Poison The Well, Saviours or sell outs?

[XconvergeX]

Thought i would like to see this question answered...
Need to see more people's opinions here...

I personally love them, but I think them signing to atlantic was a bit of a farse...

Although 'You Come Before You Is Great', I don't think another 'Opposite Of December' will come from them! One of my favourite albums of all time that is!

Start the discussion!

Scott
--x--

[xsecx]

Originally posted by XconvergeX
Thought i would like to see this question answered...
Need to see more people's opinions here...

I personally love them, but I think them signing to atlantic was a bit of a farse...

Although 'You Come Before You Is Great', I don't think another 'Opposite Of December' will come from them! One of my favourite albums of all time that is!

Start the discussion!

Scott
--x--

saviours of what? also I moved this from hardcore because, well. PTW isn't a hardcore band.

[straightXed]

Originally posted by XconvergeX
Thought i would like to see this question answered...
Need to see more people's opinions here...

I personally love them, but I think them signing to atlantic was a bit of a farse...

Although 'You Come Before You Is Great', I don't think another 'Opposite Of December' will come from them! One of my favourite albums of all time that is!

Start the discussion!

Scott
--x--

i've not heard much of their stuff, not my cup of tea from what i have heard.

[xgregx]

they are ok...Opposite of December is by far their best c.d...I liked them a while ago...but it is fun to listen to their c.d.'s once and a while...

[flame_still_burns]

me no like.

[xgregx]

Originally posted by flame_still_burns
me no like.

short. simple. and that is all that matters.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

the first day you play a show for money, is the day you sold out

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
the first day you play a show for money, is the day you sold out

is that a fact?

[xsecx]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
the first day you play a show for money, is the day you sold out

wow, you just know everything don't you?

[xsecx]

Originally posted by straightXed
is that a fact?

yeah dude. you shouldn't ever take money for gas or to record because you know, music doesn't cost anything to make.

[straightXed]

Originally posted by xsecx
yeah dude. you shouldn't ever take money for gas or to record because you know, music doesn't cost anything to make. they should pay us for taking time out to see how they have been spending their time.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

hahhahaha
i never said i knew everything




Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups



and who said selling out was a bad thing??
you say sell out like they just play for money and they are only inspired by money

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
hahhahaha
i never said i knew everything




Assumption is the mother of all f**k ups



and who said selling out was a bad thing??
you say sell out like they just play for money and they are only inspired by money

What do you think selling out actually is, because if you think getting paid for doing a show is selling out you are wrong.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

thats what selling out is to me

but playing just for money(not to make music) is whoring yourself out

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
thats what selling out is to me

but playing just for money(not to make music) is whoring yourself out

But they are making music, I mean for hardcore to stay around there needs to be a certain amount of money going around, even with the diy ethic there will be costs. A hardcore band will be on the road and playing shows in order to get the money to continue the tour, the ultimate goal will be to continue to play their music on their tour the immediate goal is to get the money to do so. It costs a band money to put out a record, should they make no profit from the time and effort put into that record? Would it be selling out?

Sure some bands will have set out to make a living from it, is it wrong to make a living from playing music? Should band members all work other jobs and use that to subsidise the losses made from playing shows and putting out records? The fact is we all whore ourselves out, if we have no capital we sell our labour, if you are working a 9 - 5 you have a price on your labour and your integrity isn't quite apparent as with a musician or an artist. Now i can see how that integrity diminishes as you look at it, like from the underground plays peoples living rooms hardcore band to the record company manurfactured money venture chart topping band but look how the message in the music and the music itself changes with that. Boy bands aren't big on integrity, these people are often in it for the money, its a job they enjoy, if they get to big for there boots they don't last, they don't last anyway. to me selling out is more about compomising ones integrity, like say for instance a name of a band was quite popular, minor threat perhaps, and they started doing big tours and released a new album, well thats completely selling out. Or if shai hulud started playing metal because it was more lucritive, that to me is selling out. A band will go through sound changes and remain the same band however, look at soia, they are a hard working band and they live off of that. They are kind of gig whores, i swear they are always playing, they make money so they can support their lifestyle with integrity, although their latest album sucked ass. I think selling out is definitely to do with integrity, how people see someones integrity and how they honestly see themselves, or is that just bollocks les?

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

once again i never said selling out was bad, it does become essential for bands to make money, but selling out is(to me) a period in a bands life where they begin to make profit, once again i never said this was a bad thing, how ever when bands pure motive is to make money, that is called whoring yourself

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
once again i never said selling out was bad, it does become essential for bands to make money, but selling out is(to me) a period in a bands life where they begin to make profit, once again i never said this was a bad thing, how ever when bands pure motive is to make money, that is called whoring yourself

sell·out
PRONUNCIATION: slout
NOUN: 1. The act of selling out. 2. An event for which all the tickets are sold. 3. Slang One who has betrayed one's principles or an espoused cause.

Its not about money, you can sell out without money even being an issue.


is everyone a whore? we live in a money based society, just living a simple life is whoring yourself as money is necessary.

[xsecx]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
once again i never said selling out was bad, it does become essential for bands to make money, but selling out is(to me) a period in a bands life where they begin to make profit, once again i never said this was a bad thing, how ever when bands pure motive is to make money, that is called whoring yourself

then where do you get money for equipment and recording? you have a very warped sense of things.

[xsecx]

Originally posted by straightXed
sell·out
PRONUNCIATION: slout
NOUN: 1. The act of selling out. 2. An event for which all the tickets are sold. 3. Slang One who has betrayed one's principles or an espoused cause.

Its not about money, you can sell out without money even being an issue.


is everyone a whore? we live in a money based society, just living a simple life is whoring yourself as money is necessary.

not when your parents pay for everything dude.

[straightXed]

Originally posted by xsecx
not when your parents pay for everything dude.

I never really had that pleasure.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

once again i never said selling out was bad and i basicaly said selling out becomes important for a band and is a part of the bands life when they begin to profit, so if i profit from a show i sold out(cashed some chips in) and you keeping saying "well where are they going to get money from?" well the answer is selling out, its not a bad thing its a period of a bands life, every almost every band does it(ones that dont like "trinity")

My band gets money(little amounts) from playing shows and selling merch, we are selling our art, we are selling out. its not a bad thing its nesscary if we are going to make it from kansas city to new york city.

I never labled any band whores

its hard to talk when we have different Defections so once again i will redefine "selling out" a period of a bands life when they begin to profit(by profit i mean each person gets their own money to spend, they arent profiting when they use it to buy a new amp or anything of that sort.

And yes we do live in a money based society but their is a Difference between a whore and artist, a whore would make a band for only to profit, i band a band becuase i love it sing, write, and perform(almost as self rewarding as skateboarding). I sure as hell dont live just to make money, do you live just to make money?, is money your pure motive of living? if your answer is yes, i would call you a whore

And yes my sense and thoughts are every fucked up, but it does do a whole lot of good when thinking or rethinking aws and acts.

they only thing my parents have realy paid for is this kds computer monitor.

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
once again i never said selling out was bad and i basicaly said selling out becomes important for a band and is a part of the bands life when they begin to profit, so if i profit from a show i sold out(cashed some chips in) and you keeping saying "well where are they going to get money from?" well the answer is selling out, its not a bad thing its a period of a bands life, every almost every band does it(ones that dont like "trinity")

My band gets money(little amounts) from playing shows and selling merch, we are selling our art, we are selling out. its not a bad thing its nesscary if we are going to make it from kansas city to new york city.

I never labled any band whores

its hard to talk when we have different Defections so once again i will redefine "selling out" a period of a bands life when they begin to profit(by profit i mean each person gets their own money to spend, they arent profiting when they use it to buy a new amp or anything of that sort.

And yes we do live in a money based society but their is a Difference between a whore and artist, a whore would make a band for only to profit, i band a band becuase i love it sing, write, and perform(almost as self rewarding as skateboarding). I sure as hell dont live just to make money, do you live just to make money?, is money your pure motive of living? if your answer is yes, i would call you a whore

And yes my sense and thoughts are every fucked up, but it does do a whole lot of good when thinking or rethinking aws and acts.

they only thing my parents have realy paid for is this kds computer monitor. yeah you have an ill concieved idea of what selling out actually is.

1. how is "One who has betrayed one's principles or an espoused cause" a good thing?

2. how is getting money to buy a new amp not profiting?

3. so is anyone who is making a living without art a whore?

4. whore ( P ) Pronunciation Key (hôr, hr)
n.
A prostitute.
A person considered sexually promiscuous.
A person considered as having compromised principles for personal gain.

how is someone who intends to make music purely for monetry gain a hore when held against the dictionary definition of the word whore?

it seems to me you are making up your own meanings to words, and your parents are such whores for profiting to buy stuff for you.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

well my band buys equipment for other band members so we all own 1/4 of it that money to use to buy more equipment it would be like selling cake then using that money to buy more cake batter

and i dont use the term selling out as you do(""One who has betrayed one's principles or an espoused cause" ) witch i think i said ealier

i never said if you make money your a whore, i would be a whore if i just wanted to make money and thats it, i think people should do what they enjoy to for a job, so you get paid for what you want to do

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

and to you answer your "well it says in the dictionary" questions

i dont use dictionary deff. witch i said before i even gave my own deff. serval times

my parents to work just to profit my dad cooks becuase he likes to cook and he was able to make a living out of it, he diddnt just say "hey cooks make lots of money so thats what im going to do, ill open a a bread and bagel shop"

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
well my band buys equipment for other band members so we all own 1/4 of it that money to use to buy more equipment it would be like selling cake then using that money to buy more cake batter

and i dont use the term selling out as you do(""One who has betrayed one's principles or an espoused cause" ) witch i think i said ealier

i never said if you make money your a whore, i would be a whore if i just wanted to make money and thats it, i think people should do what they enjoy to for a job, so you get paid for what you want to do

how is that not profiting just because its a collective profit doesnt mean its not profit.

yeah we've established you make up your own meanings but perhaps you should try using words that relate to the actual meaning, if i say selling out actually means going on a caribean cruise would you think that makes sense?

so a whore just wants to make money in order to buy stuff (probably crack) they don't do it just because they want to make money, they do it to support their lifestyle, like your parents do and like you will have to do. Whores don't sell themselves for money alone they sell themselves like everyone sells their labour. If you are doing it purely just for money how is that being a whore if principles have not been compromised?

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

all the money my band has made($678) has gone back into the band so i diddnt profit from it so i diddnt realy just get a chance to buy crack

and a whore once again is a someone that does somthing for money, if i want to be a fisher just to make money to becuase with no interset in it at all i wound be a whore

im sure money wasnt he only attraction to your job

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
and to you answer your "well it says in the dictionary" questions

i dont use dictionary deff. witch i said before i even gave my own deff. serval times

my parents to work just to profit my dad cooks becuase he likes to cook and he was able to make a living out of it, he diddnt just say "hey cooks make lots of money so thats what im going to do, ill open a a bread and bagel shop"

well why don't you use dictionary definitions and where did you say that you don't before giving your own definition?

And your fathers living is making profit, what a sell out, shit if he couldn't make a living doing that he'd have to be a whore.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

yea my dad sold out but hes not a whore he diddnt decide to do what he did for just money he was interseted in the best example of a whore would be ceo's or other biz. figures

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
all the money my band has made($678) has gone back into the band so i diddnt profit from it so i diddnt realy just get a chance to buy and crack

and a whore once again is a someone that does somthing for money, if i want to be a fisher just to make money to becuase with no interset in it at all i wound be a whore

hello, how is that money not profit, what you do with it doesn't matter its still profit and thats a fact.

A whore is not that, you are wrong, and you would be a fisherman, how much interest does a road sweeper have in road sweeping. You are just so wrong and arguing for arguments sake but with very poor arguments.

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
yea my dad sold out but hes not a whore he diddnt decide to do what he did for just money he was interseted in the best example of a whore would be ceo's or other biz. figures

unfortunatley not everyone gets that oppertunity, and people like clean toilets, you know all those whores that clean your toilets, or serving you in a shop, what a bunch of whores, well at least they are making a contribution yet to you they are whores, you just don't have a clue yet, wait till it all hits you.

[xsecx]

Originally posted by straightXed
hello, how is that money not profit, what you do with it doesn't matter its still profit and thats a fact.

A whore is not that, you are wrong, and you would be a fisherman, how much interest does a road sweeper have in road sweeping. You are just so wrong and arguing for arguments sake but with very poor arguments.

god ed, stop being such a chef. I mean shit, you're acting like a real groundskeeper. fucking crossing guard!

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

the deff. of profit is not money you better get you dictionary out.


and that money was put back in so none of us used that money for anything other than a band.

and ill argue as long as i want

and im not sure how much interest a road sweeper has in his job but ill be sure to ask next time

and this started with a music terms so lets try to keep them as music terms(i was forced to use an example from outside the music compainies)

sell out- musical artist thats gains profit from their art

whore- musical PERFORMER that gains profit from their art, but has no other interst in their job as a PERFORMER

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
the deff. of profit is not money you better get you dictionary out.

i never said it was but the money you made was profit, so you are wrong.....again.



and that money was put back in so none of us used that money for anything other than a band.
So its a collective profit, and you chose to invest it in your band, good thinking



and ill argue as long as i want

thats nice


and im not sure how much interest a road sweeper has in his job but ill be sure to ask next time

well this road sweeper actually plays in a band but hes a filthy little whore that sweeps roads by day because he can't pay rent from the money his band makes.


and this started with a music terms so lets try to keep them as music terms(i was forced to use an example from outside the music compainies)
i have no idea what you are talking about, but hey its probably a new definition.


sell out- musical artist thats gains profit from their art thats not selling out kid


whore- musical PERFORMER that gains profit from their art, but has no other interst in their job as a PERFORMER

thats also wrong.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

once again musical terms

and once again my told my opinion is worng by another opinion



this argument never was a right or worng argument, this whole damn time ive been trying to explain my views and its been hard for you to see that

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
once again musical terms

and once again my told my opinion is worng by another opinion



this argument never was a right or worng argument, this whole damn time ive been trying to explain my views and its been hard for you to see that

its a definite fact, you want to give words new meanings go ahead, but i will still say your definitions of them are wrong.

i see your views but you are unable to accept some simple facts

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

what facts?

i havnt seen any of those words defined as music terms by you

youve probley went www.dictionary.com and copied and pasted a few things on to the screen i dont want their defitions i want yours not some english teachers

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

define these word the best you can

harny harn-

dubs-

bkid-

hook-

nar nar-

336-

337-

5c-

gcist-

pindle-

hacker-

hardcore mfing am-

wa wa-

norm-

jor jor-

conage(not a typeo)-

futher down-

suckle-

pretour-

i use these all daily and i bet you cant get five of them right
my point is people use words differently and sell out and whore i use in a diff. way in a musical term way, look right in front of you thats where the answer is at

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
what facts?

i havnt seen any of those words defined as music terms by you

youve probley went www.dictionary.com and copied and pasted a few things on to the screen i dont want their defitions i want yours not some english teachers

the fact is thats how the language works, a word has a definition. We have a dictionary so we all use these words accordingly, otherwise it would be mass confusion. Those are my definitions, i am able to convey my points with the english language as its meant to be and not have to say one word and then say well actually i mean this.

Are you looking to make a new language? Those words and their definitions are applicable to music, art, media, law or whatever you so choose, thats whats good about language.

anyway its 130am so i am going to sleep now, in musical terms that means i am going to sleep now.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

some of those words up their are real words others with latin or greek orgins

and if you cant belive that people have diff. deff. for words thats a sad thing

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
define these word the best you can

harny harn-

dubs-

bkid-

hook-

nar nar-

336-

337-

5c-

gcist-

pindle-

hacker-

hardcore mfing am-

wa wa-

norm-

jor jor-

conage(not a typeo)-

futher down-

suckle-

pretour-

i use these all daily and i bet you cant get five of them right
my point is people use words differently and sell out and whore i use in a diff. way in a musical term way, look right in front of you thats where the answer is at

lovely, i speak english by the way, are you able to comunicate in that language? but just for you....

igrope mandkinr oversneetvert cas el la moutigo arew blity.

uype tws tawt sd9oo uoy oh my heyrt hwat an kbon!!!!

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
some of those words up their are real words others with latin or greek orgins

and if you cant belive that people have diff. deff. for words thats a sad thing

well you found it incrediblt hard to accept a dictionary definition of a word, thats pretty sad is it not?

[xsecx]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
some of those words up their are real words others with latin or greek orgins

and if you cant belive that people have diff. deff. for words thats a sad thing

and if you don't understand that there is a reason why dictionaries exist, then that's a sad thing. you can believe all you want what a word means, but if the dictionary doesn't agree, then you're wrong. that's the entire point of having authority. you are not an authority, but the dictionary is.

[straightXed]

and the fact remains that selling out is a word with a meaning in the dictionary, often applied to artists but with a different defintion to yours, it has a universal meaning, one that all people can access and understand.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

look a few pages back i said these are my deffitions

and i think its sad that you cant belive that people have different meanings for words example "he is pissed" over in europe its used as beening drunk here it means your mad or upset(basing this on a two week stay in manchester)

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
look a few pages back i said these are my deffitions

and i think its sad that you cant belive that people have different meanings for words example "he is pissed" over in europe its used as beening drunk here it means your mad or upset(basing this on a two week stay in manchester)

i can vouch for the meaning being english myself, but a) its slang and b) words have multiple definitions but yours weren't there.

there are colloquialisms but these to are taken into account in a dictionary hence this entry for your word pissed:

1. [adj] (slang) very drunk
2. [adj] aroused to impatience or anger; "made an irritated gesture"; "feeling nettled from the constant teasing"; "peeved about being left out"; "felt really pissed at her snootiness"; "riled no end by his lies"; "roiled by the delay"

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

what happend to bye im going to bed?

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

im writing my own damn dictionary by the way, and ill post it

you should check it out, it would clear the crap up much much quicker than norm, becuase hes a dirty 5c

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
what happend to bye im going to bed?

well i really am now, my eyes are drying over, i'm just talking to lindsey about some stuff. and have fun writing your dictionary, what are you going to call your new language?

I read a bit of the klingon dictionary once, i'll keep to english thanks.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

i think ill call it newspeak
haha

[xTwoStepx]

Sounds like some people think that hardcore bands are just side-projects for kids with jobs. Currently, I am 16 years old, unemployed (Though if a band goes mainstream, or sometimes even if it doesn't, a band can be considered a job as long as you're getting paid) and in a starting-band and I gaurantee that all the shows that I do will cost something to get in. You have to pay to rent a place out (if you don't do a show in your basement or something), gas money, new equipment. Bands cost a lot of money, esspecially when on tour. To me, selling out is just going back on something you've said. Like if someone claims edge, then goes and smokes pot, that's selling out. If a hardcore band charges money for a show, that's not selling out, that's making a profit.
That's just my opinion though.

[straightXed]

Originally posted by xTwoStepx
Sounds like some people think that hardcore bands are just side-projects for kids with jobs. Currently, I am 16 years old, unemployed (Though if a band goes mainstream, or sometimes even if it doesn't, a band can be considered a job as long as you're getting paid) and in a starting-band and I gaurantee that all the shows that I do will cost something to get in. You have to pay to rent a place out (if you don't do a show in your basement or something), gas money, new equipment. Bands cost a lot of money, esspecially when on tour. To me, selling out is just going back on something you've said. Like if someone claims edge, then goes and smokes pot, that's selling out. If a hardcore band charges money for a show, that's not selling out, that's making a profit.
That's just my opinion though.

i can't remember if that makes you a whore or a sellout according to our learned friend.

[xgregx]

Originally posted by straightXed
i can't remember if that makes you a whore or a sellout according to our learned friend.

whore.

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

almost done with my dictionary


and it doesnt cost a lot to tour, im sitting here in a hotel loby typing this and weve only spent like 180 dollars and we have been on the road for three weeks

[xsecx]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
almost done with my dictionary


and it doesnt cost a lot to tour, im sitting here in a hotel loby typing this and weve only spent like 180 dollars and we have been on the road for three weeks

complete and utter bullshit.

[xgregx]

Originally posted by xsecx
complete and utter bullshit.

they could be doing sexual favors.

[xsecx]

Originally posted by xshadowsfallx
they could be doing sexual favors.

they'd have to be. $180 wouldn't even cover gas costs let alone food and hotels.

[straightXed]

Originally posted by xsecx
they'd have to be. $180 wouldn't even cover gas costs let alone food and hotels. hotels are for whores.

[xsecx]

Originally posted by straightXed
hotels are for whores.

well thank god his dictionary is almost done. that way we'll be able to know what's a whore and what's a sellout and what's a bisexual.

[xgregx]

Originally posted by xsecx
well thank god his dictionary is almost done. that way we'll be able to know what's a whore and what's a sellout and what's a bisexual.

hahaha

[hXc_sXe_sxm]

we dont pay for gas or food, we have stayed in some hotel rooms and that cost $180

[straightXed]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
we dont pay for gas or food, we have stayed in some hotel rooms and that cost $180

i'm going to regret asking but why don't you pay for gas or food?

[xgregx]

Originally posted by straightXed
i'm going to regret asking but why don't you pay for gas or food?

they are anorexic...just like davey havok!

[straightXed]

Originally posted by xshadowsfallx
they are anorexic...just like davey havok!

and the gas?

[xsecx]

Originally posted by hXc_sXe_sxm
we dont pay for gas or food, we have stayed in some hotel rooms and that cost $180

so you're not an actual touring band then.

[xsecx]

Originally posted by straightXed
and the gas?

because they use a raft made completely out of womens pants.

[straightXed]

Originally posted by xsecx
because they use a raft made completely out of womens pants.

Does it mean i have issues with my sexuality because i laughed at that?

[xsecx]

Originally posted by straightXed
Does it mean i have issues with my sexuality because i laughed at that?

it must do, but just be careful not to laugh too much or you'll turn into a whore.

[straightXed]

Originally posted by xsecx
it must do, but just be careful not to laugh too much or you'll turn into a whore.

i won't be a whore because i don't pay for food or gas, i'm a sellout, the dictionary says so.