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Arian
10-14-2004, 02:43 PM
you guys are probably sick of explaining it but after reading all the info de the forum I still have some questions. Im not edge and i live in Brazil. There are no straight edges here so i cant really ask anyone! i was just wondering if being straight edge means you "HAVE" to be vegan. Because in the beggining i tough it was just about music and not doing drugs. If anyone could explain the other details about edge life id apreciate it =) sorry about my sucky english!

xsecx
10-14-2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Arian
you guys are probably sick of explaining it but after reading all the info de the forum I still have some questions. Im not edge and i live in Brazil. There are no straight edges here so i cant really ask anyone! i was just wondering if being straight edge means you "HAVE" to be vegan. Because in the beggining i tough it was just about music and not doing drugs. If anyone could explain the other details about edge life id apreciate it =) sorry about my sucky english!

explaining things is why this site is here.

no. there isn't a hard link between being vegan and being straight edge, even though there are a lot of people that are. there is also a really really big straight edge scene in brazil, so it might just be a matter of just not knowing where to look.

xdaddydaycorex
10-14-2004, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by xsecx
explaining things is why this site is here.

no. there isn't a hard link between being vegan and being straight edge, even though there are a lot of people that are. there is also a really really big straight edge scene in brazil, so it might just be a matter of just not knowing where to look.

D,where was that thread you answered that broke down the whole YOT starting vegeterianism and earthcrisis starting the vegan thing...that was good info , i was going to give this guy that link.

xdaddydaycorex
10-14-2004, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Arian
you guys are probably sick of explaining it but after reading all the info de the forum I still have some questions. Im not edge and i live in Brazil. There are no straight edges here so i cant really ask anyone! i was just wondering if being straight edge means you "HAVE" to be vegan. Because in the beggining i tough it was just about music and not doing drugs. If anyone could explain the other details about edge life id apreciate it =) sorry about my sucky english!

check out the band I Shot Cyrus, some members are from Straight Edge Warriors and Ratos De Porao. they are out of san paulo.

and NO you definatley NO NOT HAVE TO BE VEGAN to be straight edge!!!!

Arian
10-14-2004, 05:11 PM
ok so i know theres a big scene in Brazil, but not where i live (sorry for not making that clear) its kind of a small town. The scene here is emocore and metalcore (which i also enjoy). well ok so edge isnt just hardcore? cause i really like hc but its not the only thing i listen to. I ve been wanting to become sXe but no one has really explained it well and everybody argues about what is right and wrong in straight edge. so let me see if i got it right... straight edge is about enjoyng music and living a "clean" life ? btw ratos do porão arent togheter anymore but they made some pretty cool songs... mostly about meaningless stuff but they did =P thx for any help!

SgtD
10-15-2004, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by Arian
you guys are probably sick of explaining it but after reading all the info de the forum I still have some questions. Im not edge and i live in Brazil. There are no straight edges here so i cant really ask anyone! i was just wondering if being straight edge means you "HAVE" to be vegan. Because in the beggining i tough it was just about music and not doing drugs. If anyone could explain the other details about edge life id apreciate it =) sorry about my sucky english!

i have just talked to a brasil guy, and he told me that out there every sxe kid is vegan or vegetarian. and he also told me that they think who's sxe has to be vegan...funny reading the same here.:)

DcDuckee
10-15-2004, 03:49 PM
A vegan/sxe whos a few years older then me told me i wasnt straightedge because i eat meat and they put drugs into meat or something.

Gryphon
10-15-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by DcDuckee
A vegan/sxe whos a few years older then me told me i wasnt straightedge because i eat meat and they put drugs into meat or something.

Well they definatly put hormons in meat along with a hell of a lot of Antibiotics so if you dont want that crap in your system, but you want to eat meat there is usually places that will sell hormone free milk/ meat (which is also free range.) I am vegan for other reasons than that alone so it depends on the person

xsecx
10-15-2004, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Gryphon
Well they definatly put hormons in meat along with a hell of a lot of Antibiotics so if you dont want that crap in your system, but you want to eat meat there is usually places that will sell hormone free milk/ meat (which is also free range.) I am vegan for other reasons than that alone so it depends on the person

yeah but the same is said unless you're eating a purely organic diet of any kind.

Gryphon
10-15-2004, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by xsecx
yeah but the same is said unless you're eating a purely organic diet of any kind.

exactly.

xdaddydaycorex
10-15-2004, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by xsecx
yeah but the same is said unless you're eating a purely organic diet of any kind.

this is exactly why my wife and i are making sure our baby eats Both organic and non organic foods, because ultimatly she will most likely be exposed to more and more additives and preservatives in her later life and we don't want her system to have a problem with them. not always, but quite often babies raised on pure organics and no animal products ,esp. cows milk, from birth develop real problems with milk and preservatives later in life. we feel she should be able to choose the lifestyle she wants when she is older but for now she will be moderately exposed to both animal products and non organic foods.

Gryphon
10-15-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by XracerX
this is exactly why my wife and i are making sure our baby eats Both organic and non organic foods, because ultimatly she will most likely be exposed to more and more additives and preservatives in her later life and we don't want her system to have a problem with them. not always, but quite often babies raised on pure organics and no animal products ,esp. cows milk, from birth develop real problems with milk and preservatives later in life. we feel she should be able to choose the lifestyle she wants when she is older but for now she will be moderately exposed to both animal products and non organic foods.

Thats prolly a very good idea and I am sure you are allowing her to get dirty as well and not be one of those "everything has to be antibacterial" kind of parents.. That way she will build up her own immune system too..

I was raised on Hormon milk/meat, but I just lost all taste for it later in life.

How old is your lil'un?

Arian
10-16-2004, 11:58 PM
i have just talked to a brasil guy, and he told me that out there every sxe kid is vegan or vegetarian. and he also told me that they think who's sxe has to be vegan...funny reading the same here.:)

yeah everyone says that here! at least the ones that just mildly know what sXe is (like me unfortunetly). Its just that from what i`ve read straight-edge has "grown" from the original idea of punk music without getting drunk or high and screwing around. Basicly if seem people just add what they think will improve their lives even more(making them more clean and healthy). or am I way of?

xsecx
10-17-2004, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by Arian
yeah everyone says that here! at least the ones that just mildly know what sXe is (like me unfortunetly). Its just that from what i`ve read straight-edge has "grown" from the original idea of punk music without getting drunk or high and screwing around. Basicly if seem people just add what they think will improve their lives even more(making them more clean and healthy). or am I way of?

it's like anything else that isn't under control by one central body. people can do and say what they want about it. however. the majority of people involved worldwide still believe that straight edge has nothing to do with diet and that to be straight edge you have to listen to hardcore.

xdaddydaycorex
10-18-2004, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Gryphon
Thats prolly a very good idea and I am sure you are allowing her to get dirty as well and not be one of those "everything has to be antibacterial" kind of parents.. That way she will build up her own immune system too..

I was raised on Hormon milk/meat, but I just lost all taste for it later in life.

How old is your lil'un?

yeah , you can only keep a house that has two big dogs and a cat so clean, so she definately gets her share of dirty dog licks and stuff for sure.

she is 6 months old and her name is Stella Francis.

Arian
10-19-2004, 12:32 AM
Originally posted by xsecx
it's like anything else that isn't under control by one central body. people can do and say what they want about it. however. the majority of people involved worldwide still believe that straight edge has nothing to do with diet and that to be straight edge you have to listen to hardcore.

i agree that you have to listo to hardcore but not hc exclusively. Especialy in my case where I live in a diferent country and most hardcore and sxe hardcore is really hard to get . In fact the only international hardcore cds i have are two Vitamin X cds and 1 scholastic deth (scholastic deths members are edge but i dont know if the band is ) the rest are all national (Colligere , I shot Cyrus , xmy eyes burnx, xconfrontox, check them out their great)so i like to listen to metalcore also (xOnBrokenWingsx , Evergreen Terrace , as i lay dying.. ) they have a lot of edge members also but dont know if their edge. anyways thanks for all the info ... other sites people would just tell me to die and call me a "faggot" because im not edge (wanting to become tough)

xsecx
10-19-2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Arian
i agree that you have to listo to hardcore but not hc exclusively. Especialy in my case where I live in a diferent country and most hardcore and sxe hardcore is really hard to get . In fact the only international hardcore cds i have are two Vitamin X cds and 1 scholastic deth (scholastic deths members are edge but i dont know if the band is ) the rest are all national (Colligere , I shot Cyrus , xmy eyes burnx, xconfrontox, check them out their great)so i like to listen to metalcore also (xOnBrokenWingsx , Evergreen Terrace , as i lay dying.. ) they have a lot of edge members also but dont know if their edge. anyways thanks for all the info ... other sites people would just tell me to die and call me a "faggot" because im not edge (wanting to become tough)

no problem. it's why I made the site. the other sites for some reason don't actually answer anyones question and make people feel really stupid for asking.

if people only listened to hardcore and had to, i think things would end up really stale and kind of pointless.

veganedge
10-19-2004, 01:13 PM
I agree with xsecx.... I think you got the right idea brazil kid... just go for it...... the only reason there is such a link between sxe and veganism is because of personal choice. Those who choose to be drug free will more likely than the mainstream people want to eat better and not support cruelty... but as said before it is totally separate from the sxe movement. So good luck. Keep asking questions.

xsecx
10-19-2004, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by veganedge
I agree with xsecx.... I think you got the right idea brazil kid... just go for it...... the only reason there is such a link between sxe and veganism is because of personal choice. Those who choose to be drug free will more likely than the mainstream people want to eat better and not support cruelty... but as said before it is totally separate from the sxe movement. So good luck. Keep asking questions.

If I had to guess I'd say it probably has a lot to do with all the touring Earth Crisis did in brazil.

xaspirinx
11-03-2004, 04:36 PM
hmm...well I think veganism (and other topics like pro life and krishna or religion itself) can't be separated that easily from straight edge (today)...that means not that everyone has to tackle these topics practicly but everyone has to tackle them theoreticly...that's why straight edge isn't just being drug free..it's an "individualistic lifestyle" because of thinking and not "mass individualism" without thinking and because once there was a band called minor thread that appointed the rules of this game without opportunities to develop and to extend...if you decided for yourself that you want to life a lifestyle with responsibility for yourself and for others then you have to think about things like veganism and so it's part of straight edge...turning vegan that's an other thing...I think is wrong to see in this "drugfree promiscuos sex bla" the one and only stereotype of straight edge...just because of the roots...there are many facettes with practising or without practising them you are not more or less straight edge than other kids..it's just your personal interpretation...and sometimes the "scene" is constricting itself by its strict definitions (that passes for both sides..the "oldschoolers" (sorry, I can't mention a better expression at the moment) and these "new" strict and militant vegan-sxe kids)..it's what's on the people's mind...(implementation of thoughts and oppinions has a lot to do with discipline...but that's another discussion...and I'm sure you have already discussed more than necessary about turning vegan..vegan yes or no and whatever...)

well..a composition of English words..I hope it's not too confusing and there aren't too many mistakes...:)

straightXed
11-03-2004, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by xaspirinx
hmm...well I think veganism (and other topics like pro life and krishna or religion itself) can't be separated that easily from straight edge (today)...that means not that everyone has to tackle these topics practicly but everyone has to tackle them theoreticly...that's why straight edge isn't just being drug free..it's an "individualistic lifestyle" because of thinking and not "mass individualism" without thinking and because once there was a band called minor thread that appointed the rules of this game without opportunities to develop and to extend...if you decided for yourself that you want to life a lifestyle with responsibility for yourself and for others then you have to think about things like veganism and so it's part of straight edge...turning vegan that's an other thing...I think is wrong to see in this "drugfree promiscuos sex bla" the one and only stereotype of straight edge...just because of the roots...there are many facettes with practising or without practising them you are not more or less straight edge than other kids..it's just your personal interpretation...and sometimes the "scene" is constricting itself by its strict definitions (that passes for both sides..the "oldschoolers" (sorry, I can't mention a better expression at the moment) and these "new" strict and militant vegan-sxe kids)..it's what's on the people's mind...(implementation of thoughts and oppinions has a lot to do with discipline...but that's another discussion...and I'm sure you have already discussed more than necessary about turning vegan..vegan yes or no and whatever...)

well..a composition of English words..I hope it's not too confusing and there aren't too many mistakes...:)

Its Minor ThreaT and they didn't appoint any rules as such they just had other songs people chose to interpret.

xsecx
11-03-2004, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by xaspirinx
hmm...well I think veganism (and other topics like pro life and krishna or religion itself) can't be separated that easily from straight edge (today)...that means not that everyone has to tackle these topics practicly but everyone has to tackle them theoreticly...that's why straight edge isn't just being drug free..it's an "individualistic lifestyle" because of thinking and not "mass individualism" without thinking and because once there was a band called minor thread that appointed the rules of this game without opportunities to develop and to extend...if you decided for yourself that you want to life a lifestyle with responsibility for yourself and for others then you have to think about things like veganism and so it's part of straight edge...turning vegan that's an other thing...I think is wrong to see in this "drugfree promiscuos sex bla" the one and only stereotype of straight edge...just because of the roots...there are many facettes with practising or without practising them you are not more or less straight edge than other kids..it's just your personal interpretation...and sometimes the "scene" is constricting itself by its strict definitions (that passes for both sides..the "oldschoolers" (sorry, I can't mention a better expression at the moment) and these "new" strict and militant vegan-sxe kids)..it's what's on the people's mind...(implementation of thoughts and oppinions has a lot to do with discipline...but that's another discussion...and I'm sure you have already discussed more than necessary about turning vegan..vegan yes or no and whatever...)

well..a composition of English words..I hope it's not too confusing and there aren't too many mistakes...:)

all the additional things you've listed were phases that the people in scene went through but that really aren't that relevant now. Militant vegan edge bands don't really exist anymore. Krshna bands don't either.

Why do you feel that people should try and incorporate other aspects of their lives with straight edge?

veganedge
11-03-2004, 08:59 PM
Militant vegan edge is coming back man

Look at the Total Liberation tour....

But I feel that vegan and other things, and edge are completely different. But a lot of people choose to live a vegan edge lifestyle, because they just learn a lot about both by being in one scene or the other.

xaspirinx
11-04-2004, 05:35 AM
"all the additional things you've listed were phases that the people in scene went through but that really aren't that relevant now. Militant vegan edge bands don't really exist anymore. Krshna bands don't either. "


hmm..people in scene went through..aren't that relevant now..really??..that was sad!!..it sounds a little like that these aspect had been just a temporary part of the straight edge movement..well for me that are basic aspects...do these aspect depend on bands??..that are singing about them??..now??..I think the kids are independant enough to think and not just thinking about what their heroes on the stage told them...and why not listen back to old bands??..(like always listening back to minor threattttttttttt (oh..bad mistake:))..well..and in addition..I know a lot of kids that are really active in this veganism blabla thing and fight for it...so it has to matter...:))

"Why do you feel that people should try and incorporate other aspects of their lives with straight edge?"

I just can offer you the question why not??does this harm??no!!it just opens your mind!!and does not everyone try to be open-minded??I didn't say everyone has to "live" these aspects that's everyone's personal choice and I respect it..but..yes...I exspect that everyone think about these aspects...and well, I think I can exspect this..I'm not militant and 90% of my family and my friends are "sausage eaters" and of course I don't outcast them..:))...and I think as a sxe kid you want to take responsibility for yourself and others and so you can't close your eyes...

xsecx
11-04-2004, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by xaspirinx
"all the additional things you've listed were phases that the people in scene went through but that really aren't that relevant now. Militant vegan edge bands don't really exist anymore. Krshna bands don't either. "


hmm..people in scene went through..aren't that relevant now..really??..that was sad!!..it sounds a little like that these aspect had been just a temporary part of the straight edge movement..well for me that are basic aspects...do these aspect depend on bands??..that are singing about them??..now??..I think the kids are independant enough to think and not just thinking about what their heroes on the stage told them...and why not listen back to old bands??..(like always listening back to minor threattttttttttt (oh..bad mistake:))..well..and in addition..I know a lot of kids that are really active in this veganism blabla thing and fight for it...so it has to matter...:))

"Why do you feel that people should try and incorporate other aspects of their lives with straight edge?"

I just can offer you the question why not??does this harm??no!!it just opens your mind!!and does not everyone try to be open-minded??I didn't say everyone has to "live" these aspects that's everyone's personal choice and I respect it..but..yes...I exspect that everyone think about these aspects...and well, I think I can exspect this..I'm not militant and 90% of my family and my friends are "sausage eaters" and of course I don't outcast them..:))...and I think as a sxe kid you want to take responsibility for yourself and others and so you can't close your eyes...

yeah, but it was something people in the scene went through, not necessarily the scene itself. Most of the hardline dudes are muslim now, but that doesn't automatically translate back.

If it's a personal choice, then why shouldn't it exist outside? WHy should straight edge incorporate everything you care about? People should be open minded and multfaceted, but they should also be diverse. By combining everything you end up interacting with a smaller and smaller crowd. You also end up with a term that is so watered down that it ceases to actually mean anything.

xaspirinx
11-04-2004, 02:41 PM
hmm..well, I think a problem of this nice discussion here is the fact that there's no definition of "scene". What's yours, what's mine??I think the distance between the continents matters a lot.
I dare to say (don't shoot me) straight edge is quite a hype in the USA or a way many (not all!!) kids choose just because you have these really strict drug-smoking-drinking laws and consuming drugs even legal drugs isn't accepted by society (you have this really strong anti-smoking campaigns etc.). Here the kids don't have that problems with consuming drugs cause alcohol is an important part of the so called "culture" and nobody really cares. And that's why when you choose sxe you "question society" and with questioning society there's of course this ethical question about consuming animals. So I dare to say that sxe and vegetarian/vegan diet goes (more) hand in hand here (of course not in general, we also have something like a "hype" of emo-hc-sxe in the West/Ruhr area, but concerning to the sxe kids I know). Well, a teenager that is drug free is absolutely unusual here, and even just by choosing the sxe your kind of a "hardliner". I hope it's clear what I want to express, it's a different situation but it's what my argumentation is based on. So I think this discussion won't take us anywhere cause I better don't judge about your "scene" and you about mine, but that's ok..:))

xsecx
11-04-2004, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by xaspirinx
hmm..well, I think a problem of this nice discussion here is the fact that there's no definition of "scene". What's yours, what's mine??I think the distance between the continents matters a lot.
I dare to say (don't shoot me) straight edge is quite a hype in the USA or a way many (not all!!) kids choose just because you have these really strict drug-smoking-drinking laws and consuming drugs even legal drugs isn't accepted by society (you have this really strong anti-smoking campaigns etc.). Here the kids don't have that problems with consuming drugs cause alcohol is an important part of the so called "culture" and nobody really cares. And that's why when you choose sxe you "question society" and with questioning society there's of course this ethical question about consuming animals. So I dare to say that sxe and vegetarian/vegan diet goes (more) hand in hand here (of course not in general, we also have something like a "hype" of emo-hc-sxe in the West/Ruhr area, but concerning to the sxe kids I know). Well, a teenager that is drug free is absolutely unusual here, and even just by choosing the sxe your kind of a "hardliner". I hope it's clear what I want to express, it's a different situation but it's what my argumentation is based on. So I think this discussion won't take us anywhere cause I better don't judge about your "scene" and you about mine, but that's ok..:))

it's the same bands that are playing on both sides of the pond. There are things that are universal, especially now with near instant communication.

I think it's really interesting that you think the majority of people here don't drink or do drugs based on no smoking in public area laws? You get enough of our culture via tv and movies, do you think all of that is based on something that doesn't exist? Movies set in colleges where kids drink and have huge parites are closer to reality than they are fiction.

You can question society through sexuality. Is that linked? The only thing that it has in common is that you want them to be in common. I'm sure that not all people that are vegetarian or vegan there are drug free. If it goes one way, then why not the other?

xaspirinx
11-04-2004, 04:43 PM
hmm..interesting...

"it's the same bands that are playing on both sides of the pond. There are things that are universal, especially now with near instant communication."

it's not that easy..really not...
of course bands come abroad...but they play 3 or 4 shows where's the sxe scene and that's mostly located in the Western area..there are a lot of hc shows in the whole country..of course..but many hc kids take the view of "come on..it's weekend let's go to a show and have fun but pleeease enjoying a band that is not talking about no drugs and animal rights...I want to have fun"...but of course you can put a record on..that's for sure ...instant communication??..well..nice for sharing contacts, getting information, even learning..whatever..but I think if you're back to reality or "at home" it's different...the basic idea of straight edge is of course the same, of course...we don't do something absolutely different..no..never!!but there's a difference between the society of the USA and the society of Europe...and that has an impact on everyone..even on sxe kids...:)))

"I think it's really interesting that you think the majority of people here don't drink or do drugs based on no smoking in public area laws? You get enough of our culture via tv and movies, do you think all of that is based on something that doesn't exist? Movies set in colleges where kids drink and have huge parites are closer to reality than they are fiction."

Well, I've been to USA and I think I'm able to say that you have really strict laws and a strict control of them. Of course there are junkies in every country and there are ways to avoid control and abuse of drugs by middle class people etc. but there's such a biiig voice against drugs and consciousness in society, it really impressed me. Well, and of course we know here about what's going on on spring break etc. but for us it's nothing special (it's just special because you don't exspect something like this from such a prudish and moral country...but in the media here it's alway explained by "oh the students there want to run away from their moral and opressed life as a us citizen)..but 12-16 years old kids here have this spring break (ok, without the sex orgies..:)) every weekend (and that's sad)!Meanwhile, it's common to have 1 litre of wodka per night or to drink alcohol through a tube...until you wake up in hospital. Or smoking in public..nobody cares...I think we're closer to reality than you think...:))

"You can question society through sexuality. Is that linked? The only thing that it has in common is that you want them to be in common."

ähm..sorry for my English..but I don't really understand what you mean..may you formulate it more easily..??..please..:)))


"I'm sure that not all people that are vegetarian or vegan there are drug free. If it goes one way, then why not the other?"

hmm..(I concern it to vegetarian/vegan punk/hc kids...not to the green..organic..alternative scene...cause that's another thing..)..well..the other way..I give you the example of myself...I turned vegan before I turned straight edge...after being vegetarian for about 6 years...well I (and a lot of people I know have the same motivation) was vegan and not drug free cause I coludn't accept that other "habitants" of this world in this case animals have to suffer because I wasn't willing to give up comfort..(that's of course a really simplified explanation..but I don't want to write a novel...and I know that I cannot avoid that someone has to suffer because of my existance..the only solution would be suicide...blablabla)...but I consumed drugs because IM responsible for MY life..and when I was drunken or stoned or whatever I was amusing but never a danger for other people's life..perhaps sometimes for mine..well..but I still have the oppinion that everyone is allowed to do whatever she/he wants with her/his life as far as it doesn't have a bad impact on other lifes...that's personal freedom...well I decided to turn straight edge because the people I used to hang out with had a serious drug problem but refused help and it really scarred me..I had enough of partying..I realized that I cannot run away from reality cause on daily life people and places were still boring...and well it just didn't take me anywhere..I wanted to be more productive...blablabla..so you see there's another way..you can do it in the "wrong" order...:))

xsecx
11-04-2004, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by xaspirinx

it's not that easy..really not...
of course bands come abroad...but they play 3 or 4 shows where's the sxe scene and that's mostly located in the Western area..there are a lot of hc shows in the whole country..of course..but many hc kids take the view of "come on..it's weekend let's go to a show and have fun but pleeease enjoying a band that is not talking about no drugs and animal rights...I want to have fun"...but of course you can put a record on..that's for sure ...instant communication??..well..nice for sharing contacts, getting information, even learning..whatever..but I think if you're back to reality or "at home" it's different...the basic idea of straight edge is of course the same, of course...we don't do something absolutely different..no..never!!but there's a difference between the society of the USA and the society of Europe...and that has an impact on everyone..even on sxe kids...:)))


I disagree. I also live with and am married to a european citizen. I also think that you have beliefs on the society of the US that aren't real.


Well, I've been to USA and I think I'm able to say that you have really strict laws and a strict control of them. Of course there are junkies in every country and there are ways to avoid control and abuse of drugs by middle class people etc. but there's such a biiig voice against drugs and consciousness in society, it really impressed me. Well, and of course we know here about what's going on on spring break etc. but for us it's nothing special (it's just special because you don't exspect something like this from such a prudish and moral country...but in the media here it's alway explained by "oh the students there want to run away from their moral and opressed life as a us citizen)..but 12-16 years old kids here have this spring break (ok, without the sex orgies..:)) every weekend (and that's sad)!Meanwhile, it's common to have 1 litre of wodka per night or to drink alcohol through a tube...until you wake up in hospital. Or smoking in public..nobody cares...I think we're closer to reality than you think...:))


Half the people on this site are from the US and under the age of 18 and I'm sure each of them would be pretty shocked at how you characterize things. You have this impression that America is a country with repressed morality and oppresive laws. The reality is quite different. We are the country that glamourized herion in the 60s and 70s and cocaine in the 80s and now. We are the country that gave the world crack. Spring break activities happen every weekend at colleges and high schools the only difference is that it's far from home.



ähm..sorry for my English..but I don't really understand what you mean..may you formulate it more easily..??..please..:)))


Ok. there are limits to questioning societal norms. There is no logical link between questioning alcohol and drug use and animal rights. There is no link between the societal norm of being hetero sexual and drug use, so if you're going to question society, why only those things?




hmm..(I concern it to vegetarian/vegan punk/hc kids...not to the green..organic..alternative scene...cause that's another thing..)..well..the other way..I give you the example of myself...I turned vegan before I turned straight edge...after being vegetarian for about 6 years...well I (and a lot of people I know have the same motivation) was vegan and not drug free cause I coludn't accept that other "habitants" of this world in this case animals have to suffer because I wasn't willing to give up comfort..(that's of course a really simplified explanation..but I don't want to write a novel...and I know that I cannot avoid that someone has to suffer because of my existance..the only solution would be suicide...blablabla)...but I consumed drugs because IM responsible for MY life..and when I was drunken or stoned or whatever I was amusing but never a danger for other people's life..perhaps sometimes for mine..well..but I still have the oppinion that everyone is allowed to do whatever she/he wants with her/his life as far as it doesn't have a bad impact on other lifes...that's personal freedom...well I decided to turn straight edge because the people I used to hang out with had a serious drug problem but refused help and it really scarred me..I had enough of partying..I realized that I cannot run away from reality cause on daily life people and places were still boring...and well it just didn't take me anywhere..I wanted to be more productive...blablabla..so you see there's another way..you can do it in the "wrong" order...:))

But how does that make them linked? Lots of things cause suffering, but human rights isn't part of straight edge. my point is that just because something is a moral belief, even a moral belief shared among many other straight edge people, it doesn't mean it's linked to straight edge. Every straight edge kid I know is anti-racism. That doesn't mean that straight edge itself is anti-racist. By including veganism into straight edge you are making a link that isn't there and isn't representative of a lot of people.

xaspirinx
11-04-2004, 06:49 PM
oh..help..that's always the problem with the interpretation of written words...especially in a language you aren't able to express like you want to

well...there's a difference between USA and Europe(or better Germany)...and I don't mean that just negatively or something like that...oh no...but you have much more development..everything is "bigger" not just the distances..people welcome people more friendly than here...here most people are much more sceptical about strangers...and you also fight more for your rights and your freedom...etc.......

BUT as you said..there's also another side..the drug development (I can't find a better expression)..perhaps you can add the weapon industry...and I also think..the USA is the country in the world that produces the most porns....etc.....BUT you also have a really big and powerfull conservative wing....perhaps even the most conservative wing in the world...(that showed the election to the rest of the world..)...I just wrote down an important aspect...and I cannot write down everything...and I didn't want to hurt any personal feelings or something...we all know that there's so much positive power in the usa...BUT we also see the world policy...so perhaps you can agree with the statement like "you're the country with the largest contrasts within"...??..


I think straight edge and veganism are linked by responsibility...as this sexual thing has more to do with solidarity..and it's solidarity why I demonstrate for this and less responsibility

and I never said..a sxe kid has to be vegan..no..I just said I exspect that a sxe kid thought about this but I accept every choice...it's just about the thinking...and because this topic has been mentioned in the lyrics of sxe bands..for me the dealing with this topic is part of my personal interpretation of sxe...of course I don't exspect that you accept this..but you may tolerate it....and the anti rascism thing...I think...it must be an implicitness for every human being...and actually there mustn't be any need to discuss this (although I know that's different on reality)...

so..well...enough for this night...it's pretty late here..so I going to get some sleep....

Sean The Red
11-04-2004, 09:22 PM
Originally posted by xsecx
I disagree. ....

whoa there buddy, (s)he has barely been here two weeks. You need to give them some practice, before you unleash your intellectual skills upon them. Let them have a practice a bit before you throw them into the ring.

xgregx
11-04-2004, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Sean The Red
whoa there buddy, (s)he has barely been here two weeks. You need to give them some practice, before you unleash your intellectual skills upon them. Let them have a practice a bit before you throw them into the ring.

or he could fuck with them now so (s)he is prepared for the future.

Sean The Red
11-05-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by xgregx
or he could fuck with them now so (s)he is prepared for the future.

thats like beating an infant so they will be prepared for bullies

xsecx
11-05-2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Sean The Red
thats like beating an infant so they will be prepared for bullies

what's wrong with that?

xsecx
11-05-2004, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by Sean The Red
whoa there buddy, (s)he has barely been here two weeks. You need to give them some practice, before you unleash your intellectual skills upon them. Let them have a practice a bit before you throw them into the ring.

why should I not speak my mind just because someone is new?

xsecx
11-05-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by xaspirinx
[B]oh..help..that's always the problem with the interpretation of written words...especially in a language you aren't able to express like you want to

well...there's a difference between USA and Europe(or better Germany)...and I don't mean that just negatively or something like that...oh no...but you have much more development..everything is "bigger" not just the distances..people welcome people more friendly than here...here most people are much more sceptical about strangers...and you also fight more for your rights and your freedom...etc.......


This is a matter of perception. People think that europe and the US are a lot more different than they are. Europeans also tend to think people are nicer here, when most americans are always amazed as how much nicer people seen in Europe. If you ask the average person here, we're the most skeptical people on earth. We lock our doors, we buy guns and dogs to guard our houses.



BUT as you said..there's also another side..the drug development (I can't find a better expression)..perhaps you can add the weapon industry...and I also think..the USA is the country in the world that produces the most porns....etc.....BUT you also have a really big and powerfull conservative wing....perhaps even the most conservative wing in the world...(that showed the election to the rest of the world..)...I just wrote down an important aspect...and I cannot write down everything...and I didn't want to hurt any personal feelings or something...we all know that there's so much positive power in the usa...BUT we also see the world policy...so perhaps you can agree with the statement like "you're the country with the largest contrasts within"...??..


The election was a close one and just about half wanted Bush gone. Most people disapprove of him, but still some people voted for him.
Another irony here is that in the US germany is FAMOUS for porn and for a love of David Hasselhoff.



I think straight edge and veganism are linked by responsibility...as this sexual thing has more to do with solidarity..and it's solidarity why I demonstrate for this and less responsibility


So why not recycling, nuclear power, organic living and lots of other things? There are tons of things that involve personal responsbility that doesn't make them all linked or even related. The majority of vegans aren't straight edge. And now I'd be willing to be the majority of straight edge kids aren't vegan.



and I never said..a sxe kid has to be vegan..no..I just said I exspect that a sxe kid thought about this but I accept every choice...it's just about the thinking...and because this topic has been mentioned in the lyrics of sxe bands..for me the dealing with this topic is part of my personal interpretation of sxe...of course I don't exspect that you accept this..but you may tolerate it....and the anti rascism thing...I think...it must be an implicitness for every human being...and actually there mustn't be any need to discuss this (although I know that's different on reality)...


Why should they have thought about it? You could easily listen to bands past and present and never hear a vegan or animal rights lyric. It was something lots of people in the scene cared about. Just like krshna. but it doesn't mean that everyone should have to think about whether or not they wanted to wear robes and chant.

Sean The Red
11-05-2004, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by xsecx
why should I not speak my mind just because someone is new?

I'm just saying you should go easy on them, they arent at your level.

Sean The Red
11-05-2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by xsecx
what's wrong with that?

I am framing that.

xsecx
11-05-2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Sean The Red
I'm just saying you should go easy on them, they arent at your level.

wheat from the chaff.

xgregx
11-05-2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by xsecx
what's wrong with that?

hahahaha holy fuck that made me laugh out loud.

xaspirinx
11-05-2004, 02:48 PM
"wheat from the chaff."

oh..well..hmm..I would call it "better-don't-start-a-controversial-discussion-with-the-administrator(owner??)-of-a-webside"..:))

..well..as I said..I don't exspect that you accepted my and only my personal interpretation but you may tolerate it..

..and well..I can calm you..I never told anybody about the link I (me personally and friends) see between sxe and veganism who questioned me about "what is meant by straight edge"..cause I alway knew what dangerous discussion (as you can see here) it is...so I never did harm...BUT I thought I could mention this interpretation in this forum here..to have a nice discussion..BUT not a battle fight..:))..but I take it for an honor..that you care so much about what this little girl far away is thinking..:))

..hmm...and to add...we could list all the "predjudices" about each other...about david hasselhoff (wasn't it the big hairy guy printed on the stickers you got by bying bubble gume who was allowed to share the same film set with pam and always had to wear these horrible red shorts and was singing this funny songs...sad person..I understand why he became an alcoholic..:)))..about spring break and locking doors...and then we could refute them..not because of hate..but because of improving comprehension...it would help a lot...seriously...

..hmm..I don't want to write more..but just some last sentences about the election thing.. "but still some people voted for him"..oh nice..just SOME people...a handful??...no...the majority of the voters...and I think you can call it MANY people and that's the truth...and these people are responsible that the rest of the world has to watch his face every evening news on the screen..for four more fucking years...I'm sorry for you guys..cause I'm sure that you didn't vote for him...but the others...the neighbours...whoever...

THE END...:))...(and please don't take every word that seriously..please..)

xsecx
11-05-2004, 02:57 PM
to bring it back focus to what was being discussed.

If I am in a straight edge band and I am a buddhist and I sing songs about both, does that make both linked?

If I am in a straight edge band and I an against people driving over the speed limit and I sing songs about both, does that make them both linked?

Also, I don't see how this is a batte. the "wheat from the chaff" was a joke. I do value your opinion and your words here.

xaspirinx
11-05-2004, 04:06 PM
hmm...refering to your example..the comparsion buddhism-speed limit...for me it's the same like the sxe-anti racism thing...it must be an implicitness for every human being..blabla..AND I think speed limit is even more difficult to compare because anti racism is more ore less a "lifestyle" (I hate this words perhaps I can use "engagement" in this context..??)...and controling speed or recycling are just actions..(but sometimes based on "lifestyle" ideals)...ähm..is it a little clear what I want or try to express..??:))
for me things like...buddhism..krishna..veganism..sxe are "lifestyles"...

sxe..buddhism..singing about both...

if you sing about both in one song...then they are linked by this song..yes:))...hmm...image this situation: a kid went to a show...and on the poster of the band was written down "straight edge hardcore from whatever..blablabla"...while enjoying the show...through the lyrics came phrases to his or her mind..like "don't use drugs...".."stop cosuming animals"..and perhaps some krishna or whatever aspects...well...and all this by the headline of "straight edge band"...for the kid it matters...hopefully he or she knows about the roots and that sxe is JUST about BEING DRUG FREE and this SEXUAL ASPECT..(and yes, I agree with this...of course)...but I think..because of situation like this and being confronted with topics like this on the stage of a band that is sxe THINKING (and not BEING) about these problems or DEALING WITH them is part of sxe (well...in my interpretation)...of course there are bands that sing about veganism and animal rights which are not sxe..ect. ...I just refer that argumentation to bands with a sxe background..lifestyle..and of course there are a sxe bands that have nothing to do with animal rights..vegetarian/vegan diet...but I dare to say..that even just if one member is a vegetarian/veganist (what is not that rare..)..animals are mentioned in the lyrics (even if it's just a tinytiny phrase...)...and I'm sure you will disagree..:))

well...and the "wheat from the chaff" thing...hmm..I'm glad..that's just a joke..cause one part of me wasn't sure..if you perhaps really are that hardline..was possible..cause I don't know you..and that's exactly what I called the "problem with written words"...you can interpret everything...nothing is clear as it is in a discussion face to face...marking or commenting phrases with :)))....;)))...is nerving..oh yes..but helps to avoid misunderstanding...

xsecx
11-05-2004, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by xaspirinx
hmm...refering to your example..the comparsion buddhism-speed limit...for me it's the same like the sxe-anti racism thing...it must be an implicitness for every human being..blabla..AND I think speed limit is even more difficult to compare because anti racism is more ore less a "lifestyle" (I hate this words perhaps I can use "engagement" in this context..??)...and controling speed or recycling are just actions..(but sometimes based on "lifestyle" ideals)...ähm..is it a little clear what I want or try to express..??:))
for me things like...buddhism..krishna..veganism..sxe are "lifestyles"...


Why must it be an implictness of every human being? Veganism is just a collection of actions.

how is veganism a lifestyle? Is vegetarianism a lifestyle? Is omnivorism a lifestyle? What does veganism have in common with the religions listed?



sxe..buddhism..singing about both...

if you sing about both in one song...then they are linked by this song..yes:))...hmm...image this situation: a kid went to a show...and on the poster of the band was written down "straight edge hardcore from whatever..blablabla"...while enjoying the show...through the lyrics came phrases to his or her mind..like "don't use drugs...".."stop cosuming animals"..and perhaps some krishna or whatever aspects...well...and all this by the headline of "straight edge band"...for the kid it matters...hopefully he or she knows about the roots and that sxe is JUST about BEING DRUG FREE and this SEXUAL ASPECT..(and yes, I agree with this...of course)...but I think..because of situation like this and being confronted with topics like this on the stage of a band that is sxe THINKING (and not BEING) about these problems or DEALING WITH them is part of sxe (well...in my interpretation)...of course there are bands that sing about veganism and animal rights which are not sxe..ect. ...I just refer that argumentation to bands with a sxe background..lifestyle..and of course there are a sxe bands that have nothing to do with animal rights..vegetarian/vegan diet...but I dare to say..that even just if one member is a vegetarian/veganist (what is not that rare..)..animals are mentioned in the lyrics (even if it's just a tinytiny phrase...)...and I'm sure you will disagree..:))


Why is thinking about things straight edge and not a function of hardcore? Are veganism and hardcore linked? The point is that because you are both, you associate them in your mind, when the reality is that the association isn't a real one. it's a common trait amongst some the members but that doesn't make it part of it.



well...and the "wheat from the chaff" thing...hmm..I'm glad..that's just a joke..cause one part of me wasn't sure..if you perhaps really are that hardline..was possible..cause I don't know you..and that's exactly what I called the "problem with written words"...you can interpret everything...nothing is clear as it is in a discussion face to face...marking or commenting phrases with :)))....;)))...is nerving..oh yes..but helps to avoid misunderstanding...

yeah. I'm way too tough to use smiley faces.

xaspirinx
11-05-2004, 05:39 PM
why is veganism a lifestyle and not vegetarianism and omnivorism...??...

well..that's because Veganism is no diet..:))

most people don't know the strict definitions...well..the diet which is usually called "vegetarian" is actually the diet of a veganist...the use of this expression is just pretty generous...

ovo-lacto vegetarian = someone who doesn't eat meat and fish but every other animal product (milk and egg products) and this is what most people call a vegetarian

ovo vegetarian = no meat, no fish, no milk but eggs

lacto vegetarian = no meat, no fish, no eggs but milk and milk products

vegetarian = no meat, no fish, no eggs, no milk, no honey = animal free diet

well..and a veganist is someone with a strict vegetarian diet BUT also avoids wearing leather wool etc. ...cosmetic tested on animals...animal substances in glue blablabla...living animal free as possible...so it's a lifestyle..:))

we'll answer the rest tomorrow..cause I have to get up very early..and it's late here...

discussing with that though guys like you are it's no fun..just hard work...:))

xsecx
11-05-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by xaspirinx
why is veganism a lifestyle and not vegetarianism and omnivorism...??...

well..that's because Veganism is no diet..:))

most people don't know the strict definitions...well..the diet which is usually called "vegetarian" is actually the diet of a veganist...the use of this expression is just pretty generous...

ovo-lacto vegetarian = someone who doesn't eat meat and fish but every other animal product (milk and egg products) and this is what most people call a vegetarian

ovo vegetarian = no meat, no fish, no milk but eggs

lacto vegetarian = no meat, no fish, no eggs but milk and milk products

vegetarian = no meat, no fish, no eggs, no milk, no honey = animal free diet

well..and a veganist is someone with a strict vegetarian diet BUT also avoids wearing leather wool etc. ...cosmetic tested on animals...animal substances in glue blablabla...living animal free as possible...so it's a lifestyle..:))

we'll answer the rest tomorrow..cause I have to get up very early..and it's late here...

discussing with that though guys like you are it's no fun..just hard work...:))

Main Entry: life·style
Pronunciation: 'lIf-'stI(&)l, -"stI(&)l
Function: noun
: the typical way of life of an individual, group, or culture

following that definition, then the rest are lifestyles as well. Also the logic doesn't work that vegans just avoid more things than vegetarians or omnivores that it's automatically a lifestyle and the others aren't.

The thing is, there are a bunch of hardcore kids that are vegans and not edge. There are a lot of hippies that are vegans and not edge. There are a lot of edge kids that aren't vegan. Trying to argue that there is a link based purely on association is impossible, especially when you want to ignore every other example of association.