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overXcomemyfear
06-02-2005, 05:47 PM
can you be edge and still be premiscuous? just curious? and someone asked me

"doesnt getting tattoos count as poisoning ur body?"

i didnt have an answer? maybe someone can help me? u guys never fail to amaze me so yeah?

Xx-Ky-xX
06-02-2005, 07:21 PM
can you be edge and still be premiscuous? just curious? and someone asked me

"doesnt getting tattoos count as poisoning ur body?"

i didnt have an answer? maybe someone can help me? u guys never fail to amaze me so yeah?

Idk we all kinda view it diffrently,
Personal i say not have sex.....wait and make love
What i mean is like dont just go and do a chick without even know her

xdaddydaycorex
06-02-2005, 08:06 PM
can you be edge and still be premiscuous?
yes.




"doesnt getting tattoos count as poisoning ur body?"
no , unless you take the pov of modern jewish conservatives and orthodoxy.

straightXed
06-03-2005, 02:08 AM
Idk we all kinda view it diffrently,
Personal i say not have sex.....wait and make love
What i mean is like dont just go and do a chick without even know her

So if you know her its not promiscuous?

xvunderx
06-03-2005, 08:20 AM
So if you know her its not promiscuous?

Basicly you have to go out for dinner and movie then you can hump.

wildman536
06-03-2005, 08:50 AM
that still sounds messed movie dinner then hump? not enough. get to know her/him then maybe.

straightXed
06-03-2005, 09:36 AM
Basicly you have to go out for dinner and movie then you can hump.


You have to do dinner and a movie, jeez dating can be expensive.

straightXed
06-03-2005, 09:36 AM
that still sounds messed movie dinner then hump? not enough. get to know her/him then maybe.


So your saying stalk him/her for a while first?

Xx-Ky-xX
06-03-2005, 10:41 AM
Basicly you have to go out for dinner and movie then you can hump.
Is that what u and dusty did....lol

xsecx
06-03-2005, 10:44 AM
Idk we all kinda view it diffrently,
Personal i say not have sex.....wait and make love
What i mean is like dont just go and do a chick without even know her

but what does any of that have to do with straight edge?

xsecx
06-03-2005, 10:45 AM
Is that what u and dusty did....lol

would it matter if it was?

wildman536
06-03-2005, 11:49 AM
So your saying stalk him/her for a while first?
naa im just saying that you should develop a "relationship" first then move on to sex. thats all.

xvunderx
06-03-2005, 01:02 PM
that still sounds messed movie dinner then hump? not enough. get to know her/him then maybe.

It was a joke. You don't have to go to that much trouble.

straightXed
06-03-2005, 01:24 PM
naa im just saying that you should develop a "relationship" first then move on to sex. thats all.


Stalking is a relationship.

Morgedge
06-03-2005, 05:19 PM
My girlfriend and I have been dating for more than 2 years and still no sex. 'Cause we're cool like that, and I feel THAT is right (and just cool.)

DcDuckee
06-03-2005, 05:35 PM
that still sounds messed movie dinner then hump? not enough. get to know her/him then maybe.
you don't hump on the first date??

theoneyouhate
06-03-2005, 07:02 PM
When things come to sex, I wouldn't have sex with someone I haven't gone out with for a while. I need that emotional connection with my girl. But I have no objection to intercourse otherwise.

Xx-Ky-xX
06-03-2005, 08:26 PM
would it matter if it was?
mabey it would matter....lol im just palyin around

xdaddydaycorex
06-03-2005, 10:16 PM
My girlfriend and I have been dating for more than 2 years and still no sex. 'Cause we're cool like that, feel THAT is right (and just cool.)

youre only 16. so 2 years ago you shouldn't have been having sex anyway, nothing to do with edge , just too young.

xgregx
06-03-2005, 10:20 PM
youre only 16. so 2 years ago you shouldn't have been having sex anyway, nothing to do with edge , just too young.

father-like-comment

wildman536
06-04-2005, 04:58 AM
you don't hump on the first date??
nope, i am married so i dont go on first dates.

gatsaw
06-04-2005, 10:28 AM
youre only 16. so 2 years ago you shouldn't have been having sex anyway, nothing to do with edge , just too young.
i kinda thought that way too.

Aleiav
06-08-2005, 01:06 AM
Since sleeping with people you don't know risks damage to your body through STDs and possibly pregnancy (if it's unwanted it could cause psychological damage/abortion could cause physical damage), I'd say that that's not right in the straightedge philosophy.

However, with someone you love and trust, I think that's safe and fine with straightedge philosophy. However, you have to decide and be mature enough to differentiate between lust and love.

xsecx
06-08-2005, 08:58 AM
Since sleeping with people you don't know risks damage to your body through STDs and possibly pregnancy (if it's unwanted it could cause psychological damage/abortion could cause physical damage), I'd say that that's not right in the straightedge philosophy.

However, with someone you love and trust, I think that's safe and fine with straightedge philosophy. However, you have to decide and be mature enough to differentiate between lust and love.

so is not washing your hands compulsively not right in the straight edge philosophy? or not eating right? or not getting enough sleep? or not exercising? What does straight edge have to do with any of these?

Morgedge
06-08-2005, 09:50 PM
youre only 16. so 2 years ago you shouldn't have been having sex anyway, nothing to do with edge , just too young. Uhmm well, everyone I know lost their virginity at 13-14, but I go to a school with morons, I think even 18 is too young for sex in a lot of cases, how do you know if you're ever old enough, how do you know when it's right? How do you know when you can handle it?

Aleiav
06-09-2005, 12:32 AM
so is not washing your hands compulsively not right in the straight edge philosophy? or not eating right? or not getting enough sleep? or not exercising? What does straight edge have to do with any of these?

Weeel... I think the reason you don't do drugs in edge is because you believe it's wrong. And why would you believe it's wrong? Because it hurts your body. So many people believe in treating their body the right way that they become vegan. To them, not eating right (which would be eating animals) is kind of against their type of edge/beliefs.

I personally think that you should exersize and well... treat your body good. Food can be just as bad as drugs to your body so... why shouldn't eating right and exersizing not fit with edge?

Washing your hands compulsively would actually be BAD for your body. Doing anything compulsively (e.g. taking vitamins compulsively, drinking milk compulsively, exersizing compulsively) whether it seems to have postive affects is likely to hurt your body. Regardless, I think the point you were making is a germaphobic. While sickness can hurt your body, it's not something you do intentionally to yourself (generally, unless you're hypocondriac), so it hardly fits it with other lifestyles edge is against.

I think... well, at least I believe, that part of straight edge is taking good care of yourself. And not exersizing and not eating healty, IMO, is just as bad as drugs and can eventually kill you like drugs. So why wouldn't it fit?

Also, isn't the edge about making your own rules/decisions (except for the basic components of no drugs and alcohol)? That's why some edges go vegan. If I choose to believe that having casual sex (protected or not, because condoms break) is potentially damaging to your body, then I'm making my own rules/decisions and applying it to my edge. Yours and mine don't have to be exactly identical. If that's the case, the vegan edgers and the meat eating edgers have some issues to work out.

xvunderx
06-09-2005, 07:45 AM
Weeel... I think the reason you don't do drugs in edge is because you believe it's wrong. And why would you believe it's wrong? Because it hurts your body.

See lots of things hurt my body, certain sports have been and continue to do a number on my knees. Thats fine with me.

The reason I believe doing drugs is wrong, and a bad thing is because I think it's weak, and I think it's lazy. (Now this is a UK slant but..) People work all day every day in some soul crushing job just to get the cash together to go out on the weekend and get drunk off their asses. They use drugs to escape the crappy reality of their lives, because it's easier to hide behind drugs than to make real changes.

Kids take drug to get high, catch that buzz. Too lazy to actually do anything, they buy interest and entertainment and passively sit there not taking an active part in their own lives.

I am against drugs because society sets this up. You can't have fun if your not drinking. So fun only exists when you buy it bottled? Too stressed? Why not smoke! Fat? Take a diet pill.

People want to buy change, they want to be passive. I want to be clear, I want my emotions good or bad to be my own, not a veil over the truth. I want to be active in my life, to take control, to look at it objectively.

I am also against the companies that turn addiction and violence into profit.

Thats why I am against drugs, I couldn't give a crap about what it does to my body.



I personally think that you should exersize and well... treat your body good. Food can be just as bad as drugs to your body so... why shouldn't eating right and exersizing not fit with edge?


I think... well, at least I believe, that part of straight edge is taking good care of yourself. And not exersizing and not eating healty, IMO, is just as bad as drugs and can eventually kill you like drugs. So why wouldn't it fit?

It has nothing to do with edge because it has nothing to do with taking a stand against drugs.

Lots of things are a good idea, doesn't mean they have anything to do with edge.

Edge is one part of your life, the rest are decisions you make for yourself. Just like Vegan, you can be Vegan and be edge, it doean't mean one should include the other.

I personaly think the "bad for your health" angle is a very shallow way of looking at edge. I also think that's the opinion of an individual, and not at all of the entire straight edge community.


Also, isn't the edge about making your own rules/decisions (except for the basic components of no drugs and alcohol)? That's why some edges go vegan. If I choose to believe that having casual sex (protected or not, because condoms break) is potentially damaging to your body, then I'm making my own rules/decisions and applying it to my edge. Yours and mine don't have to be exactly identical. If that's the case, the vegan edgers and the meat eating edgers have some issues to work out.

Not really edge is about being against drugs, you do drugs, your not edge thats the rule. It is about thinking for yourself, and setting your own rules, if some of those are edge cool, any thing else you set yourself, cool. Not part of edge, but still good choices. Being edge doesn't mean being one dimentional. Not everything in your life is edge. The reason you might work out, not fuck about and not eat your pets might be the same reason, it doesn't make it the same thing.

I'm vegetarian, and I am edge. not eating meat has nothing to do with edge it's just another layer of what it means to be me.

xsecx
06-09-2005, 08:53 AM
Uhmm well, everyone I know lost their virginity at 13-14, but I go to a school with morons, I think even 18 is too young for sex in a lot of cases, how do you know if you're ever old enough, how do you know when it's right? How do you know when you can handle it?


boy are you in for a shock when you start having sex.

xsecx
06-09-2005, 08:54 AM
See lots of things hurt my body, certain sports have been and continue to do a number on my knees. Thats fine with me.

The reason I believe doing drugs is wrong, and a bad thing is because I think it's weak, and I think it's lazy. (Now this is a UK slant but..) People work all day every day in some soul crushing job just to get the cash together to go out on the weekend and get drunk off their asses. They use drugs to escape the crappy reality of their lives, because it's easier to hide behind drugs than to make real changes.

Kids take drug to get high, catch that buzz. Too lazy to actually do anything, they buy interest and entertainment and passively sit there not taking an active part in their own lives.

I am against drugs because society sets this up. You can't have fun if your not drinking. So fun only exists when you buy it bottled? Too stressed? Why not smoke! Fat? Take a diet pill.

People want to buy change, they want to be passive. I want to be clear, I want my emotions good or bad to be my own, not a veil over the truth. I want to be active in my life, to take control, to look at it objectively.

I am also against the companies that turn addiction and violence into profit.

Thats why I am against drugs, I couldn't give a crap about what it does to my body.





It has nothing to do with edge because it has nothing to do with taking a stand against drugs.

Lots of things are a good idea, doesn't mean they have anything to do with edge.

Edge is one part of your life, the rest are decisions you make for yourself. Just like Vegan, you can be Vegan and be edge, it doean't mean one should include the other.

I personaly think the "bad for your health" angle is a very shallow way of looking at edge. I also think that's the opinion of an individual, and not at all of the entire straight edge community.



Not really edge is about being against drugs, you do drugs, your not edge thats the rule. It is about thinking for yourself, and setting your own rules, if some of those are edge cool, any thing else you set yourself, cool. Not part of edge, but still good choices. Being edge doesn't mean being one dimentional. Not everything in your life is edge. The reason you might work out, not fuck about and not eat your pets might be the same reason, it doesn't make it the same thing.

I'm vegetarian, and I am edge. not eating meat has nothing to do with edge it's just another layer of what it means to be me.

what she said

Aleiav
06-09-2005, 11:28 PM
*nods* Yeah that pretty much was the opinion of one person... me. XD I can hardly say the opinion of everyone, but I was justifying my belief personally.

I don't do drugs because it fucks up your body, it's addictive, and I don't see a point in it. I think any addiction is bad, doesn't matter what it's to. You can be additcted to food just as much as drugs. And that can be bad for you. No offence, but I hardly see how not wanting to do something that fucks you up is "shallow". o_0 I think it's pretty stupid to do something that's bad for you. :P


Not really edge is about being against drugs, you do drugs, your not edge thats the rule. It is about thinking for yourself, and setting your own rules

Exactly. :P I'm setting my own rules. And my own rules say don't fuck up your body with addictions. :P Edge is a part of that because it's anti-drug and alcohol, which both fuck up your body and get you hooked.

Not saying EVERYTHING I believe has to do with edge (never said that) but I can kind of relate or lay some other beliefs into edge if I choose to look at it with those rules in mind. Just a speculation, not the bible I keep by my bed everyday. XD

Morgedge
06-10-2005, 01:04 AM
Haha, ohhh life, you work in weird ways.

straightXed
06-10-2005, 03:19 AM
*nods* Yeah that pretty much was the opinion of one person... me. XD I can hardly say the opinion of everyone, but I was justifying my belief personally.

Yeah but you were saying certain things weren't in accordance with the philosophy of straightedge


I don't do drugs because it fucks up your body, it's addictive, and I don't see a point in it. I think any addiction is bad, doesn't matter what it's to. You can be additcted to food just as much as drugs. And that can be bad for you. No offence, but I hardly see how not wanting to do something that fucks you up is "shallow". o_0 I think it's pretty stupid to do something that's bad for you. :PI'm addicted to kung fu, its something i'm very passionate about and enjoy and benifit from on so many levels, why is it bad? And the reason your opinion was shallow, not because it was against things that fucked you up but because it didn't look at straightedge with any depth at all. Its not a philosophy about anything that is just bad for you, its an anti drug stanceand that goes way beyond them just being bad for you. The act of not doing stuff because it is bad isn't particularly shallow but as a way of looking at straight edge it is and thats what was said.




Exactly. :P I'm setting my own rules. And my own rules say don't fuck up your body with addictions. :P Edge is a part of that because it's anti-drug and alcohol, which both fuck up your body and get you hooked. which is great but all those other things you abstain from aside from drink and drugs aren't for or against straightedge so when you make comments saying that eating well is in accordance with straightedge you are blurring what straightedge is. when you make your own personal choices they don't immediately come under the banner of straight edge just because some of your beliefs have collectively been known as straight edge within a community external from you.


Not saying EVERYTHING I believe has to do with edge (never said that) but I can kind of relate or lay some other beliefs into edge if I choose to look at it with those rules in mind. Just a speculation, not the bible I keep by my bed everyday. XD

You can't lay other beliefs into edge, you can lay them alongside but not into. And you did say "To them, not eating right (which would be eating animals) is kind of against their type of edge/beliefs." They don't have a different type of edge, they just happen to also be vegan/vegitarian. And "why shouldn't eating right and exersizing not fit with edge?" theese aren't tennents of edge although can be found in edge people, their definition of edge hasn't changed as it shouldn't they've just taken on other things that are healthy. your definition is flawed if you change what it means, it should remain identical in its criteria and anything else you believe is just personal. Otherwise you are aiding to blurring the definition of what straightedge is.

xvunderx
06-10-2005, 07:54 AM
Yeah but you were saying certain things weren't in accordance with the philosophy of straightedge

I'm addicted to kung fu, its something i'm very passionate about and enjoy and benifit from on so many levels, why is it bad? And the reason your opinion was shallow, not because it was against things that fucked you up but because it didn't look at straightedge with any depth at all. Its not a philosophy about anything that is just bad for you, its an anti drug stanceand that goes way beyond them just being bad for you. The act of not doing stuff because it is bad isn't particularly shallow but as a way of looking at straight edge it is and thats what was said.



which is great but all those other things you abstain from aside from drink and drugs aren't for or against straightedge so when you make comments saying that eating well is in accordance with straightedge you are blurring what straightedge is. when you make your own personal choices they don't immediately come under the banner of straight edge just because some of your beliefs have collectively been known as straight edge within a community external from you.



You can't lay other beliefs into edge, you can lay them alongside but not into. And you did say "To them, not eating right (which would be eating animals) is kind of against their type of edge/beliefs." They don't have a different type of edge, they just happen to also be vegan/vegitarian. And "why shouldn't eating right and exersizing not fit with edge?" theese aren't tennents of edge although can be found in edge people, their definition of edge hasn't changed as it shouldn't they've just taken on other things that are healthy. your definition is flawed if you change what it means, it should remain identical in its criteria and anything else you believe is just personal. Otherwise you are aiding to blurring the definition of what straightedge is.


haha what he said!

Chosing straight edge is a personal thing. Straight edge isn't, it's a collective thing. Edge is what Edge is, a subculture, based in hardcore, taking a strong stance against drugs. Nothing else. Eating well, sleeping well, grooming well whatever, is nothing to to with the collective, there for nothing to do with edge. You can say "I do these things for the same reasons I am edge" you can't say "for me these things are edge." because then you are speaking for every one involved with straight edge, and they ain't agreeing with you.

Aleiav
06-12-2005, 03:06 AM
*shrug*

I just see a hypocracy in refusing to do drugs but having sex with anyone that will have you. Doesn't really make sense.. o_0 I think if you live by an edge philosophy for a certain reason generally you should make similar choices (whether edge or not) with that reason. If you don't it doesn't make sense.

xsecx
06-12-2005, 09:06 AM
*shrug*

I just see a hypocracy in refusing to do drugs but having sex with anyone that will have you. Doesn't really make sense.. o_0 I think if you live by an edge philosophy for a certain reason generally you should make similar choices (whether edge or not) with that reason. If you don't it doesn't make sense.

except that those choices, and sex have nothing to do with straight edge. If someone does decide to live a monk like existance, it's because they chose to, not because it has anythign to do with straight edge. Sex and straight edge aren't related. If you think they are, why do you think so? Where are examples within the subculture of this. What are some song lyrics, or some zine articles about it?

Aleiav
06-13-2005, 11:11 PM
Well, the straightedge community I belong to, aside from this one, preaches against promiscuity. The guy I learned about straightedge from preached against promiscuity. So I assumed many take in that part in straightedge.

Whether sex has something to do with edge or not is irrelavant. It still makes you look like a hypocrite if you swear off drugs but fuck people like bunnies.

straightXed
06-14-2005, 08:52 AM
Whether sex has something to do with edge or not is irrelavant. It still makes you look like a hypocrite if you swear off drugs but fuck people like bunnies.

Unless sex is a drug that is a ridiculous statement.

xsecx
06-14-2005, 09:05 AM
Well, the straightedge community I belong to, aside from this one, preaches against promiscuity. The guy I learned about straightedge from preached against promiscuity. So I assumed many take in that part in straightedge.

Whether sex has something to do with edge or not is irrelavant. It still makes you look like a hypocrite if you swear off drugs but fuck people like bunnies.

and I asked you what you're basing it on, literal examples. I can easily point to tons of references to drugs, smoking and alcohol use within the subculture, either zines or song lyrics. Sex just isn't there and it isn't there because it doesn't belong. If out of step was never written, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Morgedge
06-14-2005, 01:05 PM
If out of step was never written, we wouldn't be having this conversation.But it was, and we are. Sex is just as much a poison as any drug, and it alters our state of mind in a sense. Sex also is set up largly by the media, wich is something I, and a few members here want to avoid.

SgtD
06-14-2005, 01:11 PM
But it was, and we are. Sex is just as much a poison as any drug, and it alters our state of mind in a sense. Sex also is set up largly by the media, wich is something I, and a few members here want to avoid.
have you ever had sex before? how is sex a poison? sheesh

xsecx
06-14-2005, 01:18 PM
But it was, and we are. Sex is just as much a poison as any drug, and it alters our state of mind in a sense. Sex also is set up largly by the media, wich is something I, and a few members here want to avoid.

how is sex a poison when it's an important part of any healthy relatiionship? Your weird issues with sex have nothing to do with straight edge.

straightXed
06-14-2005, 01:22 PM
But it was, and we are. Sex is just as much a poison as any drug, and it alters our state of mind in a sense. Sex also is set up largly by the media, wich is something I, and a few members here want to avoid.

How is sex as much of a poison as drugs? Sex is a natural behavioural trait of humans, its a natural trait of pretty much all species. The way's in which sex can change your state of mind are on a par with the way excercise can change your state of mind. And whatever your issue with the media isn't clear in your post, but if its because the media use sex in many ways to market and sell does that mean that anything that is used as a marketing tool is not edge.

However if you feel that sex is like a drug then you will never have sex due to its mind alteracation, correct?

Morgedge
06-14-2005, 09:37 PM
Toucher, alright, Ok, I said it is LIKE a drug. It can obsess you it can take over you life in the way that it can take priority over many things; Also poisons are medicines being abused, sex is a good thing, abused it is a bad thing and the consquences can destroy your life.

And as far as being set up by the media, what i mean by that is that too many companies use it to sell there products, and many other companies encourage casual sex, as well as premarital sex. Wich is something we shoudl abstain from.

Also. I don't have the link unfortunatly, but about a month ago i beleive i remember someone giving a link to an interview with Ian Mackaye, he stated that it IS a part of Staright-Edge, and who founded it? OH I KNOW! HIM!

xsecx
06-14-2005, 09:44 PM
Toucher, alright, Ok, I said it is LIKE a drug. It can obsess you it can take over you life in the way that it can take priority over many things; Also poisons are medicines being abused, sex is a good thing, abused it is a bad thing and the consquences can destroy your life.

And this is also true about any behavior, so why is sex special in this regard?



And as far as being set up by the media, what i mean by that is that too many companies use it to sell there products, and many other companies encourage casual sex, as well as premarital sex. Wich is something we shoudl abstain from.


Why should we abstain from premarital sex? What's actually wrong with casual sex? If sex is apart of edge, at what point are you 'breaking edge' with it? Any sexual act before marriage? And aren't you a bit of a hypocrite at this point?



Also. I don't have the link unfortunatly, but about a month ago i beleive i remember someone giving a link to an interview with Ian Mackaye, he stated that it IS a part of Staright-Edge, and who founded it? OH I KNOW! HIM!

This is the best you can do? A quote you "remember" from a guy who hasn't been involved other than naming it before you born and who has repeatedly made statements distancing himself to what it became?

Aleiav
06-15-2005, 12:42 AM
Sex can be addictive just as much as drugs can. Which is why I pointed out the hypocracy in refusing drugs and yet allowing yourself to become addicted to other things be it sex or... I don't know... tofu even. *shrug* Maybe it's not listed and engraved upon the straightedge rock, but it can still apply within the general realms of thinking.

Drugs are refuted not just because of addictive properties but also what it does to you. Sex can do the same. When you have sex irresponsibly you put yourself at the risk of catching STDs that can result from temporary discomfort to death and you risk pregnancy. And while pregnancy isn't a disease, it still creates another life you must be responsible for. And if you're not ready for that responsiblity, it becomes dangerous, even more dangerous, than drugs because you are not only affecting your own, but someone else's life.

I'm not saying turn into Virgin Mary and don't have sex till your married (because you can have irresponsible sex while married), I'm just saying I believe it's the smart thing to know who you're sleeping with, know where they've been, know the dangers, know the consequences and be ready to face them if that comes.

Now as for how it contradicts the drug refusal, I see the point of refusing drugs in that they are self damaging. Promiscuity can also be self damanging, which is why many straight edge people add that to their edge. No one said everyone had to do it, but I think it makes sense. Drugs hurt you. Sex can hurt you. Yes, so can skydiving, but... come on. Use your brain. Drugs, sex, and alcohol generally... I don't know... go together. You rarely see someone claiming absitence from skydiving. I think it has to do with the temptation. People see a temptation to do drugs and screw around (I personally don't) wheras people rarely have the sudden urge to skydive. e_e

As for examples, I never said I had any, I just said it was my belief. I've only been edge for a short while. I'm not claiming to be an expert on it. I just think it's contradictory to claim this type of lifestyle which profoundly refutes drugs and yet be promiscuous.

linsee
06-15-2005, 01:56 AM
Sex can be addictive just as much as drugs can. Which is why I pointed out the hypocracy in refusing drugs and yet allowing yourself to become addicted to other things be it sex or... I don't know... tofu even. *shrug* Maybe it's not listed and engraved upon the straightedge rock, but it can still apply within the general realms of thinking.

sex isnt an unhealthy thing unless you make it into something that is. saying that anything can become addictive, like tofu, is basically saying with your reasoning, that you better abstain from everything because hey you might become addicted. and being addicted to anything is bad. so remember that next time you cant go a day with out using the internet or having an apple or whatever it is you may be addicted to. because it must be bad and not make you edge.

straightXed
06-15-2005, 07:26 AM
Toucher, alright, Ok, I said it is LIKE a drug. It can obsess you it can take over you life in the way that it can take priority over many things; Also poisons are medicines being abused, sex is a good thing, abused it is a bad thing and the consquences can destroy your life.

Video games are an edge break then, reading is an edge break then, using the internet is an edge break then, collecting star wars stuff is an edge break. There are many many things that can be abused, so why is only sex pin pointed, surely you would want to abstain from anything you could potentially abuse?


And as far as being set up by the media, what i mean by that is that too many companies use it to sell there products, and many other companies encourage casual sex, as well as premarital sex. Wich is something we shoudl abstain from.

You realise companies also use music to sell products, i mean is it an edge break because you are sucked into buying something that has an alluring advertisment utilising sex as a tool. If thats the problem then what about other tools advertising companies use, like music, what if you bought something that used a heavy lure of a musical hook. Advertisments are only appealing to what we already are drawn too, they aren't egineering our nature, they are egineering the appeal of their commercial to us, they aren't encouraging casual sex they are encouraging sales. The fact is we already naturually have a desire for sex, and if this sex drive is natural why would you supress it? I mean what real difference does marriage make to to a sexual relationship, if anything being married before finding out about your own sexuality and your partners could very easily set you up for an early divorce. Sex plays a part of the relationship it plays an important roll, to deny it just sets you up for breaking vows of marriage. So why should i abstain from sex, i'm not married, do you really think straightedge kids wait until marriage to have sex - i mean at the time you begin to be sexually active you are in now way mature enough to make a decision of marriage, when kids start experimenting and feeling the need to experiment with sex they can be as young as 14,13, maybe younger still in some cases. Do you think its the right age to be thinking about marriage? If you don't, do you think supression of natural desires that helps shape and form individual characters until an age where marriage is more appropiate? Personally i don't think marriages from too young an age have much of a sucess rate, so lets say they wait till they are 21 and never experience sex, by which time with all the supression they have accumilated all types of sexual hang ups and the relationship bears the brunt of these problems and struggles to work in a healthy manner. Now if that isn't more of an example of abusing sex and sexual desire than sleeping with a consentual partner is then i'm a swimming pool. In short sex isn't a drug, adverts aren't demanding you have sex, having sex in a casual pre marital relationship does not negate edge.


Also. I don't have the link unfortunatly, but about a month ago i beleive i remember someone giving a link to an interview with Ian Mackaye, he stated that it IS a part of Staright-Edge, and who founded it? OH I KNOW! HIM!

Ian Mackaye has nothing to do with straightedge aside from singing a song about drugs, the title of which was adopted for a movement of which he wanted no part.

straightXed
06-15-2005, 08:03 AM
Sex can be addictive just as much as drugs can. Which is why I pointed out the hypocracy in refusing drugs and yet allowing yourself to become addicted to other things be it sex or... I don't know... tofu even. *shrug* Maybe it's not listed and engraved upon the straightedge rock, but it can still apply within the general realms of thinking.

So a natural attraction to the oppisite sex from a natural libido should be suppressed? Should having sex be avoided for ever? I mean what about eating, theres a possibilty i will develop an eating problem if i eat, should i stop eating? Its ridiculous to propse such a notion and it doesn't fit with the thinking behind being straightedge.



Drugs are refuted not just because of addictive properties but also what it does to you. Sex can do the same. When you have sex irresponsibly you put yourself at the risk of catching STDs that can result from temporary discomfort to death and you risk pregnancy. And while pregnancy isn't a disease, it still creates another life you must be responsible for. And if you're not ready for that responsiblity, it becomes dangerous, even more dangerous, than drugs because you are not only affecting your own, but someone else's life.

The issue on drugs is also largely social but are you just talking about irresponsible sex, casual sex can be safe sex. I mean if i wasn't careful with the food addiction i have i could risk food poisoning or even death but i practice safe eating. All you've done is made an argument for safe sex, i could still have sex all day and have this addiction to it. I'm all for safe sex but it is a seperate issue from straightedge all together.


I'm not saying turn into Virgin Mary and don't have sex till your married (because you can have irresponsible sex while married), I'm just saying I believe it's the smart thing to know who you're sleeping with, know where they've been, know the dangers, know the consequences and be ready to face them if that comes.

Thats great, i agree but it has nothing to do with straightedge.


Now as for how it contradicts the drug refusal, I see the point of refusing drugs in that they are self damaging. Promiscuity can also be self damanging, which is why many straight edge people add that to their edge. No one said everyone had to do it, but I think it makes sense. Drugs hurt you. Sex can hurt you. Yes, so can skydiving, but... come on. Use your brain. Drugs, sex, and alcohol generally... I don't know... go together. You rarely see someone claiming absitence from skydiving. I think it has to do with the temptation. People see a temptation to do drugs and screw around (I personally don't) wheras people rarely have the sudden urge to skydive. e_e

And many more don't add it, its not an issue discussed actively through straightedge songs, and promiscuity can also be safe sex. The tell tale point here is this statement "Drugs hurt you. Sex can hurt you" There are a lot of things that people have urges to do that can hurt you. It is still nothing to do with straightedge, i mean its great that you practice safe sex, i condone that but its still not part of a stance against drugs.


As for examples, I never said I had any, I just said it was my belief. I've only been edge for a short while. I'm not claiming to be an expert on it. I just think it's contradictory to claim this type of lifestyle which profoundly refutes drugs and yet be promiscuous.

Its your belief but its not the belief of straightedge, if people keep adding things to it then it becomes nothing. And its not contradictory its just not a straightedge issue, you could add any sort of negative activity and argue that its contradictory not to add it in the light of its negative nature. Point is straightedge is an anti drugs stance, thats it, it doesn't advocate or oppose sex as its not relevent to its nature. Sex isn't a drug and no one is saying you have to be promiscuous, although a definition of promiscuity is a tough one, i mean how frequent and how many partners is promiscuous? if the sex is safe what is the issue?

XeodguruX
06-15-2005, 10:53 AM
you guys are both correct, sort of. Straight edge does include no promuscous(god i can't spell) sex. it has been writen in song lyrics xsecx, such as "stright edge" by minor threat back in '81. there are also many articles written that include it as well. however, having no sex at all is in my opinion retarded, much like my spelling. you'll never hear the conversation:

p1:"next week i'm getting castrated so i can become straight edge!"
p2:"why wait, i have a rusty knife!"

waiting to you get married is a mistake as well. you'll be likely to hear the question "do you even know where to put that?", all though i woudl like to see two ex virgins crying on their weddding night. but one night stands are something i believe straight edge is against when it is against promuscous(here we go again) sex. can we get spell check for these posts? so for the most part, i agree with aleiav about that. but she states, that eating right and exersicing is also part of straight edge. at least i think it was her. thats not true either. basically striaght edge's tenents are "don't drink, don't smoke, don't fuck" in a nutschell. eating right and exersice has nothing to do with it. for instance, i'm the only one in my shop, or sqaudron for that matter, that'll down a soda after a 3 mile run. i do it though because i'm hypoglycemic (you already know that's spelled wrong). i need all the sugar i can get, especially after working out like that. i try and drink orange soda because it has no caffine, but i won't trun down pepsi and keep myself alive with the force alone. also, the intro to this site, where it says you have to go to the shows, and be part of the scene to be staight edge too is bullshit. i had friends who were staight edge, they either moved to god knows where, or aren't straight edge anymore. i've never been to a straight edge show because i've never heard of one in conecticut, even if i did, i have two kids now and would be able to go anyway. does that make me not straight edge anymore? NO. oh, here are some of many links that you could go to for a better view on what straight edge is:

http://www.straight-edge.com/ go to the definition


http://www.toefur.com/straightedge/ check out half the articles


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edge


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A545212


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A545212 -go to their faq's page if this doesn't bring you there.


http://www.fastload.org/sx/SXe.html

i nkow there are more, but government computers block tons of websites for all sorts of reasons. aleiav here is probably the one with the least amount of time being straight edge on this thread,but has a better understanding of what it is than half the others. aleiav, good on you for becaoming staight edge, stay that way, keep your good eating and exersicing habits and don't let anyone talk you out of any of them.

xsecx
06-15-2005, 11:00 AM
you guys are both correct, sort of. Straight edge does include no promuscous(god i can't spell) sex. it has been writen in song lyrics xsecx, such as "stright edge" by minor threat back in '81. there are also many articles written that include it as well. however, having no sex at all is in my opinion retarded, much like my spelling. you'll never hear the conversation:

p1:"next week i'm getting castrated so i can become straight edge!"
p2:"why wait, i have a rusty knife!"

waiting to you get married is a mistake as well. you'll be likely to hear the question "do you even know where to put that?", all though i woudl like to see two ex virgins crying on their weddding night. but one night stands are something i believe straight edge is against when it is against promuscous(here we go again) sex. can we get spell check for these posts? so for the most part, i agree with aleiav about that. but she states, that eating right and exersicing is also part of straight edge. at least i think it was her. thats not true either. basically striaght edge's tenents are "don't drink, don't smoke, don't fuck" in a nutschell. eating right and exersice has nothing to do with it. for instance, i'm the only one in my shop, or sqaudron for that matter, that'll down a soda after a 3 mile run. i do it though because i'm hypoglycemic (you already know that's spelled wrong). i need all the sugar i can get, especially after working out like that. i try and drink orange soda because it has no caffine, but i won't trun down pepsi and keep myself alive with the force alone. also, the intro to this site, where it says you have to go to the shows, and be part of the scene to be staight edge too is bullshit. i had friends who were staight edge, they either moved to god knows where, or aren't straight edge anymore. i've never been to a straight edge show because i've never heard of one in conecticut, even if i did, i have two kids now and would be able to go anyway. does that make me not straight edge anymore? NO. oh, here are some of many links that you could go to for a better view on what straight edge is:

http://www.straight-edge.com/ go to the definition


http://www.toefur.com/straightedge/ check out half the articles


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edge


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A545212


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A545212 -go to their faq's page if this doesn't bring you there.


http://www.fastload.org/sx/SXe.html

i nkow there are more, but government computers block tons of websites for all sorts of reasons. aleiav here is probably the one with the least amount of time being straight edge on this thread,but has a better understanding of what it is than half the others. aleiav, good on you for becaoming staight edge, stay that way, keep your good eating and exersicing habits and don't let anyone talk you out of any of them.

um. point to me where in the song straight edge sex is mentioned at all. if you think there aren't edge shows in ct, you're completely mistaken. You also apparently have a view of straight edge based purely on the internet and not actually first hand knowledge.

straightXed
06-15-2005, 11:19 AM
you guys are both correct, sort of. Straight edge does include no promuscous(god i can't spell) sex. it has been writen in song lyrics xsecx, such as "stright edge" by minor threat back in '81. there are also many articles written that include it as well. however, having no sex at all is in my opinion retarded, much like my spelling. you'll never hear the conversation:

p1:"next week i'm getting castrated so i can become straight edge!"
p2:"why wait, i have a rusty knife!"

waiting to you get married is a mistake as well. you'll be likely to hear the question "do you even know where to put that?", all though i woudl like to see two ex virgins crying on their weddding night. but one night stands are something i believe straight edge is against when it is against promuscous(here we go again) sex. can we get spell check for these posts? so for the most part, i agree with aleiav about that. but she states, that eating right and exersicing is also part of straight edge. at least i think it was her. thats not true either. basically striaght edge's tenents are "don't drink, don't smoke, don't fuck" in a nutschell. eating right and exersice has nothing to do with it. for instance, i'm the only one in my shop, or sqaudron for that matter, that'll down a soda after a 3 mile run. i do it though because i'm hypoglycemic (you already know that's spelled wrong). i need all the sugar i can get, especially after working out like that. i try and drink orange soda because it has no caffine, but i won't trun down pepsi and keep myself alive with the force alone. also, the intro to this site, where it says you have to go to the shows, and be part of the scene to be staight edge too is bullshit. i had friends who were staight edge, they either moved to god knows where, or aren't straight edge anymore. i've never been to a straight edge show because i've never heard of one in conecticut, even if i did, i have two kids now and would be able to go anyway. does that make me not straight edge anymore? NO. oh, here are some of many links that you could go to for a better view on what straight edge is:

http://www.straight-edge.com/ go to the definition


http://www.toefur.com/straightedge/ check out half the articles


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_edge


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A545212


http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A545212 -go to their faq's page if this doesn't bring you there.


http://www.fastload.org/sx/SXe.html

i nkow there are more, but government computers block tons of websites for all sorts of reasons. aleiav here is probably the one with the least amount of time being straight edge on this thread,but has a better understanding of what it is than half the others. aleiav, good on you for becaoming staight edge, stay that way, keep your good eating and exersicing habits and don't let anyone talk you out of any of them.

Oh boy, you have no idea, the fact you've never been to a straightedge show sums it up really. Do you even follow straightedge hardcore?

I've seen all those links before but they do not accurately reflect what straightedge actually is. You really need to look at the hardcore scene to find out more about straight edge not just a bunch of misinformation and sites that co-opt the name for something different from what straightedge still actively is today.

Aleiav
06-15-2005, 03:09 PM
Okay, to the person who was a sardonic ass and said, "hey I better abstain from everything", try getting an argument instead of a crap retort. I didn't say abstain from everything. YES anything can be addictive. Of course, you shouldn't become addictive to anything because it's just... not good for you.

I never said having sex was bad. I never said our urges were bad. Just when you're stupid and aren't smart. Take all the precautions, is what I'm saying. It's smart to take all the precautions and stupid to just say screw it and fuck off and then claim to refute drugs because they are "bad". I'm not talking about "casual sex". I'm talking about promiscuity. Promiscuity, unwise and unprotected, puts you at high risk and is understandable NOT to do. Just as much as drugs puts you at high risk and is understandable NOT to do. My point is, WHETHER IT DOES OR DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH EDGE (just so you get that), why would you refuse to do drugs because if the ill effects but be promiscious and put yourself at a possibly worse risk??

Yes, sex CAN ruin your life. But, let's not forget, doing drugs once won't ruin your life either (generally). Drugs are just as much of a CAN as anything else. So why is sex not included? You can do drugs once or twice and mess up your body too bad. I'm not saying, hey go out and do it! What I'm saying is, in the way drugs put you at risk, promiscuious sex does the exact same thing. So, again, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S EDGE, it's still highly hypocritical to swear off one potentially damaging behavior and do another.

And from that theory, swearing off potentially dangerous behaviors (WHETHER IT'S IN EDGE OR NOT) I can get potentially dangerous behaviors such as food addiction, lack of exersize, etc. which also damages your body (see Supersize Me, the guy's liver was pickled just from eating fast food for a month. YES WE DON"T DO THAT REGULARLY [and for those of you who say he was a vegan, he wasn't, watch the movie again FFS and pay attention] but STILL just THINK about that). Addictive behaviors of any kind should be sworn off if you continue in that realm of thinking, WHETHER OR NOT IT FITS IN EDGE.

My point is, I think an edge person wouldn't be irresponsibly promiscuous because it MAKES NO SENSE to swear off drugs, FOR WHATEVER REASON AND WHETHER IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH EDGE, but be stupid enough to have unprotected sex with strangers. It's COMPLETELY hypocritical.

xsecx
06-15-2005, 03:10 PM
blah blah

learn how to use the quote button and make it so it's readable and people will know who you're addressing.

Aleiav
06-15-2005, 03:12 PM
If the people read the thread, they will know.

Maybe you should actually respond to my argument and the issue at hand instead of saying something as OT and stupid as you just did.

xsecx
06-15-2005, 03:13 PM
If the people read the thread, they will know.

Maybe you should actually respond to my argument and the issue at hand instead of saying something as OT and stupid as you just did.


if you want to post here, you'll follow the rules. and no, if people read the thread, they won't, because you're trying to address 3 different people with 1 post.

Aleiav
06-15-2005, 03:17 PM
Actually 2 different people. The one with the retort and the one who responded to me. If you NEED the quotes SO BAD to understand what I'm saying here they are:



sex isnt an unhealthy thing unless you make it into something that is. saying that anything can become addictive, like tofu, is basically saying with your reasoning, that you better abstain from everything because hey you might become addicted. and being addicted to anything is bad. so remember that next time you cant go a day with out using the internet or having an apple or whatever it is you may be addicted to. because it must be bad and not make you edge.

^^ the smartass/pointless comment.


So a natural attraction to the oppisite sex from a natural libido should be suppressed? Should having sex be avoided for ever? I mean what about eating, theres a possibilty i will develop an eating problem if i eat, should i stop eating? Its ridiculous to propse such a notion and it doesn't fit with the thinking behind being straightedge.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleiav
Drugs are refuted not just because of addictive properties but also what it does to you. Sex can do the same. When you have sex irresponsibly you put yourself at the risk of catching STDs that can result from temporary discomfort to death and you risk pregnancy. And while pregnancy isn't a disease, it still creates another life you must be responsible for. And if you're not ready for that responsiblity, it becomes dangerous, even more dangerous, than drugs because you are not only affecting your own, but someone else's life.



The issue on drugs is also largely social but are you just talking about irresponsible sex, casual sex can be safe sex. I mean if i wasn't careful with the food addiction i have i could risk food poisoning or even death but i practice safe eating. All you've done is made an argument for safe sex, i could still have sex all day and have this addiction to it. I'm all for safe sex but it is a seperate issue from straightedge all together.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleiav
I'm not saying turn into Virgin Mary and don't have sex till your married (because you can have irresponsible sex while married), I'm just saying I believe it's the smart thing to know who you're sleeping with, know where they've been, know the dangers, know the consequences and be ready to face them if that comes.



Thats great, i agree but it has nothing to do with straightedge.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleiav
Now as for how it contradicts the drug refusal, I see the point of refusing drugs in that they are self damaging. Promiscuity can also be self damanging, which is why many straight edge people add that to their edge. No one said everyone had to do it, but I think it makes sense. Drugs hurt you. Sex can hurt you. Yes, so can skydiving, but... come on. Use your brain. Drugs, sex, and alcohol generally... I don't know... go together. You rarely see someone claiming absitence from skydiving. I think it has to do with the temptation. People see a temptation to do drugs and screw around (I personally don't) wheras people rarely have the sudden urge to skydive. e_e



And many more don't add it, its not an issue discussed actively through straightedge songs, and promiscuity can also be safe sex. The tell tale point here is this statement "Drugs hurt you. Sex can hurt you" There are a lot of things that people have urges to do that can hurt you. It is still nothing to do with straightedge, i mean its great that you practice safe sex, i condone that but its still not part of a stance against drugs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleiav
As for examples, I never said I had any, I just said it was my belief. I've only been edge for a short while. I'm not claiming to be an expert on it. I just think it's contradictory to claim this type of lifestyle which profoundly refutes drugs and yet be promiscuous.



Its your belief but its not the belief of straightedge, if people keep adding things to it then it becomes nothing. And its not contradictory its just not a straightedge issue, you could add any sort of negative activity and argue that its contradictory not to add it in the light of its negative nature. Point is straightedge is an anti drugs stance, thats it, it doesn't advocate or oppose sex as its not relevent to its nature. Sex isn't a drug and no one is saying you have to be promiscuous, although a definition of promiscuity is a tough one, i mean how frequent and how many partners is promiscuous? if the sex is safe what is the issue?

The comment to me.

The reason I didn't quote them is because when I address things so spread out, I think my point gets losts. And it's just annoying that way. When I address things collectively it makes for a smaller, less chopped up post.

xsecx
06-15-2005, 03:21 PM
Actually 2 different people. The one with the retort and the one who responded to me. If you NEED the quotes SO BAD to understand what I'm saying here they are:



^^ the smartass/pointless comment.



The comment to me.

The reason I didn't quote them is because when I address things so spread out, I think my point gets losts. And it's just annoying that way. When I address things collectively it makes for a smaller, less chopped up post.

your point gets lost anyway, but that's beside the point. if you're going to address people, it's alot easier to do it post by post so that other people reading can actually follow it with ease rather than having the play guessing games and who said what.

straightXed
06-15-2005, 04:15 PM
Okay, to the person who was a sardonic ass and said, "hey I better abstain from everything", try getting an argument instead of a crap retort. I didn't say abstain from everything. YES anything can be addictive. Of course, you shouldn't become addictive to anything because it's just... not good for you.

Well sex isn't the only potential danger, and if everything can be addictive then whats your argument here "Sex can be addictive just as much as drugs can. Which is why I pointed out the hypocracy in refusing drugs and yet allowing yourself to become addicted to other things be it sex or tofu."

And your response carry's even less weight when you resort to name calling, and the point was to highlight the inconsistancy in your viewpoint which you either missed, ignored or glossed over.


I never said having sex was bad. I never said our urges were bad. Just when you're stupid and aren't smart. Take all the precautions, is what I'm saying. It's smart to take all the precautions and stupid to just say screw it and fuck off and then claim to refute drugs because they are "bad". I'm not talking about "casual sex". I'm talking about promiscuity. Promiscuity, unwise and unprotected, puts you at high risk and is understandable NOT to do. Just as much as drugs puts you at high risk and is understandable NOT to do. My point is, WHETHER IT DOES OR DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH EDGE (just so you get that), why would you refuse to do drugs because if the ill effects but be promiscious and put yourself at a possibly worse risk??

So its hypocritical to refute anything thats bad and then engage in any activity that can damage your health. So anyone who abstains from drugs and sex but skateboards is a hypocrit according to your logic.

Sorry, who has said they are advocating putting yourself in a situation to get an STD? All everyone is saying is their are many things that are dangerous and the point they are making is it has nothing to do with edge - the thread is about edge and sex, not just sex.

Asking why anyone would choose to abstain from drugs but not promiscuity just illustrates that perhaps the dangers of health issues aren't the only issues at play when people abstain from drugs.


Yes, sex CAN ruin your life. But, let's not forget, doing drugs once won't ruin your life either (generally). Drugs are just as much of a CAN as anything else. So why is sex not included? You can do drugs once or twice and mess up your body too bad. I'm not saying, hey go out and do it! What I'm saying is, in the way drugs put you at risk, promiscuious sex does the exact same thing. So, again, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S EDGE, it's still highly hypocritical to swear off one potentially damaging behavior and do another.

Well perhaps people swear of drugs for a selection of reasons and no one is saying that they advocate putting your body at risk just that its not something that comes under straightedge. But the hypocritical thing would go on and on. There are a ton of potentially damaging behavioural traits but straightedge isn't simply about abstaining from anything thats bad for you. The point isn't anyone being hypocritical because you aren't even pointing to a load of people who are fucking any dirty slappers and getting STD's, people choose edge for other reasons, reasons that don't make promiscuity hypocritical behaviour. But assuming it does make them hypocritical, who are they? where are they? Because the only point here is anti promiscuity doesn't tie in with an anti drugs stance, it may compliment it and i'm sure the majority of people don't condone sleeping round with skanks but its a seperate issue from edge just as eating meat or dairy is a seperate issue from edge.


And from that theory, swearing off potentially dangerous behaviors (WHETHER IT'S IN EDGE OR NOT) I can get potentially dangerous behaviors such as food addiction, lack of exersize, etc. which also damages your body (see Supersize Me, the guy's liver was pickled just from eating fast food for a month. YES WE DON"T DO THAT REGULARLY [and for those of you who say he was a vegan, he wasn't, watch the movie again FFS and pay attention] but STILL just THINK about that). Addictive behaviors of any kind should be sworn off if you continue in that realm of thinking, WHETHER OR NOT IT FITS IN EDGE.

See you are assuming you know why people go straightedge, and you earlier in this post said you know that everything can be adictive and there are some addictions, like hardcore record collecting or skateboarding that you think should be sworn off. You have no idea about the realm of thinking behind straightedge, at least thats the impression you are giving. And you are continuing to assume in thinking anyone cares about the diet of the guy from super size me.


My point is, I think an edge person wouldn't be irresponsibly promiscuous because it MAKES NO SENSE to swear off drugs, FOR WHATEVER REASON AND WHETHER IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH EDGE, but be stupid enough to have unprotected sex with strangers. It's COMPLETELY hypocritical.

Its not hypocritical if they are against the use of drugs in a recreational manner as a way to escape reality, if they are against the use of illegal drugs because they hold crime in great disdain if they are against alcohol because they hate the way family members have been effected by alcoholism, if they are against tobaco because they feel its a ridiculous drug that shouldn't be legal and companies shouldn't make money of it, by getting people addicted. If they are against the roles drugs play in looking cool and the social status gained by doing them, if they are against the social acceptance of recreational drug use, if they are simply against the unnatural mind alteracation of drugs.

Its a different issue, an anti drugs stance isn't simply, don't do drugs they are bad, which is why people have thrown ideas of anything that can be bad at you as things you should also abstain from when in reality the reasons they are bad don't effect what straightedge is and don't contravine or negate peoples beliefs which are a little more complex and refined than you have given them credit for.

Morgedge
06-15-2005, 04:39 PM
Well then, you've all made your point, I am accepting defeat, and being quiet.

XeodguruX
06-15-2005, 10:00 PM
um. point to me where in the song straight edge sex is mentioned at all. if you think there aren't edge shows in ct, you're completely mistaken. You also apparently have a view of straight edge based purely on the internet and not actually first hand knowledge.


well when i first choseto be straight edge, i never looked it up online, i learned about it through my straight edge friends. of the people i still know know now who are straight edge, we all have the same views on it, even the ones who just became straight eddge within the last few years. if you know of any shows in ct coming up in oct when i get home, please let me know about them, maybe i will go if i can fit it in my schedule. as for the song lyrics, i'm working on getting them on a officailly printed source(ie cd case pamphlet) and i'll scan it for you.

XeodguruX
06-15-2005, 10:14 PM
Oh boy, you have no idea, the fact you've never been to a straightedge show sums it up really. Do you even follow straightedge hardcore?

I've seen all those links before but they do not accurately reflect what straightedge actually is. You really need to look at the hardcore scene to find out more about straight edge not just a bunch of misinformation and sites that co-opt the name for something different from what straightedge still actively is today.



please enlighten me o wise and all knowing one about what your misguided views on straight edge are so that i may please you o mighty one. same goes for you, you know of any shows in ct let me know, MAYBE i could go to them. but if its a requirement that i go so i can be straight edge, how many should i go to? 1 a month? a week? or should i just bring a sleeping bag and cooler and never leave?

linsee
06-15-2005, 10:31 PM
Okay, to the person who was a sardonic ass and said, "hey I better abstain from everything", try getting an argument instead of a crap retort. I didn't say abstain from everything. YES anything can be addictive. Of course, you shouldn't become addictive to anything because it's just... not good for you.


aw thanks for calling me an ass, thats nice. but i was saying that if anything can be addictive, then anything can be bad for you like youre saying sex is. so if thats your theory then you should never become addicted to anything, so all things that you could possibly be addicted to, are negative.

basically what youre saying just doesnt make any sense.

straightXed
06-16-2005, 02:00 AM
please enlighten me o wise and all knowing one about what your misguided views on straight edge are so that i may please you o mighty one. same goes for you, you know of any shows in ct let me know, MAYBE i could go to them. but if its a requirement that i go so i can be straight edge, how many should i go to? 1 a month? a week? or should i just bring a sleeping bag and cooler and never leave?

I notice you didn't answer my first question. What makes you think straightedge can be removed from hardcore? Its not a matter of how many shows you go to its just a matter of actively supporting the hardcore scene in particular straightedge hardcore. Take straightedge away from hardcore and it becomes something else, hardcore is a huge part of straightedge, to understand straightedge, its history, to find other straightedge people, to hear about straightedge views you look to hardcore.

xsecx
06-16-2005, 09:31 AM
well when i first choseto be straight edge, i never looked it up online, i learned about it through my straight edge friends. of the people i still know know now who are straight edge, we all have the same views on it, even the ones who just became straight eddge within the last few years. if you know of any shows in ct coming up in oct when i get home, please let me know about them, maybe i will go if i can fit it in my schedule. as for the song lyrics, i'm working on getting them on a officailly printed source(ie cd case pamphlet) and i'll scan it for you.

how could you chose to be straight edge, and have no involvement with hardcore? Almost every area in the country has hardcore shows regularly. especially ct and the surrounding area.

and I'll save you the trouble.

Straight Edge

I'm a person just like you
But I've got better things to do
Then sit around and fuck my head
Hang out with the living dead
Snort white shit up my nose
Pass out at the shows
I don't even think about speed
That's something I just don't need

I've go the straight edge

I'm a person just like you
But I've got better things to do
Then sit around and smoke dope
'Cause I know that I can cope
I laugh at the thought of eating ludes
Laugh at the thought of sniffing glue
Always gonna keep in touch
Never want to use a crutch

I've got the straight edge

no mention of sex whatsoever.

xsecx
06-16-2005, 10:33 AM
also for anyone who thinks that straight edge has something to do with sex, please answer the following questions for me

1. what constitutes an edge break?
2. How far is too far, ie. is kissing ok? what about everything else?
3. Who exactly and under what conditions is sex ok, according to straight edge?
4. Why do you believe this, what examples within the subculture can you point to back up your belief that this is an integral part?

sXe DAVEY sXe
06-30-2005, 12:13 AM
I agree that Straight Edge is a very personal set of ideals. Everyone knows the basis of sXe ... No drugs, No smoking, No drinking ... and these all really fall under just one category 'drugs' ... however, I believe sXe is also about morality ... and about making positive decisions for yourself and others around you ... not to the point of being 'Hard-Line' ... but to the point of being sensitive and compassionate ... Attempting to 'Help' someone quit drugs is a better idea then attempting to 'Make' someone quit drugs ... Some people consider having a pacifistic views and having a sXe views go hand in hand ... I don't agree on the basis that kids freely beat each other down at HxC shows ... and 'Hard-Line' kids beat others down for going near a drug ... Although, in my opinion, being a pacifist isn’t necessarily a bad principle. This falls in with the whole Vegan aspect ... Although it's not, in my opinion, a part of sXe it can go together for the sheer fact that sXe and punk is about making your own decisions ... and sXe is about making yourself a better person ... sXe isn't about being self-destructive ...

I choose not to get a tattoo ... sXe structure doesn't say you can't ... but I believe that putting ink into my blood is just a little to unnatural ... and this isn't something I want to do ...

I choose not to ingest caffeine ... it's a drug ... an therefore I stay away from it ...

Like many others, I choose to NOT have promiscuous sex ... the Minor Threat song [Out Of Step (With The World)] says that he doesn't have sex ... Ian has also been quoted saying that he doesn't have promiscuous sex ... although this song isn't their 'Straight Edge' song ... I still believe that’s this is a good personal choice and part of sXe to me ...

I want to deal with my own crummy days and emotions without the 'help of drugs', as society today so commonly calls it ... I want to make a conscious stand in my life ...
I have been diagnosed with O.C.D. ... I never took anything for it ... and I get by just fine ... I never had any life threatening diseases and I hope I never will ... I don't know how those people feel about their lives and their emotions ... I can't speak for them ...

I believe sXe should be a very personal belief ... everyone one of us is going to have a different set of 'added on’ sXe rules ... I for one don't swear ... That’s defiantly not in the sXe or HxC 'rules' ... but I add it to my sXe beliefs ... I don't preach sXe to be this way ... I just keep it to myself ...

I don't agree with HxC being the ONLY and TRUE sXe scene though ... yes it's gotta’ be the most fanatic and largest, however, I'm sure there are other bands out there that could have a sXe message and even call themselves EDGE and not play HxC ... I could go out tomorrow and start a kazoo Indy band that belts out Straight Edge lyrics ...

right …

xsecx
06-30-2005, 10:31 AM
I believe sXe should be a very personal belief ... everyone one of us is going to have a different set of 'added on’ sXe rules ... I for one don't swear ... That’s defiantly not in the sXe or HxC 'rules' ... but I add it to my sXe beliefs ... I don't preach sXe to be this way ... I just keep it to myself ...


But it's not an edge thing. If you say fuck, do you stop being edge? Edge isn't a personal belief. I never understood peoples need to try and bundle all of their beliefs under one all inclusive umbrella, especially one like this where it doesn't belong. Sex, cussing or diet have nothing to do with your version or straight edge or anyone elses. They are seperate personal beliefs that you hold, but if they're not shared with the rest of the group as a whole, then they're not related.



I don't agree with HxC being the ONLY and TRUE sXe scene though ... yes it's gotta’ be the most fanatic and largest, however, I'm sure there are other bands out there that could have a sXe message and even call themselves EDGE and not play HxC ... I could go out tomorrow and start a kazoo Indy band that belts out Straight Edge lyrics ...


You could go out and start a kazoo band with a drug free message, but that band wouldn't be straight edge, it'd be something else.

XuntaintdbloodX
07-11-2005, 12:16 PM
so is not washing your hands compulsively not right in the straight edge philosophy? or not eating right? or not getting enough sleep? or not exercising? What does straight edge have to do with any of these?


wow sec you take things way to seriously, she is stating the general sex rule in straight edge and again you blow it out of proportion

SgtD
07-11-2005, 12:47 PM
wow sec you take things way to seriously, she is stating the general sex rule in straight edge and again you blow it out of proportion
what is the general sex rule in straight edge? enlighten me oh wise one

XuntaintdbloodX
07-11-2005, 01:20 PM
what is the general sex rule in straight edge? enlighten me oh wise one

well i was under the impresion that it was no sex with out love or no premiscuous sex ya know the whole sex rule thing... is it corny to qoute minor threat on this one? dont smoke dont drink dont fuck... what the hell did you think it meant? i guess its ok to make up your own rules now-a-days so can you be straight edge ans smoke cigarettes or drink only on the weekends? well only if you listen to hardcore its ok

O_o
07-11-2005, 02:53 PM
well i was under the impresion that it was no sex with out love or no premiscuous sex ya know the whole sex rule thing... is it corny to qoute minor threat on this one? dont smoke dont drink dont fuck... what the hell did you think it meant? i guess its ok to make up your own rules now-a-days so can you be straight edge ans smoke cigarettes or drink only on the weekends? well only if you listen to hardcore its ok
'the whole sex rule thing'...
jesus, where did you get that crap?

O_o

XuntaintdbloodX
07-11-2005, 03:18 PM
'the whole sex rule thing'...
jesus, where did you get that crap?

O_o


quick everybody think of a synonym for rule... err, law? thats to extreme how bout guideline... no premiscuous sex is part of the straight edge guideline but everyone makes up their own edge today so there is no more set guideline, why dont you just go eat a steak you'll feel alot better, promise! ; )

xsecx
07-11-2005, 08:05 PM
quick everybody think of a synonym for rule... err, law? thats to extreme how bout guideline... no premiscuous sex is part of the straight edge guideline but everyone makes up their own edge today so there is no more set guideline, why dont you just go eat a steak you'll feel alot better, promise! ; )

no. and no.

xsecx
07-11-2005, 08:06 PM
well i was under the impresion that it was no sex with out love or no premiscuous sex ya know the whole sex rule thing... is it corny to qoute minor threat on this one? dont smoke dont drink dont fuck... what the hell did you think it meant? i guess its ok to make up your own rules now-a-days so can you be straight edge ans smoke cigarettes or drink only on the weekends? well only if you listen to hardcore its ok

#1, go listen to that song and listen to the part where he talks about this isn't a set of rules.
#2, find me a bunch of other references to fucking around within the scene.

XuntaintdbloodX
07-12-2005, 08:37 AM
#1, go listen to that song and listen to the part where he talks about this isn't a set of rules.
#2, find me a bunch of other references to fucking around within the scene.

what do you mean? because there are alot of sights that have no drugs alcohol or premiscuous sex as part of their straight edge " explanation" is no prem. sex then why no smoking how bout i trade one for the other i wont have sex anymore but i will start smoking that way i can still keep my edge. why is sex a lesser concern premiscous sex has way more short term effects then smoking or drinking if you get an STD or pregnancy.

xsecx
07-12-2005, 09:16 AM
what do you mean? because there are alot of sights that have no drugs alcohol or premiscuous sex as part of their straight edge " explanation" is no prem. sex then why no smoking how bout i trade one for the other i wont have sex anymore but i will start smoking that way i can still keep my edge. why is sex a lesser concern premiscous sex has way more short term effects then smoking or drinking if you get an STD or pregnancy.

yeah, because sex somehow makes sense when you're talking in terms of drugs and alcohol. Sex doesn't fit in and doesn't make sense and is only applied by people who listened to only part of out of step and not the whole song. Now, go back and read my post again.

SgtD
07-12-2005, 10:23 AM
i don't even need to reply to this, everything has been said (again)

xsecx
08-15-2005, 09:35 AM
#1, go listen to that song and listen to the part where he talks about this isn't a set of rules.
#2, find me a bunch of other references to fucking around within the scene.

I'm gonna guess that this is what the little moron was trying to talk about. Of course what I was talking about was what is actually said within the song out of step and not at all about straight edge in general. Sweet baby jesus kid, you're a fucking idiot.

kelly
08-15-2005, 11:59 AM
I'm gonna guess that this is what the little moron was trying to talk about. Of course what I was talking about was what is actually said within the song out of step and not at all about straight edge in general. Sweet baby jesus kid, you're a fucking idiot.
I guess they'll let anyone graduate from high school these days.

XuntaintdbloodX
08-15-2005, 02:05 PM
I'm gonna guess that this is what the little moron was trying to talk about. Of course what I was talking about was what is actually said within the song out of step and not at all about straight edge in general. Sweet baby jesus kid, you're a fucking idiot.
all hail sec the guy who can take whatever was said before him a form it to fit his point of view...ok i did some research home boy...so the song doesnt say straight edge that doesnt mean its not about it, and it doesnt say anything about it being a set of rules or not... what ever i can think what ever i want my views dont get changed to easily by people trying to force them on me. why cant you just let people think what they want and correct them if they ask for it, i'm not talking about myself, your not real to me just a computer screen, but you yell at people way to much and put them down you should lighten up...

kelly
08-15-2005, 02:08 PM
all hail sec the guy who can take whatever was said before him a form it to fit his point of view...ok i did some research home boy...so the song doesnt say straight edge that doesnt mean its not about it, and it doesnt say anything about it being a set of rules or not... what ever i can think what ever i want my views dont get changed to easily by people trying to force them on me. why cant you just let people think what they want and correct them if they ask for it, i'm not talking about myself, your not real to me just a computer screen, but you yell at people way to much and put them down you should lighten up...
You found the period! Holy shit! P.S. - It's natural for Dusty to want to correct you when you're always so damn wrong about everything.

xsecx
08-15-2005, 02:11 PM
all hail sec the guy who can take whatever was said before him a form it to fit his point of view...ok i did some research home boy...so the song doesnt say straight edge that doesnt mean its not about it, and it doesnt say anything about it being a set of rules or not... what ever i can think what ever i want my views dont get changed to easily by people trying to force them on me. why cant you just let people think what they want and correct them if they ask for it, i'm not talking about myself, your not real to me just a computer screen, but you yell at people way to much and put them down you should lighten up...

How am I the one taking whatever was said before and changing it to fit my point of view, when you're the one doing just that?

have you actually, literally listened to the song? Both versions of the song? The fact that they recorded a second version just to add the line "now this isn't a set of rules"? You can think whatever you want, and you can and are wrong. When people spout bullshit they should be asked about it and corrected. If you don't like, it fine, then don't post your belief's or opinions, since you clearly aren't capable of discussing them.

XuntaintdbloodX
08-15-2005, 02:20 PM
How am I the one taking whatever was said before and changing it to fit my point of view, when you're the one doing just that?

have you actually, literally listened to the song? Both versions of the song? The fact that they recorded a second version just to add the line "now this isn't a set of rules"? You can think whatever you want, and you can and are wrong. When people spout bullshit they should be asked about it and corrected. If you don't like, it fine, then don't post your belief's or opinions, since you clearly aren't capable of discussing them.

the fact that you just called them opinons means i dont have to prove FACTS for them if i say i believe something there is no fact about it, anyone is capable of discussing them but forcing them it where you are wrong. it is your right to say i am wrong and i can say you are wrong neither of us is right, you arent religious i am, we both claim straight edge, how do you know you cant be straight edge unless you are religious, no songs said that, actually is there a song that says you cant be edge if you ARE religious?

xsecx
08-15-2005, 02:24 PM
the fact that you just called them opinons means i dont have to prove FACTS for them if i say i believe something there is no fact about it, anyone is capable of discussing them but forcing them it where you are wrong. it is your right to say i am wrong and i can say you are wrong neither of us is right, you arent religious i am, we both claim straight edge, how do you know you cant be straight edge unless you are religious, no songs said that, actually is there a song that says you cant be edge if you ARE religious?

Well no, an opinion should be based on facts, otherwise it's pretty useless. Which is part of the problem you're running into. You've formed these supposed opinions without gathering any facts, without thinking about them, and then you try and spout bullshit when asked about it. The only people that say that opinions can never be wrong, are the the people who don't actually think things through and use that as a flippant defense when they're backed into a corner. Have you ever even listed to minor threat? I have you ever even heard the song filler? Do you have some sort of weird mental block that makes it so you can't actually answer direct questions?

XuntaintdbloodX
08-15-2005, 02:34 PM
Well no, an opinion should be based on facts, otherwise it's pretty useless. Which is part of the problem you're running into. You've formed these supposed opinions without gathering any facts, without thinking about them, and then you try and spout bullshit when asked about it. The only people that say that opinions can never be wrong, are the the people who don't actually think things through and use that as a flippant defense when they're backed into a corner. Have you ever even listed to minor threat? I have you ever even heard the song filler? Do you have some sort of weird mental block that makes it so you can't actually answer direct questions?

ok no i have never heard minor threat, who cares that doesnt mean you cant learn about straight edge from something else, obviously it didnt mean anything cause i know at least brian baker sold out, it was a sign of the times people carry it on into the future and people get to obbsessed with it and try to change it themselves how out being more specific by telling me what questions i missed, what points i am not proving, and what opinions of mine you are having a hard time understanding

xsecx
08-15-2005, 02:38 PM
ok no i have never heard minor threat, who cares that doesnt mean you cant learn about straight edge from something else, obviously it didnt mean anything cause i know at least brian baker sold out, it was a sign of the times people carry it on into the future and people get to obbsessed with it and try to change it themselves how out being more specific by telling me what questions i missed, what points i am not proving, and what opinions of mine you are having a hard time understanding


woah. wait a minute. you've never heard minor threat, yet you're going to try and talk about a song who's lyrics you're taking as gospel? What else did you learn about straight edge then? What are you basing your beliefs on? What are some examples of things you've used to form your opinion on what straight edge is? What makes you think sex is such an important part of being straight edge?

XuntaintdbloodX
08-15-2005, 02:44 PM
woah. wait a minute. you've never heard minor threat, yet you're going to try and talk about a song who's lyrics you're taking as gospel? What else did you learn about straight edge then? What are you basing your beliefs on? What are some examples of things you've used to form your opinion on what straight edge is? What makes you think sex is such an important part of being straight edge?

i dont care, what the hell was the point of straight edge n the first place? so kids had something to cal themselves? to me it is general... no drugs no drinking and no premiscious sex, and i guess you HAVE TO BE hardcore or soemthing, you take things to far homes, fine if we cant be both wrong then we are both right to ourselves, this is a stalemate arguement whether i am educated or not cause im not going to change you and you are not going to chane me.

xsecx
08-15-2005, 02:47 PM
i dont care, what the hell was the point of straight edge n the first place? so kids had something to cal themselves? to me it is general... no drugs no drinking and no premiscious sex, and i guess you HAVE TO BE hardcore or soemthing, you take things to far homes, fine if we cant be both wrong then we are both right to ourselves, this is a stalemate arguement whether i am educated or not cause im not going to change you and you are not going to chane me.

how would you even know, when you haven't even looked at or heard anything from then? How do you have any clue what you're calling yourself, when you clearly don't know dick about it? Seriously, you've never heard minor threat. You've never heard the song that started it. Doesn't that strike you at all as making you a bit of an idiot? What are you basing your beliefs on? What source material are you getting what straight edge is an about, since it's clearly not hardcore and not from what actually started things.

this shit boggles my mind. you're going to call yourself straight edge, and literally not know the first thing about it.

XuntaintdbloodX
08-15-2005, 02:54 PM
how would you even know, when you haven't even looked at or heard anything from then? How do you have any clue what you're calling yourself, when you clearly don't know dick about it? Seriously, you've never heard minor threat. You've never heard the song that started it. Doesn't that strike you at all as making you a bit of an idiot? What are you basing your beliefs on? What source material are you getting what straight edge is an about, since it's clearly not hardcore and not from what actually started things.

this shit boggles my mind. you're going to call yourself straight edge, and literally not know the first thing about it.

well there is thing called a brain and all of us have one, depending on how this magical thing prosessed information is what makes us different, i could read one thing and compute it and you can compute it a totally different way, so when i read sxe is... then tell you how i interperited it, you must take it differently cause you keeping posting. boy am i tired

xsecx
08-15-2005, 02:57 PM
well there is thing called a brain and all of us have one, depending on how this magical thing prosessed information is what makes us different, i could read one thing and compute it and you can compute it a totally different way, so when i read sxe is... then tell you how i interperited it, you must take it differently cause you keeping posting. boy am i tired

are you seriously incapable of answering simple basic questions? I'll trying this one more time in easy to understand words.


What are you using as a basis to define straight edge? What is your source material? How/what taught you about straight edge?

XuntaintdbloodX
08-15-2005, 03:11 PM
are you seriously incapable of answering simple basic questions? I'll trying this one more time in easy to understand words.


What are you using as a basis to define straight edge? What is your source material? How/what taught you about straight edge?

web sites, lyrics, friends, forums i guess they were al wrong huh

xsecx
08-15-2005, 03:12 PM
web sites, lyrics, friends, forums i guess they were al wrong huh

like what, specifically.

kelly
08-15-2005, 03:12 PM
web sites, lyrics, friends, forums i guess they were al wrong huh
You never said what your definition of straightedge was, only where you got it.

XuntaintdbloodX
08-15-2005, 03:16 PM
You never said what your definition of straightedge was, only where you got it.

no, i did you came you late in the conversation must be

XuntaintdbloodX
08-15-2005, 03:20 PM
like what, specifically.

specifically... hmmm now i have to think... dont drink dont smoke dont have premiscuous sex, the basics, it was started my minor threat but his other band teen idols also had the same message with out calling themselves sxe, the whole posi youth movement, what else... uh, i didnt think it was a dub genre or whatever or hardcore, like you had to be a hardcore fan to be sxe but i guess you do, straight edge bands, i learned straight edge is global and i also learned that it is not a set of rules or a movement, but it is now. probably some other stuff but im just another misinformed youth

xsecx
08-15-2005, 03:22 PM
specifically... hmmm now i have to think... dont drink dont smoke dont have premiscuous sex, the basics, it was started my minor threat but his other band teen idols also had the same message with out calling themselves sxe, the whole posi youth movement, what else... uh, i didnt think it was a dub genre or whatever or hardcore, like you had to be a hardcore fan to be sxe but i guess you do, straight edge bands, i learned straight edge is global and i also learned that it is not a set of rules or a movement, but it is now. probably some other stuff but im just another misinformed youth

first, read this,
http://www.straightedge.com/whatissxe.html

then go and buy every band mentioned there.

listen to them

then come back and try and talk to me about straight edge.

kelly
08-15-2005, 04:00 PM
no, i did you came you late in the conversation must beOh, sorry, I didn't realize the incoherent rambling was a definition. Ah ha!

Digthehole
08-26-2005, 10:05 PM
Straight Edge, and sex are unrelated. Do whatever you want. You wanna scrog, scrog. you don't wanna scrog don't. Whatever you're comfortable with. Seriously i had this conversation with this nice young canadian chick who i stayed with the other night. She thought Straight Edge kids who were promiscuous were very interesting, but i had to explain to her they're really unrelated.

xsecx
08-26-2005, 10:06 PM
Straight Edge, and sex are unrelated. Do whatever you want. You wanna scrog, scrog. you don't wanna scrog don't. Whatever you're comfortable with. Seriously i had this conversation with this nice young canadian chick who i stayed with the other night. She thought Straight Edge kids who were promiscuous were very interesting, but i had to explain to her they're really unrelated.

now which one of your personalities would have done this exactly? the drug free adult one or the system of destruction one?

drughate_vegan
09-10-2005, 02:15 AM
Straight Edge, and sex are unrelated. Do whatever you want. You wanna scrog, scrog. you don't wanna scrog don't. Whatever you're comfortable with. Seriously i had this conversation with this nice young canadian chick who i stayed with the other night. She thought Straight Edge kids who were promiscuous were very interesting, but i had to explain to her they're really unrelated.
how is temptation different from temptation?

xsecx
09-10-2005, 08:38 AM
how is temptation different from temptation?

lots of things are temptation, doesn't mean it has anything todo with straight edge.

drughate_vegan
09-14-2005, 10:41 PM
lots of things are temptation, doesn't mean it has anything todo with straight edge.
temptation has nothing to do with straightedge?
then what does? besides the music?

xsecx
09-15-2005, 08:39 AM
temptation has nothing to do with straightedge?
then what does? besides the music?

do you enjoy talking in circles and not addressing what people actually ask you?