Questions from an outsider...

[Esoteric]

Hi,
Been lurking on your board for several months (as well as a couple other sXe boards) but I'm not edge. Actually, I'm an old college professor who is about as uncool as they come. The straight edge movement (phenomena?) was brought to my attention by several of my students and I developed a profound interest in it as I am working on a book on how youth develop and perceive personal ethical standards. Your group struck me as interesting in this area for two reasons: 1) you have a strong personal ethical code that 2) is perceived quite different from person to person.

All that blather aside (forgive me, I'm nervous), I have a lot of questions I'd like to ask. You may answer or not as is your prerogative but I'd appreciate any insight you can give me. I even welcome smart-aleck answers although be warned, I might not be able to tell the difference. Thanks for your time,
Esoteric.

Here are the first set of questions - they are more general and pertaining to the culture. I have more questions that I'd like to ask (if you all are okay with that) but I figured I shouldn't deluge you.

1. Does the sXe culture (I know it's not in the "code") include violence?
2. How are girl sXe viewed? Are they as accepted?
3. Do skateboarding and sXe go together? SXe and body art? SXe and a particular style of dress (black, punk, etc)?
4. Do the shows get violent?
5. What’s the difference between hardcore and emo?
6. Do you ever get attacked (either verbally or physically) for what you believe?

[flame_still_burns]

i suppose i should first preface my response with information that i'm actually 33 years old, married and have 2 children of my own. so i may not be the ideal candidate for research into the 'average' straight edge 'kid'. however, i have been involved in this for about the last 18 years and i would consider myself capable of having an answer for most of the questions you asked or will ask.

1. straight edge is joined at the hip with hardcore music. the music, for the most part is the vehicle for the message, there are other means, but hardcore shows seem to be the central gathering place for straight edge kids to meet up. (actually, this may be changing in the internet age, where it seems like various websites are the primary locations where ideas can be exchanged and friendships forged. this could be good in a way, due to it being more accessible to more people. but it has undeniably also harmed the movement, or culture if you prefer). as you may well know hardcore music is very fast and aggressive, and kids have styles of dance that an outsider might view as violence. for the most part, this dancing is really kids just 'going off' and having a good time. of course, fights do occur... a room full of testosterone laden young men bumping into each other will sometimes lead to that. but that is about as violent as it gets. now, if you are refering to any doctrine of straight edge that promotes violence against others who are not straight edge, well there have been a few short lived pockets within the scene that have somehow subverted the message into supporting this. salt lake city in the mid to late 90's comes to mind. however, you'll find that most of those scenes were considered laughable at the time by most of us. not to mention that you will find only a very isolated number of actual acts of violence that were committed. much like gangster rap, these groups tended to include a lot of posturing and talking about being tough, rather than actually doing any of the things they talked about. these groups tended to die out as quickly as they popped up, which is fine by me. most acts of violence that get pinned onto the straight edge scene are merely because one of two people who got in a fight was straight edge. and straight edge wasn't any more to blame than high school football was to blame for all the kids who happened to be high school football players that also got into fights was. in my mind, no...straight edge does not include violence.

(i'm gonna answer these one at a time. i gots to eat dinner now)

ps: sorry for my capitalization and punctuation.

[flame_still_burns]

2. there are many women involved in the straight edge scene. however, it is still predominately white middle to upper middle class males. i can definitely see the shortfalls of our scene in terms of gender equality. most straight edge bands that include females would be seen as little more than a novelty, and not taken entirely seriously. but that said, i have seen a fairly significant change in the time i have been involved. there was a time that you rarely or never saw women near the front of the stage at shows, or dancing and singing along to the bands. it is commonplace today to see this, certainly not in the same number as men, but they are there. and yes, i think that women are respected. many of them book shows, do zines and are active and contributing to our scene. that said, there is work to do if this is going to be truly equal. this is no different than the rest of society, and the problems that plague the rest of society are also evident here.

[flame_still_burns]

3. i'd say that the only thing that really must go together with straight edge is hardcore music. there have been those that argue that straight edge is a stand alone belief system that operates independent of anything else. i say this is untrue. if that was the case what would make straight edge any different than the amish or whatever other group of people that abstain from intoxicants? is some 70 year old man who doesn't drink or smoke straight edge? no. to be straight edge is to be involved in this scene, and this scene is inseperable with hardcore music. if someone doesn't like the music, and doesn't want to go to shows or be a part of this, then they are not straight edge. it's not about being elitist, it's about keeping this true to what it is. i do not want straight edge to become some generic watered down term for an individual that doesn't drink, smoke, etc. this scene was built on the hard work of thousands of us, and is still a product of kids doing it themselves. i do not want to see that work wasted and watered down.

some straight edge kids skateboard, but i do not see anything more than a loose connection to skateboarding. certainly less then there used to be in the 1980's...especially since skateboarding is far more mainstream these days.

straight edge and body art. tattoos are popular within the scene, but not a requirement, i'd say there is a loose connection.

there is a particular style of dress. i'd say it pretty much just includes band t-shirts, cargo pants/shorts, and sneakers. it's hard to describe to an outsider... but you can usually pick out other hardcore kids, even though the style of dress isn't that much different than you see other places. anyone that says wearing black is a part of straight edge has no idea what straight edge is, just to let you know.

[flame_still_burns]

4. i pretty much covered this in answer #1.

[flame_still_burns]

5. hardcore is no frills music, played all out. it is kids like us, starting bands. it's accessible. you can call your favorite band up, book a show with them, go nuts while seeing them (while singing along and being right up with them), hang out and have dinner with them, and then have them sleep at your house. try doing that with the rolling stones. hardcore is honest. it's do it yourself in the truest sense of the words.

emo is a stolen word. it is used to describe crappy bands trying to make it big and play at big shows with barriers and security guards and 30 dollar t-shirts. it is an incorporated word used to describe a sold out scene of kids that want to be rockstars before the last grain of sand falls out of the 15 minute hour glass and the record labels move onto something else.

emo didn't used to be that, but as i said the word was stolen.

[flame_still_burns]

6. no. i don't get attacked verbally or physically. but i'm not in high school, nor am i around anyone who would be idiotic enough to want to attack me based on my being straight edge. when i was in high school, probably 2% of kids knew what straight edge even was, because it was really underground back then.

damn, i typed a lot tonight.

[XvagueprophetX]

6. no. i don't get attacked verbally or physically. but i'm not in high school, nor am i around anyone who would be idiotic enough to want to attack me based on my being straight edge. when i was in high school, probably 2% of kids knew what straight edge even was, because it was really underground back then.

damn, i typed a lot tonight.

wow, i think you did a bang up job steve. you definitely get my nomination for sXe ambassador of the year. the only thing i can think to add to all this is:

6. my wife makes fun of me because she thinks my claiming the title "straight edge" is some juvenile attempt to hold on to my youth (i'm 30 and sXe for 14 years). she's not critical of its tenets or my allegiance to them, just my stubborn grip on the title. my feelings are that i just don't know how to stop being straight edge without doing something i'd never do (ie violating its tenets). so since it's what i am, i claim the title with pride. i understand that's not really a verbal attack... but i thought it was relevant. many people have more of a problem with the title "straight edge" than they do with its beliefs.

[kelly]

Yeah, that was well written.
The only thing I would add to is #2, since I know wvhat it is like for females in the hardcore scene. Although I have heard stories of it happening, I personally have not encountered any straightedge guys who were actively exclusive towards girls in the scene. However, I think there is an inherent masculinity in the music, and there tends to be an atmosphere of testosterone-fueled aggression at the shows. Of course, plenty of girls enjoy hardcore, but I think they are also more likely to be turned off by this aggression - the same way you'll never find as many women watching football as men.

[Esoteric]

Many, many, many thanks Flame_Still_Burns! And also to xVagueProphetX and Kelly. Your responses were succinct and well written. That was exactly what I was looking for and has cleared up many things for me. Part of my problem has been separating the general media-fueled stereotype of this movement from the actual voice of the participants. This information is invaluable to my work. And I am not at all concerned about your ages, I am interested in what everyone has to say about it, not just the "kids".

So my next question is - I have listened to some hardcore and, while it is not really to my taste, I am interested in perhaps attending a show, just as an observer. Would people there be amenable to my asking questions?

Thanks again,
Esoteric

[xsecx]

Many, many, many thanks Flame_Still_Burns! And also to xVagueProphetX and Kelly. Your responses were succinct and well written. That was exactly what I was looking for and has cleared up many things for me. Part of my problem has been separating the general media-fueled stereotype of this movement from the actual voice of the participants. This information is invaluable to my work. And I am not at all concerned about your ages, I am interested in what everyone has to say about it, not just the "kids".

So my next question is - I have listened to some hardcore and, while it is not really to my taste, I am interested in perhaps attending a show, just as an observer. Would people there be amenable to my asking questions?

Thanks again,
Esoteric

we've been talking about putting together a fest of only straight edge bands. If we pull it off, then yes, chances are you'd find people willing to be interviewed, especially if you had someone from the inside to vouch for you. Otherwise people have a tendency to get a little squirrely around people asking questions due in large part to how the media has treated us over the years. The minority creating violence is a much better story than the vast majority of good kids.

[kelly]

Good luck with your book/research. I'm sure some people here might be interested in seeing what you come up with!

[Esoteric]

we've been talking about putting together a fest of only straight edge bands. If we pull it off, then yes, chances are you'd find people willing to be interviewed, especially if you had someone from the inside to vouch for you. Otherwise people have a tendency to get a little squirrely around people asking questions due in large part to how the media has treated us over the years. The minority creating violence is a much better story than the vast majority of good kids.

Thank you, Dusty. I will check here regularly for updates on your edge fest. And I understand people being hesitant to talk to the media. I, however, am much much less glamorous than that. The chances of anyone outside my field reading my research are small. If the stars really align for me, then it might perhaps get picked up by an academic journal, which of course is the equivalent of rock-stardom in my world. I live a small life.
Esoteric

[Esoteric]

Good luck with your book/research. I'm sure some people here might be interested in seeing what you come up with!

Thank you Kelly. I will be more than happy to share my research with all of you here - the more eyes the better! Just remember, the focus of my paper is how people, especially during the adolescent phase, develop and integrate ethical codes in their social structure. What piqued my interest in straight edge was the uniqueness of your situation: unlike organized religion or political fervor, this is a quite strict code of ethics created and self-imposed almost entirely by teenagers - the faction of the population most likely to rebel against such structures. It seems to me that even those of you that are adults came to straight edge some time in your youth. I find this completely fascinating but I'm not sure how many of you will find it interesting. Either way - I'm happy to share it!
Esoteric.