest of you, I have not been clean or sober for a very long time. I started smoking at 10, drinking at 12, and cocaine when I was 15. Yes, I was very self-distructive. I know that there are alot of haters out there against the straight-edge scene, but I have never felt that way. Even in my darkest hour, I always looked up to those with the self-respect to stay clean and sober.

I have stopped doing all drugs, drinking and promiscious sex. I am having alot of difficulty with people about this, but those are people I am cutting out of my life. It seems like people that were family to you begin to hate you for bettering yourself, well looks like I can live a long life without ever having to worry about them.

My life has been a living hell that I put myself into and I'm ready to be the strongest I have ever been and walk on my own two feet for once. With the help of a couple old straight-edge friends and my family, I am clean and sober and will never return no matter how difficult it becomes.

I have lost too many friends to cocaine and booze, and hurt myself too badly. My ex- best friend is my anti-drug. At almost 25 years old, she steals money from the rich grandparents she lives with to snort 2 and 3 grams of coke and buy 750 mL of whiskey every night. I stopped being her friend hoping it would make her stop, she went on a rampage. Then she went missing for 5 days. I got calls from her family wondering where she was and I was sickened. I called her cell phone repeatedly and left messages crying and begging her just to let me know she was okay. Then on day 5, she just walked into her grandparent's home barefoot and in the clothes from the last time they saw her, ignored everyone, took a shower and went back out to party. I guess people don't care that that shit destroys everyone around you.

I know alot of you are very devout, and I know how much pride you have, believe me on that one. I got all the respect for you old-schoolers as much as you new-school kids. It was very hard for me to write what I have, so no disrespect to anyone,but these are steps I got to take. No, I am not doing this JUST to sober up. The punk and hardcore scene are very important to me, they are my life. I have tattoos that I cannot cover for a reason. At this point though, I got to give back and give the kids someone to look upto and not down to. It hurts to have to face your mistakes, but no pain, no gain right?

why would anyone crucify you? seems to me like you've got your shit together and know the score.

Gia De Los Muertos
02-28-2006, 03:06 PM
Yeah, but sometimes it can come off the wrong way. Like a scene hopper. Just didn't want to come off as disrespectful, but thank you. Even a little support goes a long way.

xsecx
02-28-2006, 03:08 PM
Yeah, but sometimes it can come off the wrong way. Like a scene hopper. Just didn't want to come off as disrespectful, but thank you. Even a little support goes a long way.

nah don't worry about it. people make choices all the time. yeah it takes time to show commitment, but if you're doubting people from the beginning it doesn't get you anywhere.

Gia De Los Muertos
02-28-2006, 11:13 PM
commitment is the most difficult and rewarding part.

atXdawnXweXburn
03-01-2006, 01:49 PM
hey. im jeremiah, and i figure i may as well give my introduction. i've only been edge for about a month, and i am still in the dark on a couple things. like the fact i have to take medicine for acid reflux and allergies/asthma. breaking edge? i dont think so from what i read.

anywho

my father is an alcoholic, my mother is addicted to meth, smokes weed, and pops xanacs (sp?) like there is no fucking tomorrow. i was kicked out of my home at 15, and have been wandering around, living with friends ever since. in that time i started smoking cigarettes and weed, and drinking heavily. i also experimented with other shit (meth, acid, cocaine) but didnt like any of that at all.

then i got engaged.

my fiancee-who is not edge, but leads a drug free lifestyle-urged me to quit smoking. i did, and felt great. then some friends of mine who are in a local sXc band wanted me to try being edge. i agreed, and i just wanted to say wow. i hope chad and josh are reading this, because i have never felt so happy. and hopefully, with a support system of people here and my sXe friends in town... i hope to never break.

--Jeremiah

collin
03-01-2006, 03:48 PM
awesome dude. as for the medicine, i don't think you are, but xsecx would know for sure. im new at this myself, and i've learned that if you've got a question, he's usually got a good answer. congrats on the engagement.

SgtD
03-01-2006, 04:47 PM
hey. im jeremiah, and i figure i may as well give my introduction. i've only been edge for about a month, and i am still in the dark on a couple things. like the fact i have to take medicine for acid reflux and allergies/asthma. breaking edge? i dont think so from what i read.

Definitely not, sxe stands only against recreational drug use. If you need pharmacy, then take it, that's not an edgebreak. It would be stupid not to take them, if they are necessary.

xbatmanx
03-03-2006, 04:56 PM
what edge bands are you into?

and as far as the sex thing goes, if out of step was never written we wouldn't be having this conversation. There's a massive amount of misunderstanding about sex and how it relates to straight edge. THe reality is that with exception of out of step, there's just not very many references to sex within straight edge. So people just go back to that one song because a lot of the time, that's where their knowledge of straight edge begins and ends with Minor Threat. Problem being that there is 20 years of history now between that band, Ian rejecting what straight edge has become, and now.
I saw an interview with Ian somewhere saying that by "don't fuck" he meant just that. Casual, promiscuous sex. I think people choose to omit/neglect that side of it to justify their own lifestyles and still be sxe. I wish I knew where to find that article, it was a while ago.
Also, by way of introduction, I'm James. I'm 25. I'm from Philly. I'm vegan as well.

xsecx
03-03-2006, 05:08 PM
I saw an interview with Ian somewhere saying that by "don't fuck" he meant just that. Casual, promiscuous sex. I think people choose to omit/neglect that side of it to justify their own lifestyles and still be sxe. I wish I knew where to find that article, it was a while ago.
Also, by way of introduction, I'm James. I'm 25. I'm from Philly. I'm vegan as well.

in that same article they said a bunch of shit that doesn't hold true now

TV: So what effect has your music had on people?
Jeff: I think it's blown their minds (laughs x 10)
Ian: Like Straight Edge, people have taken it to extreme...as far as I'm concerned all we did was put out an idea...if people wanna hear it as preaching if that's what they want. Staight Edge to me is someone who is alert enough to benefit from what he or she is doing...
Lyle: The drug and alcohol is only one side of it anyway, it's alot more than that there are other things that can sidetrack you...
Ian: That's what "don't fuck" means...alot of these people think that to be straight edge you can't drink, smoke or have sex and that's silly...what the don't fuck line is that the whole getting laid and getting head thing..
Lyle: Living for sex.
Ian: Following your penis around is fucking people up more than anything, and Detroit seems to have quite a few of the spread leg slut things running around (mo laughs)

xbatmanx
03-03-2006, 05:11 PM
in that same article they said a bunch of shit that doesn't hold true now

TV: So what effect has your music had on people?
Jeff: I think it's blown their minds (laughs x 10)
Ian: Like Straight Edge, people have taken it to extreme...as far as I'm concerned all we did was put out an idea...if people wanna hear it as preaching if that's what they want. Staight Edge to me is someone who is alert enough to benefit from what he or she is doing...
Lyle: The drug and alcohol is only one side of it anyway, it's alot more than that there are other things that can sidetrack you...
Ian: That's what "don't fuck" means...alot of these people think that to be straight edge you can't drink, smoke or have sex and that's silly...what the don't fuck line is that the whole getting laid and getting head thing..
Lyle: Living for sex.
Ian: Following your penis around is fucking people up more than anything, and Detroit seems to have quite a few of the spread leg slut things running around (mo laughs)
Oh awesome. Is that interview online somewhere? And when you say it says stuff that doesn't hold true now do you mean evolution of sxe or people taking liberties and translating it into what they want it to be?

xsecx
03-03-2006, 05:15 PM
Oh awesome. Is that interview online somewhere? And when you say it says stuff that doesn't hold true now do you mean evolution of sxe or people taking liberties and translating it into what they want it to be?

yeah it's at
http://www.30underdc.com/bands/minorthreat/minort_tg20.html

stuff that doesn't hold true is the same line you remembered.
Ian: That's what "don't fuck" means...alot of these people think that to be straight edge you can't drink, smoke or have sex and that's silly
according to this he thinks occasional stuff is fine. which we all agree it isn't.

xbatmanx
03-03-2006, 05:19 PM
yeah it's at
http://www.30underdc.com/bands/minorthreat/minort_tg20.html

stuff that doesn't hold true is the same line you remembered.
Ian: That's what "don't fuck" means...alot of these people think that to be straight edge you can't drink, smoke or have sex and that's silly
according to this he thinks occasional stuff is fine. which we all agree it isn't.
Oh see I always took that to mean no promiscuous sex. I think no sex at all is silly. But I think you need to wait until you're having it for the right reasons for it to be ok. Not just screwing every girl you meet. Am I wrong on this?

mouseman004
03-03-2006, 05:28 PM
in that same article they said a bunch of shit that doesn't hold true now

TV: So what effect has your music had on people?
Jeff: I think it's blown their minds (laughs x 10)
Ian: Like Straight Edge, people have taken it to extreme...as far as I'm concerned all we did was put out an idea...if people wanna hear it as preaching if that's what they want. Staight Edge to me is someone who is alert enough to benefit from what he or she is doing...
Lyle: The drug and alcohol is only one side of it anyway, it's alot more than that there are other things that can sidetrack you...
Ian: That's what "don't fuck" means...alot of these people think that to be straight edge you can't drink, smoke or have sex and that's silly...what the don't fuck line is that the whole getting laid and getting head thing..
Lyle: Living for sex.
Ian: Following your penis around is fucking people up more than anything, and Detroit seems to have quite a few of the spread leg slut things running around (mo laughs)

Jesus christ, how do you do it, the man just mentions an interview he saw with Ian years ago and you know exactly what he is talking about, somebody brings up a debate and you are pulling facts and theories out of nowhere..... I'm not sucking up here....im actually asking, how the hell do you do it lol

xsecx
03-03-2006, 05:34 PM
Oh see I always took that to mean no promiscuous sex. I think no sex at all is silly. But I think you need to wait until you're having it for the right reasons for it to be ok. Not just screwing every girl you meet. Am I wrong on this?

it's not the sex part that I'm talking about.

xbatmanx
03-03-2006, 05:37 PM
it's not the sex part that I'm talking about. oh you mean occasionally drinking and smoking and whatnot? i definitely didn't even catch that.
and definitely gotta give you props for hooking that interview up right quick.

xsecx
03-03-2006, 05:52 PM
oh you mean occasionally drinking and smoking and whatnot? i definitely didn't even catch that.
and definitely gotta give you props for hooking that interview up right quick.

yeah. ian's opinions on stuff definitely don't reflect what straight edge actually became.

xbatmanx
03-03-2006, 06:28 PM
yeah. ian's opinions on stuff definitely don't reflect what straight edge actually became.
I don't think Ian himself drinks, smokes or does drugs so maybe what he was getting at is he didn't mean to tell other people what to do, as long as they are responsible.

xsecx
03-03-2006, 08:53 PM
I don't think Ian himself drinks, smokes or does drugs so maybe what he was getting at is he didn't mean to tell other people what to do, as long as they are responsible.

point is still moot. straight edge has turned into something completely different from what ian thought it would/should. the reality is that sex just isn't apart of edge now and isn't reflected in the music.

xbatmanx
03-03-2006, 09:17 PM
point is still moot. straight edge has turned into something completely different from what ian thought it would/should. the reality is that sex just isn't apart of edge now and isn't reflected in the music.
So how does sxe evolve then? and who decides when/how it evolves? this seems contradictory to the point that some in the christianity thread are trying to make that the "rules" of straight edge are set and no one can change them.

xsecx
03-03-2006, 09:25 PM
So how does sxe evolve then? and who decides when/how it evolves? this seems contradictory to the point that some in the christianity thread are trying to make that the "rules" of straight edge are set and no one can change them.

it's a collective decision. the people involved have dictated the definition. I don't see how this is contradictory about anything, since the issue with the christianity thread is about agreed core beliefs of what the people involved in straight edge believe. now if everyone involved in straight edge agreed that drinking alcohol is fine, then the issue with christianity goes away. however until that happens, there is a logical paradox. Unless you want to try and explain how it doesn't and how it's still the same as it was in 1981. Or how sex is a prevalent part of edge.

xbatmanx
03-06-2006, 06:42 PM
it's a collective decision. the people involved have dictated the definition. I don't see how this is contradictory about anything, since the issue with the christianity thread is about agreed core beliefs of what the people involved in straight edge believe. now if everyone involved in straight edge agreed that drinking alcohol is fine, then the issue with christianity goes away. however until that happens, there is a logical paradox. Unless you want to try and explain how it doesn't and how it's still the same as it was in 1981. Or how sex is a prevalent part of edge.
i just saw this, i didn't realize i had another argument going on with you.
i would like a list of the members of straight edge please, so that i may bring up some issues i have. Do you know how ridiculous you sound? You act as if there are meetings or something. Most of my straight edge friends have been edge since the late 80s, go to shows, and have been a part of the scene ever since. They would find fault with a lot of what you say. Some of them would say that you are wrong for eating chocolate at all. Some of them would say you can drink a cup of coffee if you want. Some of them would say you can't have promiscuous sex. Are they any less a member of straight edge or maybe they just missed the memo about things that certain people decided were dogma. You have to admit that the straight edge scene is very cliqueish and just because you're clique thinks it is the be-all and end-all of straight edge doesn't mean everyone else has to listen. stop dictating and making people feel like they don't belong and just have a good time with the other drug free kids.

xsecx
03-06-2006, 07:16 PM
i just saw this, i didn't realize i had another argument going on with you.
i would like a list of the members of straight edge please, so that i may bring up some issues i have. Do you know how ridiculous you sound? You act as if there are meetings or something. Most of my straight edge friends have been edge since the late 80s, go to shows, and have been a part of the scene ever since. They would find fault with a lot of what you say. Some of them would say that you are wrong for eating chocolate at all. Some of them would say you can drink a cup of coffee if you want. Some of them would say you can't have promiscuous sex. Are they any less a member of straight edge or maybe they just missed the memo about things that certain people decided were dogma. You have to admit that the straight edge scene is very cliqueish and just because you're clique thinks it is the be-all and end-all of straight edge doesn't mean everyone else has to listen. stop dictating and making people feel like they don't belong and just have a good time with the other drug free kids.

there's another argument that you dropped too.

so straight edge isn't a defined thing?

xbatmanx
03-06-2006, 07:25 PM
there's another argument that you dropped too.

so straight edge isn't a defined thing?
who defines it? who makes the one single definition of it that stands above any other definition? my point, and it has been my point in every argument i've had with you is that there is a rough definition of sxe. no drugs, drinking or alcohol. how you choose to interpret that is a personal choice.

xsecx
03-06-2006, 07:31 PM
who defines it? who makes the one single definition of it that stands above any other definition? my point, and it has been my point in every argument i've had with you is that there is a rough definition of sxe. no drugs, drinking or alcohol. how you choose to interpret that is a personal choice.

how can you personally interpret no drugs,no drinking and no smoking? And how is there any additional defintion there? So on one hand you're trying to tell me there is no defintion and then say there is?

xbatmanx
03-06-2006, 08:31 PM
how can you personally interpret no drugs,no drinking and no smoking? And how is there any additional defintion there? So on one hand you're trying to tell me there is no defintion and then say there is?
No, nevermind you're completely right. Straight edge was originally defined by Ian Mackaye and then changed by a collective decision by some people who you can't name. But rest-assured it was a collective decision. Although I don't remember being informed that there was a decision to be made. I'll ask my friends but I don't think they were informed of a collective decision either.
I am done. I do not concede, I just don't care anymore, it's not going to change anything. For as long as I can remember there were people like you and people like me in straight edge and there will continue to be. It's amazing how one can get so caught up in debates on this thing. I have spent so much time on here in the past few days hehe.

kelly
03-06-2006, 08:32 PM
how can you personally interpret no drugs,no drinking and no smoking? And how is there any additional defintion there? So on one hand you're trying to tell me there is no defintion and then say there is?

Well, you have to admit that the word "drugs" is somewhat open for interpretation.

xsecx
03-06-2006, 08:38 PM
No, nevermind you're completely right. Straight edge was originally defined by Ian Mackaye and then changed by a collective decision by some people who you can't name. But rest-assured it was a collective decision. Although I don't remember being informed that there was a decision to be made. I'll ask my friends but I don't think they were informed of a collective decision either.
I am done. I do not concede, I just don't care anymore, it's not going to change anything. For as long as I can remember there were people like you and people like me in straight edge and there will continue to be. It's amazing how one can get so caught up in debates on this thing. I have spent so much time on here in the past few days hehe.

can you seriously not actually answer what's posed to you rather than going on long irrelevant rants?

xsecx
03-06-2006, 08:39 PM
Well, you have to admit that the word "drugs" is somewhat open for interpretation.

which is why you frame it with recreational and the problem is solved.

xbatmanx
03-06-2006, 08:54 PM
can you seriously not actually answer what's posed to you rather than going on long irrelevant rants?
What about you not answering questions? Who made these collective decisions? There must be some deciding body of straight edge cause when this collective decision was made I wasn't informed and no one I know was either. You're completely ignoring how ridiculous that sounds. I'm just really tired of arguing these petty little things. I was tired of it in the 90s and I'm tired of it now. Maybe I thought that just because I grew up everyone else did. I guess some things never change. You should post your rules to being straight edge in a thread or something so someone like me doesn't mistakenly end up here.

xsecx
03-06-2006, 08:58 PM
What about you not answering questions? Who made these collective decisions? There must be some deciding body of straight edge cause when this collective decision was made I wasn't informed and no one I know was either. You're completely ignoring how ridiculous that sounds. I'm just really tired of arguing these petty little things. I was tired of it in the 90s and I'm tired of it now. Maybe I thought that just because I grew up everyone else did. I guess some things never change. You should post your rules to being straight edge in a thread or something so someone like me doesn't mistakenly end up here.

so straight edge has a defintion that everyone involved in it agrees on, but you somehow want me to explain it to you? how are any movements defined except by the people included in it. now how is the ridiculous or anything else other than how it actually happened?

mouseman004
03-06-2006, 09:58 PM
which is why you frame it with recreational and the problem is solved.

who frames it?

xsecx
03-06-2006, 10:00 PM
who frames it?

everyone involved. unless you can find me a vast majority of people that want to frame drugs as something that wouldn't be covered by recreational drugs.

mouseman004
03-06-2006, 10:10 PM
everyone involved. unless you can find me a vast majority of people that want to frame drugs as something that wouldn't be covered by recreational drugs.


On that note though, I could probably find as many sxe kids who are christian, as those who say you cant be both.....and i realise your mentioning the conflicting beleifs but im just saying, if its a collective decision, then there is no collective agreement that you cant be both christian and straight edge

mouseman004
03-06-2006, 10:10 PM
On that note though, I could probably find as many sxe kids who are christian, as those who say you cant be both.....and i realise your mentioning the conflicting beleifs but im just saying, if its a collective decision, then there is no collective agreement that you cant be both christian and straight edge


my bad, wrong thread..but you get what im saying lol

xbatmanx
03-06-2006, 10:15 PM
everyone involved. unless you can find me a vast majority of people that want to frame drugs as something that wouldn't be covered by recreational drugs.
This is what I'm saying. I'm involved. I was involved as far back as 94. My friends have been involved just as long, and some longer. We weren't involved in any decision-making. So maybe since technically everyone wasn't involved in any decisions some of your definitions are null. We need to have a do-over with EVERYONE involved. Cause we're still stuck back where promiscuous sex was a part of straight edge. No one told us otherwise. They must've whispered that one in your ear, Dusty. And stop pulling me back into these arguments. Haha!

xvunderx
03-06-2006, 10:19 PM
On that note though, I could probably find as many sxe kids who are christian, as those who say you cant be both.....and i realise your mentioning the conflicting beleifs but im just saying, if its a collective decision, then there is no collective agreement that you cant be both christian and straight edge

Yeah but thats not an edge question it's a personal beliefs question. if you believe God is perfect, you can't believe he is also wrong. Edge doesn't have a no Christian rule, but the two just don't jive.

xsecx
03-06-2006, 10:20 PM
This is what I'm saying. I'm involved. I was involved as far back as 94. My friends have been involved just as long, and some longer. We weren't involved in any decision-making. So maybe since technically everyone wasn't involved in any decisions some of your definitions are null. We need to have a do-over with EVERYONE involved. Cause we're still stuck back where promiscuous sex was a part of straight edge. No one told us otherwise. They must've whispered that one in your ear, Dusty. And stop pulling me back into these arguments. Haha!

wait, you just told me a rough defintion of what straight edge is and you didn't include promiscous sex. so if you weren't involved in any decisions, then why didn't you include i when asked? Things move and evolve through time and through the perceptions and actions of those involved. I notice you're not actually saying that isn't the case. Especially since when straight edge started it was more about moderation and it wasn't until youth of today came around that things really did gel into what it is now. What definition of mine is null exactly?

kelly
03-06-2006, 10:20 PM
\ Cause we're still stuck back where promiscuous sex was a part of straight edge. No one told us otherwise. They must've whispered that one in your ear, Dusty.
It's all part of a conspiracy to keep sXe kids from having too much sex and making little sXe babies, I think.

mouseman004
03-06-2006, 10:22 PM
Yeah but thats not an edge question it's a personal beliefs question. if you believe God is perfect, you can't believe he is also wrong. Edge doesn't have a no Christian rule, but the two just don't jive.


Yeah, i understand that point. however, i myself do not follow religion, so i do not know any of the specifics, but the majority of devout catholics i have talked to have said that you do not have to beleive god is perfect in order to be christian, you just have to beleive him to be your lord and saviour, and i realise that dusty keeps disagreeing, but from the looks of it, thats a split issue.

xsecx
03-06-2006, 10:24 PM
On that note though, I could probably find as many sxe kids who are christian, as those who say you cant be both.....and i realise your mentioning the conflicting beleifs but im just saying, if its a collective decision, then there is no collective agreement that you cant be both christian and straight edge

sure if enough people got involved, co-opted the term and changed it. but that's currently not the case. also there doesn't have to be a collected agreement. I don't know why this is so hard for you kids to understand. The issue is with christian doctorine and beliefs conflicting amongst themselves and not straight edge.

xsecx
03-06-2006, 10:25 PM
Yeah, i understand that point. however, i myself do not follow religion, so i do not know any of the specifics, but the majority of devout catholics i have talked to have said that you do not have to beleive god is perfect in order to be christian, you just have to beleive him to be your lord and saviour, and i realise that dusty keeps disagreeing, but from the looks of it, thats a split issue.

now logically think about that statement for a second. how could god not be perfect? god defines right and wrong and perfection, so how could anything god do be considered wrong and who would be able to judge him?

xbatmanx
03-06-2006, 10:26 PM
wait, you just told me a rough defintion of what straight edge is and you didn't include promiscous sex. so if you weren't involved in any decisions, then why didn't you include i when asked? Things move and evolve through time and through the perceptions and actions of those involved. I notice you're not actually saying that isn't the case. Especially since when straight edge started it was more about moderation and it wasn't until youth of today came around that things really did gel into what it is now. What definition of mine is null exactly?
the fact that promiscuous sex is ok is null. because me and my friends weren't there when that was changed.

xsecx
03-06-2006, 10:28 PM
the fact that promiscuous sex is ok is null. because me and my friends weren't there when that was changed.

you should have followed that up with a nanny nanny boo boo, it would have been fitting.

xbatmanx
03-07-2006, 11:26 AM
you should have followed that up with a nanny nanny boo boo, it would have been fitting.
Oh good argument. I'm not sure if that's a step up or a step down from your "it was a collective decision made by everyone in straight edge" argument. You're a joke.

xsecx
03-07-2006, 11:30 AM
Oh good argument. I'm not sure if that's a step up or a step down from your "it was a collective decision made by everyone in straight edge" argument. You're a joke.

I'm a joke because you can't actually make a decent argument? Ok genius, how is straight edge defined then if it not by the people who are apart of it? Or any movment for that matter that doesn't have a "leader" . Unless you point to a leader who defines things? Ian MacKaye?

xbatmanx
03-07-2006, 11:48 AM
I'm a joke because you can't actually make a decent argument? Ok genius, how is straight edge defined then if it not by the people who are apart of it? Or any movment for that matter that doesn't have a "leader" . Unless you point to a leader who defines things? Ian MacKaye?
well since straight edge doesn't have a governing body of people to make executive decisions, nor does it have any kind of elections, and it's kind of a loose-knit community that spans the globe i don't understand how there is one definition and one definition only of straight edge. yes, the straight edge can evolve, but it doesn't evolve the same for everyone. and if people didn't understand that, then you'd have quite a few people claiming that even you, the mighty Dusty, be all and end all of straight edge, is not edge because you believe that fucking is ok or because you eat chocolate. there needs to be a margin of error for flexibility. because maybe this group of sxe kids over here, doesn't talk to these kids over here or whatever, sxe evolves differently for everyone. or doesn't evolve at all from minor threat days for some people. who knows? who cares? i'm not trying to disprove anyone's personal definition of straight edge, but i'm debunking the dogmatic tendencies people seem to have when it comes to straight edge or even veganism for that matter, or anything along those lines. I don't know, maybe you're just bitter cause you're one of the older guys and like me, you've seen so many people sell out. but you'd think that would make you a little more accepting of those who take on the overall straight edge philosophy as their own. even if it differs from your definition a little.

xsecx
03-07-2006, 11:54 AM
well since straight edge doesn't have a governing body of people to make executive decisions, nor does it have any kind of elections, and it's kind of a loose-knit community that spans the globe i don't understand how there is one definition and one definition only of straight edge. yes, the straight edge can evolve, but it doesn't evolve the same for everyone. and if people didn't understand that, then you'd have quite a few people claiming that even you, the mighty Dusty, be all and end all of straight edge, is not edge because you believe that fucking is ok or because you eat chocolate. there needs to be a margin of error for flexibility. because maybe this group of sxe kids over here, doesn't talk to these kids over here or whatever, sxe evolves differently for everyone. or doesn't evolve at all from minor threat days for some people. who knows? who cares? i'm not trying to disprove anyone's personal definition of straight edge, but i'm debunking the dogmatic tendencies people seem to have when it comes to straight edge or even veganism for that matter, or anything along those lines. I don't know, maybe you're just bitter cause you're one of the older guys and like me, you've seen so many people sell out. but you'd think that would make you a little more accepting of those who take on the overall straight edge philosophy as their own. even if it differs from your definition a little.

so I can drink beer and be straight edge? I can smoke dope and be straight edge? IF there isn't one definition that everyone involved agrees on then what do you have? You seriously need to make up your mind either straight edge can evolve or it can't. You either have a working definition that everyone involved agrees upon or you don't. And since you listed a definition of no drugs, no drinking and no smoking then it's safe to say that you do agree that there is a definition with a common consensus, because if there wasn't, then there wouldn't really be straight edge.

xbatmanx
03-07-2006, 12:04 PM
sure if enough people got involved, co-opted the term and changed it. but that's currently not the case. also there doesn't have to be a collected agreement. I don't know why this is so hard for you kids to understand.
Really? There doesn't need to be a collected agreement? That's exaclty how you said these "decisions" get made.
"it's a collective decision. the people involved have dictated the definition. " That was copy and pasted from your post.

xsecx
03-07-2006, 12:06 PM
Really? There doesn't need to be a collected agreement? That's exaclty how you said these "decisions" get made.
"it's a collective decision. the people involved have dictated the definition. " That was copy and pasted from your post.

if you actually read the CONTEXT of the post you'd see that it was in refernce to the issue about being edge and christian, which since it isn't an edge issue, wouldn't need to be a collective decision in terms of straight edge.

SgtD
03-07-2006, 12:08 PM
well since straight edge doesn't have a governing body of people to make executive decisions, nor does it have any kind of elections, and it's kind of a loose-knit community that spans the globe i don't understand how there is one definition and one definition only of straight edge. yes, the straight edge can evolve, but it doesn't evolve the same for everyone. and if people didn't understand that, then you'd have quite a few people claiming that even you, the mighty Dusty, be all and end all of straight edge, is not edge because you believe that fucking is ok or because you eat chocolate. there needs to be a margin of error for flexibility. because maybe this group of sxe kids over here, doesn't talk to these kids over here or whatever, sxe evolves differently for everyone. or doesn't evolve at all from minor threat days for some people. who knows? who cares? i'm not trying to disprove anyone's personal definition of straight edge, but i'm debunking the dogmatic tendencies people seem to have when it comes to straight edge or even veganism for that matter, or anything along those lines. I don't know, maybe you're just bitter cause you're one of the older guys and like me, you've seen so many people sell out. but you'd think that would make you a little more accepting of those who take on the overall straight edge philosophy as their own. even if it differs from your definition a little.
this post strengthened my thought that you don't really know what you are talking about. all of it seems bullshit to me! how would there be more definition of sxe?!

xbatmanx
03-07-2006, 01:05 PM
so I can drink beer and be straight edge? I can smoke dope and be straight edge? IF there isn't one definition that everyone involved agrees on then what do you have? You seriously need to make up your mind either straight edge can evolve or it can't. You either have a working definition that everyone involved agrees upon or you don't. And since you listed a definition of no drugs, no drinking and no smoking then it's safe to say that you do agree that there is a definition with a common consensus, because if there wasn't, then there wouldn't really be straight edge.
Straight edge obviously has a starting point. It's a bunch of hardcore kids who don't do drugs, don't drink and don't smoke. Where you're getting that you also need to think it's wrong for other people to do these things is what I'm not seeing. Great, it's a collective decision. Who was the collection of people that decided it. And how did they get the memo out to every other edge kid out there to make the immediate changes or lose their edge?
Maybe you just feel like if you can control straight edge it will make up for a lack of control you have over other aspects of your life, I don't know. But the truth is, you're wrong. There has always been kids everywhere who define straight edge a little differently, maybe within their own group of friends, and there always will be. There has always been elitist pricks who need to be better than everyone else and there always will be. If you want to say my friends and I are any less straight edge than you and your buddies then you can fuck off cause it didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now.

xsecx
03-07-2006, 01:11 PM
Straight edge obviously has a starting point. It's a bunch of hardcore kids who don't do drugs, don't drink and don't smoke. Where you're getting that you also need to think it's wrong for other people to do these things is what I'm not seeing. Great, it's a collective decision. Who was the collection of people that decided it. And how did they get the memo out to every other edge kid out there to make the immediate changes or lose their edge?
Maybe you just feel like if you can control straight edge it will make up for a lack of control you have over other aspects of your life, I don't know. But the truth is, you're wrong. There has always been kids everywhere who define straight edge a little differently, maybe within their own group of friends, and there always will be. There has always been elitist pricks who need to be better than everyone else and there always will be. If you want to say my friends and I are any less straight edge than you and your buddies then you can fuck off cause it didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now.

wow you're projecting like a mother fucker. Straight edge is an extreme stance. It's making a very vocal statement that you don't drink, you don't smoke and don't do drugs. The lyrics, the shirts, the slogans all support the idea that we all believe that drinking alcohol, doing drugs and smoking is wrong, which is not only why we don't do it, but also care so strongly about it that we join a subculture about it. Now, how am I wrong about any of that? Did you not say that you didn't want to associate with people who drank? You're just being defensive about YOUR religious stance and how YOU justify 2 clearly conflicting beliefs to yourself. I"m sure if jesus's drinking habits weren't brought up that we wouldn't be having this conversation.

xbatmanx
03-07-2006, 01:11 PM
this post strengthened my thought that you don't really know what you are talking about. all of it seems bullshit to me! how would there be more definition of sxe?!
Cell mentality is bullshit to you? A looseknit theory that different cells or "groups" of people define more intimately within themselves since there is no governing body that makes you follow one thing or another. This just strengthened my thought that you're either uneducated or you don't like to think for yourself.

SgtD
03-07-2006, 01:15 PM
Cell mentality is bullshit to you? A looseknit theory that different cells or "groups" of people define more intimately within themselves since there is no governing body that makes you follow one thing or another. This just strengthened my thought that you're either uneducated or you don't like to think for yourself.
reread my post

xbatmanx
03-07-2006, 01:35 PM
wow you're projecting like a mother fucker. Straight edge is an extreme stance. It's making a very vocal statement that you don't drink, you don't smoke and don't do drugs. The lyrics, the shirts, the slogans all support the idea that we all believe that drinking alcohol, doing drugs and smoking is wrong, which is not only why we don't do it, but also care so strongly about it that we join a subculture about it. Now, how am I wrong about any of that? Did you not say that you didn't want to associate with people who drank? You're just being defensive about YOUR religious stance and how YOU justify 2 clearly conflicting beliefs to yourself. I"m sure if jesus's drinking habits weren't brought up that we wouldn't be having this conversation.
It also started out as a stance against the status quo. People who didn't want to be told to drink. So why would I think it's ok to tell someone not to drink? Like I said, I could care less if you think I'm straight edge or not.
Because I don't want to hang out with the kids who go to bars on friday nights since i don't like bars because i don't drink or smoke, and would rather go to a show with a bunch of drug free kids, that somehow proves your point? I never said I would have a problem if they wanted to hang out with me at a show or go out to eat.
This has nothing to do with my religious stance. You must think you won that argument. You haven't proven to me that my beliefs conflict. And there's obviously other people you haven't proven it to either or else I'd stand alone on the matter. Instead, this argument stems from the fact that you're not a know-it-all and you can't define straight edge for other people. But no one can ever convince you of that cause it's obvious that your personality doesn't allow for you to be wrong.
Lyrics come from personal opinions of individual bands or band members. Shirts and slogans come from bands. I don't remember hearing any lyrics saying "If you don't think that everyone else who drinks is immoral then you're not straight edge."

xbatmanx
03-07-2006, 01:36 PM
if you actually read the CONTEXT of the post you'd see that it was in refernce to the issue about being edge and christian, which since it isn't an edge issue, wouldn't need to be a collective decision in terms of straight edge.
My bad on this. I misread that.

xbatmanx
03-07-2006, 01:39 PM
reread my post
and what am i looking for? did i miss the part where you gave some kind of evidence on how my argument was bullshit?

xsecx
03-07-2006, 01:46 PM
It also started out as a stance against the status quo. People who didn't want to be told to drink. So why would I think it's ok to tell someone not to drink? Like I said, I could care less if you think I'm straight edge or not.


Have you done any reading about early straight edge or is it all limited to interviews you read about mackaye and minor threat? Also, where did I ever question whether or not you're straight edge? And what does this have to do with what I actually said?



Because I don't want to hang out with the kids who go to bars on friday nights since i don't like bars because i don't drink or smoke, and would rather go to a show with a bunch of drug free kids, that somehow proves your point? I never said I would have a problem if they wanted to hang out with me at a show or go out to eat.


so you don't have a problem with them when they're doing what you want them to do. Do you think drinking, smoking and doing drugs are smart good choices that people should do? OR would the world be a better place without them?



This has nothing to do with my religious stance. You must think you won that argument. You haven't proven to me that my beliefs conflict. And there's obviously other people you haven't proven it to either or else I'd stand alone on the matter. Instead, this argument stems from the fact that you're not a know-it-all and you can't define straight edge for other people. But no one can ever convince you of that cause it's obvious that your personality doesn't allow for you to be wrong.


How am I defining straight edge though? Especially since I'm not arguing at all with how you "roughly" defined straight edge?



Lyrics come from personal opinions of individual bands or band members. Shirts and slogans come from bands. I don't remember hearing any lyrics saying "If you don't think that everyone else who drinks is immoral then you're not straight edge."

They're also the method and medium of the message. Straight edge was named from a song. This is the thing, you go on long ass rants that don't actually address the questions posed to you.

"It's making a very vocal statement that you don't drink, you don't smoke and don't do drugs. The lyrics, the shirts, the slogans all support the idea that we all believe that drinking alcohol, doing drugs and smoking is wrong, which is not only why we don't do it, but also care so strongly about it that we join a subculture about it. Now, how am I wrong about any of that?"

go read on here about the reasons why people have gone edge and see how many happy stories you find about drugs, alcohol and tobacco. Straight edge is an extreme statement. This isn't my opinion, it's a fact dude. It's people who feel so strongly about a subject that they get it tattoo'd into their skin and devote their lives to it. It's not about moderation and it's not about thinking alcohol and drugs are ok. because honestly no one does, because if they did, they wouldn't call themselves straight edge to get lumped in with a bunch of people with extreme views on the subject.

SgtD
03-07-2006, 01:48 PM
and what am i looking for? did i miss the part where you gave some kind of evidence on how my argument was bullshit?
no, i didn't write down how your thoughts of sxe is a loose knit community which has different definitions of straight edge is bullshit, but i wrote down a question you didn't answer.
call me uneducated, but i think you just skipped that.